My friend Servus Fidelis has many virtues, not the least of them being the ability to spot things some of us can’t see for looking. He kindly pointed out to me that what ginnyfree might be looking for was: ‘how you from an Anglican became an Orthodox only to become a Roman Catholic.’ That set me to thinking, and my reaction goes something like this: I didn’t, I began and ended as a Christian, but labels matter.
Even now I am a Catholic – well I have the certificate to prove it – some would say I’m not, and at least one person has commented, elsewhere, that my Roman Catholicism is ‘shallow’. Much the same thing happened when I was Orthodox, and if it didn’t when I was an Anglican, it was because there are many types of Anglican. Critics would say, in a shallow way in my view (and I’m qualified to judge on that one) that that is because Anglicanism is so amorphous anyone can be one, who who can tell? The truth is more like Anglicans partake of a general English reluctance to make windows into men’s souls; our history has done that to us. I quite enjoyed that, still do, and find the eagerness of some Orthodox and Catholics to tell others what they believe as weird as I do Bosco’s insistence that he can tell who is a follower of Jesus and who isn’t. My thought is that it is remarkable that a chap can tell the fate of one’s immortal soul, but has no idea what next week’s lottery numbers might be – which shows what an odd world it is.
I never thought to cease being an Anglican, and there are those who would say that’s about the size of it. But the Church of England did something which to me was not within its remit; it ordained women. Believe me when I say I have heard all the arguments, and I have prayed on the subject until my knees ached and my throat hurt, but all I ever heard back was that the Church cannot do this, any more than it can make a woman a man. The Church decided that it would go with what the Western world now regarded as normative, I stayed where I had always been and where it had always been. So, orphaned, as it seemed to me, I cast around me for an ark as the waters rose.
Had I been a Protestant, I daresay that would have been fine, but I am not. I was a High Anglican, and stood where Newman stood in the 1830s, but also where Pusey stood all his life. I admire Pusey greatly, and he had kept me steady – but the Church moved beyond where it was in his day, and so I did what other High Anglicans did, which was to refer to their own history, remember the admiration the Caroline Divines had for the Orthodox, and went in that direction.
Like Pusey, I had the view that the Catholic Church in the Latin Rite had added things to the faith once received, which might, or might not be warranted, but which only an Ecumenical Council could prescribe; there being none, and the Papal claims being exaggerated, the Orders of the Orthodox Church were the ark of refuge. There I found great holiness, great prayer, great love for God, and a liturgy the angels in Heaven participated in in envy of man’s gift. But, but, and but, something was not right.
Part of that was cultural. Orthodoxy’s history has tended to make it very much a cultural phenomenon, and whilst some quite liked turning themselves into Russians (I know one Englishman who ended up speaking with a foreign accent!), that was not me. But it was more than that. Was I right about the Pope and the additions? How far was that the Anglican in me?
That was Newman. Before ever Newman was declared Blessed, I had a devotion to him, and I asked for his help, that being the sort of thing a High Anglican/Orthodox might do. I thought I’d understood what he was saying about development of doctrine, but I hadn’t – not with my heart. I stopped reading it and prayed about it.
As I did, the clearer it became that what I, and the Orthodox, said were ‘additions’ were true developments. If there was a ‘eureka!’ moment, it was the one Newman had had long before me: Peter was the Rock, the Pope was Peter’s successor, not being in communion with Rome was to be in schism and, most likely, heresy!
But I did not want to be a Roman Catholic; tough, if I wanted to be in Christ’s Church, that was what had to happen. Now, were I fortunate, I might have a branch of the Ordinariate nearby, and life would be easier in that respect. But this was before all of that, and so it was necessary to go through the whole process. It was a curious one, not least since most of it was more than familiar to me, and there was a great deal less veneration of Our Lady than my Anglican background had given me. But there it was, and I could do no other.
All of this was not a search for Christianity, it was a search for the right place in which to be a Christian. I remain grateful for the Anglican spirit which allows me not to rush to judgement on my fellow Christians. If a fellow is doing his best by the lights given to him, it really is not my job to throw stones at him, but rather to talk with him, or her, on the way, and swap notes and stories, as pilgrims do. It isn’t about turning myself into the best Catholic, having been the best Orthodox and the best Anglican, it is about being in the place where my long journey with God is best placed. Those who don’t think I am a proper Catholic may have a point, but they need to take it up with the chaps who guided me here – a duo by the name of Holy Spirit and Newman.
Servus Fidelis said:
Maybe it is the Englishman in you. 🙂
With most, seriously minded, Catholic Conversions that I have come across, at the core of their being they liken the conversion as akin to a marriage: a real commitment made with vows and no view that a divorce will ever be acceptable. In this marriage, if you will it is until death do us part and we know our bride is going to outlive us. And for better or worse, is what has you and I enduring all sorts of things that we find hard to take on a personal level.
With other faiths, it is simply a matter of walking out the door, going down the street and signing up at the next church. It is ‘no fault’ divorce without any guilt involved.
Now if a convert thinks of the Catholic faith in that same way, I would comment that they certainly did not understand the nature of the commitment to which they were embarking upon.
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chalcedon451 said:
I suspect it is 🙂
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newenglandsun said:
That was the way I began to understand it as I became a Continuing Anglican. There are going to be doctrines in Christ’s Church I don’t like–such as the exclusion of women to the priesthood–but my mission is to be bound to the Church, not to anything else. Whenever someone tells me that I should check out some sort of liberal theologian, I always respond and say, “Why would I want to read that when I can read St. John Chrysostom or St. Thomas Aquinas? I’m bound to Jesus’s Church, not Kathy Escobar’s Church or Scot McKnight’s Church.”
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David B. Monier-Williams said:
Both Servus and Ginnyfree have served a great purpose. They’ve both gotten you out, at least a little bit out, of your English reticence to think and talk about your faith journey in more detail. It’s more than my father ever did. I have absolutely know idea how or why he crossed the Tiber, except that he followed the suggestion from his mother, a very High Church holy woman.
So bravo C, though for you, it might seem like pulling hen’s teeth.
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ginnyfree said:
Yippie! The writing style is improving and more of the Spirit’s guidance into the safe haven of Catholicism is showing. Ah, and the longing for authentic and inspiring Marian devotions. Have you checked the parish you are at for a Praesidium of the Legion of Mary? http://www.legionofmary.ie/about They will be able to help you find that special something you hoped would be waiting for you when you come home to Rome. I think they will be able to help you sincerely and I apologize for being so rough on you Chalcedon. You do have a very kind heart and it shows and I kinda did my Bull in the China closet routine which can be hard on some of the dishes. However, since I’ve nicked, I can now polish. Please do contact them. If they aren’t in your parish, they will be happy to allow you a seat in their places so as to warm yourself by their fires. You won’t regret it. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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chalcedon451 said:
Glad you liked it 😄 Alas, Marian veneration is thin on the ground, and there isn’t a branch of the Legion of Mary within several hours drive. But I pray my Rosary every day, and it beings me great benefit.
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Bosco the Great said:
Spirit’s guidance into the safe haven of Catholicism ——ginnyfree
Mexico City (AFP) – Victims of sexually abusive priests from across the Americas joined forces Monday to urge Pope Francis to allow civilian justice to punish pedophiles and those who covered up their crimes(don’t count on that)
From the United States to Argentina, Chile, Mexico and other nations, victims issued a letter made public in Mexico City telling the Argentine pontiff that “words are not enough.”
(hey, its only one or two pedophile priests. And no, words are all youre gonna get)
The letter said that only civilian trials and Church reform will put an end to the “great holocaust of thousands of boys and girls who were sacrificed to avoid scandal and salvage the image and prestige of the Catholic Church’s representatives in the world.”
(heck no. We wont turn in ourselves…you crazy or something?)
