I made a comment on Richard’s Watch today that I think is worth sharing with the readers here at AATW. It was made in the context of discussion about people getting involved with the Occult, the New Age, and other parts of that nexus.
Comment
Fascinating and a salutary warning to people who might be tempted to meddle with forces best left alone. Having an interest in these matters myself, I have come across numerous testimonies of Christians who, like you, had engaged with the spiritual world and faced terrible consequences.
I believe some blame for this phenomenon can be placed on the rise of materialism as a pervasive philosophy following the two World Wars. Man intuitively knows there is a supernatural world out there and longs to be linked with it. Refusing to bow to the authority of God, either because God’s morality is inherently unattractive to the sin nature or because the Church badly models Christ, he seeks the supernatural in places that reject the Gospel. Evil ensues.
I suspect another contributing factor in some cases is the simple, dressed-down version of liturgy found in a number of Protestant churches, including my own. While many of us, particularly Puritanesque Christians, approve of this, for some people worship needs to be outwardly special, not just about the connection in our hearts and minds. The spectacle of pagan and Jewish temple-style worship has been with mankind longer than the simplicity of the Protestant/Evangelical churches. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and mid-to-high Anglicanism retain this spectacle with their vestments etc. If that sort of thing is what you need (or want?), but you do not want Christianity itself, I can see how you might be attracted to neo-paganism or esotericism, or living religions that have such displays.
Regarding miracles and unity, like you, I care about those things. But I also feel a tension in them, which perhaps the Lord will resolve now – but maybe not. I think, especially in the case of healing, there is a concern among many of us about the times when nothing seems to happen and we wonder what went wrong and feel bad for raising anybody’s hopes. In unity, there is the problem of doctrinal differences, and how to overcome them. Much as I would like to be a Catholic, and have wanted to be for much of my life, there is a part of me that has something like a Puritan’s worldview, and this prevents me from joining Rome. I reject the claims of the Magisterium and other parts of its structure and there is nothing I can do about that, because it is a conscience issue. In some respects, I think we are actually better at unity now than we used to be because we respect each other’s boundaries and consciences more; there is more of a modus vivendi than there was in previous history – even some acknowledgement of the good things in each other’s denominations.
-At https://richards-watch.org/2019/05/11/searching-for-wrong-truth-traps-me-in-a-spiritual-prison/#comments
AATW from its inception (I was not a member in those days, however) was about Christians from different denominations giving their perspectives on issues of the day, both secular and church-related. Various ministries perform similar functions. I am particularly fond of Archbishop Cranmer’s blog and Anglican Unscripted, both of which, despite being Anglican in origin, have fans from across different Christian traditions.
Occasionally I will also watch videos from Catholic ministries, usually at the recommendation of Scoop or Phillip Augustine, such as TheRemnantvideo or Church Militant or Brian Holdsworth. These give me some insight into how Catholics (both cradle- and convert-) perceive the crisis within their own church, and the broader issues affecting Christians in the world. Understanding not only what other Christians think, but why they think it, is important in building unity, although impractical as regards every single matter, unless one is fortunate to have sufficient time for such things.
What the internet has done is show us how much we have in common (and yes, I am aware that this is a cliché). I suspect that if the main contributors of AATW were to be gathered for a prayer meeting, we would actually be able to pray in real unity about a number of matters, even if we had to leave certain sensitive things aside. At the same time, we would also be able to speak in candour (and hopefully politeness) about matters where we have different perspectives, be they political, economic, social, or religious. That is a precious thing in this age of fury and division.
All Along the Watchtower 
here is the testimony of a girl leaving an occult religion….
mkmason2002
6 months ago
When I was a Catholic child my father bought me an expensive 2 1/2 ft statue of Mary, as I was named after her. I used to kneel down in front of it and pray a rosary to Mary. When I got saved I went to my mother’s house and threw it in the outside trash in which my tearful mother retrieved. So I had to take it back into the alley and threw it on the ground, breaking it into many pieces. My mother almost had a heart attack. But as she saw the seriousness of my faith and my changed life I was able to witness to her. She got saved a year later. Later my Dad, brothers and sister got saved. They are no longer Catholic
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I’m glad, provided the this is a true testimony, that she came to know Jesus personally. There is always a danger with any organised religion, be it Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox, of drifting along without truly engaging with the Lord.
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anyone can fake being born again. but the saved know the voice of the lord and we can tell if someone has met him. we can tell if someone doe4snt know the lord. if you noticed she didnt mention any sect or religion. the born again want nothing to do with sects or religions. this girl sounds like the real deal. remember good brother scoops story about some lady he knows. she dropped the catholic cult. she went from one day being a faithful member to the next day realizing its a demonic scam. just scoop telling the story, i knew this lady met the lord, without even her own words.
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Funny, Bosco. I don’t know any such story or it was about something far from you’re take on it. Dig it up and print it again so that I can make some sense out of your nonsense.
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ill try
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uh, you said it was a sister of one of your friends.
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I always feel that one of my eyes is blind when it comes to a crisis in the Church. I am Catholic, I’ve always been Catholic but I’m John Paul II Catholic and I’m American Catholic.
Being raised a John Paul II Catholic, I do not view the Vatican II Council as negatively as say Scoop does. I still will say it claims orthodox teaching.
