I thought this might be of some interest since it shines a light on some other reasons for the Crisis in today’s Church. I would be particularly interested in the thoughts of Nicholas, Phillip and others about this (Bosco, excluded). This was found at http://www.fisheaters.com __ Scoop
30 Days: Father Amorth, the Italian translation of the new Ritual for Exorcists is finally ready.
Father Gabriel Amorth: Yes, it is ready. Last year the CEI didn’t want to approve it because it contained errors in the translation from Latin to Italian. And we exorcists, the ones who would have to use it, we took the opportunity to point out that, on a number of points, we were in disagreement with the New Ritual. But the underlying Latin text has remained the same in this revised translation. This long-awaited Ritual has turned into a farce. An incredible obstacle that is likely to prevent us acting against the demon.
30 Days: A heavy accusation. What is it that you are thinking of?
Fr. Amorth: I will give you but two examples. Two spectacular examples. Point 15 treats of evil spells and how one should behave when dealing with them. An evil spell is an evil brought about on a person by means of recourse to the devil. It can be accomplished under a variety of forms like spells, curses, the evil eye, voodoo and macumba. The Roman Ritual used to explain how one should confront it. The New Ritual on the other hand categorically declares that it is absolutely forbidden to perform exorcisms in such cases. Absurd. Evil spells are by far the most frequent causes of possessions and evil procured through the demon: at least 90% of cases. It is as good as telling exorcists they can no longer perform exorcisms. Then Point 16 solemnly declares that one should not carry out exorcisms if one is not certain of the presence of the devil. This is a masterstroke of incompetence: the certainty that the devil is present in someone can only be obtained by carrying out an exorcism. What is more, the authors of the Ritual failed to notice that on two points they were contradicting the Catechism of the Catholic Church. For this points out that exorcism should be practiced in cases of diabolical possession and in those of evil caused by the demon. And it also recommends that it be performed on people as well as on things. And in things, there is never the presence of the demon, there is only his influence.
The declarations contained in the New Ritual are very serious and very damaging. They are the fruit of ignorance and inexperience.
30 Days: But wasn’t the New Ritual put together by specialists?
Fr. Amorth: Not at all! During these last ten years, two commissions worked on the Ritual; one which was made up of cardinals and which was responsible for the Praenotanda, that is to say the initial provisions, and the other which was responsible for the prayers. I can affirm with certainty that none of the members of these commissions had ever performed an exorcism, had ever been present at an exorcism and ever possessed the slightest idea of what an exorcism is. Here lies the error, the original sin of this Ritual. Not one of those who collaborated on it was an exorcism specialist.
30 Days: How is that possible?
Fr. Amorth: It is not me you should be asking. At the Vatican II Ecumenical Council, each commission was aided by a group of experts who assisted the bishops in their work. And this custom was kept up after the Council, every time that parts of the Ritual were redrafted. But not this time. And yet, if there were ever a subject that demanded the participation of specialists, it was truly this.
30 Days: And yet?
Fr. Amorth: And yet we exorcists were never consulted. And what is more, any suggestions that we were able to make were unfavorably received by the commissions. It is a paradoxical history. Do you want me to tell you what happened?
30 Days: Of course.
Fr. Amorth: As Vatican Council II had requested, the various parts of the Roman Ritual were gradually revised. We exorcists were waiting for title 12 to be addressed, that is to say the Exorcism Ritual. But apparently this Ritual was not considered an important subject, for the years went by and nothing happened. Then, quite unexpectedly, on 4 June 1990, there was published a Ritual ad interim, that is a trial Ritual. This was a real surprise for us, as we had not been consulted beforehand. And yet we had prepared a whole series of requests in view of the Ritual’s revision. We were asking, among other things, that the prayers might be amended so that invocations to the Virgin, which were completely absent, might be incorporated, and that the number of prayers specifically relating to exorcism might be augmented. But we were not given the chance to make any kind of contribution. However, we were not discouraged: after all the text had been drawn up for us. And as in his letter of presentation, the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship at the time, Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, had asked the Episcopal Conferences to send in, over the following two years, “any advice and suggestions made by priests who would make use of it”, we got down to work. I brought together eighteen exorcists, chosen from among the most expert on the planet. We examined the text with great attention. We used it. We immediately commended the first part in which the evangelical foundations of exorcism were summarized. This part deals with the biblical and theological aspect of the question, and on this head no lack of competence was apparent. It is a new section not found in the Ritual of 1614, which was composed under Pope Paul V; besides, at that time, there was no need to recall these principles, since the whole world knew them and accepted them. Today, on the contrary, this is indispensable.