The victims said the pope’s recent admonishments of sex abuse in the Church are “ambiguous and contradictory” because they do not lead to any “institutional process toward truth and justice.”(of course. We wont stop molesting. Its what we do)
Pope Francis has(stuck his head out of a window and) called for “zero tolerance” against abusive priests since his election in March 2013.
He has asked victims for forgiveness, pledged to combat pedophilia and formed a Church child protection panel(of pedophiles)
http://news.yahoo.com/pedophile-priest-victims-urge-action-pope-222023427.html
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Servus Fidelis said:
Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy. This figure, cited in the book Pedophiles and Priests by non-Catholic scholar, Philip Jenkins, is from the most comprehensive study to date, which found that only one out of 2,252 priests considered over a thirty-year period was afflicted with pedophilia.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, but the father of lies makes Bosco concentrate on the tiny minority.
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh , silly me. Its only one priest that is a pedophile. Forgive me.
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chalcedon451 said:
You seem to be having difficulty reading, Bosco. Whoever said it was only one priest?
The reason many of us find it difficult to believe you follow Christ is you always speak with the voice of the father of lies.
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Bosco the Great said:
Legion of Mary Child Safeguarding Policy
The Legion of Mary Child Safeguarding Policy aims to do everything possible to provide a safe environment for children and young people where they are cherished and encouraged to become involved in the life of our Church.
hahahahahahahahahahhaaaaa ;-D
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Servus Fidelis said:
Something funny about holy and religious people doing all they can to undo the damage by the secular media and slanderers such as yourself?
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Bosco the Great said:
its funny that they have to make that assurance. I wouldn’t bring a dog to any catholic org.
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Servus Fidelis said:
That’s abundantly clear. Christ has taken notice that you hate His Church and I can only pray that you amend your life before Christ no longer sends you the grace to repent.
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Bosco the Great said:
undo the damage by the secular media
The secular media shoulda outta haven’t have autta said nothing. Stupid secular media. They are the ones responsible, not the little Christs.
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Bosco the Great said:
On no. Secular media has tainted the CC. That’s wrong of them. they shouldnda said nothining. Don’t say nothing. Let our priests do their thing.
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Bosco the Great said:
ROME (AP) — Pope Francis’ point man on clerical sex abuse said Monday the failure of the Catholic Church to punish bishops who covered up for pedophiles had seriously harmed its credibility and that it must now lead the way by “humbly making the commitment to accountability, transparency and zero tolerance.”
(yes, now its time to talk about doing something about it)
Cardinal Sean O’Malley, archbishop of Boston, said canon lawyers and theologians were reviewing proposals to present to the pope on holding bishops and religious superiors accountable. The proposals were developed by Francis’ commission of experts, which O’Malley chairs and includes two survivors of abuse.
(I propose to tell the pope to tell the media that we propose to do something about it)
O’Malley said the sex abuse scandal had “seriously diminished” the church’s credibility in its core spheres of defending human rights, the unborn and immigrants.
“This has been caused in large part by the perception of a lack of accountability on the part of our leadership, causing many people to lose their trust in us and in the church,” he said. “We cannot fail to do all that is possible to restore our credibility.”
(Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.)come on, sing along with Bosco
Victims of abuse have long denounced the Vatican for failing to sanction any bishop who covered up for an abuser.
(We would have to turn all ourselves in…are you crazy>)
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Bosco the Great said:
tiny minority.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes,, unless, in father of lie math, 3% constitutes a majority.
You put the lies up, we knock them down.
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Bosco the Great said:
Its so rampant that the clergy has to circle the wagons.
Oh,its only 3%. That makes us the church Christ founded. I wouldn’t drop off my dog at a catholic church. Your cries of innocent are a little too late.
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chalcedon451 said:
As no one is claiming innocence, it would appear that Satan has so warped your mind that you can’t read any more.
You claim to have the Holy Spirit, you speak with the forked tongue of Satan. I doubt anyone here hears the voice of Jesus when you write, doubt that anyone reading your site thinks it is of Christ, or finds your witness as anything but a witness to the father of lies.
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ginnyfree said:
Look Bosco, when you get to where all pedophiles go, you can take a head count and get the actual number, but there will be more in-coming soon enough. You’re headed the exact same place they go at the end of their lives and you must want to be with them because you seem to place so much attention on their activities, why I’d go so far as to say you are positively obessed with the sexual lives of religious persons, but only of Catholic religious persons. Are there any other shorts you need to sniff in? Ya know like a head count of how many Imams have twenty or more virgins under the legal age? Bosco, sex crimes happen every day. Be honest. Ever go to the girlie bars where women get to dance around for your entertainment? You are sexually exploiting someone in the first person when you do and are supportive financially of those that do. And often it is the haunt of organized prostitution and the gate way to it for thousands every day. Go have an beer and sit and feel smugly self-righteous about a Priest of God who was actually a wolf and howl along with the best of them all the way to Hell. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare,
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chalcedon451 said:
It is about as common in society as a whole.
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Bosco the Great said:
By David Gibson | Religion News Service February 16 at 5:21 PM
ROME — On its 15 previous pilgrimages, the Catholic gay rights group New Ways Ministry drew maybe two-dozen people to visit holy sites in places like Assisi and Rome.
This year, the number of pilgrims unexpectedly doubled to 50.
Chalk it up to the so-called Francis Effect, where the pope’s open-arms acceptance is giving new hope to gay and lesbian Catholics who have felt alienated from their church for decades.
Heck, why not. All the costume holymen are homos. Oh yeah…they don’t want to admit that. Even though everyone knows.
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chalcedon451 said:
And this Gibson, does he speak for the Church? No. Your point?
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Bosco the Great said:
hey good sisrter ginnyfree, take another look at the 4 gospels, only this time keep this in mind…..jesus spoke lovingly and with forgiveness to all manner of people, but when he spoke to the professional religious costume holymen, , he always chewed them out. Always. And you wonder why I do it.
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Servus Fidelis said:
It’s just like now, Bosco. When you find a hypocrite or a sinner who is a priest, you do as they tell you and not do what they do. It hasn’t changed.
You need someone to teach you how to read the Scriptures because you are really fouling them up with the stench of your own interpretations.
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Bosco the Great said:
Since his election almost two years ago, Francis has pushed the church to focus less on denouncing the sins of others — especially on issues of sexual morality — and to instead to reach out more to the poor and social outcasts.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/15/pope-francis-homily_n_6687610.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
What, the church denounces the sins of others? No, this cant be. because im told by faithful cathols not to focus on sins of others. Whats that?….do as I say, not as I do?
Oh , that’s rite….its Catholicism. Our church teaches this and that, but we don’t practice what we preach, we just bad mouth people who don’t do what we teach. We don’t bad mouth our out of control priests, ….we just say its only one or two bad priests, and of course, we don’t do anything to stop them, because its all of us.
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chalcedon451 said:
I see that you take the liberal secularist line – not suprirrisng I buess.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Absolutely, you who is without sin, throw the first stone. Since you do not fear the judgment I suppose that you may judge others to your own standards without being judged as you judge.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus called the costume holymen vipers and said their father was the Devil….is this not so?
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Servus Fidelis said:
Yes Christ is God. He called them out. That is His prerogative, not yours. He told the people to do what they said but not what they do . . . is this not so?
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Bosco the Great said:
yes, this is so. the priests were the govt back then. Just like here in the US, the politicians are into child trafficking and theft. But we have to stop at the red light and go at the green light.
We are to follow Jesus lead. everything he did. He said to do these and even greater.
I talk to the people here with love and forgiveness. Then I call the professional religious people vipers.
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Servus Fidelis said:
It is no more fair to do so than to say every politician is corrupt or any other group for that matter. It makes you a slanderer and reviler which is a serious and grave sin. If you wish to stop that particular sin, it might be a good time to start right here and now with this single one by offering your apologies to those you slandered.
