The Pharisees Question Jesus (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
I’m going to have to be careful here and not paint with too broad a brush but, I do want to address the subject from a couple of angles.
First, AATW works because, under the Chatelaine’s tutelage, we have learned to defend our various beliefs strongly, and yet to do so without making personal attacks, except for a couple of commenters. I suspect we, all, often bite our tongues. What we have found of course is that we have far more in common than divides us. I personally despise personal attacks (although I occasionally slip into them as well) as the last resort of the man that has no facts.
In mentioning her own position to try to make a point about law and mercy, it was probably inevitable that Jess would get some comments which emphasised the former; it is one of the eternal tensions in our faith. Jesus had some hard words for those who thought that man was made for the law; he had some hard words for those who thought he had abolished the law, too. Lutherans of my vintage tend not to ask ‘what would Jesus do?’ as easily as a younger generation, but I may not be alone here in thinking that some of the reactions to Jess’ situation over-harsh, legalistic, and even of the Pharisees.
As I have told Jess, “Get thee to a nunnery” may have been appropriate once, a thousand years ago, in an age of arranged marriages, and life expectancies on the 40s or less. It is simply wrong now. One thing is the practicality, while Jess’ Anglican (and my Lutheran) churches do have monastic institutions, they are rare. The other thing is, she was sinned against, she is the victim.
Do we not temper the wind to the shorn lamb? How does the current Roman Catholic practice help her? It seems to me long on sanction and short on common sense. One option is she denies she was ever in something called a ‘valid’ marriage, although as it was an Anglican marriage and the RCC does not recognise Anglican orders, by what twist of legalism does the RCC suddenly insist it has the right to judge Jess’ marriage?
And now Catholic doctrine would take the victim and confine her for a life sentence, either cloistered, or living without a partner. There are several problems with this:
- It is unjust, she has done nothing to merit punishment, except to refuse to lie to God and man. It is very simply blaming the victim. We all know better than that.
- It unjustly reduces her life choices, being called to monastic service is a very high calling, if you have that call, otherwise it is likely to be seen as a punishment, for what? Trusting someone.
- Along the same lines, our economies are such that it is difficult to live very well on one income, and you would condemn her to that, without cause.
- And for that matter, although not a factor in this case, if there were children, you would condemn them to grow up in a one parent family, which has many times been proven to be far less efficacious for raising children.
While I agree that many of our church processes are far too liberal, and should be reformed, they should not punish the innocent, that was not what Christ taught us, indeed he taught us to forgive the guilty.
While I have great respect for the Catholic Church, the legalistic method they take in cases like this is simply wrong, and is completely unjustifiable in my mind.
As Romans 13:10 tells us:
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
All Along the Watchtower 
“. . . she denies she was ever in something called a ‘valid’ marriage . . .”
That is simply incorrect and not what the RCC teaches. If you are getting your RCC teachings from QVO be a little wary.
The annulment process, as I spoke of before is more a process of healing than anything else, if one has the proper attitude and understands what, in fact the RCC is basing the annulment on and one understands the difference between ‘natural’ and ‘sacramental’ marriage. For the Church which has raised natural marriage to a sacrament has the right and the obligation to examine any of its sacraments to make sure that all of the necessary elements were necessary for it to be a sacrament. Who else would do so.
The RCC cannot advise one outside its fold who does not hold with the teachings of the Catholic Faith and the assurance that the Church has such a right. For if it is thought that this is just man-made legalism, then there is no healing to be sought. So if you are on the outside looking in, you say ‘legalism’ and if you are on the inside you bring your hurt and your doubts to the Church and let Her decide once and for all whether this needs be carried alone or if you allow the healing to take place.
But, as you say, Jess is an Anglican. Her marriage is accepted as are all marriages as being a valid natural marriage by the RCC and until prove otherwise is even considered a sacramental marriage. Were she Catholic or becoming Catholic, the process would soon uncover if it was or was not what constitutes the fundamental elements of the sacrament (not some legalistic mumbo-jumbo) that has been thrown about so much here recently. That is not how it works.
I dare say that you will also find your share of resources and helps which brings much compassion to these situations. Many are saying, untruly, that their church offers mercy and the RCC offers legalism. Not true. But I blame no one. Not many Catholics truly understand the process or the governance that the Church must, if asked, provide to keep all of her sacraments secure and preserve them intact. It is the same for Holy Matrimony.
LikeLike
Actually, Servus, she and I both picked that up from you. In our churches Marriage is also a sacrament and we feel much the same. Her point, and it is mine as well, is that neither of us will state that we were not in a proper marriage, we were, whether our partners were, may be a different matter.
By definition, annulment means that it didn’t exist, although your comment above puts a somewhat different light on it.
And that’s the thing, we are not attacking the church, we think it wrong here, perhaps but for the right reasons, I don’t (and I doubt Jess does either) so much object to the process as the outcome. All we’d like to say is yes, the marriage existed in our minds and hearts, but for cause (which is important) my partner killed it.
The day is not coming soon when I turn to QVO as a spiritual advisor.
