Today is the fourth time I have witnessed the Precious Blood spilled on the floor during Communion at my parish (Novus Ordo, of course). Yet it is neither a problem of sufficient worry to stop Communion under both kinds nor the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, presumably because The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass would take too long without them: after all they have to get back home and watch a football game. No prob.
Of course, in this enlightened age of total disrespect, lack of solemnity and disbelief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) it is no longer a big deal. Since it is a simple a symbolic meal it takes on the same concern that one might have in cleaning up a spilt glass of wine at a cocktail party. ‘Let’s get the club soda out so that we don’t stain our new, expensive carpets.’ Who notices or really cares?
And of course since 99.9 percent of the congregation receives the Body of Christ in their hands, as though they find themselves worthy to do so, we have, like everyone else in Novus Ordo land, quit using servers with patens to prevent the Hosts and particles from falling to the carpet. But that’s no problem; isn’t that what they made vacuum cleaners for, after all? So nobody minds.
Now since I became a Catholic I have found personally 3 consecrated Hosts which were discarded. I suppose the people simply palmed them and went back to their pews. They left one in a hymnal and another under the pew and the third one I found under a bush right outside the door to the parish. I have found others, but at different parishes. But hey, they only think of it as a symbol these days (the Pew poll saying that only 30% believe in transubstantiation); no biggie. Why all the fuss?
The parishioners don’t care, the pastor doesn’t seem to care and I guess I’m not supposed to care either. Like I said in my last post, ‘what does it matter, and who cares’? I’ve talked and pleaded until I’m blue in the face and they think that I’m the nut. But those who view the Sacrifice of the Mass as a symbolic meal seem to find no problem with these things. I wonder if they were at the foot of the Cross with Our Lady and St. John if they would have composed themselves this way and simply looked upon our Lord hanging and bleeding from the Cross as a symbol too. Who’s to say?
Your taking this too seriously. People do their best but in the end it’s just an act of reliving imaginations. They are giving it its proper place of insignificant words.
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Sorry Jim, but an atheist really has not understanding about this subject at all . . . nor do those who simply consider the traditional teachings of the Eucharist as a symbol or as ‘transfinalization’. Heretics, apostates and those who are in a perpetual state of invincible ignorance are useless in evaluating what has taken place in the last 50 years.
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Perhaps there is a new, new order on the horizon? I understand it perfectly…that is why I left
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I’m afraid you don’t have a clue though in your in arrogance you seem to have given yourself an eye test and graded yourself with 20/20 vision.
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You’re judgement is incorrect. If you don’t even know my scholarly and religious histories and you make such sweeping generalizations about me, I can only guess your Catholicism is as equally biased.
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Well you seem to think that you are a scholar, that’s for sure. But then today, everybody thinks they’re a scholar. The only thing that is more irritating today than an ‘expert’ in theology is an ‘expert’ in liturgy. It reminds me of the old nursery rhyme:
A diller, a dollar,
A ten o’clock scholar,
What makes you come so soon?
You used to come at ten o’clock,
And now you come at noon.
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I was just reading Ratzinger’s exegesis on the Temptation of Christ today. The second temptation in Matthew’s Gospel is a debate between Theologians. An interesting observation. Especially in light with the debate in the Church both doctrinally and liturgically.
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As it is all make believe, why on earth are you so upset for?
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Atheists have no place in this commentary. Wasting your breath which God so graciously endowed you with,
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You are getting upset about dogma. Dogma invented by the Church.
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I suppose you would expect to win a debate with St. Augustine, St. Thomas or the other Doctors of the Church?
Invention indeed, if you mean ‘inspired’ or ‘found’ with the aid of God’s Grace.
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Liturgy merely cements imagination through repetition.
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Well as Pascal said: “It is superstition to found your hopes on ceremonies, but is pride to refuse to submit to them.”
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It’s a nice twist of words that the founders were pretty keen on. Condemn pride and give honor to faith, which is merely stubborn pride in one’s belief without evidence. Faith is the ultimate display of pride. Another favorite is “the natural man” being an enemy to god, but the natural man is actually the believing man. Christianity gives high praise to mankind for doing what they can’t help but do…believe. And that pretty much seals the deal when attached to the reward system for obedience. Gullible since birth and deceived at every turn, we believe nearly anything. A twitter study of 2 million tweets showed lies and fake news trace 70x deeper into the threads than truth. People will pay dearly for hope after they’re convinced they need it.
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So the witnesses of those who walked with Christ and also witnessed His resurrection and then His being with them after His death were full of pride? How stupid they were to believe what they witnessed and how stupid to preach the risen Christ when it was an almost certain death sentence . . . and not a single dissenter amongst those who were there . . . and even Judas is a witness and killed himself for his treason; knowing that he had betrayed His Lord and His God.