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Bosco the Great said:
Those I slander don’t read these pages. When I say US govt, I mean senators and congress and attorney gen. Its come to light that the people in charge have sex parties with under age kids. The head if the IMF and many in the French police force are being arrested for prostitute ring. Yes, our US leaders have parties where they bring in kidnapped kids and babies for them to tear apart. Its not nice. You might not believe it. I didn’t, at first. its much worster than you think. There was some guy in England, well respected in power circles and the media. forgot his name. he provided children for parties for the rich and the politicians there in London and elsewhere. just one of those that got exposed. he wouldn’t have clients if there wasn’t a demand. Your beloved bishops and archbishops and priests also provided children for what ever one wants them for, at a price…. a big price. This is one of the reasons its so important not to have a priest exposed….he might turn states evidence.
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Servus Fidelis said:
So for every one that is exposed you think in your tiny little mind that this must mean that all are guilty if they are even remotely connected: such as having the same type of job or they are of the same religion. That is calumny and slander and you know it. Don’t wiggle around it Bosco, your excuses to me are of no value and Christ sees through them. So it is of no use.
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chalcedon451 said:
Servus – I am giving up commenting on Bosco for Lent – care to join me?
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Servus Fidelis said:
It might well be a very good idea. One is too often tempted to be moved to anger and reviling him in return. I’m with you, C. 🙂
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chalcedon451 said:
I think so. I am going to suggest it in tomorrow’s post.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I just left Bosco my last advice before the end of Lent and told him so.
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chalcedon451 said:
Good – I think it is time we rested from him – it is a waste of time.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Perhaps so. But even if there is a small impact it is not worth losing our focus during Lent.
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chalcedon451 said:
I think so too – it will be a good Lenten discipline 😄
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Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed so. Let’s hope he doesn’t go hog wild. If so you may need to give him a penance by banning him until Easter. 🙂
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chalcedon451 said:
The discipline will be not responding.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Fine. I may have to impose a ‘do not read’ discipline on my own then. 🙂
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, I suspect I shall have to do the same.
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ginnyfree said:
Yippie! I’ll stop talking to him too. But wait! I forgot. I asked him too many of the wrong questions and he’s busy ignoring me anyway so as to not have to answer. Gee, now what do I do? I’ll have to stick to chocolate and sins and stuff. Phoooey. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
I know it sounds nuts.You wonder why im so down on everything and everybody. To you, the devil is some image on a piece of paper. Our reality is just the tip of the iceberg. We are surrounded by the spirit world. Its rite there next to you. Ready to swallow you. When you get some time, look up “blood covenant”. Music industry people do it to go to the next level of income. They just cant get to the multi million dollar level, so someone comes to them and tells them about this covenant, with the devil, but they call it something else, I don’t know exactly, and sometimes they are honest and say its the devil. Michael Jackson. the family was hurting for money. Someone did a covenant in blood. Michael died and they became rich. In the covenant, someone dies to make you rich. Hudson, the singer girl, her mother and brother died. Shes now very rich. lady Gaga did one and her friend died and she took over her persona.
Its real. This world is filled with devils. The common man isn’t aware, but the men in power are…they use the devil to stay there. To stay rich. But they have their reward.
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chalcedon451 said:
We are very aware – you need to ask questions of the spirit in you. It sounds like Satan and nothing like Jesus.
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Servus Fidelis said:
So is your solution to imitate them or be worse than them? You don’t fight evil with evil Bosco.
This is my last advice until the end of Lent. I will leave you to your own conscience now.
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Bosco the Great said:
yes good sister, Moses told the priests what to wear, down to the theads. You are trying to put me to shame with your superior knowledge. You forgot one important point, Miss Bible Scholar…..the priests were all Levites, no exceptions. You justify your cotume holymen by saying the Levite priests wore them? Well, you are left to justify the unbiblical practices of your religion. I don’t envy you.
When jesus died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom. We can now approach god by ourself, no need of intercessor. Youll find this theme all thru the NT.
You want cotume holymen, you’ve got it. Have at it.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Aaron and his sons were Priests of God and you’re dodging the question which is basically the same – if God didn’t want men to dress in a certain way in His Presence when ministering to Him in the Tent of Meeting why did He tell them to do so and why was He so specific in the clothes themselves? Nothing God does is trivial and meaningless except to some who think they know better than God. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I’ll offer my Holy Communion up for you again tomorrow Bosco.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. And the curve ball is “……….you are a Priest forever in the line of Melchizedek……” Let’s see God is a Priest and He wore garments with tassels which healed women and His garments were woven perfectly so as to be virtually seamless and envied among men so that they gambled for them. Sounds like Jesus may have actually been wearing vestments at some point in His life. I’ve got more….Get your Bible out and look it all up! Gen. 14, Ex. 28, Ex. 39, Matt. 9 ;22, Lev. 8, There is more Bosco. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Rite good brother Servus, I shouldn’t fight evil with evil. If it seems like that’s what im doing, I give my apologies. like I always say, I have no beef with the average man in the pews.
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Steve Brown said:
GREAT IDEA C! It will be the best lent ever.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, they were called Pharisees, Bosco, and they did what you do – called out others for their sins whilst ignoring their own sins.
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ginnyfree said:
Look Bosco, your “scholarship” is hot air! I’ve given Biblical accounts of the facts that God desired the men He gave the OT Priesthood to to dress a certain way. Moses was told down to the very treads of that the garments they would wear while ministering to Him in His Holy Tent of Meeting and in His Presence. It was all done as God willed it. He told them to make an ephod and what gems to place in it and the shape of the garments, right down to the tassels at the hem. Very specific directions on how to dress. Was this all wrong too? No. Those men were dressed from their skivvies up God. He even told Moses what their undergarments would be made of! No kidding. It’s is the Truth, ya know that Person you keep denying in all the other parts of Scripture you ignore or deny or refuse to accept?
You still won’t answer many of my questions. Here it ts again: If you are right and God doesn’t really want any Priests of His to wear anything special why did He do so when He gave the Priesthood to Aaron and his sons? It is all there in the OT.
But suppose you’re wrong and God still wants men to dress a special way when Ministering to Him, then what? You’ll have few less nasty things to say about how we practice our religion and you’ll have to admit we are right to do as we do. I don’t think you have the humility to admit you may actually be wrong and to a female to boot. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
I wasn’t ignoring you good sister ginny. I have to relinquish the computer all the time. Im not the only one here.
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ginnyfree said:
And another thing Mr. Bosco the Clown, Even Jesus had special garments because if you’ll recall a verse or two of Scriptures, the hem of His garment had tassels and a certain woman snuck up behind Him and touched one and was healed. Now, if God doens’t want men to wear anything special, why does He Himself wear them? In fact, His Priestly vestments were so special, (think seamless from top to bottom) they cast lots for them while He was dying upon the Cross. OOOOOOPS. God should’ve checked with the Boscovites before He got dressed that morning lest He give scandal by His very dress. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco’s own narrative of the crucifixion reads a little bit more like Dimmu Borgir’s “The Sacrilegious Scorn” (look up the music video).
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Bosco the Great said:
Good brother newengland, do you come in here to join in on those stoning me? Et Tu Newengland?
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chalcedon451 said:
I hope we can refrain from stone-throwing during this period of penance 🙂
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Bosco the Great said:
I agree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ooops, I forgot the happy face (:-D
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chalcedon451 said:
🙂
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newenglandsun said:
That is a very odd happy face. It’s like something from a horror film where there’s this monster semi-human with multiple faces, one upside down and one right side up.
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Bosco the Great said:
Its better than your Satans avatar. God bless. Bosco the great (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
So if I switched to a lion, would you consider that the Devil as he is a “prowling lion” (1 Pet. 5:8) or would you think I was depicting Jesus (Rev. 5:5)? How about if I used a sun as an avatar? Would that be Satan (Is. 14:12) or would that be Jesus (Rev. 22:16)?
So really, does a dragon have to necessarily be Satanic?
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Bosco the Great said:
No, most people think a dragon is godly.
Oh brother. It takes all kinds.
