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A priest once said to me that God set us standards He knew we could not meet in this life, but added that the purpose of this was twofold: to show us what we should try to be; and to induce the humility which comes with failure. It was from the same source I first learnt about theosis and the idea that the Christian life is one of gradually being conformed to God, and that the sacraments are a crucial part of the process, and a real help to us on the journey; indeed, he it was who first opened my eyes to the reality that the Christian life was a journey, and that rather than think of it in terms of a court-like judgment at the last, I would be better off thinking of everyday in terms of where I was going, where I had come from, and what I had done to be a little closer to God.
It was not that, as a child, I had not listened to what was being preached, or had not read my Bible; being a naturally obedient child, I had done as I was told – and then some. But the plain low-Church style of worship in my home parish in south-west Wales failed to kindle any warmth in me; which may have been why I often felt left out when people used to talk about being ‘saved’.
It was only when I went to college and experienced, for the first time, an Anglican High Mass that something suddenly ‘clicked’. Where, for Bosco, the idea of candles, incense and statues are things of horror and marks of the beast, for me, along with beautiful music, they transport me to where I need to be spiritually. I had prayed the Rosary for years by then, but it had always been alone; the Monday lunch-time sessions with other people were a revelation; there was such a good spirit in the room when we prayed together; it opened my eyes to the reality of communal prayer.
I had friends who were more Bosco-like in their reaction, and it was odd then, as now, that whilst I could respect their approach, they found it hard to take mine. It was then that I realised that the Lord comes to us where we are, He finds us as we are, and He speaks to us in ways which we will find useful. I had listened to about 14 years worth of sermons by the time I got to university, and I had a good knowledge of the Bible – but a longing for a closeness to Jesus that was unfulfilled however much I prayed. But the first time I attended a High Mass I knew who was there at the Eucharist – I had always known, but somehow it was, and has remained, different.
It was, and perhaps is, a defect that I need these things, but I do, and through the Church God has provided me with them – as He did the Bible via the same medium. For me, the Bible remains crucial, but thanks to the Mother of God and to His Church, I can enter more fully into the life of a Christian in a way I need. Our God is a Great God 🙂
All Along the Watchtower 
“to induce the humility which comes with failure.” In psychology or at least in what I do there is an expression, ” How is it possible to be wrong/failure and learn.” So in spiritual failure there is humility and hopefully learning of what not to do again and what to improve.
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BTW, good shootin’, David. 🙂
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Thanks, it was a lot of fun for about a buck and half.
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And that, in a nutshell is why there are many Catholics that long for the extraordinary form of Mass. The beauty and the reverence are gone and no longer help shepherd our minds, hearts and souls to where they properly belong. Lord have mercy on incompetent liturgist that tore the heart out of the Mass! Thank you for your reflection here, my friend. 🙂
“Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.” That about sums up my view of the Novus Ordos that I have attended.
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As you know, dear friend, this is one of my problems. It may be wrong and superficial (though I don’t think so) to want my high Mass, my incense, my Eucharistic adoration and Marian veneration – but I do, and I don’t want some horrid concrete church which looks like a garage.
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You are not wrong my friend. Do you take a flawless diamond and ensconce it in plastic? It seems to me the fitting for the stone or the pearl is the most precious thing we can fashion for it – gold is surely better than plastic.
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to want my high Mass, my incense, my Eucharistic adoration and Marian veneration – but I do,
I want my graven images, my golden Baal symbols, my Diana, oops, i mean Mary worship, my smoke, my costume holy men. Oh yes, everything for the eyes, nothing for my soul, that is here today and gone tomorrow. like the grass
All the while Jesus stands at the door and knocks
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Which is what you miss, Bosco. Do you have any aesthetic sense at all? Does listening to Bach not elevate you? You’ve been told that these things are not what you have been fooled into believing. My point is that all of these things help me and bring me closer – but you seem insistent Jesus only does it your way. The good news is that Jesus comes to each of us as we need him 🙂 Jess
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Bosco those that attend Mass Or Divine Liturgy are not worshiping the decorations, we are worshiping God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the only One that is allowed to be worshiped. The Traditions that we follow were taught by the Apostles and those in succession to the Apostles, who Christ put in charge of His Church which the gates of hell will not withstand. Those who faithfully obey the doctrines and traditions taught to them by those given authority by the Church are followers of Christ. ya read the bible, then tell me what ya think Christ means in Matt.23:2-3.
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I like Bach. I even play him on the pipe organ and piano.
I dont haVE A WAY. Its not MY way.The NT was written befor i was born. I just quote it. Thats the problem.Satan comes along and steals the seed. He whispers in peoples ears and says….dont do it. Thats Boscos way, …do it the way you want. As long as you dont open the door to Jesus, youll be fine with your statues and smoke and golden trinkets.
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Does he not elevate your spirit Bosco? Does it not raise you up? Well, the same happens to me in Church.