But when we came to examine the practical part that demands a specific knowledge of the subject, the total inexperience of the writers really showed through. We made numerous observations, article by article, and we sent these on to all interested parties: the Congregation for Divine Worship, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, end the Episcopal Conferences. One copy was handed directly to the Pope.
. . . read more here.
Good brother scoop, you really believe this stuff eh?
The Devil wont come out if you don’t say the right words. Uh Oh.
The Devil says;……..”Ha Haaaaa , you didn’t say all the correct words. Im not coming out.Ha Haaaaaaa”
(;-D
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Yes. I believe the Church has been exorcising demons since the time of Christ and that they have pooled their knowledge into a Rite (basically a manual) so that it will be preserved and passed on: sort of what the Gospels do, Bosco.
We know from the Gospels that some (most) are oppressed by demons and that a few are actually possessed by demons. The later ones are the hard one’s which Jesus said requires fasting and prayer. Some of those take a long time to get rid of . . . and it takes a very special person to have the faith and the courage to witness what these exorcists do in a diabolic possession. If you don’t believe it then you are not paying close enough attention to the Gospels themselves.
Obviously, you stopped reading here instead of going to the remainder of the interview.
Fr. Gabriele Amorth was perhaps the greatest exorcist of our lifetime and it is sad that he has now passed. There are few men who had his wisdom and holiness to face these demons without fear . . . and as he said, it was Satan that feared him.
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Im the first one to believe in demon possession. I just don’t attribute calling out demons to a mans knowledge or holiness as to why the demons would obey him.
“There are few men who had his wisdom and holiness to face these demons”
Every biblical account in the NT of healing is done in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Just a few words like, rise and walk. Peter didn’t say, ……in my wisdom and holiness, rise and walk. The devils in the cave dweller asked for leniency. Jesus said…….Go. No rote speech,no classes to take on what to say. Just command them to come out. …in Jesus name. But not to be pig headed, im sure there have been a time or two when a catholic priests had a real tussle with a demon. I know Jesus personally and i know enough not to put him in a box. I also know demon removal can be done by any saved person. Not that all saved have that kind of faith. Maybe one that I personally know. Its the sufferer that can accept that Jesus can heal them if the exorcists isn’t born again. I know of people that got saved going to Benny Hinn revivals. Hes the biggest bandit in America and wouldn’t know god from a hole in the ground. But he talks the words of scripture. Its not Hinn but god who dwells in his Words.
You catholics believe its the power invested in them man that does things. To the saved, there is only the Lord. We know of nobody else.
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When you have the faith in its fullness as Peter and the Apostles had then you can toot your horn. When was the last time you performed an exorcism Bosco? If you came upon a possessed person would you know it and do you really believe that you have the ability to free that poor soul from demonic possession? If so you are far more proud than even I thought. Demons aren’t for the faint of heart or the weak in faith.
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Good brother scoop, you are more wack than i thought.
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Isn’t the rite of blessing Holy Water done differently now? The rite of Baptism with the holy water was an actual rite of exorcism from my understanding? Now, there’s no blessing of the salt and most isn’t blessed with it?
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Exactly. They have all been dumbed down. I’m sure Fr. Amorth would have agreed that blessed salt was an important part of protection for living spaces etc. We used to salt the earth with blessed salt quite a bit. I doubt a modern priest would know anything about that.
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No wonder you cathols dont believe my report. You got all this wierdo stuff you fall for. Amazing.
I used to believe Hendrix and Zepplin and Johnny Winter and Clapton. Im no better than you guys.