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newenglandsun said:
No one’s stoning any one Bosco. If we were, we would have banned you from commenting permanently. We do fear for your soul.
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Bosco the Great said:
Who is We?
(;-D
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newenglandsun said:
Chalcedon, Servus, ginnyfree, many others here, and I.
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ginnyfree said:
The clown needs a list……………..
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Bosco the Great said:
say, uh, good brother Newengland, since when did you become the voice of morality and reason?
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Bosco the Great said:
Come on good sister ginny, Jesus wore a garment…no mention of any special vestments and youre gonna have to refresh me on these tassels on his robe. Yes Jesus is a priest. So what? The saved are all kings and priests and saints. Anyway, why would the creator of heaven and earth feel the need to wear some costume? You are just so set on costumes and rituals that you don’t think its godly unless there is a fish hat involved.. You know what, im supposed to not be making fun of costume holymen for your lent thing. But ill answer your questions as gentely as I can.
And one more thing….Who you callin a Clown?
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ginnyfree said:
Okie dokie Mr Bosco the winning clown!
Why does God feel the need to dress in a special way as the Son of Man?
Because He is a Priest forever in the line of Melchizedek and He ordered the sons of Aaron, His Priests to wear vestments and He followed His own command to wear them as a Priest. DUH. No-brainer. He said follow me and they still do and one of the things that He asked His Priests to do is wear specific garments that took work and sacrifice to make. He did the same things He asked them to do (Besides that, He had the Mother of God to weave and sew them for Him and knowing what He’d be doing in the fulness of time, I bet she made more than a few extra for the men who would be His when the time came.) And the men He calls His Priests still do and in so doing, follow Him. If the garments that are called “Sacred to the Lord” are only costumes to you, I feel sorry for you. Seems like you’re still reviling the things of the Lord again. Maybe if you pray part of the Psalm from Mass today, Psalm 51, it would help. It goes like this: “O Lord, open my lips and my mouth shall proclaim your praise,” and mean it prayerfully, then maybe you’ll be more careful about the things you type. O Lord, open my lips……………….God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
The Mass> You mean you just came from re sacrificing the Lord?
By the way, Mary wasn’t one of his followers.
God bless. Bosco the Great (;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. You make me laugh. How did your great mind find out that His own mother didn’t follow Him? This outta be good. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
She was never around while he was on his mission. Once she showed up to a house with a few of his bros and sis, but Jesus didn’t come out to see them. Why don’t you show me where she was part of his ministry? First yould better ask Mary for guidance. But you better wait till her statue stops crying.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. This one is too easy you silly beastie boy. Um, if you follow Him in your heart, as you should as a Christian, then how can you since you are two thousand years removed from His actual footprints in the dust of the streets of Jerusalem? We follow Him still and we aren’t in Jerusalem two thousand years ago. Part of His Ministry? She gave birth to Him and announced the Good News of the Salvation of all of mankind to her cousin Elizabeth in her Magnificat found in Luke 1: 46 to 55 And Mary said: “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; 47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior. 48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. 49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name. 50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him. 51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart. 52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly. 53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty. 54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy, 55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
And another thing…..got a wife? No? Know anyone who does? Is she a stay-at-home-mom or out there working? Either way try telling her and her hubby that what she does is meaningless to their family. Not a part of anyone’s ministry? Parents minister to their children by instructing them in the Way and teaching them all about Jesus. This too is a share in HIS MINISTRY! All of us who live authentic Christian lives and try to bring Christ to others are actually sharing in His Ministry. WE are one Body. He is the Head and we are the members, the other parts, the ears, the nose the feet, the little tiny red blood cells, the muscles and eyelashes, the ribs and kidneys and the intestines and the knees……..ooooops sorry. I got carried away. Cut me a break Bosco. NEXT! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Invisible claims. Mary followed him in her heart. How come he didn’t come out of the house to see the all powerful queen of heaven.
And when someone yelled out…blessed are the paps that gave you suck and the womb that bore you….Jesus rebuked him or her and said , ….Nay, rather, blessed is he who believes in the Lord…or something to that affect. Now, we have a religion that does nothing but hold Marys womb in esteem. Flesh. Seems what ever jesus said not to do, these religious make haste to do .
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. I don’t have a lot of time tonight but I’ll fire off a quick one.
Bosco: “How come he didn’t come out of the house to see the all powerful queen of heaven.”?
Ginny: Because she wasn’t there. Neither were the supposed other sons and daughters she bore. Jesus said so. It was false witness and an attempt to manipulate Jesus, but He could see through the door, the same way I see through the Scripture. I’ve gone round this subject once with you already. Go back and find out what I wrote before.
God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh, Mary wasn’t there……it was a trick.
Bravo good sister. Pure catholic thinking. If you don’t like it, just say it aint so. Bravo. the best ive heard in yrs.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Thanks for the applause! However, it has nothing to do with preference. If Mary and Jesus’ “brothers and sisters” were really there He wouldn’t have ignored that, He would’ve let them in! No. You’re wrong. There were no other children born to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God. She was a Virgin before, during and after the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it you silly clown. You can rail all you want, but it won’t change the Truth for He is eternal. No, Jesus said that those in the room with Him were His brothers and sisters and all of us who do the will of God, that is keep His Commandments, etc. Matt. 12: 49-50 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.” So how about it Bosco, wanna be brother to the Lord in a real and meaningful way or will you persist in your faulty ways? Man up to the challenge. I bet you have a really beautiful spirit buried under all your sins, hidden behind your little clowny mask which could shine like the light we are supposed to be to others if you let it. Why send yourself to Hell? It makes no sense to read Scriptures and NOT do what they say. They really aren’t complicated. They are very simple because God wants us to get it! I hope you do finally. God bless. GInnyfree.
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ginnyfree said:
So, when are you going to answer my questions? They’re valid and pertinent and relevant. Real answer is you can’t our it will begin to undo your theories of theology and what really is God’s will. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Nevermind, I found the tassel. Some shreds for a design on the bottom of his robe. My guess is most robes has them. Doesn’t sound like a uniform to me. Still, , so what? The NT has done away with the priestly line. Jesus is of Juda, the OT priests were of Levite. What ever you call priests are….I dunno what they are. They go to some pink palace and get a man of god diploma. Hey, if that’s what you want, have at it. Uh, id better put on a happy face cause im being nice for this lent thing, by popular request (;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. And the Scriptures that support this premise of yours: “The NT has done away with the priestly line. ”
Bosco: “What ever you call priests are….I dunno what they are.” I call them Father. And some are really nice. But some aren’t.
Yeah, I think we should all try to be nice to the little beastie boy, Bosco for Lent too. But he makes it difficult when he sins so badly with words. Are you actually planning on spending your eternity in Hell? I still say if you’re headed in the wrong direction, God allows U-Turns.
I had a friend of a friend a while ago and this man was of your ilk Bosco, nothing but cussing could leave his mouth and he didn’t smell very nice either. He had a close brush with death. Spent a month on the mend in a hospital with pneumonia. He nearly died several times. They coded him. He made it back and when I saw him, I nagged him like usual and then I took out a freshly blessed Miraculous Medal and put it in the palm of his hand and made him take it. He looked at it and looked at me and I begged him, “Please, Gus, just keep it and don’t say no.” He paused and looked very crestfallen. I half expected it to get thrown at me. But no, he looked up at me and said, “I haven’t been to Confession in over 15 years!” And then I made a joke and said, “Well, then it’ll take a while won’t it?” He went and passed away after telling his sons to do likewise. He died at peace with the Lord after nearly going straight to Hell. It really was a miracle. Actually, several in a row. God spared his life so I’d nag him about his poor soul. I did and it worked. Here is the link: http://www.cammonline.org/
God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. Pray for Gus Bosco; he was a brother of yours in sin. He probably got a million and one years in Purgatory! But even if, it sure beats Hell.
