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One of the points Struans makes in his interesting series on theology is that talking about God is something we all do here; I wondered how much talking about him we do elsewhere? One of the dangers with academic theology (and by that I am not saying it should not be there, or criticising it) is that it can lead to the perception that you need a PhD in apologetics to get to Heaven. One of the reasons for the great attractiveness of Christianity to its original adherents was that the Good News could be understood by all, and so radical was it that it arrested your attention, especially if you were on the losing end of the lottery of fate.
It is easy to forget how hierarchical the Roman Empire was. It wasn’t just that women were second-class subjects, it was that most folk were. Society tapered to a pretty narrow pyramid of wealth, power and privilege. Those who were not Roman citizens were barbarians; even those who were, were unevenly divided between those with money and those with not enough. Jewish society was equally stratified, and again, most folk were outside the charmed circle of wealth and power. Christianity said none of this mattered – it didn’t matter if you were slave or free, male or female, Gentile or Jew. Christianity didn’t, of course, abolish these distinctions, it simply said that they did not matter in God’s eyes because we are all his children.
We get some idea from Acts and from the Pauline epistles as to the sort of talking about God that went on back then. It seems to have been a dialogue of joy and amazement. The burden of sin had been lifted from these people, and they were happy. Whatever their lives brought them paled into second place to God’s love. That love formed them into a community bound by loyalty to Jesus and a common sense of being ‘saved’. But such God talk quickly required another sort of God talk.
We are saved, wonderful! In that case, if I am guaranteed everlasting life because I receive the Lord Jesus, I can do as I like. Paul of Tarsus was having none of that, and how right he was, because that sort of belief arises in every generation of Christians. Theologians did not begin a debate about ‘once saved. always saved’, ordinary Christians of the first generation did so, and that meant Paul had to write about it.
We are saved, wonderful! In that case all I need to do is to say I have faith in the Lord Jesus. What’s that? You think I should be doing work with the poor and the dispossessed? You heretic you, you are saying I need to do works to be saved, when the tradition we receive says all I need is to believe in Jesus. Paul of Tarsus was having none of that. Theologians did not begin a debate about faith and works, ordinary Christians of the first generation did so.
We are saved, wonderful! Jesus is the Son of God and died and rose to save me. He sits at the right hand of God. That’s clear enough, he is related to God by being his adopted son, as we shall be. What’s that? You are saying that the Apostle John says He was with God in the beginning and is God? Well, that’s what John says, and if you take passages from elsewhere, it is clear that Jesus is God. How can that be when there is one God not three? Again, it was not theologians who started talking about what became known as the Trinity, it was ordinary Christians. Indeed we’re told that in Constantinople in the age of Nestorius and Alexandria in the age of Athanasius, folk talked about such things at the bakery and in the market.
Now that’s God talk, and here we are, after nearly two thousand years, still at it. Why? Because God is infinite and we are finite, and that message of hope still floods our hearts and leads us to want to know more – and being mankind, we want to discuss it. The Holy Spirit leads us on still.
Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed so, Geoffrey. And over and over again we see the people coming to the wrong conclusions and the responsibility of the leaders of the Church in setting them straight. Is that not what many of Paul’s letters were about: settling disputes? So the Church has a responsibility to answer the questions of the people’s theological musings and without an authoritative voice I wonder how long it would have taken for the Church to disintegrate into loose confederation of differing theologies and beliefs. So when folks complain of all the theological thought (especially that which is now termed dogmatic) it strikes me as foolish to try to dismiss all the questions and all the errors than needed to be addressed by the Church if we were to remain One, Holy, Universal and Apostolic. After all, if from the beginning dissension and confusion among the faithful raised its ugly head, how many rules, regulations and corrections would you expect after 2000 years of this questioning, or theology of the people? Thank goodness, if you accept the authority, it becomes easy. If you trust your own factious opinion, you have errors and countless sects that arise. It is neither easy to hold an institution together over a 2000 year history nor to expect it to remain simplistically understood. Why do we bother with theology if it is not helpful in bringing us to the Christ as He revealed Himself? And that includes that which is implied, not easily understood and mysteries that are still being unfolded in time. We can’t keep inventing answers to questions that have already been definitively answered or we would have time to do little else in life but wander aimlessly from difficulty to difficulty without any hope of actually finding what we might regard as Truth.
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Struans said:
Indeed SF, and that is why the bishops of the church in council need to consult: to ensure truth remains the goal, and not the status of one particular bishop and his organisation who has gone beyond the honour once due and besmirched the status in which his see was once held.
S.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Yes, it is a constant battle in every church, Struans. 🙂
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Struans said:
I’m impressed at the speed of your retort : )
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Servus Fidelis said:
Just sitting at the table with my coffee and laptop reading news and answering any replies that come my way. Its my usual routine. Our time difference makes it work well with the timing of the posts here. 🙂
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Struans said:
Food, faith and friendship: a perfect way to start the day. : )
BTW, out of interest, I hear that the tipping point has been reached for the evangelical brigade in the States, and the number of followers is dropping off. On the ground, does that feel right too?
Thanks,
S.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Struans, it does, but mostly from my reading as I live in the Evangelical South of the U.S. So there are plenty of evangelicals in my particular section of the U.S. and it is difficult to see a huge difference in this area.
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Struans said:
Thanks. Interesting to get first hand views.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Well we have seen the usual independent Baptist Churches and Church of God folks reach their zenith I think. There are already so many of them that you can’t go a mile without finding one. They usually house somewhere between 50 to a 100 people. Lately the advent of the super churches has drawn many of these people away with Churches that house thousands, not to mention the increase in Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Jehovah’s Witnesses and an increasing number of Mormons. The Presbyterian and Methodist denominations seem to be rather static with, perhaps a small reduction of members. So I would expect to see a drop in evangelical numbers as these others gain some footing and draw new members – primarily through marriage to people of other denominations.
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Struans said:
Sounds like you live in deepest Jesusland!
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Servus Fidelis said:
It is. In a way it is rather refreshing after living many years in New York and Boston.
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Struans said:
Sounds like an Irish connection. Part of my ancestry is from the emerald isle: counties Dublin and Cork. Church of Ireland: so proudly Irish yet unionist.
S.
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Servus Fidelis said:
No Irish connections in my family as far as I know: primarily German and English: now there is combination made in hell.
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Struans said:
Not at all. HM The Queen is a fine example of one with such connections.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Might be an ancient connection with my family which would earn me more respect abroad. 🙂
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
It is indeed, and yes, the only reason to bother with theology is to estabish good answers to questions.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I would hope that it leads us to accept Truth and prevent us from chasing after mirages of our own making.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I hope it does so.
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Father Bosco said:
mY CHILDREN, Only the catholic magisterium knows what god thinks and says. No other religion has the authority to do this. Only cathoics go to heaven. Only the catholic priests can bring god down from heaven. Only catholic priests can forgive sins. The Pope is gods only rep on earth. The catholic church is the only true universal holy apostolic pure adn white church. The popes speaks infallibly, Jesus founded the wonderful catholic church. Jesus must be proud of the catholic church, because its pure and white. Go in peace my children
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