I have written in the past about Mystery Babylon here and here. Chalcedon has also exploded the false teachings of Alexander Hislop on this subject here, with which I concur, having seen them refuted in Joel Richardson’s Mystery Babylon. I have recently been watching ministry videos from Paul Keith Davis, who believes that Mystery Babylon represents (among other things?) a kind of religious system, from which Christians are to exit (“Come out of her my people!”).
Mystery Babylon in Revelation is one of the most difficult and controversial passages in Scripture. I do not propose to offer a definitive interpretation here. However, the recent videos have caused me to return to a topic which I had left alone and, in particular, they have made me think about the topic of Christian unity, whether or not that is the point of the passage.
It is evident that many of the traditional churches have been corrupted. I am conscious that as a sinner myself (as all humans who have conscience are), it is awkward for me to find fault. Nevertheless, I feel I must make some observations because the situation is grave. There are many members of the clergy who cannot be called orthodox: for they deny (or do not assent to) fundamental tenets of the faith. These people, in positions of power and authority, are extremely problematic.
It seems unlikely that they will be forced out of the Church. Furthermore, they are making it harder and harder for orthodox, conservative enclaves within the Church to continue unmolested. Therefore, many Christians, even if they do not explicitly confess it to others, find themselves asking if the cry “Come out of her, My people!” is applicable today. This does not mean that such questioning Christians believe that the final time of the end is upon us; rather, they wonder if the underlying principle of that cry has come into effect once more, just as it did in times past.
Such thoughts are more characteristic of Protestant Christians (and the churches lineally descended from the Protestant groups) than of Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Ecclesiology plays a role in how one interprets the data. Herein lies the problem: to hear the voice of God, one must remove preconceptions that hinder that audition. How does one determine whether a preconception is of God or not? It is by the Word and by the Spirit (and some would say the Spirit acting through Tradition (the Apostolic Deposit of the Faith)).
How do we discern the difference between the voice of the Spirit and the voices of other spirits or the voice of our own hearts? The Spirit’s word will be in concordance with Scripture. The work of God can surprise us sometimes. The Disciples were scandalised by people who did the work of Christ but did not travel as part of Jesus’ entourage. He told His Disciples not to hinder them, because they were doing His work. Such people belonged to Him, even though they did not travel in the entourage.
Do we need to learn this lesson again today? How do we overcome the Great Schism and the Reformation? How do we as followers of Christ overcome the corruption of the clergy and laity? How do we come together? Christ told us to love one another.
Perhaps God will take us through this by internal promptings and external circumstances. Perhaps we do not need to formally come together: it may be sufficient that we are one in Spirit, that we support one another. If an exodus from the traditional churches is necessary to achieve complete oneness, perhaps there will be a coming of the Spirit, like at Pentecost, that will achieve this result. Perhaps persecution will compel us to flee the old institutions and supernatural revelation from the Spirit will guide us into new house churches that will restore what has been divided.
Prayer seems to be necessary whatever route God wants us to pursue. For my part, I am conscious that I must devote more time to prayer, that I must seek the Lord on these matters, that I must repent where appropriate, that I must give God space to impart revelation, to guide me in the attitudes of the heart and the strategies to be pursued.
The scene is grim. Although we in the West do not face the kind of martyrdom our brothers and sisters are suffering in the East, we are not without opposition. It is easy to feel alone, especially if one is zealous about the Gospel and reform. My prayer for my friends here at AATW, NEO, and Richard’s Watch is for the following things.
- Christians in your area with whom you can share the deep things of your heart, be they priests, members of the congregation, family members, or co-workers
- Fresh revelation from God about the times in which we live and how you as an individual can play your part for the Kingdom
- Healing and blessing for your body, soul, and spirit – may you be empowered to do God’s work
- Endurance, to run the race until the end
- Protection, against all kinds of evil
- Courage of your convictions – to make the difficult choices when you must
May God grant you all this and more, through Jesus Christ your Saviour.
Gloria Deo omnipotenti, Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto. Amen.
All Along the Watchtower 
It is interesting to me that within the Vatican II documents which have torn asunder the Catholic Church these past 50 years are the little warning nuggets tucked inside of the text which are generally ignored. In the instance of the subject of this post is the warning to not engage in ecumenism that does nothing other than to present a false irenicism (of false peace). Isn’t that just what we see today? People claiming that one faith is as good as another or even so far that no faith is as good as having faith.
The hope and faith of the Christian is, of course, unity but not at the cost of apostasy. And furthermore leaving that which is essentially the inheritance of the people who were entrusted to our dear Lord cannot be abandoned anymore than we should run off and hide in the upper room when everything seems lost. While the Bride of Christ suffers and apparently dies upon the Cross there has to be a remnant left to stand and suffer with Her just as there was when Christ suffered for His Bride, the Church.