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Bosco the Great said:
sAY, WHERE CAN I BUY ONE OF THESE MIRACULOSE MEDALS. I DONT WANT TO GO TO HELL. iLL PAY ANYTHING.
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Bosco the Great said:
Call no man on this earth Father.
You don’t care what jesus said, do you good sister. So get back to repeating prayer while youre kneeling befor your very own alabaster figurine of Diana……oops, I mean Mary
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Bosco the Great said:
(;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Is this the one you’re looking for? 👿
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Bosco the Great said:
You never told me where I can purchase one of these miraculous medals.
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ginnyfree said:
Bosco. the link was in the post about Gus. But since you’re a nice little beastie, I’ll give you a few more. http://www.marypages.com/first1.htm http://www.marian.org/news/The-Meaning-of-the-Miraculous-Medal-2942
http://www.cammonline.org/index.php?/medal/free-miraculous-medal
The last link will get you a freebie. Please check them out and be nice and polite in your correspondence. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I did offer up my Communion for you this morning again.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Call no man father. But the question was where is there a Scripture passage that says specifically there is to be no more Priesthood of men? THAT is the proof you must provide. You can’t because it isn’t there.
Now, about calling Priests Father. This refers to spiritual generation rather than actual biological generation or adoption. Use of the word doesn’t make a man a dad. Jesus also said call no one Rabbi or teacher. These prohibitions are about the relationship not the word itself because if it was, you’d have to stop calling your dad, “Dad.” Did Jesus mean to strip all fathers of the honor due them by their rightful title? Commandment: Honor your FATHER and mother. So, we know He doesn’t mean that. What does it mean then? The Israelites were monotheistic. They knew there was a God, the Almighty, but He was very distant to their everyday and now they had to get used to HIm being alot closer, close enough to call Him by the familiar term, Father. And so He is because part of Jesus’ revelation to us regarding God was that He is indeed our Father. Jesus instructed His disciples to pray, “Our FATHER, Who art in Heaven……” But when? Did His later instruction to call no man Father, end the use of the prayer in which the Jews, and then the Gentiles, and then all men, were instructed to say “Our FATHER, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name……? It has been said ever since God gave it to us and I’m pretty certain, Bosco, that you’ve even said it yourself. Our Father, Who art in Heaven…… The Jews were instructed to call God their Father because He is. We are all His by adoption thru His Son, Jesus Christ, by our Baptism into Christ. It is not undoable. We are His. He is Dad! And one to the other terms used for Him is Abba, Father, which to the Israelites, signaled just how close a relationship with Him He desired because that is an intimate way of calling a man “father,” same way the difference between daddy and father is today in our language. Our Father, Who art in Heaven….. Now, why did Jesus worry the Jews with this admonishment? Because the Romans were in town!!!! And their religion did deify men and practice of this was to worship the Caesar! People literally had to bow to him as if to a god! Abomination to the Lord! Call no man Father! Do not deify any person is what it means. The Greeks did it too. They deified human beings of both sexes as do other religions. Jesus was telling them to stop doing this and to not do this in the future. People are only people and though we will go to Heaven and be like the angels after our bodies are glorified we don’t worship anyone else besides God! The incense offered to the statues of the Roman gods was also offered to statues of the reigning Caesar. Why do you suppose there are so many archeological remains of all of the Roman rulers? Because they made them in quantity as soon as the man got the throne so those persons who practiced the religion of the Romans could offer worship to Caesar wherever they were in the empire. They’d make the statues and send them out and there were folks who made sure proper worship of the Caesar they represented happened where they were erected. If you were asked to prove you were a faithful citizen, you did so by burning incense at one of these altars with the statue of Caesar on it and it was an act of worship, a specific act that Jesus forbid by the admonition to call no man Father. He was referring to calling a human being a god and thusly replacing the true God in Heaven with a Roman man, the Caesar, by worshiping him as a god. The refusal of the Christians to do this was the signal reason they would then be Martyred! If you were a Christian and suspect of practicing this illegal religion, they would ask you to burn incense in front of a statue of Caesar and this was an act of worship and an abomination to the Lord. They simply couldn’t do it! It was a mortal sin! It cost them their lives to refuse. The Romans caught on and if you take the time to read the stories of the Martyrs, you will know that this signal practice fingered them as Christian and was used quite often to prove to all those present that they were Christian and subject to death.
So, there ya go Bosco. A very nice apologetic for the Scripture you twist to mean something it absolutely has nothing to do with! And I took my time with it, so you can be nice to me in your reply simply because I took my time with it. Oh and BTW, Bosco, call no man Father for you have one Father in Heaven! You silly man. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I will ask one more time for the Scripture that specifically states that God is eliminating the Priesthood in the future now that His Son has come. Where is it?
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Bosco the Great said:
they would ask you to burn incense in front of a statue of Caesar and this was an act of worship and an abomination to the Lord
I know people and churches that burn incense in front of statues they call Mary. Does that count?
“Jesus instructed His disciples to pray, “Our FATHER, Who art in Heaven……” But when? Did His later instruction to call no man Father, end the use of the prayer”
It was easy for Jesus to be Jesus, but is alittle tough for us. We have earthy men who fathered us, of course. But god formed us in the womb. We all call this man who fatherd us Dad or Pop or even father. Its traditional. I came to believe scripture long ago, and the more I learn, the more I believe what the scriptures say. Jesus said ‘call no man….on this earth….Father. You didn’t take that into account when you said it negates the prayer “Or Father” You missed the small proviso ” to call no man on this earth father” In your haste to justify calling costumes Father, you failed to see the prayer call “our Father in HEAVEN”….not earth. (;-D
Thanks for your time in writing a detailed response. It gave me the ability to know your exact position. By the way, Jesus didn’t call Mary mother. He called her “woman”. If he spoke to Joseph, im sure he would have called him by his first name, not Father.
So, Jesus is very plain…call no man…on this earth…father. That mean the entire earth.
Ill look for the verses that show there is no priest class anymore. It will take me some time, but the best one is that the veil was rent from top to bottom. No we need no mediator. Quiet simple. For those of you who want men as mediators, well, good luck.
(;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco.
Bosco: “Thanks for your time in writing a detailed response.”
Ginny: Thanks for the thanks.
Bosco:” Jesus didn’t call Mary mother. He called her “woman”.
Ginny: Too easy Bosco! Do you honestly think the only time Jesus EVER said anything to His Mom was recorded for you in the pages of Scripture? Do you honestly think He called her woman when He was a baby, a toddler, a young man? That is really too far fetched.
Bosco:”So, Jesus is very plain…call no man…on this earth…father.”
Ginny: I’ve given you sufficient answer already. Read it again s-l-o-w-l-y.
God bless. Bosco.
P.S. I’ll speak to God tomorrow for you again when I receive Communion.
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Bosco the Great said:
I read it twice, because I couldn’t believe my eyes the first time. You equated the Our Father with Jesus telling us to call no man on earth Father. But god is our father in heaven. So its clear you missed that in your haste to justify calling men father. I feel sorry for cathols. They are left to find justification for doing things forbidden in scripture.
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ginnyfree said:
All rightie Bosco. Since you’ve gone literalist, how do you DO this one: 53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
So Mr. Smarty pants, how do you do the literal thing on this particular Scripture or are you done being literal in the extreme when it comes to the Bread of Life discourse? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
His Words are the bread of like. Man does not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of god. Jesus Words are life. You mistake the ritual for the Word of God. Youre not happy unless you stand in line to do something to please god. Take a number and wait your turn. God bless.Bosco the Great (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
One thing I find appealing about Catholic and Orthodox Churches is while they both strongly believe their church is the only possible true church, they aren’t going to be jumping to the conclusion that I’ll burn in Hell. I always tell my little sister’s boyfriend (who is Catholic though not technically practicing) that I love how his church forbids him from speculating on who’s in Hell.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus himself said not to speculate on who is in hell. His church , however, makes tons of money speculating on who is in this made up non existent purgatory.