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Its a war out there. A blood and gut spilling war for our bodies and souls.Those who die their own way live in the lake of fire in their bodies. Its no joke. Its not a spirit world. Its a physical place. People will be there forever. I dont have time to sit and be elevated. The Devil roams the street like a Lion. Hes not interested in how elevated one is. Hes an equal opportunity killer.Its time to repent and be ye saved.
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I repented long ago, and do so now, too.
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2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Jesus told his disciples to do as the religious men said. because they were the police of the people. He went on to say, dont do as they do. They saddle men with burdens, like scaring little children by having to learn some catechism and them expect to take a test. You have to pass the test little kiddies or god doesnt want you in his church. The he saddles the kiddies with an extra burden….to miss mass is a mortal sin.Better come to mass little kiddies, or you wind up in hell. Now, as the faithful get older, they are saddled with 7 sacraments to do in order to get salvation. Then they have to DO penance. DOs DONTs. Little kiddies, leave Jesus alone. hes busy. Always pray to this virgin queen of heaven, oh, and go bow befor her statue over there while you pray to her. The statue is really her. It cries and moves and talks, she even goes and gets a cup of coffee once in awhile.
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I hesitated giving you that verse because I knew you would go into His warnings against the Pharisees and you would turn it into an attack on the priesthood and the Traditions. Have you ever considered the words used in the rosary, they mostly come from the first chapter of Luke. Icons are respected inspired pictures that commemorate the saints and scenes from Scripture and are not worshiped, yet highly respected. As for confession James 5:16 tells us to do this and why.
Matt. 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
I believe that this verse applies to every gathering of those that believe in my Lord Jesus Christ, whether protestant or Catholic. I believe that to disrespect the beliefs of others ain’t Christian, that proclaiming the Gospel does not mean to disrespect the way others worship God. Proclaiming the Gospel is calling folks to be healed, not to hurt and ridicule them for being sinners,especially when I am the worst sinner saved only by the Grace of God.
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You couldn’t be missing the point by a wider margin, Bosco. Most priests where I live don’t want the sort of liturgical services which feed me most. I seek them out because I want them! because they are where Gid speaks most clearly to me. You seem to have little, if any, sense of aesthetic beauty, which saddens me, Bosco. Beauty is of The Lord, and I like to worship Him in the beauty of holiness.
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being conformed to God,
Like this concept. Kinda like Eastern religion “get into harmony with”.
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Yes, that’s right Carl 🙂 x
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The unsaved have all kinds of weird ideas about god.If one doesnt know him, how can one conform themselfs to him?
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Today’s gospel speaks of the journey towards God in Mark 4: 26-34
“Jesus said to the crowds:
“This is how it is with the Kingdom of God;
it is as if a man were to scatter seed on the land
and would sleep and rise night and day
and the seed would sprout and grow,
he knows not how.
Of its own accord the land yields fruit,
first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.
And when the grain is ripe, he wields the sickle at once,
for the harvest has come.”
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Richard Foster tells us that the disciplines ( and he covers 12 classic disciplines of the Christian faith in his book THE CELEBRATION OF DISCIPLINE) have no power to conform us to the image of Christ in and of themselves. They are merely doorways through which the Spirit of God comes to do the conforming. we are responsible to open the door. The Spirit is responsible to come through the door of our open hearts in order to justify, sanctify and ultimately glorify.
It has been my experience that each person must come to address the disciplines in a singular fashion that awakes them and turns them from dry religious activity into relational conduits.
It has always amazed me that God works with each of us uniquely to awake our hearts to the reality of His transcendence; So it is you get “saved” at a high mass in the Anglican church; I get “saved” by walking the aisle to an old-fashioned altar call in a Pentecostal church after watching a movie about the End-times; And another man gets “saved” as he rides on train from work to home while reading a book.
God is as unlimited in His application of the cross to our lives as He was unlimited in His application of creative power over a water covered lump of clay in a dead universe.
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Don’t keep us in suspense. What are the 12 classic disciplines?
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Next to the Bible Foster’s the Celebration of Discipline is one of my favorite reads. The 12 disciplines according to Foster are:
1. The inward disciplines
Meditation
Prayer
Fasting
Study
2. The outward disciplines (inward realities resulting in outward lifestyles)
Simplicity
Solitude
Submission
Service
3. The corporate disciplines
Confession
Worship
Guidance
Celebration
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I thank you for that Joseph and it is a very good set of advisable disciplines indeed. It struck me, in reading these that in some manner every one of these is encompassed and found within the Traditional Catholic Mass. For instance:
Fasting: we were to fast from midnight before Mass until the end of Mass.
Confession: we were required to go to confession often to make ourselves fit for reception of the Eucharist.
Guidance: if we had a very good confessor we got not only absolution from our sins but also spiritual as well as practical advice to help us in our pilgrimage.
Prayer: we had time for both interior, personal prayer as well as community prayer during Mass.
Study: we heard the Word of God preached and then explained or taught in ways that open us to . . .
Meditation: which we were given time to silently go over the lesson as delivered.
