I found this very interesting and I hope you do as well __ Scoop.
LAKE GARDA, Italy, July 17, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) — Papal homilies about the “God of surprises,” discourses on the “ideologues of doctrine,” and the upcoming youth synod’s stress on the need to listen to “the voices” inside and outside the Church in order discern the Spirit, may seem new to many Catholics.
But for one noted historian, this language isn’t new at all but is steeped in a “fascist spirit” that emerged in Catholic circles during the interwar period of the 1920s-30s, was carried forth by controversial figures like Teilhard de Chardin, and is now being unleashed.
Read the rest here: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/catholic-historian-explains-the-disturbing-history-behind-pope-francis-con
All Along the Watchtower 
An interesting article with much food for thought. This is a crisis of anarchy in our thinking. We have allowed reason to get a bad name and feelings to get far too much praise. Emotions are built on value judgments, which are not sacrosanct. Some judgments are more or less correct, others are not. Tradition is not perfect, but it gives you a baseline and a framework to guide you in life and in studying the bible. I may be a Protestant, but that does not mean I have no regard for the history of the Church and her thoughts.
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I think Rao nailed it. With everything we see it all seems to point back to the ideologies that were delayed in their development in the West. But now they are flourishing once again. It affects us all. It is not simply a Catholic problem because it is a secular problem which means it is infecting society itself which enters into all religions Christians and Jews alike.
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“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”
psalm 118
“Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;”
psalm 91
The Lord is my shepherd.
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Bosco, who do you think came up with the scriptures you are using. The correct answer is the Holy Catholic Church. All the authors of the New Testament were holy men in the Church that was founded by Jesus Christ. Then, the authority of the Church was used to pick and choose which writings were the most worthy and sacred.
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Good brother Steve, the bible is clear on this, that the holy ghost is the author of the scriptures. And the NT was inspired by the holy ghost and penned by Jews. I know you think your beloved catholic church gave us the bible, because you are convinced Catholicism is gods true church. The sad fact is that the CC burned to death anyone attempting to get the bible into the common mans hands. The CC banned the lay from owning any parts of the scriptures in 1250. In London, Tomas More strapped people to the rack for owning bibles. Recently ,the CC made him a saint. Your generous CC just unbanned the bible in 1963. Im having trouble believing the CC is gods church. Jesus wouldn’t burn people to death for owning the bible.
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Bosco, you stated: “the bible is clear on this, that the holy ghost is the author of the scriptures.” OK, prove it from the bible. The bible can’t prove itself. Show me where the bible names the table of contents, i.e. the books that should be included. And why would I believe you, what authority do you have. The Catholic Church has the authority, so much so, that you fight against her on a daily basis. The Catholic Church has done more to get people to not only listen when Jesus knocks, but to actually open the door, than any institution since Adam & Eve.
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Well good brother Steve,i don’t know what good a table of contents will do. As to proving the bible…god says he states,or tells, the end from the beginning. Prophesy has been proved to come true. That’s how we prove gods word. Now, what authority do I have? The Lord is my shepherd. He is my authority. Good brother Steve, keep knocking. God willing he will come in and sup with you. And He does will that. He very much wants to fellowship with you.
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When was the printing press invented Bosco? How were Bibles made from the original Vulgate Bible was produced by St. Jerome?
Yes, you wouldn’t have a Bible today unless the good scribes in the monasteries didn’t spend their entire lives making hand made copies of the original to supply to the churches. There were no books on a bookshelf until after the 1500’s.
The Catholic Church then printed the Douay-Rheims in English during the 1500’s. Anybody could buy and read it if they wanted one and could afford it. They were very expensive to make.
I still use the Douay-Rheims which was translated from the original Latin Vulgate that had been used in parishes since circa Anno Domini 400 or so.
Steve is right. You wouldn’t have anything to copy or translate from had it not been for the good monks of the Catholic Church who copied the ‘entire’ Bilble as it was codified. And we’re sorry that your KJV decided to rip some of the books out and treat them as non-canonical. And as Steve said: who gave them the right to do that. Did the Bible say that Tynsdale, Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin or King James had the authority to do this? Show me the text.
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The Hebrew scribes kept the OT going. By the time god dispersed the jews there were lots of OT copies. That’s nice that eary catholic monks kept making copies. The must have been dedicated men. My hat is off to them. Those gallant men are long gonenow. They have been replaced withmen like good brothers cardinal Law and cardinal Pell and Father Marciel and others too many to mention in one yr.