When in the coffer a coin rings
Out of purgatory a soul springs (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco, no one bought any one out of purgatory in the middle ages. You are suffering from a very poor Protestant propagandist historical revisionism which many Protestants still suffer from nowadays.
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Bosco the Great said:
The Bascilica was built with purgatory money. Ive told you a million times switch to weed from heroin.
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newenglandsun said:
We’ve given up asperity for Lent on this blog, Bosco.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco.
“When in the coffer a coin rings
Out of purgatory a soul springs ”
How would you like to live off alms that trickle in to the tune of three whole cents a day when there is rent to pay of sixty dollars and you’re a vowed religious? Guess what? Sisters pray, but they need food. God bless Father for begging for a few pennies so they can spend their days and nights doing the penance no one wants to (or as in your case, thinks they shouldn’t even have to because Jesus died for it all!!!!!!!!) And the joke is on you Bosco, because the prayers of the righteous avail much and if a grateful Sister who got a few pennies from some one, actually prayed the soul of one of your loved one’s out of Purgatory??????????? Gee, Bosco. Is God not allowed to do what He wants with His money? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Purgatory. (:-D
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ginnyfree said:
Purgatory sure beats Hell. Think about it. Choice is yours. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
It is appointed unto man once to die, then the judgment. No mention of purgatory. But, the path to destruction is wide and many be there on.
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newenglandsun said:
Purgatory is a place between Heaven and Hell that prepares us for final purification to enter Heaven. People in purgatory have been judged that their life needs further purification before entering into Heaven.
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Bosco the Great said:
I understand that there are flames in purgatory. Is this how the story goes? Thanks in advance (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
I think so. Our God is a consuming fire after all.
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Bosco the Great said:
2d be freakin pissed if I had to burn in purgatory. pay for my own sins. I like the fact that Jesus paid for ALL my sins. Remind me not to join your religion. God bless. Bosco the Great (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco, you don’t pay for your sins in purgatory. Purgatory purges whatever sins you have left and further prepares you for Heaven. No one is “paying” for sins in purgatory.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NES Yeah! Go team! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco.
Bosco:”. I like the fact that Jesus paid for ALL my sins.”
Ginny: He can’t pay your debt because you don’t confess your sins. In fact, you don’t even admit any sins cause you got “saved” and works such as confessing are worthless to you. You’re very good at confessing the sins of others, but actually confessing your own? When was the last time you saw the BOX? The last time you went to Mass was Dec. 24, 1971. That is a long time ago. Come on Bosco. Give it up. Man up to the task of decency. Repent and believe the Good News! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Believe the good news? Pray tell, what is this good news? Thanks in advance (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
The good news is that you are a sinner but Jesus has provided sacraments for you that make it easier for you to link yourself back to him! Start with baptism, then confession and the eucharist!
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NES. You said: “I always tell my little sister’s boyfriend (who is Catholic though not technically practicing) that I love how his church forbids him from speculating on who’s in Hell.”
I don’t know which church you think says it is forbidden to speculate about the population of Hell. It isn’t the Catholic one though. The Church cannot say if any one particular person is in Hell, but you can bet we say there are plenty of folks who failed the test. (Matter of fact I know a few good Saints that could scare the mortal sins out of you for about three generations! Just read their stuff.) And so are the third of the angels that fell. (except of course those few who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.)
Dying in mortal sin leads to Hell. If you know someone who died in mortal sin, then yeppers, you may be very right. Pray for them. And don’t do as they did. It is a destination God would prefer you left behind if you are headed there. I’ve met a few heretics who think God is so loving and merciful that He’d never allow anyone to actually go there because He loves them and if you love someone, you save them especially if you’re God! NOT!!!!! God respects free will and if a person wills to sin mortally, he or she will pay the full price. The measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Some twist this to mean something it doesn’t. The fall is cushioned by presumption. Never presume on God’s mercy. He doesn’t have to forgive anyone. He sent men to see to it this gets done. It is done in a Sacrament called Confession. Only those who are heretics tell folks not to speculate about Hell. It is a very distasteful word to a heretic cause that might very well be their destination for eternity and if they think about it for very long, they won’t be able to sing their Yahweh Saved a Wretch Like Me Songs anymore! It is makes them terribly uncomfortable if they speak of such things and so they forbid folks from talking about it around them and claim it is the Church who forbids it! Simply math – one + one + heretic = the church forbids you talk about going to Hell and also the devil is a myth too! Sounds like your friend’s son got lied to about the things that really matter in life. Get him a few good books and read a chapter together with him every night. Saving his soul might also save yours. Get busy!!!!!!!!!! Oh shoooie. Another Mom lecture. Sorry. I can be annoying I know. Just say thanks Mom, and pray for me. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Only catholic churches have confession boxes. I quess prots aren’t going to heaven (;-D
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newenglandsun said:
That isn’t entirely true, Bosco. There are quite a bit of Anglican Churches that have confession booths (you should read one of Mother’s posts here on the subject of confession). However, no Catholic has ever stated that a confession booth is necessary for a valid confession to take place. As a matter of fact, Greek Catholics (and many Eastern Catholics) confess publicly their sins to the priest (I’ve even heard a couple of confessions). In the Middle Ages (pre-Reformation) confessional booths were unheard of. Normally, people confessed once a year on Easter when also they received their yearly Eucharist.
Many Anglicans still keep the tradition of public confession (when I confess, I do it publicly) so if you go into an Episcopal or Anglican church hear in the United States, one thing you will not see is a confession booth. However, Anglicans and Episcopalians still maintain the sacrament of confession, they just do it in public (generally speaking) like the Eastern Christians do. There is nothing within the sacrament that requires a box/booth for it to be valid.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NES. In the Roman Rite, to which I belong, we do have guidelines for the Sacrament of Penance in abundance. The sternest is the Canon Laws themselves. Specifically we have Canon 964 which governs the actual place for the Sacrament: Canon 964, 1, The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or an oratory. 2, The conference of bishops is to issue norms concerning the confessional, seeing to it that confessionals with a fixed grille between penitent and confessor are always located in an open area so that the faithful who wish to make use of them may do so freely. 3, Confessions are not to be heard outside the confessional without a just cause.
So there ya go. The BOX! And it’s rules. (And this ain’t all of them either!) Pay particular note to number three. It clearly states that Father is to hear the penitent in the BOX whenever possible and to do so outside without a just cause breaks the Canon. Validity isn’t effected by the place the absolution is given, but licity can be and is. However, the licitness and the sins incurred by illicitness fall on the Priest not the penitent.
God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
And if you’ll note the Eastern Code of Canon, there is no such regulation.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NES. I found two Codes from the CCEO that may interest you. And these apply to all the other 22 Rites in Communion with us, Sui Iuris as the phrase is. You are correct there is no specific mention of a grille or confessional as in the Roman Canons, but it is definitive on the place and times and when justice requires alternative measures. Here they are: Canon 669 – Since the sacraments are the same for the entire Church and belong to the divine deposit, it is for the supreme authority of the Church alone to approve or define those things which are required for their validity.
To me this says that the rubrics pertaining to each particular Rite remain governed by right the Holy See. It isn’t up to any particular Church to change anything on their own. If they do deem a change necessary, it still must be approved by Rome. This extends to any particular Priest of God who, as happens may feel moved to innovate. The second I picked it this one Canon 736 – §1. The proper place for celebrating the sacrament of penance is a church, with due regard for the prescriptions of particular law. §2. Due to infirmity or another just cause, this sacrament can be celebrated outside the proper place.
The spirit of the law here is the same as the Roman Canon and though it doesn’t mention either a grille or a small room for privacy, it is up to each particular Church to determine its particular customs. I don’t have the depth of knowledge required to answer competently for each particular Rite, whether or no the practice includes a private room or confessional but I do know that whatever their particular practices are, the rubrics and requirements aren’t arbitrary or open to interpretation or innovation. The proper place for the celebration of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is inside the Church at set times known to the faithful and by whatever approved Rites proscribed unless a just cause requires an exception.
