It is characteristic of our society in the West, and symptomatic of what is wrong with it that a group of ‘prominent Catholics’ in San Francisco should have taken out an expensive advertisement in a newspaper to criticise their Archbishop for reiterating Catholic teaching. Even the inimitable satirist, Bruvver Eccles, had trouble making an extremely funny post as weird as the original. The Archbishop’s reiteration of Catholic teaching on matters such as same-sex marriage and women and the ministry seems to have upset a set of wealthy Californians who, having funded pro-abortion candidates for years unhindered by the diocese, have clearly decided it is time that the Pope wised up and listened to the ‘prominent people’ of the diocese rather than all that old stuff the Church has taught from the beginning.
It would be tempting to respond in kind and call for them to be disciplined, but, of course, so wide are they of the mark about the Church that that will not happened, and many less prominent people will be upset that it has not; how, they will wonder, can people do this sort of thing with no consequences? The consequences are there and will be for them until they repent. The Church does not need to follow the example of outraged liberals who cannot bear to hear any view other than their own in the public sphere. It teaches the truth, its people need to hear more of that, some of us think, but even if every ‘prominent person’ in the entire world said that the teaching of the Church was wrong, it would prove nothing we don’t already know, and it would change nothing: fallen mankind seeks to place its wisdom in front of God’s, and that is as destructive now as when our first parents listened to the serpent.
It may well be that many badly-catechised cradle Catholics do not understand the teachings of the Church, and are correspondingly outraged when they realise that they do not support the secular ‘wisdom’ of the age. It is, no doubt, kind of them to offer their poorly-formed consciences as guides to the successor of St Peter, but they might be better off finding a church which agrees with them in the first place; there are, after all, enough to choose from.
Authority in the Church inheres in the Magisterium. The Pope, as head of the College of Bishops and successor of St Peter, ‘possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church’. When the College of Bishops is united with the Popes, then their pronouncements, even if not declared to be so, have the force of infallibility (CCC 891); without the Pope, the College’s pronouncements have no authority (CCC 883). Their first job is to preach the Gospel of Christ to all men (CCC 888) and if the ‘prominent people’ of San Francisco reject that, it is no surprise – the rich and powerful have always had more trouble with repentance than the poor and lowly, although all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
What the Pope and Bishops say when united commands ‘religious assent’ from the faithful (CCC 892), and if the latter cannot agree with it, then they should seek the Sacrament of reconciliation and they should pray, because they have sworn to believe all that the Church teaches. This is hard in our society, perhaps harder than ever before as the relativistic spirit of an age of zero deference to authority nowhere prepares our stubborn and sinful natures for obedience. But that is a cross we have to carry, and if it is the only way of breaking our hearts, which are hard as stone, to receive the Word of the Lord, then so be it.
The ‘prominent Catholics’ of San Francisco would benefit from less time proclaiming their position, and more time in prayer and study of the faith once received.
Servus Fidelis said:
Sadly, the days of excommunication that would bring a King Henry IV to penitence, fasting and wearing a hair shirt outside the Church during a blizzard is over. Once upon a time excommunication meant something . . . in this age the few theologians who have received such treatment did not even bat an eye . . . but perhaps it would serve the laity well by providing us with an understanding that our separation from articles of faith has consequences and that they have effectively rejected Christ and His Church and put their salvation in jeopardy.
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ginnyfree said:
Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Many have left not only fear of God behind, but fear of offending HIm by disobedience in their lives as religious and Priests, both male and female alike. The wisdom that comes with fear of the Lord is a true blessing and one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. If you haven’t got it, then you don’t get it. And perhaps it is this lack of a supernatural gift that prevents them from seeing how ridiculous their “positions” actually are. Without it, they remain blind to much. Just like the song Amazing Grace says, they are blind but they just might someday see. Godbless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
I like the above picture. A catholic priest in front of his god.
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Bosco the Great said:
don’t DWELL ON THE BAD NEWS, REJOICE ON THE GOOD NEWS. a PRIEST WHO ENSLAVED AND KILLED NATIVE AMERICANS IS GOING TO BE CANONIZED. tHANK YOU mARY.
VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican is mounting a campaign to defend an 18th century Franciscan missionary who will be canonized by Pope Francis in the U.S. against protests from Native Americans who have compared his conversion of natives to genocide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/20/vatican-junipero-serra_n_7099656.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
the religion of peace. Or is that Islam? I forget which.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Instead of relying on the yellow journalism of the Huffington Post you might do well to really know something about Junipera Serra.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13730b.htm
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, Bosco, I hope you will follow through by leaving the country and distributing your worldly good to the poor oppressed original natives – or is hypocrisy the way for you?
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Bosco the Great said:
the poor oppressed original natives
Well I guess the wonderful Jesuits came to save the oppressed original natives. Uh, who was oppressing them? They lived with nature off of the land for thousands of years. the Spanish came with their Torquemada’s and guns and changed all that. So tell me the story of how the Jesuits came and saved the natives from oppression. While youre at it, toss in how the Pope saved the Albigensis people for their own good. I could use a feel good story rite now.
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Bosco the Great said:
New Advent hails him as a gentile kind and caring soul. Ah, how nice.
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ginnyfree said:
Yes, Bosco. A mistake no one will ever make about your character, indeed, a “gentle, kind, caring soul….” God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Those natives weren’t poor and oppressed until the Jesuits came and oppressed them and killed them. They were doing just fine.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
“About a decade ago, the Vatican appointed the Rev. John Vaughn, a Franciscan priest at the Santa Barbara Mission, as Serra’s advocate, known officially as the vice postulator — his public relations man.” Los Angeles Times, 1/16/15.
How’s that for embracing secular politics and using the ways of the world ! Much discussion here on how RCC has disdain for this adjustment to congruentize with secular processes and divergent secular ways from doctrine but uses to advantage anyway.
Father Serra accomplished so much good that such overshadows whippings administered to Indians as punishments . One objection from today’s Native Americans in California is that conversion, resettlement, and subsequent evaporation of culture has left Native Americans there to have little proof of their origins to be recognized as legitimate tribes disabling them to qualify for federal and state provisions re their special status re benefits and other legal status. Of course such is not unique and blame cannot be attributed solely to Serra. The evaporation of New World native peoples is part of history, North, Central and South America. The anti Columbus stuff does, however, have a great deal of legitimacy.
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Servus Fidelis said:
This is nothing new or worldly Carl. We have long been careful about whom we bestow the crown of sainthood upon. We supply an advocate for the saint and we also have those who are trying to find reasons not to make them a saint: they used to be called the “Devil’s Advocate.” What it does, hopefully, is to present both sides of the cause being looked at . . . and just like in our courtrooms we respect the verdict that is finally arrived at via the judge.
As to the rest: I suppose I should be suing the states where I lived where the teachers often whipped or slapped or administered corporal punishment. I am the better for it and glad I was disciplined and even more glad that they did not tell my parents who would have given me much worse if they knew what I was up to.
Just be cautious when you hear people relating history according their prejudices. One must also consider what these ‘poor’ indians suffer and what they stand to gain in taxpayer benefits should they convince enough people to climb aboard their agenda wagon. Get ready to dig deeper into your pockets Carl. No mention, of course, how those who were converted (perhaps saved their souls), or how many by learning the culture thrived and left their reservations and got good jobs and assimilated into the general population; that is to say that they don’t remember or care that they have ancestors who were native american indians: they are just plain old Americans. I’m not running around bemoaning that this country was unfair to us German Americans (and they like almost every other immigrant was discriminated against) . . . because we became plain old Americans and have no axe to grind.
Enough of this whining already. It’s the churches fault because I am failing or the country’s fault that I’m poor etc. I’m, quite frankly, sick of it. Get to work and get your hands out of my wallet which is now almost entirely the property of the folks in Washington.
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David B. Monier-Williams said:
Not everyone benefited from being beaten. Mostly, beating some one indicates the lack of options.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I never said beaten, David. Corporal punishment is something that has been done in almost every society since man formed civilized societies. Can you say that it didn’t work really? Are our children better off now than they were in the 50’s? Do they have more respect for adults now and for age and wisdom (a forgotten word from the past)? Are they more morally superior to us since now they regard their own rational (or irrational) mind to decide for themselves?