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I have a Johnny Winter story. My sister had a ticket forJohnny Winter because her friend couldn’t go. My older sister. I asked if I could go. I was aquainted with Winter because my sister gave me his alblum for xmas. It was at the Olympic Auditorium in LA. I was picked up first and we looked for my sister. Mymother said she had a surprise for me. After a bad joke she finally gave it to me. She had Johnny Witners autograph to me. I said this was impossible. How in the fak could she get johnnys autograph. When they droped us off at the concert, they went to a party at the century Plaza hotel for a friend of my father who was a doctor and all his friends were MDs. Back track. I was sick one day and that day a friend was bringing a alblum to sellme ofJohnny Winter. So I told my mother to go to my school and give the guy the 2 dollars and get the record. She did as I told her and Johnnys face was on the cover. Hes an albino with long white hair. Plus in my room his album was usually on the top of the stack so when she came in she would see it. So, after dropping us off to see Johnny Winter, they went to the Century Plaza hotel, got off on the 13th floor and walked down thehall towards the party. 3 guys came out a room and came towards them. She saw that one of them was JJohnny Winter because there was no mistaking that face. She stopped them and asked why are they here when she dropped off her two kids to see them awhile ago. Johnny said that Frank Zappa was the warm up band and they didn’t have to be there right away. So my mom got Johnnys autograph for me.
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I see where those in the Vatican are saying Vigano is mentally ill…
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There is a lot to think about in this interview. It should also be noted that it was given in 2000, which could have an effect on some statements. Naturally, I believe in the existence of a personal Devil and in various spiritual ranks, including the rank of demon (or little demon in some cases) – though this term can mean a number of things in Scripture, depending on the language. Unlike many Christians who accept post millennialism or amillennialism, I affirm that the Devil is not bound and as such is free to deceive the nations. The bible tells us in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the Man of Sin will be empowered to deceive the unbelievers by means of lying signs and wonders – what we would call miracles. The Book of Revelation also tells us that demons come from the mouths of the Devil, the Beast, and the False Prophet to summon the kings of the earth to war against Christ when Christ returns.
Protestants also cast out demons, as Fr Amorth stated, though usually not in a particularly ritualistic manner. There are different schools of thought on how this should be done: while some tend to shout at the demon, employing the name of Jesus, a more recent school of thought suggests that this is usually not the right thing to do because it can make the person who has the demon passive. What is required, they assert, is that the afflicted person makes an act of will to recognise the authority of Christ over the demon, concluding that they do not have to live with it (repentance may be appropriate, depending on the circumstances). These practitioners conduct sessions that are generally rather sedate, instilling calm.
It should also be noted that people tend to use the word “possessed” the wrong way round in popular culture. They speak as if the demon had the human, but the bible says that the human has the demon. This is an important distinction. To be sure, the demon is oppressing the human – but that does not mean that he has some unbreakable hold – the authority and power of Christ can break the relationship between a demon and a human. Words matter.
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As an aside, it may be useful to know what Second Temple Judaism and early Christianity generally thought was the origin of unclean spirits. The common view was that they were the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of the Sons of God and human women, as mentioned in Genesis 6 and elsewhere in the Old Testament. The Jews and early Christians believed that the fallen Sons of God (“Watchers”) were imprisoned in Tartarus/Abyss around the time of the Flood (see 2 Peter and Revelation). Their children, the Nephilim, however, were not imprisoned. They lost their bodies in the Flood, but their spirits were left free to roam the earth until a later judgment (post-Flood Nephilim were destroyed by humans such as the Israelites and Edomites). Thus, the desire they have to dwell in human bodies as mentioned by Christ in the Gospels is understood as the desire to return to their former bodies, to have flesh once more. In 1 Enoch and other literature, they are referred to as “bastards” because it was not legitimate for the Sons of God to mate with human women – the hybrid spirits of the Nephilim were thus not part of the plan of God for the cosmos.
