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The parallels between the world into which Christianity was born and this world are obvious; the major difference is the legacy of the Faith, and the witness still borne to it.
The Roman world recognised no sacred nature inhering in being human: abortion; infanticide; slavery and a material view of life were the norm. As we move away from our inheritance, it is not surprising to see some of those things reappear. What we want from our life is the only standard by which we judge; as long as it does not go against the Law of the land, we can have it. “Justice” redefines itself as “what is legal” and “what the State allows.” As we have developed the concept of “human rights” around the same principles, it follows that my right to choose trumps some intangible “right to life.” If necessary we can use the flexibility of language to aid us here. You might congratulate a woman on her forthcoming baby, and the shops have cards to that effect; but medically a foetus is a clump of cells that can be removed if the bearer of the lump of cells so wishes.
So Mammon wins out. We can, as Christians rightly lament the plight of those who do not have food, shelter or safety, and we can work for their good, knowing it coincides with the good of the wider society. Nice though the fantasy of charitable giving providing for all the needs of the needy, in practice if the State does nothing then some people starve. What is wrong with the mega-rich in our Society is not that they earn too much, it is that they pay too little in tax. We have obligations as members of a State, and those do not come free. So, for all its imperfections, the British National Health Service ensures that no one is driven to bankruptcy as a result of being sick, nor are they denied the best help because they cannot afford it.
Properly viewed, taxation can be the State’s way of doing what is needed for those who need it most. Where we used to pay tithes to the Church, we pay taxes to Mammon. It is perhaps the uses to which Mammon puts those taxes that we might direct our objections.
As Christians we recognise we have a obligation to others. We have not gone down the route of those early Christians who held all goods in common, but taxation is the way that has been developed to ensure some money goes into a common coffer.
The Churches can and do work with the State in many of the areas mentioned: health; education; social services; welfare; all are spheres where we work together. As the State in the West has begun the process of withdrawal from areas where it was over extended, the Churches have tried to occupy some of those vacant spaces. Anyone who had worked with a Foodbank or a community group knows that Christian make up a sizeable proportion of those who give their time and efforts freely.
We give freely; but do we give too freely? Do we mistake a common concern for a common motive and common ends? To what extent do we, as organised Christian groups do what any other interest group would do, namely promote our own agenda? If we don’t, then why not? Have we become frightened that we will be accused to doing what everyone else does – that is to work towards our own goals? Or have we convinced ourselves that the goals are then identical?
In the case of tax, it is Mammon who will decide where the money goes, but when it comes to areas where the Churches are putting in money derived from the faithful, the faithful might like to start behaving like shareholders and asking what value has been added to the goals of the Church by the investment made?
Mammon and God can work together well enough for the good of God’s people, but the latter demands that the Churches ensure that good is indeed promoted and beneficial. I doubt we do that often, and am sure we do not do it systematically. Perhaps we should try harder?
Nicholas said:
This post strikes a chord with me since I have been studying corporate law for two years now. Spiritually, I would say that Mammon, Ashtarte, and Molech/Baal (and Bacchus) are the entities we are fighting in the heavens and in the culture wars. As you may have read in one of my posts earlier this year, I confessed that I treated money, sex, and alcohol as if they were spiritual entities rather than inanimate tools. They seem to have a life of their own, and I find it interesting that the ancient Greeks treated drunkenness as a religious experience, as if the god were inside them (whence “enthousiasm”), and some may have felt that way about sex too. I think it is possible that the powers of darkness are part of the propaganda war associated with these things. While I believe in drinking in moderation, not being a teetotaller, I fear the “demon drink”.
Re: control of our investments – absolutely. And I believe that all conservative Christians should consider pulling their money out of apostate institutional churches and band together to set up private trusts to support the work of orthodox priests, deacons, and others.
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Scoop said:
It is a sad fact of life that personal almsgiving has either become compulsory taxation by the State or an impersonal donation to NGO’s who are rightly businesses that pay their upper staff salaries that are greater than some for-profit institutions. Our charity has become institutionalized and our involvement with the needy, the old and the sick has been sanitized to the point where we do not know the persons or have to look upon their misery; unless we are shown commercials on TV produced for maximum sentimental responses. And as you say, we are just now seeing that much of our forced taxation for ‘humanitarian’ purposes are not alms at all but used for ideological reasons and to substitute true compassion and mercy with what better be called ‘guilt offerings’.
I no longer simply give (though taxes are not optional) to so-called charities unless I can vet them by who they give money to and how much of that money actually gets to those who are need. We have sadly reached a place that even good works are politicized and coopted for things we would reject as matters of principle . . . and yet we know that almsgiving is a duty of all Christians.
