There’s an old Brechtian line to the effect that ‘the people have failed us, time to get a new people’, and it comes to mind almost every time I read anything on Brexit or Trump. The liberal elite feel that they have been failed by the electorate. Rowan Williams, a thinker for whom I have a great deal of time, has even recently suggested that a ‘humane alternative’ might be needed; wisely, he does not suggest how any polity might move from Mass democracy to something less risky. He does suggest, and here he has a major point, that given the complexity and deep-rooted nature of the problems we face, it is unlikely that Trump can deliver what he has promised. Here in the UK we are currently undergoing an unreal debate in which certain newspapers simply refuse to accept any ‘economic facts’ they do not like; but Government borrowing goes up all the same, and real wages fall in value. When we start rejecting ‘facts’ because they are incompatible with a particular world-view we have entered the world of ‘Newspeak’ with a vengeance.
The notion that something called ‘education; can solve this problem can, as Williams points out, become yet another hostage to fortune if what is being said is that young people have to be taught to think the same way. It leads to lurid headlines about the ‘snowflake generation’, but under that, young people remain what they have always been, rebellious and sceptical about the settled convictions of the older generation. Williams suggests that the sort of education that matters is real life experience of politics at the local level, and he is right, but as anyone who has ever been involved at that level knows, it takes a lot of time and attracts very little interest from the particular electorate involved unless it involves something controversial.
We come back to the issue of shared values. Human beings need to belong to something, to have an allegiance to someone of something higher than the self. In our secularising Western world, it seems as though increasingly that ‘something’ is the nation state. It is no accident that Trump’s slogan was ‘make America great again’, or that Brexiteers emphasised the nation-state and the threat to it from supra-national entities. It looks quite like the same impulse that gave rise to the Protestant revolt against the Catholic Church in England and on the Continent – and we see it in the Catholic Church currently with some of the attitudes toward a Pope whose views seem too aligned with those of a certain generation of liberal Catholicism.
Our hearts, St Augustine told us, will be restless until they find their goal in Christ. It is not accidental that at a time when the great god of the State has been shown to be the falsest of idols – unable to deliver its promises of prosperity and safety from the cradle to the grave’ – that its devotees should turn to find substitutes. But these, too, will prove false idols. And so on it goes, and the gods of the copybook headings will have their revenge.
Sorry, my friend, I like Rowan Williams nearly as much as you do. But here, he shows much ignorance and comes off like a Guardian columnist. He knows better than this.
“We have seen elsewhere how extremists have been elected with the optimistic collusion or tolerance of those who believe that such people can be “managed” in office; and we have seen them discover, bitterly and too late, their error.”
Yes, we know, we’ve been paying for that error for the last 8 years.
In any case, I can’t remember who said it, but with Trump, there is a category error, in our mind. Europe and our news media take him literally, but not seriously, while we take him seriously, but not literally. And besides, unless one is looking for it, elsewhere than the media, one hasn’t a clue what he plans, one must listen to the man, not to the media, which is 98% Bushwah.
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Good comment Neo. This repudiation of majority rule when you lose seems to me very dangerous. Do he and others not realise that when, as will no doubt happen, the liberal side wins, these words will be used to justify not accepting their legitimacy.
By the way, my thanks to you (and Nicholas) for keeping the show on the road this week. It’s been a busy one from my point of view – too much so.
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Thanks. I do see that, and yes, it is. It scares me badly, as did a lot of what the Remain side said. And that’s the problem, to stop our side from using the methods now, that were used in the last administration. So far, so good, but it will be a continuing problem.
You’re quite welcome, speaking for myself, I try to do my part. Seems endemic in that job, of course it is often so for the competent.
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I also sent you a post last week, my friend, though I fear you were too busy to read it. Perhaps in the future I should just put it up but I am usually afraid that I will step on someone elses post if I do that.
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Just responded – plan to use it tomorrow – it’s a good one 🙂
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I don’t know if it’s the right methodology, but what I’ve been doing is to watch posts, and if nothing turns up by eight or so (CST) go ahead. I got stomped once, and simply pulled mine back to drafts. C is so busy these days, I think we have to help out here a bit more individually. Not as well organized but one does what one must.