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Would you rather have the few Bibles in existence in a parish or in the hands of the literate or the illiterate? How are the illiterate going to speak the Gospel? Here is a chart for the illiteracy of the world. I have it for many countries as well. The number on the right side is the percentage of the literate. Where there is no number, the percentage was so low that they have no data for it.
year World
1475
1550
1650
1750
1820 12
1870 19
1880 20
1890 21
1900 21
1910 26
1920 32
1930 33
1940 42
1947
1950 36
1952
1959
1960 42
1969
1970 56
1979
1980 56
1990 68
2000 81
2003
2010 83
2011
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Here’s all the data, clown: https://ourworldindata.org/roser/graphs/LiteracyRatesGlobalLongRun/LiteracyRatesGlobalLongRun.csv
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You’ve been reading too many fairy tales Bosco. Anybody who could afford a bible or the gospels could get them made. Unfortunately not until very recently could very many people actually read them or understand them. They were so precious that it was in the Church’s interest to get them into parishes that didn’t already have the scriptures. There simply weren’t enough to go around and to be wasted in the hands of those without an education.
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What does literacy rate have to do with the Mighty God of Jacob? Is Gods arm short that it cannot save? You are saturated with the spirit of Catholicism where you believe the bible should be withheld from the peoples of the earth. As i mentioned in a comment that has gone missing, The pure and white catholic church just recently, in 1963,officially unbanned the bible. Its been outlawed by the CC since 1250 AD.
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O please where did you hear such garbage. I’m Catholic, my wife is Catholic, her parents and grandparents were Catholic they all had Bibles and usually were given on their Confirmation when they were young. You are either daft or you just like to spread lies. Which is it?
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ITEM #2 COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE – 1229 A.D.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
The first catalog of forbidden books to include in its title the word index, however, was published in 1559 by the Sacred Congregation of the Roman Inquisition (a precursor to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). The last and 20th edition of the Index appeared in 1948. The list was suppressed in June 1966.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum
The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: “That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary.”
Pius VII said, “It is evidence from experience, that the holy Scriptures, when circulated in the vulgar tongue, have, through the temerity of men, produced more harm than benefit.” Pope Leo XII called the Protestant Bible the “Gospel of the Devil” in an encyclical letter of 1824. Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846) railed “against the publication, distribution, reading, and possession of books of the holy Scriptures translated into the vulgar tongue.” Pope Leo XII, in January 1850, condemned the Bible Societies and admitted the fact that the distribution of Scripture has “long been condemned by the holy chair.”
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It would help if you knew why that was done. There were unauthorized translations being passed about and this was always frowned upon just as it is frowned upon to get our understanding of what we are reading on our own and not within the apostolic understanding that comes from the Church.
Protestants did the same thing. They forbid their members from reading Catholic Bibles and their interpretation of passages always seems to come out just as the denomination says it should; so if you are Baptist the interpretation is Baptist and if you are Methodist your interpretation is Methodist and so forth. Everyone, except you (anti-religion types) has always read the scriptures within their own tradition. You chose the KJV and you damn anyone that uses another version . . . as you think they are bogus. But who made you an expert on translations and interpretations of the Bible? Nobody. You take it upon yourself . . . you are your own expert.
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Unauthorized versions. The scriptures are the Lords, not the CCs, no matter what it claims. Its funny, you catholics say those books were unauthorized and bad but you never say what was bad about them. The prohibition by the CC didn’t say only bad bibles were prohibited, just any bible in their native tongue. I use the KJV because of habit. Lots of other ones are fine. I don’t recommend the catholic bible for reasons ive mentioned. Plus it has 7 obvious fraud books in it. So anyway good brother scoop, do you agree that anyone with a bible in their own tongue should be burned to death? That’s all I want from you now…is a simple answer. Is possession of a bible reason to be strapped to a pole and burned alive? I await your answer. Thanks in advance.
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O, the Scriptures were written by God and given to us in the King’s English? I thought that they were written in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and that the human authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I didn’t know that they are guaranteed to be precise once translated by anybody that comes along.
The reason the CC didn’t specify any Bibles was because there were no Bibles outside of the Vulgate that were available for sale and look on your chart to see how many people could actually read at the time much less comprehend or interpret the text according to the original apostolic meanings.
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A citation is required to answer your last foolish question. Please provide one. I will also thank you in advance since you won’t be able to do so.
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Good brother, im aware the originals were written in Hebrew and greek. But thank you for reminding me.
Do you agree is was a good thing to burn alive people who were caught with biblers, of any translation? The prohibition didn’t specify bad translation. It specified any translation. Do you agree with burning alive as suitable remedy ?Thanks in advance.
Im on my way to a chess tournament. Ill be anxious to see your answer. (;-D wish me luck
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And it did not say that people would be burned if they were caught with a Bible did it. It simply stated that they were forbidden. That means under penalty of sin, Bosco. One can go to Confession and get rid of a silly translation in some romance language that mangles the meanings of the original. That is why you need some scholarly inspection of texts to this day. At the time (the 1200’s) who do you think the Biblical Scholars were and were to be found? In the Catholic Church. There was no other. Would you go to a Muslim or some heretical sect that spun off from the Church? A gnostic perhaps? Or even a language scholar who did not believe in God at all? No. If you wanted to understand Scripture you went to the Church.
