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We have had much discussion here lately about the tensions between the ideas of God as Love and eternal damnation. It has been a good, well-mannered discussion which I hope has helped those of us reading it; it has helped me. Disagreement is a fact of Christian (as of other) life, and how we express that disagreement is a matter of great importance. How we disagree is also a witness to the faith that is within us.
With that in mind, and after biting my tongue and bridling my internet pen for a day of so, I want simply to say that the statement recently issued by the Anglican primate of Nigeria on “gays” is one of the most digraceful and shameful I have read from a Christian leader. Lest you think this is Jess getting all hyperbolic, let me quote:
A Gay is a Gay, they cannot be rightly described otherwise. In the same vein, we cannot describe people as ‘Christian Murderer’, ‘Christian Adulterer’ and ‘Christian terrorist’; neither should we even have ‘Gay Christian’ or ‘Gay Anglican’. “Without Holiness, no man shall see God” (Hebrews 12 :14).
It might be that the Archbishop might ponder that quotation from Hebrews next time he looks into a mirror. To imply that to be “gay” is to be in the same category as a murderer or a terrorist is simply disgraceful. But, in case that does not quite insult “gays” (really, does anyone still use that language?), he gets his JCB digger and goes deeper:
The deadly ‘virus’ of homosexuality has infiltrated ACNA. This is likened to a Yeast that should be urgently and radically expunged and excised lest it affects the whole dough (Luke 13:20-21; Gal. 5:9).
I make bread every third day at the moment, or did before I got ill again, and it maybe this is a woman/man thing, but I am charitably assuming that the Archbishop does not know that without yeast bread will not rise? But, how DARE the man liken other human beings to a “virus”! Chalcedon, historian that he is, always warns against likening anything to the unique evil of the Nazis, but here the parallel is striking:
“Today,” Hitler proclaimed in 1943, “international Jewry is the ferment of decomposition of peoples and states, just as it was in antiquity. It will remain that way as long as peoples do not find the strength to get rid of the virus.” Both the death camps (the gas chambers of which were modeled on delousing chambers) and the Einsatzgruppen (paramilitary death squads that roamed across Eastern Europe followed in the wake of the advancing German army) were responses to what the Nazis perceived to be a lethal pestilence.
‘Less Than Human’: The Psychology Of Cruelty
Given the recent history of ISIS-inspired atrocities against Christians in Nigeria, one might have expected better of the Archbishop. When you live in a gunpowder arsenal, lighting naked matches seems, to put it mildly, unwise.
Same-sex attraction, same-sex marriages, sexuality in general remain hot issues in the Church, despite Our Lord saying rather little about them, and it is understandable that they do, but however strongly one feels, I cannot for the life of me see the justification for writing about other human beings in such terms. The “gays” love someone of their own gender, that is neither “murder” nor is it “terrorism”, and quite often it isn’t “adultery” either. We can, and do, disagree, but this is a prime example of how not to do it. Is anyone going to feel as though this sort of thing is going to change anyone’s mind? Of course not, it is a power-play, designed to say “I am in charge and this is how it ought to be”.
I will pray for the Archbishop as I am told to pray for those who “hate”, but more than that, I shall pray for all those whose “crime” is to love someone of their own gender. When an Archbishop equates love with crime in inflammable and hateful language, one does not have to enquire about the form of witness given. One can only pray for him and those who think that way – and pray for comfort for faithful Christians wounded by such words.
There have been calls for Archbishop Justin to disinvite the Archbishop from the Lambeth conference. That would be a bad way of responding. He should come, and should be open to a dialogue where he can explain how he thought he was helping the Church, and perhaps listen to those who think he was shooting himself in both feet.
All Along the Watchtower 
That does seem to have been a rather unhelpful way of expressing his opinion. I’m not sure I am particularly qualified to comment, however. I note that Christ and the Apostles could use very stern language when they wanted to (although we might say that these comments over-step the limits of stern language). The problem is that the clergyman has quoted from Scripture. We cannot deny that some of the words he uses come from Scripture, but we can perhaps ask whether he has used them out of context and stitched them together in an infelicitous manner. As you say, the best approach is to cast bread or oil on the waters…but that does not work if one of the parties considers that anything resembling compromise is a betrayal of his beliefs. St Paul told us to live in peace to the extent it depends on us – well some things don’t depend on us.
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Oh Nicholas! Comparing love to murder is not “unhelpful” it is vicious and nasty. What does one do with a virus? One exterminates it.
The interpretation of the words from
Scripture is now a contested field of scholarship, and to treat those passages as though they have an uncontested meaning is unhelpful.
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Jessica – just to pick up on your use of the word `love’ in your reply to Nicolas.
I don’t know what the `archbishop’ was on about – but in the context of the discussion of a Christian view of homosexuality, it is usually carnal activities that are objected to and not just two boys who like each other very much (or two girls who like each other very much).
There are laws against paedophilia, rape and many other nasties, precisely because carnal activities outside a proper context are extremely damaging.
If you equate `love’ with `carnal activity’ in some sense, then I suggest you spend the afternoon listening to Frank Zappa’s piece `Joe’s Garage’. The main protagonist has problems with carnal activities, which reach a climax with the song `Why does it hurt when I pee?’
This song has become the great anti-vaxxer anthem, because of the next line `I don’t want no doctor to stick no needle in me’.