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Understood. I will see if the spirit might move me to write a bit more.
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Good. A lot of days, I have enough trouble writing for mine, which is why I don’t post more here, although I’d like to.
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Many thanks, guys, much appreciated.
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No problem, I suspect we both find it worthwhile. 🙂
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As I do – busy week this last one, likely to be followed by another
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I’ll keep my eyes open then for “suitable”topics.
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Thank, Neo.
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Quite welcome, C. 🙂
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This ‘populism’ angle to Trump and Brexit is largely a myth of the elite and tied to the populist uprisings in totalitarian states that led to abysmal leadership in agents such as Hitler, Castro, Stalin or Mao. It is overworn and quite frankly naive to misunderstand the people of these United States in such terms. We could say that ‘populism’ gave us our founding fathers and first President as well I suppose but what a world of difference is the mood and the almost DNA inscribed will of the people that the elites do not get and never will. We, like Christianity itself have been counted out over and over again in our histories (though this nation is still a babe in terms of other nations). There is a character in both Christianity and in the US that can at times be stated as a ‘can do’ attitude and at times a ‘must do’ attitude. We are a nation that primarily wants to take the government off of the backs of people rather than have the government act as a nanny or Santa Clause for the people. We want to do things ourselves and we detest the sad ‘newly imported’ globalist views that we are too stupid to succeed on our own and that we should simply dissolve bortders or allow ourselves to be manipulated by the age old offer of bread and circuses of the Caesars.
And yes we see this is Catholocism especially in our day: it mimics quite humiliatingly the hubris that says new is better, no boundaries are needed or accepted, that our forefathers were a myth and that a ‘new awakening’ led by those who would sell destruction and chaos as a good thing as they do with the tearing down of societies and cultures whilst proclaiming that multiculturalism or ecumenism is producing a world order that we just can’t see yet: one where we are all the same grey color and produce the same blah results so the we all meld together as a new super-colony of ants in an ant-farm to be managed by the hands of some invisible elites who know better than our fathers in the faith and the founding fathers of our nations.
How much that might still be found in the individual nations of the EU you might have to judge yourself. But I do think that many people are tired of being regulated, coerced and managed by those who hold values less sacred than do those who still have a memory of what it means to be ‘united’ and ‘victorious’ even when we are being plucked quite miraculously from the jaws of defeat. The hand of God is the only elite to which we are required to bend our knees and bow our heads and the media hasn’t a clue that there is enough of that faith (as small as a mustard seed) left in this world to resist their temptations to unloose the evils of our age and bind the good. But that is where history finds us. I am not going to count out a coming correction to both the Faith and these United States to break these chains of restraint and once again do the impossible though the odds seem to highly favor a total defeat.
God bless America and God bless and safeguard the Catholic Church.
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Only in America do we tell the government, “Get off my lawn!”, I fear. It’s what made us what we are, and will remake us in our own image along with Christianity.
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Yes, it reminds me constantly that God’s Law is inscribed on our hearts. It is truly a sense of what is right and wrong and what is good and evil that propels us. When evil does what it always does [take a good and then distort it], things go badly. But in time we do see that evil was being sold as good and once again take up the banner of Christ and the flag of the United States which stands for that God-given freedom and liberty we cherish and throw off the shackles of licentiousness and false charity.
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If you have not listened to this podcast by Fr. Z about the 4 Cardinals Dubia and the response by Bp. Athanasius Schneider, you should: http://www.wdtprs.com/podcazt/16_11_24.mp3
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“the great god of the State has been shown to be the falsest of idols – unable to deliver its promises ”
https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/.22b1XOBEfkVg7Y7wbEBUQ–/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MQ–/http://slingstone.zenfs.com/offnetwork/7f9449e9e0e5ccf718e76fceee8dbad6
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/dc2ca0d6-6f7d-3e7a-b38a-221676fc2a43/timothy-freyer-named.html
The cult of personality.
Idolatry is its highest form.