God bless. Ginnyfree
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newenglandsun said:
Yes. All Bosco needs is a true church to confess to and it doesn’t have to use a confessional booth. He can go to an ACA church and confess to a priest and that would be a valid confession.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello NES. No. The ACA isn’t capable of giving an actual Sacrament. Only Those who have valid Sacraments and who have been given the proper faculties can hear a confession and deliver absolution validly. To falsify this is an ecclesial crime and there are Canons that deal with it. If Bosco decided to return to the Church, he’d have one of 23 valid Rites from which to chose, but the Minister in each of those places would be the one to decide if he was sincere and capable of being absolve under their particular Rite. Chances are though they’d question him about his Rite of origin and if he was sincere and the Spirit was truly moving him to another Rite, they’d sense this in the process of hearing him whether that is in an actual confessional, in the privacy of a Rectory Office, (for just cause) or standing in front of an Icon of the Pantocrator as the Byzantine Rite provides. But he couldn’t just go to an Anglican Church in America and receive a Sacrament. They may do things similarly but they have no Sacraments except by their own saying so. They have no Sacraments to give! Being a fallen away Catholic, he’d know this though naturally.
God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
WHAT?!? How does the Anglican Church in America not have valid sacraments?!? It believes all seven that the Catholics do! You say the Assyrian Church of the East has valid sacraments but they don’t even acknowledge marriage as a sacrament!
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Bosco the Great said:
Uh Oh. The inquisitors would grill me? They would determine if im good enough to go to heaven? …Gulp! Id better get me some valid sacrememnts.
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newenglandsun said:
Who mentioned inquisitors?
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ginnyfree said:
Yes, and they’d finally give up and start on the nails, your finger nails first and stick wires under each one slowly till you scream and yelp and then if you still didn’t repent, they’d twist your toes with pincers till you scream and then they’d take your red little nosey and twist it too till it came off and unscrew your belly button and , and, and………I should’ve been an Inquisitor. Sounds like fun. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Canon Laws. There must be Canon police, in that case, to enforce this Canon Law.
(:-D
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ginnyfree said:
What Bosco? You’ve never seen a seven foot tall Sister Mary Dread n Butter with a solid ash ruler two inches thick ready to whack your little chubby knuckles? They called her the Enforcer and Dirty Harry himself would’ve ran and hid in the broom closet if he saw her coming!!!! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I know you know this verse. We have one mediator.
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
I understand bishops kinda ran the meeting places. used the tithes wiely and oversaw the meetings, got food and made sure there were enough chairs. This is still not a priest. And they were to be married and have kids. Anti Christ religions reverse this and say a bishop cant be married. Notice how your religion is always opposite what scripture recommends.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
kinda plain. No man can can want to be a priests and go make himself a priest…like going to priest school and getting a priest certificate. God makes one a priest. the last one was Jesus.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
The laws make a man a priest, who has infimities….and boy, do these priests have infirmities. But we have a high priest, who has been a priest forever.
You want infirm priests…you got em by the truckloads…Enjoy (;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Bingo! You got something almost perfect!
Bosco: ” No man can can want to be a priests and go make himself a priest…like going to priest school and getting a priest certificate. God makes one a priest. the last one was Jesus.”
Ginny: Only those called to the Priesthood should be made Priests. No one has a right to the Sacrament of Ordination. No one. But there are plenty who fake it in Protestant places. For example, in the first generation of the Anglican Church, they had validly Ordained Priests, but they changed the actual way they practiced the Rite of Ordination and so rendered their rite completely powerless to confer the Sacrament. When the first generation of Priests died out who accepted their King as a suitable substitute for a Pope, then there was no longer any truly Ordained Priests among them. There illicit Sacraments turned to invalid by their own doing. But if you went to many an Anglican service, it would seem awfully close to what we do in the Church. But it is a fabulous fake job. (Here I would like to apologize for my frankness to the Anglicans here, but the Truth is still the Truth and if it smarts to hear it, so be it.)
Now, about that word you used claiming Jesus was the last. No where in Scripture is that supported. In fact, Scripture refutes it often. Hebrews 2:17 therefore, he had to become like his brothers in every way, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest before God to expiate the sins of the people.
There ya go Bosco! Jesus has brother Priests. And he is a faithful and merciful high Priest. That little word “high” implies that there are lower Priests, which indeed there are, all those Ordained since. They are all lower Priests, lower than Jesus, the faithful High Priest. Hebrews 7:26 It was fitting that we should have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, higher than the heavens.
Once again it describes the Priesthood that Jesus holds as high Priest over the rest of His Priests Who He calls and the Church Ordains just as He taught and said to do.
Hebrews 7: 24 but he, because he remains forever, has a priesthood that does not pass away. And that means what it says, His Priesthood endures and hasn’t passed away and will not ever, not even in Heaven. The Sacrament of Ordination leaves an indelible mark upon the souls of those Ordained and it will shine brighter than the sun ever did in their hearts in Heaven, like gold that has been purified by the refiner’s fire! They will remain Priests forever as the Scripture states:“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” Hebrews 7:17. I suggest you go to that Chapter and read it s-l-o-w-l-y and pray this little prayer first: Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of Your faithful. Enkindle in us the fire of Your Love. Send forth Your Spirit O Lord, and we shall be created and You shall renew the face of the earth. This simple invocation does the job it is meant to.
I’m tired and need to say my Rosary. It is late. I’ll try and sort out some more of your stuff tomorrow after Mass and Communion. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
.High priest implies there are low priests. but its not stated. like Mark Shea and his “therefors”. NT mentions the elect are kings and priests. All of em. If you want ordained costume holymen…its a free country. (:-D
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ginnyfree said:
I’m no Mark Shea. Not by a long shot. Here’s a good fellow you might enjoy watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0MIEsvOes Let me know what you think afterwards. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
This is what I think…..Its sad. Go religion shoping and wind up buying into idols and costume holymen. A sucker is born every minute.
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chalcedon451 said:
And this is what I think. How sad it is to lock yourself into a prison of your limited understanding and then proclaim the Spirit inspires you. Anyone with the slightest acquaintanceship with the real Holy Spirit recognises the spirit which inspires your website. Bosco, repent, the kingdom is at hand, and you are in the hands of Satan who uses your pride. Repent – you cannot say you have never been told, and I will be able to say that the Last I did my best for you.
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Bosco the Great said:
She asked me what did I think.
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chalcedon451 said:
And your answer prompted my comment.
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Bosco the Great said:
yes, and a fine comment it was my brother (;-D
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chalcedon451 said:
If you would only read with the illumination of Christ’s Church, you would see more clearly.
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newenglandsun said:
You’re the one telling us that our faith does not need any more forming after we believe. That is clearly wrong. You should read someone like Kierkegaard who commented on the fact that it is harder to become a Christian when you think you are already one than it is when you are not yet a Christian. So what is key to becoming a Christian? STOP THINKING YOU ARE ONE!
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Bosco the Great said:
Its better than knowing im not one, like you
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newenglandsun said:
Actually, Bosco, thinking you are a Christian is worse than knowing you are not a Christian yet. Why? Because it makes you sound arrogant thinking there is nothing wrong with you.
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Bosco the Great said:
Tell it to your psychiatrist……I know theres plenty wrong with me. You keep accusing me falsely. Is that an Anglican thing? Or does your master make you do it?
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newenglandsun said:
You keep accusing us falsely! Is that a “born again” thing? I have not accused you falsely. You think you have found the true faith and wish to tell us that.
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ginnyfree said:
Play nice Bosco or the Inquisitors will twist your cute little nosey off. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. You didn’t watch it. I can tell. I have telepathic Mommy vision! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
I watched as much as I could stand.