Being an American Catholic, I naturally view things within the school of Classical Liberalism of the Enlightenment–and to be totally honest, I am doing my best to shed those lenses. There’s good there but I would rather be among Thomist and Augustinians.
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I think Chris Jackson is reading the tea leaves rather well in this article: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4465-the-victims-of-vatican-ii-american-catholics-leave-the-church-in-record-numbers
We can all see ourselves as falling somewhere within this spectrum of post VII Catholics . . . and to some extent it has permeated all of Christendom. From John XXIII through the antipope Francis it has been a struggle and even the best of these, ‘doctrinally speaking’ added their own problems to the Church: those they elevated to the hierarchy, the lack of discipline of the cardinals, bishops and priests and their insistence on the ‘new springtime’ of VII not to mention their blind eye to both homosexuality and to the ecumenism of relativistic belief that all faiths have something to offer and all go to heaven (Assisi, Koran kissing, receiving the eye of the tiger, resigning the papacy, writing books on a change to the Papacy as a synodal Papacy etc.). We are living in the worst crisis that the Church has faced during its 2000 year history . . . and eclipses those errors that came before . . . a veritable re-emergence of heresies and errors long conquered by our forefathers all converging on us at once. What do we call that?: Modernism or the synthesis of all heresy.
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I recently read “In Praise of the Useless Life” by Br. Paul Quenon. I didn’t know anything about the book, I just figured it was about living in a monastery. I soon learned it was about the same Monastery of Thomas Merton in Kentucky. And the author was so fixated with quasi-intellectualism rampant of the 1970s with Jazz, poetry, and syncretism, I found myself wondering what sort of monastery was in Kentucky. The book spoke more about the “his holiness” the Dali Lama then of any particular Pope. It spoke of spiritualism that either bordered on pantheism and Buddhism and little of Western Christianity. I wondered how this book could have such good reviews. Perhaps, a reflection on the world.
That being said, If I am to be considered a victim of Vatican II by some, I suppose the only thing those who make such assertions can only conclude that it’s the Holy Spirit that has led me to attempt to uphold orthodox moral teaching of the Church. I still have as much reservation over intergralism as you do syncretism, but nonetheless, the syncretism is blatant that it’s hard not to see it.
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Indeed the time for a true and working integralism lies in the past; in the small villages where people lived and died in their communities and their life revolved around their common Church which nailed down the center of all activities and beliefs of the town. Those days are sadly gone and the problems of today and the lifestyles and the chasing of work around the world to make a living has made such a life nearly impossible and it cannot be forced upon us; though it probably will be some day in a secular sense and a globalist relativistic sense. We will be force, via hate speech laws, and perhaps incarceration and fines to accept a one world religion devoid of Divine Law, Church Law, a Common Morality and a (at least regional) ethic. So is the end near? Are we setting the stage for mankind’s church that celebrates our wonderful selves and is Jesus or God of the Christians is simply a Higher Power that pervades all persons and where all churches are blended into a sort of homogenized faith that insists on nothing, has no commandments and no hierarchy of accountability? Sounds like the universal church of satan; “you will not die . . . you will become as gods”. Seems like we’re reaching that point . . . and I wonder how long it will be before it either is confronted and defeated or before it is the norm of the world . . . a second reckoning of the Roman’s acceptance of all gods and religions of those whom they defeated. The question remains whether Catholicism will be one of those that are defeated (temporarily) and lend credence to Christ’s question as to whether, on His return, He ‘will find faith’ in this world.
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You have my sympathy. My advice if you want it is to get as close to a Second Temple lens without losing science as possible .
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Interestingly enough, Catholic theologian, Brant Pitre would argue that Catholicism is inherently Jewish and I would suggest this would be a second-Temple Judaism.
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My concern is the turn Catholicism takes with Augustine of Hippo – for me he marks a clear break.
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In what in particular?
A break from a more zionistic atonement with the development of Original Sin? Of course, St. Paul severs this cord in Romans and Galatians. In regards to the incorporation of Neo-Platonist Christianity, that was being done far sooner even in the Gospel of John and by Justin Martyr and John Chysostom.
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I agree with much of what you say – the trends are there before Augustine. For me they are bad trends at their root and I reject them. But Augustine represents a culmination of them – so you are right to say that he is not the break in the strict sense, but for me he is a very good symbol of it and it gains steam from him onwards. Prior to Augustine these trends were not as concentrated: consider, for example, the difference between Augustine and Lactantius.
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Nicholas, I understand your longing for unity although, civilized politeness and agreeing to steer away from areas of disagreement doesn’t really equate to unity. Why stop at Christian unity? We could speak of religious unity and include all other beliefs; we could speak of human unity and include all people as being human brothers and sisters or even cosmic unity as we are all creations of the same universe and bring animals, plants and even rocks, stars and planets into the mix. Really what has happened is that many of us are looking for a type a relativism where ‘your truth’ is not ‘my truth’ or like Bob Dylan once sang: “You’re right from your side and I’m right from mine.” It may allow us all to be nice and civil but nothing substantial outside of worldly peace can come of it. Sadly, that is how I view this world today; anything goes and everybody is right and nobody has the ‘one, true, catholic and apostolic’ faith that we Christians are likely to believe in our own way of understanding that phrase.
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im worried good brother scoop. you dont remember what you say. do you take anything for that? anyway you gotta see this video. vorhis clamps shut the issue.
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