How nice it would be to get back to placing our alms in the hands (or our time and compassion at the disposal) of the intended recipients and also know that the recipient isn’t a professional recipient that is scamming the person who wishes that his money might be spent on the truly needed.
Mother Teresa had a saying that I like to think we should use as a guidepost in our charitable activities: “Not all of us can do great things but we can do small things with great love.” As for the political uses of our charities and our taxes there is little that we can do other than try to abolish them and let us take care of those whom we have direct contact . . . and yet we still must allow for the missionary work of those who give their time and talents selflessly and without regard for their own enrichment. But now, more than ever, it is incumbent upon us to do investigate those who legitimately make use of our money to truly help those in need of our help . . . and many times, spiritual alms are as important or more important than the physical alms that we provide.
A bureaucratic gift becomes a ‘right’ or an ‘entitlement’ whilst a personal act of kindness and mercy is seen as charitable love and caring. The first makes people greedy and the second makes people humbly grateful. There is a world of difference in these activities and objectives.
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chalcedon451 said:
Given the scale of the problems facing modern societies, it lies beyond the reach of private charities to fund educational and welfare services for all who require them.
I doubt that a democratic electorate would accept a situation where perhaps their own children would not receive much by way of education because funding was not available except from private donors.
The idea that serious illness could bankrupt your family still seems to me barbarous.
We never have and never will live in a society where individuals can audit the books of charities, so to some extent, even one’s giving to the Church is not certain to go where one might like.
Modern societies are too complex for what worked in a pre-modern context to work, but where the Churches still make inputs, they should demand more say over the outputs.
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Scoop said:
I do wonder about the “scale” of the problems that you mention. This at a time when even with populations that were unthinkable in times past . . . at least those in civilized countries seem to have more goods and amenities that even the rich of ages past. Education was mandated and used to (at least in the US) educate people in reading, writing, arithmetic, logical thinking and a dose of history, civics, geography, arts and the classics . . . pretty much all of which has now disappeared and replaced by societal issues that are rather novel. As mentioned today in an article on Crisis:
G.K. Chesterton observed that “it ought to be the oldest things that are taught to the youngest people.” In other words, children should be first exposed to the time-tested ideas and facts that we’re most sure of. But in today’s educational wonderland, Chesterton’s formula has been turned on its head. These days, educators feel they have a mandate to introduce the most novel and un-tested theories to the youngest people.
And are there more people today in need of welfare than before? I find the data does not support that at all. There are those who have mental and physical reasons for not being able to make ends meet but in our civilized societies this is a moving goal post set by each new generation. What is considered poor today is quite different than what it was when I grew up.
We are at fault as well (as Catholics and Christians) for letting the State remove the Christian based safety nets for healthcare that we ourselves manned and operated. And if people today are left broke by an illness it is because the government has almost ensured that it does. Not enough space here to write all I would like on that debacle.
As to Catholic Charities, you can get the list of people they give their monies to and it is why I quit giving to the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and Catholic Relief Services. I won’t even support the Diocese appeal fund anymore because of where they spend and who they send their money to. It is quite sad that we cannot trust our own Bishops to safeguard our money.
Again, I don’t think it is as complicated as they have made it. They have stopped us for doing at ground level what needs be done and they have complicated it by systems that are huge and have made a mess of the whole thing. In fact, there is nothing other than road building and militarization that a government is better at than the private sector. At least that is how I see it.
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Nicholas said:
There are probably ways around letting corrupt hierarchies abuse your funds: for example GoFundMe for various projects; setting up your own charity as a trust, trust corporation, or other corporation (e.g. company limited by guarantee) with articles of association restricting the use of money to approved purposes – and you could entrench those articles to make it hard to repeal them.
The problem is that doing it yourself is a lot of work and can involve certain registration costs, not to mention efforts with accounts, audits where appropriate, filing minutes and resolutions, etc. Not for the faint-hearted, but potentially a way of bringing conservatives together.
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Scoop said:
Not to mention the many scams that have been perpetrated on GoFundMe in the last few years. I prefer to get back to basics: love one another as I have loved you. And don’t confuse your taxes and votes with the love and almsgiving that we need to do. But we cannot relieve all the poor nor can we ever eliminate all suffering. In fact, God has used both for our own salvation and the soul is more important what the physical body might experience in this life.
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Nicholas said:
Indeed. I do think conservative Christians could be more organised in providing Christian education, however – though this does not relieve parents of their duty to raise their children properly. I wish there were more orthodox schools and universities in the UK where kids were exposed to decent Christian history and philosophy.
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Scoop said:
Amen to that.