When I think of beatings, I think of what they did to slaves and the Muslims now do to those who break the Sharia Law. I doubt Junipera Serra can ever be charged with such injustice; he was a man of God . . . as was Christopher Columbus though I don’t want to open up a whole other can of worms.
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Bosco the Great said:
I wasn’t aware of what Columbus did until last Columbus day. he was a devil and was cruel and murderous, him and the Jesuits. This Serra devil should be a catholic saint. His cruelty in the name of god earned him a place in catholic saintdom. Rite next to TTomas More, who strapped people to the rack for owning bibles.
Religions
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Servus Fidelis said:
If you want to sound like you’re a real grownup you might want to quit reading these comic books put together by Catholic haters.
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chalcedon451 said:
Perhaps you should make reparation, Bosco – leave the country?
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Bosco the Great said:
Maybe I should join the catholic church
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Servus Fidelis said:
If you want to save your soul perhaps you should.
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Carl D'Agostino said:
SERV Good remarks all.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Thank you Carl. For in my old age I am even having problems trying to insinuate my values upon those of previous societies. I can no longer look to the Puritans and decry their use of the stock, the pillory, the whipping post or the dunking chair. How can I? They were abiding as best they could to their consciences that were formed by a theology of their day and values that were held by all within their small society. It is enough that God will save those who were wronged and were deserving of a reward. Otherwise, they simply lost their life earlier than they would have and end up suffering more in hell than they did at the hands of stupid or superstitious men.
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chalcedon451 said:
I am quoting what the Catechism says here.
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chalcedon451 said:
But it does say we must give religious assent. We have little in our society which disposes the heart to obedience.
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chalcedon451 said:
Especially the Germans.
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chalcedon451 said:
I read the qualification as applying to the Pope and the bishops together – what think you?
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chalcedon451 said:
Sorry, I am un the catechism.
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chalcedon451 said:
My reading was that the last qualification is right, but it speaks of things appertaining to core teaching or some such formulation – which worried me.
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chalcedon451 said:
Exactly – rather vague given the far-reaching implications.
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chalcedon451 said:
But is it new? Infallibility has always inhered in the papacy on matters of faith and morals, and one could argue that what is new is the way 1871 circumscribes it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Given the last ‘reforms’ God spare us any more such.
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chalcedon451 said:
This, it seems to me, is not a safe time to make such changes.
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chalcedon451 said:
Agreed.
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chalcedon451 said:
Let me think on that one.
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chalcedon451 said:
Hope you all got some sleep 🙂
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chalcedon451 said:
892
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ginnyfree said:
Ahhhh……….more from the man who knows more than the Church on all matters ecclesial! We’ve missed your intelligence. Thanks for sharing. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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ginnyfree said:
Hello QVO. You don’t sound very optimistic or confident, but have you not heard? The Holy Spirit gives a particular charism that prevents such things from happening. Infallibility. This extends to the Sacred Magisterium as well as our Holy Father. What you propose will never happen. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Steve Brown said:
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo!!! Now if only every (good, unashamed, and Catholic) bishop would copy this post, sign his name to it, and demand it to be read in all the parishes in his diocese, then those bishops could claim to have taught his people at least a little about the Catholic faith.
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chalcedon451 said:
Thanks Steve.
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ginnyfree said:
Yeah Jesus! Go team! Isn’t he awesome? He’s got those eyes that look right through you. He’s one of my heros. May Jesus Christ be Praised!!!!!
I’m kinda conservative in that I expect all Catholic teachers to actually teach 100% Catholic teaching and to live faithful Catholic lives worthy of emulation by their students. Anything less is a cheat and a fraud and yes, they should be corrected. disciplined and even let go when they fail to measure up. Not a very popular position these days. Oh well. Too bad. Perhaps if a few more men get brave enough to take on the Liberals and the Progressives and the whole lot of ’em, we will be able be confident that our teachers are ALL teaching 100% Catholic teaching and 100% faithful to the Church and her Magisterium. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
More and more of these catholic teachers are coming out of the closet. Its a growing trend. Its nice to see alittle honesty in that sea of hypocrisy.
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Bosco the Great said:
The recent popes have been real good at hiding their sexuality. My guess is that Bergoglio is a straight.
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