Worship: supplied by the reception of the Eucharist and the Presence of the Living God among us at the unbloody sacrifice of our Lord for all our sins. It is a time for us to thank God for forgiving us our sins and contemplating is Love for us.
Solitude: a great ‘silence’ was enforced after the reception of the Eucharist so that we could commune with our Lord in solitude and silence.
Submission: the credo and the aforementioned preparations for Mass put us in the mental state of obedience to Christ and His Church.
Simplicity: this was embodied in the predictable and repeatable Liturgy that all were quite familiar with. It was like riding a bike: you never forgot how to be ‘little’ before the Lord.
Celebration: in songs of praise and the in grateful thanksgiving we celebrated the saving Act of God and the infusion of the Holy Spirit within the Church and into our individual souls.
Service: we need Mass with the words: ite miss est or “go, you are sent.” Words that admonish each parishioner to carry into the world in act and deed that which Christ has given us in the Mass.
So these disciplines seem to permeate our greatest act and prayer of the Church. All aspects are utilized and surely most people were edified by the experience
Again, thank you for this Joseph as I totally agree that these are important facets to spiritual advancement.
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And so it is they are classic Christian disciplines. Every denomination or stream has needed to intentionally address these disciplines in one way or another.
While we do not use a liturgy in our stream of Christianity we have built the disciplines into the life cycle of the church in other ways.
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A wise practice, Joseph as they are each very important to the spiritual life. 🙂
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I love that, Joseph – yes, and yes again 🙂 x
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candles, incense and statues are things of horror and marks of the beast, for me, along with beautiful music, they transport me to where I need to be
The good news is…Jesus will reach down and pick you up out of the mud. You have only to ask.
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Bosco, have you read Kierkegaard? You should. You would like him a great deal, I think. Kierkegaard didn’t like the talk of “proof” and “rationality.” There is simply, to use his most famous phrase, the leap of faith, across the borders of rationality and thinking to the passion-filled life of old-fashioned Christian fear and awe of God. In fact, he thought the doctrines of Christianity were absurd, but it was the very absurdity of these beliefs that made the passion of Christianity possible. After all, if it were simply a matter of accepting some proposition, why should we feel anything?
For K, Christianity, was suffering, and for those who tried to minimize this suffering with professional “understanding” and knowledge, K had little use but sarcasm: “The two ways. One is to suffer; the other is to become a professor of the fact that another suffered.”
Have I whet your appetite?
God bless
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Good brother pancake, sounds good. But one thing you have to know about me….i waste alot of time already. I never read works on christianity by men. I met Jesus and know him. What do i need men for?
Have you noticed how the use of graven images is defended to the death in here? Do you have any books for them to read?
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Lol, a very Kierkegaardian response.
Bosco, I think we all have to find the meaning of the Cross for ourselves, as Luther did. There is no Christianity, there are only Christianities.
God bless
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Good brother, you seem to be headed in the right direction. You would make a wonderful soldier for Christ.
I have heard of kirkeergard , and its been positive. But i waste enough time with math and chess and music study.
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Thank you, Bosco. That is very kind, although I like to think of myself *as* a soldier of Christ.
A math man. Good man.
God bless
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Good brother Pancake, have you met Jesus? Do you know him personally? If not, you can meet him Open the door and invite him in.
Im learning calculus and other advanced math so i can understand nuclear physics better. I avoided advanced math in college and now im paying for it.
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Bosco, I have reached out to the Infinite. I discovered that God is nearer to me than my jugular vein.
Math is a remarkable subject. One is never too old to learn it 🙂
God bless
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“I can enter more fully into the life of a Christian in a way I need.”
Yes, Jess, I think this is it.
God bless
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Thank you – I hope Bosco will understand what you are saying 🙂 xx
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You’re welcome. I hope so too.
God bless
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Btw, did you think my response (responses?) to Geoffrey was at all satisfactory? 🙂
God bless
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Yes, I did, and I enjoyed his response, too 🙂 xx
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Good sister, i dont know what good brother Pancake is getting at. All hes said to me is to read something by some guy. But, i like the way he thinks. I think.
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Hey, good brother Chalcedon has invited me to join the catholic church. Do you think i should join it?
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As I read it, he was asking you to find out what it really believes- wouldn’t be a bad idea, surely? It might stop you thinking that things which aren’t true, are – as an educator, I see he believes in educating us all 🙂
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“to induce the humility which comes with failure”
Jessica, I think that if “we” could see such purpose in failure… that God uses it such a way, I think that the shame which pummels us (and which Satan uses to pummel us) would be greatly reduced.
I don’t know about you and the brothers there in the UK, but on this side of the pond, it seems that fear of failure is so ingrained in our Christianity, that shame, which drags us down, more than humility which can help us move forward and toward home, (i.e. the Prodigal Son) is the common modus operandi.
A wonderful post.
Oh and south-western Wales (and low church as well)? Dare I say Baptist with great love and respect? Both are part of my ancestry!
Blessings!
Jim
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