LikeLike
You don’t have to say you weren’t in a proper marriage – if you mean a natural marriage. But you have not the authority nor does she to tell the Church what constitutes a Catholic sacrament. That is purely the responsibility of the Church and the elements they have always maintained must exist to make it so.
Annulment does not mean that it didn’t exist. It means that the rite of marriage did not meet all the requirements set forth by the Church to meet the demands of a sacrament in the Church. Therefore the parties receive a decree of nullity concerning only the RCC sacrament.
So, your questions and your doubts are widespread and the most asked questions that my wife receives in these proceedings. These are the misgivings that most see in the notion of nullity. I am now getting to areas that are far beyond my understanding and far beyond what I need or want to know. My wife, however, deals with these things on a weekly basis. If my friend Steve (who comments here sporadically) were reading (he and his wife came into the Church some years ago) and they went through the process and he could give us a better understanding as to how his wife viewed the process. It would be interesting. But though we never spoke of it, I am sure that there was healing that took place and his was one of the longest I have witnessed (3 years) due to hiccups in getting all the records and information needed.
Glad about the last for mercy seems to have taken a vacation in his way of reading and interpreting things. 🙂
LikeLike
That is valid enough, and of course, our churches do the same, it is necessary.
You, I suspect, especially with your wife’s input (always necessary in my mind, anyway) 🙂 know as much of this as any layman. Perhaps we could convince you to post on it at some point.
This is, in my experience, given what you say, a very common misconception about your church, and I think many of us know lapsed Catholics from what is perhaps a misunderstanding, indeed some are in our churches but what is far worse, some have unchurched themselves.
Indeed, more like a very long sabbatical 🙂
In truth, he is a valid reminder of why the Reformation happened.
LikeLike
I would that my wife would post, but God bless her, she is so busy these days that she gets home late about 3 nights a week and is often called off to do ‘church stuff’ on many weekends as well.
I do not want to sound like an expert and don’t feel qualified to delve into particulars except to state what I have here in the reply boxes. Other than that are only my personal thoughts on spiritual aspects of dealing with these issues. So probably best we leave it here for now.
My thoughts, advice or even consolation would probably be best suited to emails and probably for the deeper questions the more suitable thing would be emails with my wife.
You are right also when say many lapsed Catholics (and even practicing ones) do not understand the most basic principles of marriage. It is sad and tied, once again, to the lack of good formation that is the earmark for the last 50 years; sigh.
Anyway, this is much of what I wanted to relate to Jess and this post offered me the opportunity to give some facts here that I may not have gotten in any other way. Thanks for that, NEO. 🙂 I’m sure we all want to do whatever we can to ease her pain. And even with the misinformation going about the intentions all seem to be the same. We here at AATW have a lot of compassion for our dear hostess.
LikeLike
That’s fair enough, my friend. No one should push us beyond where we are comfortable, and I had no intention of such.
You and Jess, can work that out if you guys wish, I’ll withdraw at this point.
And that last was part of the point to the post, I was deeply saddened, and yes angered, by some responses to hers, and wished to publicly offer my shoulder, and was quite sure others did as well.
She is a very special lady who in no sense deserves abuse, from anyone. 🙂
LikeLike
Compassion is a mark of those here who have tried to sincerely help another wounded soul. We old-timers always carry around our battle scars and are usually quick to offer support. This is a pretty nice Christian community and this is one of the earmarks of our response to Christ. 🙂
LikeLike
All very true.
You know it strikes me, and I think I may have told Jess this, as I get older, and deal more with the mess of the world, I find that while while there may not be “50 shades” there is indeed a lot of gray out there. People doing what seems right to them, that for many reason may not be thought through.
When I was a young (and even not so young) I tended to scoff and look askance at them but I find more and more that I understand how it happens, and am far more empathetic.
None of which should be construed to mean I condone doing wrong, I don’t. But I increasingly realize that we, all of us, see through a glass darkly, and do wrong, even as we try to do right. And that, I suppose, is another purpose of AATW, it has become rather an ecumenical council of elders, for us. It is indeed a very nice Christian community. 🙂
LikeLike
Amen to that brother and to the notion that fire and brimstone is often transformed into a living flame of love as we progress in our spirituality. 🙂
LikeLike
and Amen 🙂
LikeLike
Precisely. That is the point of a Church Tribunal to ensure, in fact, that all the elements were present that need be. That is solely the realm of the Church to investigate and decide upon.
LikeLike
Great post. I think we must temper our discernment with simple common sense and not necessarily from the dictates of old men that live outside of the common realities through which lay people must navigate. They seem to have a rule for every this or that none of which will effect my personal road to salvation. A church as guide not a condemning oligarchy. Quite apparently the same Gospel speaks to all of us in different ways.
LikeLike
There can be a lot of truth in that, Carl. And that is why so many of us rely on the early fathers of the church, they had, one would think, a clearer view.
LikeLike
I cannot refute that the benefit of their wisdom must be considered as you indicate despite my minimization and contempt for that tradition stuff.
LikeLike
The way I put it usually is this:
Experience is the best teacher,
A wise man learns from the experience of others,
It hurts less.
LikeLike