It is why, we must rejoice in the small signs of orthodoxy that remain among a sea of apostates. For we know that like in the days of the Arians that once again the Church will stand up again in righteousness just as even Christ stumbled on His way to Calvary but got up again. And will the Church find help in an unlikely place like Simon the Cyrene? I do not know but I do know that there are a few men of good will who might stand with the ‘woman of sorrows’ as we saw in Christ’s final hours. And thankfully, at the ground level (parishes and individual priests) that there are those only known to God who are fighting back in the best way that they can. I agree with this article at the Remnant which I sent you to a comment earlier today:
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4583-unite-the-clans-a-word-on-the-fssp
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I had a similar thought this week. “In the instance of the subject of this post is the warning to not engage in ecumenism that does nothing other than to present a false irenicism”
I remember being told all my life something of the nature, “Well, we believe in the same God…” I guess why be Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican etc. if that be true. Now, I do agree that we do believe in the same Triune God but our understanding of that God differs and that differences are important.
The more pressing problem that I’ve encountered because of this sentiment in which I spoke vocally against the idea of our God being the same God of different religions–except for the Jews–and of course there is claimed by those wanting an acceptance of Islam. However, Islam denies the Trininy–it’s not the same God. They believe in Allah–not Abba, who God is is very different even if they have the same understanding of nature of what constitutes as God’s being.
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True enough . . . a reason I renounce the section of the new Catechism that “seemingly” makes it sound like the God of Islam is the God of Judaism and Christianity. We never stated this before to my knowledge; it seems to be a completely novel idea and composed for religio-political reasons which is this ecumenism of false irenicism.
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Not to mention your Pope’s recent heretical announcements in agreement with Muslim leaders on all religions being within ‘the permissive will of God’!!!!
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Yes, and he added the “permissive will”part later when questioned to make it theologically conform. Originally he said it was God’s Will. Absolute heresy or incredible ignorance . . . take your pick.
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Re-reading your remark Scoop I’m appalled the Catechism conveys possibility yof misinterpretation and not abundantly clear.
Sounds similar to a guidance document issued by CoE’s House of Bishops to justify baptising transgender folk.It deliberately twists holy writ to justify their action!! Thus, my wife and I informed teh vica of the church we attended that we are no longer part of their communion. Not only have they let the serpent slither into the sanctuary but also they now desecrate cathedrals by using them as playgrounds!
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This is the whole section Richard:
The Church and non-Christians
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
THE FOOTNOTE 331 above, refers to the Vatican II document NOSTRA AETATE.
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Amen and thank you Nicholas. It is noteworthy that a reporter was told by a Muslim illegal immigrant from Africa that they view Europe as Babylon!
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Mystery babylon. Babylon is gone, but not really. Its religion of Nimrod and its priests just went elsewhere when Babylon crumbled.
Follow the money.
I believe the priesys of Babylons dagon religion went first to Pergammon, if im typing it rite. From there the went yo greece where people kinda accepted them and paid them tithes and what not. the priests put on a good show, with their robes and big fish hats, the same they wear now. Greece wasnt so great anymore. When good brother Constantine lifted the ban on christianity, the priests of Dagon went to Rome….the money was better and lots of opportunity to squeeze the already idolatrous Romans of their cash. The babylonian priests of dagon the fish god went where the pay was the best. From Rome, catholicism was forced on the rest of the western world, and the priests of Dagon had it made. Do what the men in fish hats said or burn at the stake.These monsters and their devilish religion became filthy rich, and still are. Now, they can buy their immunity from prosecution in what ever town or village they infest. Too late, roach spray wont drive them out. They have all the money and the power. Money is their power and it works.
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Ooops, i got carried away and forgot to mention mystery Babylon. Its called that because Babylon is gone but it lives as the catholic church. The same costumes, the same incantations and magic act they perform now, the same symbolism, its all there. The pope even has a pine cone staff, straight from Babylon. The catholics even have Tammuz and Semiramis, the mother child deity all over their temples and homes. In Egypt it was called osiris or something. The religion of Nimrod still lives in its entirety in Rome. Mystery Babylon solved.
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An interesting thesis Nicholas, but let’s not forget that the EU’s parliament building in Strasbourg is built to replicate Durer’s paintng of the half-built Tower of Babel.
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I find it hard to settle on an interpretation of Revelation 17-18. The description of the woman being drunk on the blood of the saints would point to martyrdom – is it specific to the end times or a statement about all of history?
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My guess is both… and… rather than either…or…
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In response to the “Come out of her people.” I just read this today and think that he expresses that which many of our present day conveys somehow understand whether intuitively or rationally. It is said better than I have said it in the past:
http://forge-and-anvil.com/2019/08/26/hatred-converted-me-to-catholicism/
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