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Nicholas said:
For my part, I prefer to give to Christian charities with whom I have a direct connection or which are partners of or connected with a ministry with which I have a direct connection. I prefer to prioritise those that do missionary work with Muslims, or serve the persecuted Church, or serve Israel.
As for taxation and public services – we might revert in some cases to a minimalist or means-tested approach. I would prefer that we return to something like the Liberal reforms of the early 20th century: modern centrism and leftism has becoming a breeding ground of statism, and I, for one, am an advocate of private civil law solutions to life problems (preferably common law or equitable) over regulation.
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Scoop said:
I believe to a large extent we have lost our focus on what is important in life. We fret over the suffering of people though we all suffer in this life to some extent. The remedy to suffering is love not throwing money at it which may ameliorate the problem in the short run and then deliver us a state like Venezuela where all the people will suffer far worse and perhaps lose their freedom to boot.
We have no appreciation for the cures that have benefitted the whole world such as the eradication of polio, small pox and the like. These are benefits that go to everyone since there are no peoples to infect them anymore.
This false egalitarianism concerning healthcare is a hoax. There is always going to be places where better healthcare and doctors reside and more medicines available and places like Calcutta India or some Eskimo village where you’re lucky to find anyone to pick you up off the street. Life is not free and it does not come with rights to equal outcomes and equal services. It has always been that way and for politicians to try to make it sound like they are going to fix that is simply to place themselves as saviors . . . which they aren’t. They know it but it wins votes and it enriches them quite often by money from those who will benefit from their policies. In fact their policies now, are driving good doctors from their practices, keeping smart folks from becoming doctors or researchers as pharmaceutical companies with the largest R&D budgets have been maligned of late and cures for things such as cancer will suffer because of it.
We have to start thinking a little more deeply about what quality of life truly is and I am far more sympathetic to those who have never felt unconditional love from their parents, children or from Christians or Christ Himself. We learn that love, primarily from our spouses and our families and with both under attack we are selling out the most vital need of the human person for something of far less value; a temporary aid in relieving suffering. I would that they get as much of that which is possible from those who show people love. Indeed to be loved is higher than any humanistic goal to give everyone equal healthcare at no cost. I cast my lot with Jackie Wilson and his great song:
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Nicholas said:
Part of the problem is the emphasis on guilds and qualifications as well. Provided someone knows that a person offering a service is not qualified, why shouldn’t the client avail himself of the service, accepting the risk it involves. If the service provided lies, the client already has protection in contract law via misrepresentation, and in the tort of deceit.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
I have no problem giving my tithes to the gathering I attend. I don’t blame religious people from being worried about giving their money to a out of control religion. There is another way. You can give to people in need on the street. Jesus said that if you feed a hungry person, you are feeding Him. If you know of a family in great need, give to them. Sometimes I give in this manner if I don’t feel like driving to my local gathering. Most sunday mornings I just don’t want to get out of bed.
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Nicholas said:
Plus some churches do not have big congregations, so the money stays where it is. My church is Baptist and our money essentially stays with us, but payroll and other services are provided by a federation we belong to.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
I don’t refer to where we meet as a church. I don’t go all the time. Maybe 4 times a yr. But I was there one day when the pastor mentioned that all the monetary needs had been met for that yr. We support a few missionaries. Maybe 2. Its a small gathering. Never does the pastor ding the crowd for money. We trust the Lord. The Lord is our Shepherd, we shall not want.
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Nicholas said:
That sounds good. I dislike the arm-twisting for money that you see in some churches, especially playing music before or during the collection – that’s emotional manipulation.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
The collection plate. I simply forgot about that. I haven’t seen one of those in 30 yrs or so. They don’t have those in calvary chapels. There a small box on the wall somewhere and you put you tithes or whatever in that. There is never a plea for money. I sort of forgot what its like to attend unsaved church services. Ill tell you what….I don’t miss them at all.
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Nicholas said:
Do you ever going along to things like prayer meetings, healing meetings, etc? Do you move in the gifts of the Spirit (charismatic/Pentecostal)?
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Good brother Nicholas, if my calvary chapel has prayer meetings, im unaware of them. Healing meetings….I doubt if they stage those. I believe they have a mens prayer meeting or a breakfast sometimes. They might not do that anymore. Things change in the 30 yrs ive been hanging around there. I know they have these retreats up in the mountains where they do god knows what. I do feel convicted about not being more involved in my gathering. I shouldn’t speak about that they offer or don’t, because I don’t really know. Im rarely there. If you are curious you can search…..calvary chapel lake elsinore….and the site tells what is going on.
Do I move in the gifts of the spirit? Im not sure what that means. But each born again person has a gift. I believe mine is forgiveness.