This outline should be distinguished from the shedim-demons and other references to dark powers found in the bible, described as objects of worship in pagan and apostate religion. While the Nephilim spirits may have been involved here as messengers and as objects of worship, the general narrative of the biblical authors is of spirits created by God such as the Sons of God – and possibly lower orders – falling from their divine commissions and seeking the worship of men, when only God the Creator is worthy of worship. The essential OT texts for this motif are: Genesis 11 (the Tower of Babel), Deuteronomy 32:8 (LXX, not MT), and Psalm 82. These texts combined tell us that God assigned rulership of the Gentiles to the Sons of God – this did not entail, however, that the Sons of God were entitled by virtue of their position to the kind of worship accorded to the Creator. The coming of Christ ended the legitimate rulership of these spirits over the Gentiles (already conceptually judged on account of their wickedness). Gentiles are now free to come out from the rule of the Sons of God, provided that they come under the rule of Christ in their place. This is the idea of crossing kingdoms described by Paul: “He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son” (Colossians 1:13). While some Christians believe that these spirits have already been condemned and imprisoned/destroyed, the NT does not explicitly state this. It merely states that Christ humiliated them and set forth His own Kingdom through the Cross. It seems more sensible to assume that these spirits are still at large, presumably in some kind of alliance with Satan, and will be judged formally in God’s court at the Parousia or the Great White Throne Judgment on the other side of the Millennium.
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Regarding specific claims unique to Catholicism, I would say that my ability to comment is limited by availability of facts. It is concerning, if true, that many bishops and exorcists should send people requesting exorcism to psychiatrists without following proper diagnostic tests and holding exploratory interviews with allegedly-demonised persons. This is concerning for a number of reasons, some mentioned in the interview itself.
A) It suggests that the bishop may have heterodox theology and/or praxis regarding the Devil, demons, spiritual warfare, and salvation. Where such premature rejection occurs repeatedly, this will lead to rumours, which could undermine the clergyman’s standing in his zone of office.
B) Sending people to psychiatrists should be approached with caution at the best of times. Psychiatry, as opposed to neurology, has received a lot of opprobrium from people within and outside of the scientific community. Secondly, where a client is a Christian and the psychiatrist is not, even taking account of high standards of professionalism, it would be difficult, and possibly inappropriate, for the psychiatrist to handle the client’s spiritual concerns. Where the client has no other positive spiritual support, going to a psychiatrist may produce frustration rather than recovery.
C) For the sake of argument, let us assume that true Christians cannot be demonised, owing to the presence of the Holy Spirit barring the “house” from evil occupiers. One cannot guarantee that every person seeking exorcism is a true Christian and thus in no need of this service. Where a non-Christian is involved, there may be genuine demonization. To send such a person away untreated is at best negligence, at worst oppression.
D) Even in cases where no demonization of the client is involved, it may be appropriate to conduct a broader spiritual survey of the person and his background (subject to his consent). This may be an opportunity to share the Gospel with a non-believer or to bring to a repentance someone who has lapsed. Furthermore, there may be a demonic influence in the background – someone in the client’s circle of family, friends, and acquaintances who is demonized or involved with dark spiritual forces.
E) The concept of demons should not be rejected out of hand. Science involves the inference of invisible causes and entities behind observable phenomena. The same philosophical methodology could be applied to discernible effects of the invisible demon. A bona fide case of levitation involving someone exhibiting mental distress and blasphemous utterances should be good prima facie evidence for inferring the existence and presence of a demon. There is no good philosophical reason why demons should not exist. The fact that one has never seen a demon does not entail that there is no such being as a demon.
F) Regarding the allegation that demons have infiltrate the Vatican and that demonic influence has corrupted Catholic doctrine and praxis. more evidence is probably required to substantiate such a claim – but nor should such a claim be rejected out of hand. To the extent that Catholicism is a religion, it follows that wickedness inside Catholicism could have a spiritual cause.
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Two specific comments caught my eye (more as well):
“His strategy is always along the same lines. I have told him this and he admits it.. He makes people believe that hell does not exist, that sin does not exist, and that he is nothing but one more experience to try out. Concupiscence, success and power are the three great passions on which Satan relies.”
“One can be subjected to the attacks of the demon in four cases. Either because it constitutes a blessing for the person and such is the case with many of the saints, or because of irreversible persistence in sin, or because one is the victim of a curse uttered in the name of the demon, or else when one gives oneself up to practices of occultism.”
