Presbyterians
27 Saturday Jun 2015
Posted Faith
in27 Saturday Jun 2015
Posted Faith
inJustice for Bishop George Bell of Chichester - Seeking Truth, Unity and Peace
Rediscovering the Middle Ground
a scrap book of words and pictures
reflections, links and stories.
reflecting my eclectic (and sometimes erratic) life
wondering, learning, exploring
Reflecting on sexuality and gender identity in the Church of England
Work and Prayer
Reflections, comment, explorations on faith, life, church, minstry & meaning.
Mental health & loss in the Church
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you ... John 13:34
ancient, medieval, byzantine, anglican
Miscellanies on Religion and Public life
Gender, Family and Religious History in the Modern Era
Faith, life and kick-ass moves
More beautiful than the honey locust tree are the words of the Lord - Mary Oliver
A blog pertaining to the future of the Church
Blue Labour meets Disraelite Tory meets High Church Socialist
Poems from life and the church year
Contmplations for beginners
The Catholic Faith Defended
To bring identity and power back to the voice of women
“Whatever you do, do it with your whole heart.” ( Colossians 3: 23 ) - The blog of Father Richard Peers SMMS, Director of Education for the Diocese of Liverpool
Journalism from London.
Mining the collective unconscious
“Love recognizes no barriers. It jumps hurdles, leaps fences, penetrates walls to arrive at its destination full of hope.” — Maya Angelou
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you ... John 13:34
“I come not from Heaven, but from Essex.”
Blessed be God forever.
A Monk on the Mission
“The harvest is abundant but the laborers are few" Luke 10:2
Blog for poet and singer-songwriter Malcolm Guite
James Bishop (PhD candidate) - Public Access to Scholarly Resources (and a few of my reflections...)
Reflections from the Dean of Southwark
Happy. Southern. Catholic.
"...a fellowship, within the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church..."
A daily blog to deepen our participation in Mass
legem credendi lex statuat supplicandi
"Not all those who wander are lost"- J.R.R. Tolkien
Pictures by Catherine Young
Hope isn't an emotion, but a daily choice.
ginnyfree said:
Hello Carl. I can’t help but noticing that the Creed you professed publicly states you believe in “one holy catholic church.” Um, so the question is, why aren’t you in a Catholic place when you say this and what exactly do you mean by it? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
The Protestant reformers understood themselves to be a part of “the holy catholic church.”Millions of Protestants still repeat these words every week as they stand in worship to recite the Apostles’ Creed.The word catholic was first used in this sense in the early second century when Ignatius of Antioch declared, “Where Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic church.”Jesus Christ is the head of the church, as well as its Lord. Protestant believers in the tradition of the Reformation understand the church to be the body of Christ extended throughout time as well as space, the whole company of God’s redeemed people through the ages.
Protestants, of course, do not equate “catholic” with “Roman Catholic.””catholic’ in the sense of the universal community of believers.
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newenglandsun said:
“Catholic” just means “universal”, not “Roman Catholic”. I don’t know why you think it always does mean that.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NEO. Gee, why do I think that? Simple, until the Protestant revolt, there was only one place to go on a Sunday and that was to Church, a Catholic Church. The Church was universal and still is. But some don’t see it that way. Christ only founded ONE Church and it is the Catholic Church. To profess that with one’s lips, but to never darken the doors of said Church is silliness. But only if you ask me and a few others around here. God said HE WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH. He kept HIs word. It isn’t a figment of one’s imagination or someplace that becomes visible only when two or three are gathered together as some say. Truly Christ dwells in us as He said He would even unto the consummation of the world, so when we do share together and pray together He is there, as He said, but He is ALSO in the Church He established and built and which He purchased at the price of His own precious blood. It is His labor for our benefit, so that all might be ONE IN HIM as He wills. It is a choice, then a place. But until the choice for Him is made, the place waits, like a Bridegroom for his Bride, until He comes again in glory to judge the living and the dead. Don’t keep Him waiting too long. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
I’m not NEO. I’m NES. The reformers contended, albeit with pride, that the Church corrupted the original faith. But there was the Orthodox Church at that time in the East that also considered itself the One True, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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ginnyfree said:
I’m so sorry NES. I think I’ve done this boo boo before. Oooops. As fro the Orthodox, well this nice fella I talk to sometimes wants every one to know he most certainly ISN’T a Catholic at all and is certain everyone knows of his Orthodoxy. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
That’s just one person who is Orthodox though. The Orthodox, incidentally, recite the Nicene creed where they consider themselves believers in One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
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ginnyfree said:
Yeah, I know NES. I have a Methodist friend who told me she uses the Apostle’s Creed each Sunday at Church and was very proud when her son was confirmed. It was hard for them to pull it off because she was undergoing a bitter divorce from the child’s father at the time. She was upset because the divorce and the fights were giving her little boy the opposite picture of what love should be and she used to bend my ear a bit over her pain and sorrow over it. Nothing like the pain in a mother’s heart for her children. But back to the subject. It wasn’t so much the words, but the meaning associated with them. It is one thing to say you believe in the Communion of the Saints, but actual meaning associated with those four words for us as Catholics is way different then they were for her. Her interpretation included praying to her grandmother for help with her little boy cause she was sure her grandmom made it to Heaven. For her she didn’t need a Catholic Church to tell her who was in Heaven and she was equally certain that Mary wasn’t Queen up there either. The more I talked to her, the more I understood that saying one believes and actually believing the right stuff aren’t always to assured. I like to ask what others mean by what they say. It enriches my understanding of persons and helps me grow. That’s really why I ask. Besides that, I came out of my mother’s womb asking questions and haven’t stopped yet. Thanks for putting up with me. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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chalcedon451 said:
Congratulations, Carl, to you and your father. We can, none of us, do more than go where we think he is calling us. Blessings to you both.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
Yes and we all should live in simple testimony never being the source of anyone’s misfortune and never passing up an opportunity to perform a charitable act. We model Christian behavior and that is a sign that the Holy Spirit guides us in the Light.