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Nicholas said:
Usually people who use the phrase “gifts of the Spirit” mean those mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14: e.g. words of wisdom, words of knowledge, supernatural faith, prophecy, healing, miracles, discernment, seeing beyond the veils, speaking in or interpreting tongues. Some people find they use them frequently, others that they have more sporadic experiences. In addition, people may have dreams and visions, as Peter talks about in Acts 2 on Pentecost, where he quotes from Joel 2. I believe, in accordance with Joel 2, that these will become more frequent now as we draw closer to the return of Christ, because God says in the prophecy that they are given as signs about the Day of the LORD (= Day of Yahweh). When you look at how that term is used in the New Testament, it turns out it means the return of Christ where He pours out wrath on the unbelievers, especially the Antichrist and/or False Prophet.
Well, to whatever degree you’re involved: if you’re close to God and feel His love and comfort, that is a good thing, and I hope you continue to have opportunities to think about how you can work with the Spirit in these difficult times – be it through prayer, ministry, or just everyday acts of kindness and sharing the Gospel.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Well good brother Nicholas, im about the laziest Christian you will ever find. I witness to people if the occasion arises. Did you know that a born again persons spirit will witness to another persons spirit without you saying a word. Just walk into a room and your spirit talks to others spirits.But this is only for those who have new spirits from above, not just anyone who thinks they are saved or godly or religious.
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chalcedon451 said:
Of course, Bosco, you see it precisely nowhere in the Bible, but you live by a lot of non-Biblical stuff as we all know.
Just what is the fruit of your belief that you are born again? Look into the what St James has to say about faith without works. What are your works Bosco?
If anyone saw you and your way of living, would they know you are Christ’s, or would they think you a lazy hypocrite saying stuff you don’t live?
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Bosco the Heretic said:
If someone took a good look at me, they would say im a lazy hypocrite who doesn’t walk the talk.
About this born again thing that haunts you so much, it happened in an instant. At first I thoughtit was what they call a LSD flashback. I figured id just wait it out. When I got home I had a over riding feeling to open the bible. I spent every spare moment reading it and I somehow knew this Jesus.I didn’t know I was born again till yrs later. I never heard of born again.
Yes, the unsaved have no idea what it is to be changed. Its impossible. Carnal man cannot fathom the things of the spirit. Jesus was adamant about being born again.
You say I believe things that aren’t in the bible. ….Look whos talking. (;-D
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, I am glad you admit that no Apostle of follower of Christ is “born again” in Scripture. You can believe any old rubbish Bosco, and do, but I am glad you have given up pretending it has anything to do with the Bible.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Heres something you are forced to believe that not only isn’t in the bible, but is straight from the pits of hell…..
“basic Catholic teaching that Catholics must be free from sin before receiving Communion. He mentions divorced and remarried faithful, in a clear reference to Francis’ opening to letting these Catholics receive Communion on a case-by-case basis….
priests must be celibate”
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/vatican-ex-doctrine-chief-pens-manifesto-amid-pope-061624972.html
Withold communion from people. That’s the height of arrogance. Communion is a gift from Jesus to all mankind…its not the exclusive property of some vice filled religion. But you believe it is.
Muller says , or reminds you that priests are to be celibate. Ive never seen a bunch of wild dogs such as catholic priests. They molest and rape little kids,toddlers, teens, they savage the nuns with impunity, and the best part is…they turn on each other. They rape each other. (;-D Anything on 2, 4, 6 or 8 legs is fair game to them.
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chalcedon451 said:
There is this book called the Bible, and this man called Paul, and if you ever read to understand it rather than to imitate a parrot, you might recall these words:
“So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.” 1 Cor. 11:27
So there you go, St Paul agrees with the Pope and you call them both out.
Oh Bosco, this is too easy. Do go back to sleep. Best be silent and be thought a fool than to write and put the matter beyond doubt.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Great quote good brother Chalcedn. Take communion in an unworthy manner. Most people, saved and unsaved aren’t too sure what that exactly means. I did hear the meaning once but forgot it exactly. But it sure doesn’t mean being sinless. Unworthy manner is a action word, a verb, its not a state of sinlessness. No matter how anyone contorts that passage, you cant get being sinless out of it. All men have sinned, so god isn’t expecting us to not have sin.
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chalcedon451 said:
Of course it does not mean you are sinless, whoever thought it did? The meaning is precisely the one you called arrogant. As usual, when caught out in error, you deflect. If you knew Christ for real, you’d have the Spirit of truth in you and would apologise and admit error.
Humility and repentance are marks of Christ. You show neither quality.
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