As I survey what is coming out at the moment concupiscence, success and power are the passions that these Bishops and Cardinals seem to be swimming in. Also persistence in sin and the report of some demonic (occultism) that has been noted in a few cases leads one to think that satan is hard at work on these men. Theologically, many of our bishops and priests no longer believe in hell or in satan . . . which to them is like a fairy tale. Even our pope running around speaking of the ‘annihilation’ of souls comes to mind. Is this not outright heresy for a Christian? Many don’t believe in Adam and Eve which makes a mockery of the idea of Original Sin which, in turn, makes Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross a sham.
So even in the year 2000 Amorth saw what was driving the corruption of faith, the corruption of doctrines and liturgical rites and the works of satan being done in the name of ‘updating’ and ‘revising’ older practices. I find it quite interesting.
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That is very concerning. There is too much heresy about on fundamental doctrines if so many of the powerful do not believe in Hell, sin, Satan, or demons. Not acceptable. They should be defrocked.
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Agreed. I think it is an underlying cause of this diabolical attack among our clergy at the moment. Gotta clean house or it will continue.
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Judgment is coming, particularly on Italy where the rot is extreme. Clean house, or have the Lampstand removed.
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Oh, the house will be cleaned but at what cost and who is going to do it: themselves (unlikely), the laity (too worldly), the courts (at least for criminality), the hand of God (most likely and probably more severely and more painfully than the others). At least that is how I see it. I think we are living at a juncture in Church history that is likely to shake the foundations of the world both in Christianity and in the secular realm; the cusp of a great upheaval and a cleaning of the Temple. The money changers had it easy compared to what is about to be unleashed.
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Yes, I’m afraid it will have to be God, acting through the courts and other means. The top-down structure of Catholicism means it must be this way – I see now way the laity can force the hierarchy to step down, so your options are: get out or abide the judgment. There will also be a problem in the aftermath – if there are enough righteous people left in positions of power, they will have to find a way of rebuilding and ensuring that this problem does not repeat itself.
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Well, it will have to be done with a different pope; that much is certain.
As to leaving the Church; that is not an option unless you mean the parts of the Church that are Vatican II in content and practice (the Novus Ordo parishes).
Ann gave a good reason for why you can’t leave the Church here: https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/09/17/top-question-in-my-email-box-answered-ann-how-can-you-still-be-catholic/
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Well, I was speaking neutrally before commitment to Catholic axioms: you cannot leave if your conscience will not permit you to. That is a deeper question, however – what you think Rome is. One blogger I used to read, who passed on some years ago, heard God’s voice telling him to come out of whatever mainline denomination he was attending. “Come out of her My people!”, God said. He took it as a personal application, not as God saying this verse in Revelation means this specific church.
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I do not assume that a Christian cannot be demonised. In fact, I would not cast them out of anyone who was not a Christian or prepared to immediately become one. The result is 7 times worse as they are re-infested.
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I think that is a reasonable position and one that I am in agreement with. I remember Jock McSporan took the contrary view. I assume that Catholics believe they can be demonised since Catholics take themselves to exorcists.
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Indeed they can and as Fr. Amorth notes sometimes God allows satan to attack his holiest ones (reminding me of Job). I think of the constant battles that St. Padre Pio fought during the night with the beast. He would get mad at his Guardian Angel for not doing more to protect him. God does test our virtues but only up to the point where we have the grace to become victorious; never being tested beyond our means. But for those who have opened portals due to lack of faith, belief, love of sin, money, pride etc. these attacks might either take them to the dark side permanently or provide an opportunity to enliven their Christian faith through the Rite of exorcism and the all the prayers being said for their peace and well-being. I agree with Rob that Christians are the one’s who benefit . . . or those who would consider Christianity. Having your eyes opened to the supernatural reality of God is likely to have a good effect for the rest of a person’s life.
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This is where good pastoral work comes in also. If someone comes for help, but the pastor is not prepared to come alongside them, then the good work may well be wasted. This is the danger of many large churches -vulnerable people get swallowed up in the crowd.
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And why, Catholics (are supposed to) go to Confession often and let their priests get to know them, their prayer lives and their faults so that they can work on them. Sadly, since VII this kind of relationship and spiritual direction is hard to find . . . at least at the level of understanding and spirituality that these confessors need. Younger priests have not been trained in such things and the new classes they take in spiritual direction is rather more akin to psychology than growth in spirituality.