One thing that I do dislike about this is the way the word `gay’, which used to be a nice word, has been appropriated in a different context. It is used (properly) in one of the episodes of `The Herbs’ (Parsley’s Birthday Party) which my son enjoys and also in Chigley (another programme which my 5 year old son enjoys) in Mr Rumpling’s song (he operates the barge that takes things to Treddle’s Wharf).
I would have preferred it if they had appropriated a different word and I’m disappointed in the way that language has changed over the last 50 years.
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Jock, outside of a circle of those with Victorian attitudes, few people equate homosexual sexual activities with rape of paedophilia. I know you don’t mean to be offensive, but it is.
The word homosexual was unknown in antiquity, and scholars are having some interesting discussions about what Paul meant. Jesus of course says nothing about lesbians. Do you suppose that like Queen Victorian, he’d never heard of lesbian sex and no one could bear to tell him? Or was he just more interested in people as people and not fixated on what they did with their genitalia?
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JessicaHoff – ah ha – that is clarifying – you *are* defending carnal activities for purely recreational purposes. Well, good luck with that …….
You’re the one who seems obsessed with the subject – digging out something that some unknown Nigerian bishop – who enjoys dressing up in effeminate gear – has to say about it and then getting offended by it.
Jesus never once turned a blind eye to the seriousness of sin – the people whom he encountered whom he treated sympathetically were well aware of their sin and looking for salvation. The fact that Scripture does not record any encounters he had specifically with people engaged in this sort of activity is completely irrelevant.
I’m inclined to agree that the bishop’s way of phrasing things is repulsive, unhelpful, not very Christian, etc …..
The point about carnal activities is that *always*, outside the proper context it is damaging to the people who engage in them. It should be seen in this context.
I wasn’t equating homosexual sexual activities with rape and paedophilia (the first is, by definition, non-consensual. The second, even if it is consensual, it is understood that it is extremely damaging to an underage person even if they do agree to it), but they do have something very important in common; they are very harmful to the people who engage in them, even if it is between consenting people who are both of age – and a Christian approach to the matter has to take this into account.
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Yes I am doing just that. Is the marriage God approves that of the Catholic Church where there is no divorce? That seems to be what Jesus says. I hope you are lucky enough never to find yourself divorced, in that case. Is that the only proper context?
Reread what you wrote. If you were not implying equivalence, don’t use such examples.
Outside your hermitage the Nigerian Archbishop made the news here and in the USA as well as Nigeria. Maybe that counts as obscure to you, not so much to others.
If you can point out Jesus condemning recreational sex at all, it might help your flimsy case.
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Jessica – I don’t know what you mean by a `case’ – but now that I understand what you mean, I’m very sorry I said anything against this African bishop.
I don’t like the way he expressed things – and I don’t agree with his condemnation of sinners – it is very ugly, but what you are arguing for is even more ugly.
I find your `case’ – if you want to put it like that – utterly repulsive. You seem to equate `love’ with carnal activity.
You don’t seem to get the point that carnal activity, even between consenting people, is very damaging to the people who engage in it if it is not in its proper context. This is why (for example) school teachers who engage in affairs with teenagers tend to get put in jail for a very long time, even if the teenager consents and is quite enthusiastic about it.
It is pretty well understood that `carnal activity’ outside its proper context is selfishness and hate – and the opposite of love – and this goes for homosexual activity, even if both parties consent to it.
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I am not sure that I have expressed my case well if you suppose that I am arguing a case for a binary divide between carnal activity and love. I can only speak for me and those I know, but we do not dissociate the two. Not all sex needs to be for the purpose of procreation.
Again, you resort to a criminal activity – schoolteachers and pupils – to illustrate, well I am not quite sure what. Nothing I have written suggests I think such activity is correct.
What is the “proper context” for carnal activity in your view Jock? It can’t be the Catholic one as you are not a Catholic.
I am not sure that you are correct to dismiss all carnal activity that is not heterosexual as being “selfish” and “hate” – if this is your experience of it, well I’d recommend widening your circle. I would not argue that all carnal relations within marriage are free from being selfish – I speak as someone whose husband cheated on her. What I do not do is what you have been doing, which is to generalise from that, or to argue that because some husbands rape their wives, that is an argument in favour of my case.
As for the Bishop, I can’t understand why you regret saying something critical of a man of God uttering ugly and hate-filled words.
Personally, any Christian who likens other people to a “virus” disgraces himself, and those who tolerate such language might do well to follow up my links to other usage of such terms.
Each to their own, and if you think all carnal activity outside marriage is to be condemned, I wonder what you count as being “married”? My own Church recognises my second marriage, the RC’s would not. Who is right?
You take a very simple view Jock, and that may reflect your own lived experience, but those of us who have had to experience divorce, take a more nuanced view. You can call it ugly, I call it real life as lived by many of us.
I lack your experience to be able to say that all carnal activity outside its “proper context” is wrong, but as you are careful not to define what that context is, I may misunderstand you. You certainly misunderstand me.
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On review, those words do look particularly hurtful. I suppose I try to minimise things because, being generally conservative, I’m fed up with the suppression of free speech we have seen since Blair’s time in office. The current moves in Scotland are particularly worrying to me.
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… he also looks like a bit of a hypocrite. In the photograph you posted, he’s in a fancy dress costume that out-does Hinge and Bracket – and you’re trying to tell me that this guy is straight ?????
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Giggles ❤️
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