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Bosco the Great said:
Q9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTEyNzg7aWw9cGxhbmU7cHlvZmY9MDtxPTc1O3c9OTYw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/8f99a97d8a28dc086e0f6a7067005c0b.jpg\\
Behind every idol is a demon
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Bosco the Great said:
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newenglandsun said:
Hey guys, this is a picture of our good friend Bosco.
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Bosco the Great said:
Where did you get that pic? Your family album? Mr Devil avatar.
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newenglandsun said:
It’s a picture of the demon-possessed Mia from the 2013 horror film remake, Evil Dead.
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ginnyfree said:
Lovely picture Bosco. Thanks for sharing. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Welcome. I knew yould love it.
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newenglandsun said:
Ginny, how do you like the picture of Bosco I found posted underneath the picture he posted?
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ginnyfree said:
OH my Gosh! You’re a bad little boy aren’t you NES!!!! Thanks I needed a laugh! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
That came after the inquisitors twisted his cute little nose off, BTW.
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ginnyfree said:
Maybe a bath for little Mia!!!
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newenglandsun said:
A little something for your friends who are Denver Broncos’ fans:
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Bosco the Great said:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: (360)
Thanks catholic church. Now I can go to heaven without being catholic…..See you in heaven Abdulla al Bagdadi
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chalcedon451 said:
You could just acknowledge you were wrong to think the Church teaches that only Catholics can be saved.
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Bosco the Great said:
I stand corrected. I apologize. I was wrong for thinking that there is no salvation outside the catholic church. Please accept my heartfelt remorse.
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chalcedon451 said:
Like so much else you come here with Bosco, it misrepresents (polite word for lies about) Catholic teaching.
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Bosco the Great said:
A lie is something someone says that they know is false.
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chalcedon451 said:
That’s why I used the euphemism.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus instructed His disciples to pray, “Our FATHER, Who art in Heaven……” But when? Did His later instruction to call no man Father, end the use of the prayer in which the Jews, and then the Gentiles, and then all men, were instructed to say “Our FATHER, Who art in Heaven —-ginnyfree
Your catholic apologetics has crumbled. You pulled a giant boner on this one. I don’t expect any cathols in here to step up and correct you. That would show honesty. I don’t even expect you, sister ginny, to say …oops, I messed up. Do you make this stuff up as you go? Or are you truly thick as a brick.
Oh Jesus couldn’t have meant call no one father because he told us to call god our father. Your mind has gone bye bye. Do I have to spell it out? I guess I will….Jesus said call no man on this earth your father. Jesus gave us the Our Father in heaven prayer. Do you see where your logic went south? Our father is in heaven. But Jesus said …..call no man on this earth Father. Is it possible for you to see the difference? I doubt it. You like the rest of your cathol commrads will say anything to justify false catholic practices. Calling men Father, repeating prayer, bowing befor the works of their hands, worshiping the creature more than the creator.
Good sister ginny, id love to see your explanation for why the catholic church makes and has its flock bowing befor the works of their hands. I trust it will be as good as you call no man father fiasco. God bless. Bosco the Great (;-D
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Fiascoing right along……..go back and read what I wrote. I said Jesus said call no man Father, meaning do not deify men which was popular among the religions at that time, first and foremost being the Roman who did deify the Caesar and even burned incense to his likeness as if to a god! THAT is what Jesus meant and that is what I said. I also used the Our Father as an example because your distorted interpretation of the Scripture is about using a word to express the paternity of a person and as everyone with half a brain knows, this statement is an attack on the Priesthood as if Jesus meant not to call Priests Father as we do. That is a distortion brought about my those who cherry pick over the Scriptures for one purpose only: to refute catholic teaching. I’ve presented some of the apologetic regarding this well-know attack. It is a falsehood and a distortion of Truth. So, Bosco, did Jesus mean not to deify men like the Caesar was deified by calling them Father meaning the Creator in Heaven, or something else? Choice is yours. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Call no man on this earth Father
Seems plain to me.
Do not bow down thyself befor graven images
Sounds plain to me.
But you’ve got wonderful reasons why its great to do these things.
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chalcedon451 said:
There’s one from me on this coming up later today. A question for you Bosco. You have admitted that sometimes you look with lust at women. Have you plucked out your right eye because it offended you? If not, why not? The Bible is clear.
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Bosco the Great said:
I bet when you see a girl that looks pretty to you that you think to yourself how good that looks. Its human nature. A lady tried to start a conversation with me a few months ago, but I said hello back and then went my way because she didn’t appeal to me. Everyone knows what they like. I would have to pluck out both eyes, not just the right eye.
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, on the way you read the Bible, I’d expect you to have just one eye.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Since you aren’t satisfied yet I will gently tell you that there are 144 places in the New Testament where men are referred to as “father.” Um, are they all wrong? For instance, St. Paul refers to himself as a spiritual father to the Corinthians and says as much in 1 Cor. 4:15 Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Is St. Paul incorrect to refer to himself in such a way? Surely this cannot be so, yet your narrow interpretation of “call no man father,” would seem to directly contradict St. Paul’s referring to himself as a spiritual father and guide to the Church in Corinth he and a few others fostered and taught. Hello?!??? Then I can point to St. Paul, the Apostle, speaking to St. Timothy as his own son, as he is Timothy’s father in Christ Jesus – 1 Tim. 1:18 I entrust this charge to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophetic words once spoken about you. Through them may you fight a good fight. Now we all know St. Timothy wasn’t St. Paul’s biological child, so what does this mean? Spiritual fatherhood, which is the exact reason we call our Priests Father still. It is a two thousand year old Tradition which is Biblically supported. Finally, then I’ll let you off the hook Bosco cause it is obvious you only use your Bible for cherry pies, I give you 1 Tim. 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man, but appeal to him as a father. Treat younger men as brothers, Now, seeing this verse, it is obvious that there is even another reason to call men father, that is to show honor and love to one’s elders and in such a way so as to honor one’s Father in Heaven by keeping the Command to honor one’s own father and mother. This is the love we have for the Father, that is to keep His Commands and His Commandments are not burdensome. Choice once again is yours Bosco. Show God you love Him by keeping His Commandments. Honor your father and mother by showing respect to your elders, both in a lay way and also your spiritual fathers in Christ Jesus by calling your own Priest, Father. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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chalcedon451 said:
Ginny – good points – my post today deals with this.
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Bosco the Great said:
Not one of them tell the people to call them father when addressing them. Not one. Nice try though. God bless. Bosco the Great (;-D
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chalcedon451 said:
I have a post coming up on this later this week. Bosco will ignore it as it shows he is wrong.
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Bosco the Great said:
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Ah, I see. You are going to prove ME wrong or this saying of Jesus.? Jesus said it. So how am I wrong? I just believe it, even though Im guilty of disobeying it. I called my father Daddy. I was ignorant of Jesus command.
When Jesus said this, he was being harassed by the religious leaders, who like titles like this. I hope you mention this little fact when explaining how wrong I am.
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chalcedon451 said:
Read the post, Bosco.
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ginnyfree said:
Awwww…come on, Bosco. I did a good job on that one. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello Bosco. Even the devil can quote Scriptures. And he did. It means exactly what I said it meant: do not deify any man on earth and do not elevate any man, or woman for that matter, to a deity and give them worship for it is an abomination to the Lord. Many religions do. The early Christians did as Jesus said and when the Romans tried to force them to practice their religion and burn incense to the images they kept of their Caesars, it cost them their lives. They were Martyred for keeping Jesus’ words to call no man Father. We know perfectly well what it means. You remain in denial even after I’ve taken my time to show you the correct usage of the term by St. Paul, the Apostle, as he refers to himself as a spiritual father and guide to the Church at Corinth. This is the Biblical support for our two thousand year old Tradition of calling our spiritual fathers, Father. But you don’t have to Bosco if you don’t want to. Jesus doesn’t force Himself on anyone. But if I were you…………….God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
That’s shabby. That’s the same weak excuse the catholic church uses for graven images. I guess its a generic excuse.
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