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I would add that the other problem, which you have touched upon, is that those who say ‘there must be a better way’ and in the name of that consider restricting the electorate are engaging in political fantasy. In order to water down democracy you would first of all need to win an election on the basis of doing this, then pass the necessary laws. After which, you would need to make sure that your sort of people remained in power all the time. The first part of the programme would doom anyone running on it to political irrelevance, which is good. I was struck reading Richard Evans’ excellent book on the origins of Nazi Germany that one of the reasons why the Weimar Republic failed was that almost all the political parties eventually gave up on democracy. And of course a full-blown totalitarian can do dictatorship a lot better than well-meaning liberals.
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Very rue, Gerard. Worrying though that those who claim to be so democratic should turn on it when it is not persuaded by their arguments.
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That makes sense, and was probably likelier in Weimar, since there was little tradition of democracy. What worries me in our countries are those that by their action besmirch the name of democracy amongst those with little interest i government.
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The fevered political and philosophical climate reminds me of the English Civil war, which was the birth of the Enlightenment in our country. Hobbes and Locke have never seemed more relevant. I fear that we are gnawing at the roots of law and order itself, for these are founded on principles of agreement. If we fail to stand by our agreements, and if, which is worse, we adopt relativism, then there is no hope of getting out of the rabbit-hole. Reason can only go so far when it works in the dark; in the absence of God’s illumination, man becomes bestial.
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A state that casts off the sweet yoke of Christ will have to bear the heavy yoke of Satan.
Democracy is one legitimate mode of government, if it is a democracy under Christ.
But Secular Democracy means giving equal rights to error and truth, and uncrowning Christ.
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The rights that people cling to – whence come they? If people will admit of the “grounding problem” of ethics, then they must do the same for rights. If our rights are to be considered “inalienable”, then must they not be innate? If innate, then how innate? If there be no God how can they be inalienable? There must be a God who bestows such rights, such dignity upon the human person.
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Precisely.
Deviant opinions may deserve toleration; but they do not deserve a place at high table, such as they enjoy in this country. Where you once admit the nose, the rest of the camel surely follows.
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All true, but not quite sure what, practically, would by way of reforming things? Hope you & the family are well?
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Very well thank you. And you / yours?
The reform must come from conversion. Either conversion, or God will wipe the slate clean and start again; the heathen will inherit our patrimony, just as we inherited that of the Jews.
It would help if the Church’s magisterium were not presently so utterly dysfunctional. But probably there must first come a great chastisement.
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Glad to hear it. Good, thank you. I agree, and we can only await the end of this papacy with prayer and fortitude.
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It will be extremely interesting if the 4 Cardinals’ initiative goes all the way.
It may very well. If he refuses to answer it, that may in itself be sufficient to declare formal heresy.
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Personally I think there are a number of things we can do practically – but I do not view democracy as a kind of “holy Grail”, since the Church is technically a theocracy and will inherit the nations.
A) Take up your suggestion of getting more people involved in local politics. This will require radical reform along Athenian lines with either penalties and/or liturgies imposed on those who do not voluntarily hold a role.
B) Reform the rules regarding contributions to the political parties.
C) Make more use of referenda.
D) Create a series of mandatory public debates discussing the foundations of our democratic values and practices to be held and observed every year (equivalent to the Americans’ Thanksgiving).
E) Make democratic civics a formal part of education, and ease the burden of teachers by either cutting back certain subjects or reforming the syllabi by removing content – which may become part of coursework or extra credit exams.
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All excellent suggestions, Nicholas.
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Thank you. Well, alas the hard part is getting support for them and getting them implemented – but I would have thought the teaching unions would support such measures. Heaven knows we are all groaning under these expanded specifications.
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One might have thought so … 🙂
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I am generally in favour with this.
However, what you’re driving at would be something radical and new for the UK.
On the point of referenda, I don’t think they’re desirable; they create opportunities for demagoguery, and are only useful where a proposed measure manifestly requires that kind of a mandate.
Representative democracy could work fine – so long as the representatives were truly representative. Suggestion: make it like jury duty, and do it by lot.
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Yes, that is what I was thinking – the way the demes, prytanies, boule, and ecclesia work. That would be impractical for national government as a first move, but would work for local. If successful, a version could then be applied to the national level. I believe we would require a formal constitution, however, to limit the powers of these bodies regarding our rights.
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