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That is pretty sad – I would rather have a priest who prayed with me and thought about what God might be saying in the situation than one who spouts psychological jargon and vaguely says that everything will be all right.
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Yes, another thing that we need to pray about that needs be restored; good spiritual directors. Holy men who know the pitfalls of life and the spiritual life. Those who know how to discern a personal vision from one that is prompted by the evil spirits, and can keep the spiritual aspirant moving in the right direction instead of telling them that everything will be alright. You’re OK . . . I’m OK is not very helpful.
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Indeed – it is also rather insulting where someone is coming for help because he believes he has no power of his own to sort the situation out. There’s a reason it used to be called “deliverance ministry”.
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Indeed. Sadly, few Christians are truly on a spiritual journey anymore and their apathy has either had an effect on our priests or the other way around . . . I’m not sure anymore. We are not trying to raise up saints anymore it seems and it seems that we just want to feel good about the way we are living out our lives . . . and of course we want our priests to reassure us that we are going to heaven even if we do nothing to try to grow in faith, hope and charity in this life, never pray, never read a book and never stick our necks out to do something for others; we’d rather send a check to a charity. In fact I think these big charities have helped ruin our societies because we do not know anybody anymore or how we might be able to help them while exercising works of spiritual or corporal mercy.
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Frustration is a feeling that drives us to seek true friends, especially introverts like me. I’m sad that I cannot discuss difficult material I am working through with some people, but pleased that I do have a group where I can share my thoughts and learn from others. Someone kindly added me to an intertextuality group he has created where he has compiled a database showing links/parallels between the NT and other texts.
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I remember reading about Smith Wigglesworth, a Pentecostal evangelist. One night he woke and the devil had appeared in his room. He recounted that he told him “Oh its only you” and he turned in his bed and went back to sleep.
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Indeed. Men of great faith usually have the grace to thwart demonic attacks. What is frightening to me is the stories of people who know not what they are doing and the possessed or obsessed person actually ends up dying from cardiac arrest or some other malady . . . not giving sufficient rest between sessions etc.
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Yes, I love that bit of scripture, Rob and read the commentary on it yesterday as a matter of fact. There seems to be a 3 tiered interpretation as I recall them: One having to do with the ineffectual casting out of demons by the Pharisees, another of the difference once the Christ has brought to us the new and final Kingdom and one that has to do with Israel in an historical sense. I’ll need to re-read it again as it had some good points.
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I have written another comment with my observations that are specific to the interview itself, but the comment has not appeared – it may be in some folder on WordPress, possibly “Trash”.
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An interesting article having read it all aI wrote a response but can’t figure how to cut and paste it at the moment.
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Hi Rob, I’ve missed you around here. The only way to copy and paste this is to copy the page onto another word processor page (it will be inside of a table). Then copy the info from inside of the table and paste it into the comment box. That was what I had to do to post the part that I posted. Hope that helps. 🙂
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Good brother Nicholas is rite. Come out of her or suffer her plagues. But good brother Nicholas, they cant do without the pageantry and the graven images. They hate the risen Lord and love a lie.
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Amroth is of course right on many matters here. Curses and evil eye etc can clearly result in demonization. However, most of the cases I have encountered have been the result of personal voluntary dabbling in various forms of occult, spiritism or false religions or persistent deliberate sin.
Occultism is rife in the west and far more frequent than curses whereas in Africa I encountered the effects of cures and was told this was extremely common. So Amroth may well be right on a global view. Further along in the article in relation to Catholic Europe Amroth seems to agree “… people are abandoning God and giving themselves up to occultism. (mentioning) Satanic Rock music … children’s magazines and comic strips … spiritualism … automatic writing.” I have encountered all these things however, these matters also considered extreme and fanatical concerns by some evangelicals.
The questions asked of Amroth how exorcists are considered in the Catholic Church and his replies are illuminating – “We found ourselves up against a wall of rejection and opposition … (We) are treated as though we are crazy, as fanatics,”
Q: What is Satan’s greatest success?