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chalcedon451 said:
We can, none of us, do more, and most of us not even that much 🙂
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NEO said:
Well said, and congratulations to you both, Carl.
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chalcedon451 said:
We can only move with what Grace us given us.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
Yes that is your tradition and if has brought you to and held you in the embrace of Christ(which is clearly revealed in your presentations here) that is wonderful. Blessings.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
Women in leadership:
Some readers may find it surprising to learn that a woman shortage blighted the ancient world, with about 130-140 men for every 100 women. This is so because many female infants were left to die of exposure and because of the mortal risks associated with pregnancy and childbirth. Yet both Christians and their critics observed a marked overrepresentation of women in the early churches, a fact the critics used to their advantage: “What respectable group caters to women?” Why, one wonders, did so many women find the churches appealing if women’s contributions were not valued?
The answer is, simply, that the early churches did value women’s contributions. Not only did women show their strength in numbers, they did so in leadership positions as well. Both Acts and the Pauline tradition refer to the missionary couple Priscilla and Aquila, with Priscilla’s name preceding her husband’s in four of six instances (Acts 18:18, 26; Romans 16:3; 2 Timothy 4:19). Since the husband’s name usually figures first in ancient pairings, this pattern suggests Prisca’s prominence. In Romans 16 Paul refers to women and men alike as partners in the gospel. The only named deacon in the New Testament is Phoebe, a patron of the movement — she seems to be Paul’s representative to the church in Rome (Romans 16:1-2). Paul also refers to Junia as an apostle, a fact most English translations covered up until 1989 (Romans 16:7). His letters refer to several other prominent women, including Euodia and Synthyche, who likely led the church in Philippi (Philippians 4:2) and Chloe, whose “people” maintained communication with Paul in his absence (1 Corinthians 1:11). And though the prophet John condemns her teachings, Revelation’s indictment of “Jezebel” (no way that was her real name) indicates the influence of a woman prophet in Thyatira (Revelation 2:20-24). Moreover, both Acts and Paul refer to women who hosted church gatherings in their homes (12:12; 16:40; Romans 16:3-5; 1 Corinthians 16:19; Philemon 1-2; see Colossians 4:15), a service that must have implied some level of status. *
*quote Huff Post Religion blog
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newenglandsun said:
Actually, the proper translation indicates that they are not to DOMINATE (lord over) men. Something which even our own ACA clergy are not allowed to do (and we don’t ordain women). There is no indication that a woman is not allowed to instruct a man in the faith as Priscilla clearly did. As Protestants typically understand ordination differently than Catholics, I personally find the Protestant insistence on getting women ordained to be a step in the clerical direction.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
“Nicene Creed”. It is the only authoritative ecumenical statement of the Christian faith accepted by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, and the major Protestant denominations.[16][17] (The Apostles’ and Athanasian creeds are not as widely accepted.)[18] ref WIKI
I see only one thing in the creed that would be unacceptable: ” I believe in one holy catholic church and apostolic church”. Actually no disagreement at all with catholic(small c) meaning universal church or as the body of Christ’s believers in all time.
Catholic (capital C) in not in the original creed. The RCC did not even refer to itself as the Catholic (capital c)Church until 1600. Prior to 1590’s- 1610 Catholics and its church fathers defined themselves as the Roman Church or Romanism. At the dates indicated the additional word Catholic(capital c) is added to identity now claiming exclusive use of the word “universal” to mean reference to Roman Catholic Church. So at that time the RCC capitalized the c in effort to discredit Protestantism’s claim that it is indeed apostolic . By making the word catholic to Catholic is merely a ruse to say it was so from the beginning. By the way the word catholic as used by Protestantism does not exclude non Protestants(Catholics) from being included in the congregation of Christ as opposed to the Catholic contention that Protestants are not of a true congregation of Christ. Buy calling all Christians Catholic from the beginning is a mere non historical accurate ruse to argue as true church and to legitimize its orthodoxy as “the” orthodoxy and all else is heretical . The Nicene creed is generic to all Christian denominations and original text of creed denotes catholic with a lower case c. The RCC does not own to word catholic.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
GINNY: It would be improper for the grieving friend to pray to her grandmother for intercession just as Protestants reject praying to those statues – pray to God only( SERVUS has well defined in past conversation and RCC defense of the practice so not to belabor here). Methodist and Protestantism would not find praying to deceased relatives legitimate or acceptable. Pray to God only. Beside the in inclusion of Paul and Disciples as saints (no others) Protestant thinking uses the phrase “Communion of Saints” to mean God’s Elect as anointed as God’s people.
None of us can discern who is in heaven, not even our Godly faithful because of that grace alone stuff. I start my day with a “hello Ma”, in reference to my mother who died in 2012. It is done in love not expecting anything magical.
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