You are a scholar and speak of Twitter and conspiracy theories about peoples gullibility when you have no faith in even the witnesses of the Life, Death and Resurrection of our Lord. And if you are so skeptical, why then and how then do you function in life if you cannot believe anyone or any news. I would suspect that you pick and choose and I am certain that you pridefully have decided on your own what you will believe and what you don’t. I agree that there is that which is believable and credible and that which is not. We all must make that decision but you also know that someone is right and someone is wrong. or both are wrong or both are somehow compatible and partially right.
As I say, this post is nonsense to you, so why do you even comment. Jim, come clean and tell me what your objective is in commenting on that which you ignorant of due to your unbelief?
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Somebody stated there were 500 witnesses. Can you name one? You can say anything you want and people will believe it. Joseph Smith saw God and ancient angels and it was reported by hundreds in attendance at the kirtland temple. Do you believe them too? There is another side to that story as there is with the 500.
I don’t really have an objective but to say what I see. Nicolas and Phillip welcomes me to comment. If that doesn’t suit your echo chamber I’ll leave you be. You are more than welcome to challenge anything I write and would welcome the correction. Faith does not afford that. I do think you’re taking the best efforts of those in your church too critically.
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Well, you are in a very small minority around the world; but then I suppose you believe everyone else is stupid . . . after all the polls show that most of these are the young and somehow think they are the smartest folks among the human race. Not much else I can add . . . it reminds me of the youth that is simply rebellious against anything that their forefathers embraced. You are simply the ‘elite’ smart ones I guess:
But then again are you simply as ideologically motivated by enlightening the historical fact that almost every human being ever to live on the planet had a belief in a creator. I think that is the exuberance of youth to think that they know better than all who came before them.
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Well Scoop, I agree with some of your sentiments, but also am happy that the youth are bringing a fresh set of eyes and willing to discard some tradition in the same of tradition.
If it were not for rebellion we’d still have forced conversions and capital punishment for unbelief and witchcraft (shamans, etc). With all the promises and a near religious monopoly in the west for a thousand years, you’d think Christianity would achieve one or two of its objectives. Some changes are true advances in society, but religion has fought them all. Weird
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Even generation’s youth rebel against the status quo . . . it has been true from the beginning. Usually when they grow up they see the errors of their ways and tend to return to the ethos from which they sprang.
What objectives are you speaking about for the Church? The object of the Church is save souls and is its purpose. You make it sound like they have some other purpose. We cannot gauge the success of this evangelization until the general judgment. I think that looking at the data we did better than anyone could imagine seeing as though we have always been in the crosshairs by all unbelievers and by every other faith in the world though it us a mere 2000 years to do so. Sure we have almost been wiped from the face ofd the earth on several occasions though we are still here and still converting souls. Where it gets tricky is seeing how many live up to their faith and accept ALL of what the faith teaches. But whatever the number, one would have to say that the Church has been an overall success.
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And here is the Demographics for Atheists. You are about as significant as the LGBT ideological movement. There has always been those who refuse to conform to the rest of their peers and so they simply take on the privileged thought that they are smarter than everyone else. I guess evolution has failed the human species. Most of us can’t live good lives because we believe in the supernatural Creation narrative. I wonder why we didn’t go extinct with only you young geniuses running everything for our own good.
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No, I mean precisely what I wrote.
It is simply dogma invented by the Catholic church and has no basis in evidence or fact but resides in the realm of fantasy reliant solely on the imagination/credulity of those who participate.
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Just as I said: you believe that invention is necessarily ‘fantasy’ which it is not. It is not how liturgy came into being.
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So you at least acknowledge that it IS invention?
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Yes if you accept that invention is the use of intellect perhaps guided by inspiration; in this case the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
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Aaah …. and we are back to make believe.
You have some issues, Scoop.
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I have issues with people who are arrogant enough to think that they are created out of nothing and without reason or evidence. Order arises out of chaos which erupts from a chaotic Big Bang and produces man, reason, law, morality and has been ‘even if evolutionary’ toward belief in a Supreme Being or beings. Why is that? What happened in evolution to have men respect the dead and bury them or treat them with dignity or to offer sacrifice to God or to the gods? Is it a failure of Mother Nature? If so why are we so dominant on this earth? Seems that we would have perished if we are so stupid as to believe that there is a Creator.
This is the last one, A. Sorry but this has nothing to do with my post and you always sing the same song. Whatever it is you hope to accomplish here is not working obviously.
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Meanwhile … in your version of reality, you believe a cracker and a slurp of wine are the blood and body of of a Divine Entity for whim there is no evidence.
Yeah , that sounds very intelligent.
Carry on, Sergeant!
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The news of sacrileges at my parish has filled me with a great deal of grief and sadness, and I am offering reparation to Him for the offense done to Him.
As for the proud atheists who mock our Lord, I was once a proud atheist just like you in my mockery and derision. I will pray to our Lady to intercede for you and pray for your conversion just as someone did for me not so long ago.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us. Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.
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Amen, Charlie.
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Mary, save me.
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Good brother scoop, what did you do when you found god on the floor and in a book as a book mark? Did you put him in his golden cage or did you eat him.
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