Amroth: “… making people believe he doesn’t exist… he has almost succeeded. Even in the church. We have a clergy and an episcopate that no longer believe in the Devil … Nor in the power that Jesus has given us to drive out demons… this situation of the Catholic Church in which belief in the existence of the demon is in the process of disappearing.”
This brought to mind parts of C. S. Lewis “The Screwtape Letters (of a senior demon to one in training)”. The senior demon advises his junior – Convincing the world we do not exist is our best tactic but no so enjoyable. – These days Satan is pulling of the master trick of not being believed in while the west increasingly dabbles in the occult etc.
Non-liturgical Pentecostal / Charismatic Churches (If they address demonization) should stress maturity in the faith and experience for practitioners but they do not use what they consider rituals. But certain processes are often followed: –
Taking the inventory of the subject: If you know what the client has been into toy know what they need to repent of and renounce – you may also know the identity of the demon or this may be revealed by a spiritual gift.
Confession and Renunciation: removes any claimed authority of the demon due to compliance by the subject. By taking this step prior to attempting to expelling the demon has proven to make deliverance less protracted or dramatic. However, frequently the demon will prevent the individual from speaking, they may start to choke. The minister should take Christ authority over the demon to gain the client freedom to co-operate in the deliverance. It also put the client in a better place (For the Catholics ‘state of grace’) to maintain their freedom.
Direct commands to expel demons in the name of Christ.
If deliverance were not immediate you recommence interviewing, pray or worship.
In the process, it will be more trusting the leading of the Holy Spirit rather than following a ritual.
The name of Jesus is the authority and sufficiency throughout the New Testament in dealing with these matters.
The person should be given and will probably need pastoral care and ongoing advice. This is difficult if they are in a church that has not believed or recognised their problem.
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“This is difficult if they are in a church that has not believed or recognised their problem.” I think homosexuality is one of those areas where this is particularly difficult since so many churches now take a Leftist view or keep silent on the matter.
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It is like letting people play with a ouija board and not giving a second thought as to what this might lead to spiritually.
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One thing scoop to remember is that after Vatican II the exodus from the confessional rampart. I remember reading from an exorcist that confession being a sacrament is far more powerful than an exorcism.
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It is, in the sense that if people were confessing regularly. there would rarely be demonic obsessions and possessions. For the implication of regular confession is also a sign of one’s faith and desire to become a better Christian; to grow in faith, hope and charity. That presupposes that these people are unlikely to do the very opposite of what is taught by the Church; to dabble in the occult, indulge their individual concupiscence, lust for power and greed etc. all of which are gateways for the evil one.
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Scoop: Following the Article on Amroth the point about the efficacy of confession brought to my mind something I wrote some years ago. It runs into 1000 words. I was wondering whether post it as a reply or as a post for which I am not familiar with the protocol. Please advise. Rob
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Can you save it as a pdf or a text file and send to me? I could then post it for you if you would like.
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Scoop – How do I send it to you?
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send it to newsforcatholics@gmail.com Rob.
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Exactly! I have the same problem. Traditional parishes used to (and many still do) have confession before every Mass. But like you, my parish sets aside an ‘entire’ 30 minutes a week for the entire parish to go to confession . . . and, of course, on a Saturday afternoon when folks are doing things with their spouses, families, friends and the inevitable weekend chores that need to get done. And they continue to do this because they say nobody comes . . . and nobody comes because you are not there when they would come. It’s the old which came first, the chicken or the egg routine.
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Interesting insights from the evangelical and charismatic side, Rob. Thank you.
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We also need to distinguish between individual oppression and big picture satanic deception, such as the miracles of the False Prophet/Man of Sin.
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I think the ideas of the False Prophet/Man of Sin is manifesting itself like a John the Baptist these days. It has permeated almost every walk of life. So when He himself, manifests himself he will be easily accepted and considered a peace maker.
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the power of an exorcism is dependant on belief in Jesus – that’s why the film the Exorcist was so scary – the Priest’s faith was weak so Satan won and the audience was left with the terrible assumption that anyone could be taken over by Satan or demons and we were powerless to resist – which is of course not true
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