Now if Bibles were banned how did St. Francis, who could recited the entire Bible from memory, get his hands on one in the early 1200’s? I’ll tell you how. His father was a rich merchant and so he became educated and had the means to purchase one. It was his reading of scripture that led him to give up all of his riches and take up the monastic life. Now why wasn’t he burned at the stake you idiot? Because nobody, unless some blood-thirsty sinning Bishop would ever do that? It was not a Church law that people were to be burned. Some foul people are always in the Church for some reason or other and do bad things but the Church did not teach such things. But for all the scandals that were prophesied by Christ they are made up for by the saints and the martyrs of the Church . . . and it will be so even after the bad batch that we have today. You don’t think the martyrs of the Coliseum who sang on their way to getting fed to the lions counted for much in the eye’s of the Church? No, of course not. It is because if you can find even one bad Catholic it makes a sham of the Church in your mind. No wonder you don’t accept any religion. You can’t find any that don’t have sinners in them. O, except for you and the other people who say they are saved. None of you say with the apostles that you are working out your salvation with fear and trembling as you ought. No, for that would not be fair for you to have to engender the virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity. You don’t need them . . . you don’t need anything except a firm belief in your own feelings. And you feel that you are saved. So good for you, brother. I hope you are right.
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Bosco, you need to understand how rebelling against Church authority has hindered the unity of the Body of Christ. This may be of interest, or not, whatever.
Ecclesiastical Unity Requires Authority
Ephesians 4:11-16 is a passage that knocked me off my chair when I was thinking through these issues and being drawn to the Catholic Church. In this passage St. Paul is discoursing on the oneness of the Church. In this context, he says something I had read a million times and yet its significance had escaped me.
He says that God gave to His Church pastors and teachers specifically in order to build the Church up in unity.
[He gave] pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God … so that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.
Clearly, it’s God’s will that Christians not be “tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine,” but that the Church be unified as one. That is God’s will. And to that end, He gave His Church pastors and teachers.
I remember the day I read this passage and the realization came to me: The arrangement St. Paul is describing here could only work if the pastors and teachers God has given to the Church have some authoritative body of teaching to which they are all bound.
How can pastors and teachers be instruments of unity in the Church if each of them is free to exercise a right of private judgment and decide for themselves what Scripture is teaching?
As the 500-year history of Protestantism has demonstrated, when each pastor and teacher is free to “decide,” they come to very different views. Some say Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are merely symbolic rites, others that they are grace-giving sacraments. Some conclude that the Church is to be ruled democratically, others by elders, still others by bishops. Some insist that we are saved by faith alone and that once saved, a Christian cannot lose his salvation. Others insist that salvation involves the believer’s cooperation in faithful obedience and that it most certainly can be lost … and so forth with a number of other doctrinal and moral teachings.
And because these pastors and teachers do not agree with each other, guess what? They become the very ones stirring up the wind and waves of doctrine and tossing the children of God back and forth!
Rather than serving as God-given agents of unity in Christ’s Church, pastors and teachers within the framework of sola Scriptura and the right of private judgment turn out to be the prime agents of division.
This is precisely what has occurred. https://chnetwork.org/2018/06/26/luther-the-rest-of-the-story-part-vi-application/?utm_source=Ken%27s+List&utm_campaign=1f27acc862-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_06_26_06_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5e6789fe04-1f27acc862-374497833
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iLL CONTINUE THIS AT BOTTOM IN LARGER COMMENTBOX
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Seems the Holy Spirit is taking charge, Bosco. He changes your name to the more appropriate Bozoboy and has blocked or sabotaged your more blasphemous statements. Maybe you should worry that God is not pleased with what you write. A world to the wise . . . though I doubt you would believe such a thing possible.
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“In the earlier years, of the era, where monks alone were the scribes, as I said, it would take the better part of a year to make one or two copies of one book, since a monks day was never just writing. As the years passed, and secular persons were used, who could concentrate on only writing, the time required was shortened.
As Mr. Durden pointed out, there was no such thing as the Bible as we know it, not even through to the end of the manuscript era. The testaments were (usually) separate, as was the apocalypse, the psalms, etc. It wasn’t until the print era (typesetting) that everything was combined into one work. If you were a landed noble (i.e. wealthy) you might contract a codex of the gospels and get it in a year’s time. (but probably not, as you most likely couldn’t read anyway.)”
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Good brother scoop,the people in the CC clergy had the scriptures.. The lay were forbidden the scriptures. Not that the clergy mangled the scriptures which is what you have today. Face first to the ground befor graven images.
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So St. Francis was clergy? Not when he was reading the Bible, Bozo. So best try a new tact as this one isn’t working for you.
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Something is wrong with this lousy site. My name keeps getting changed to bozoboy. I am Bosco the Magnificent.
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good brother Steve brown, you knowhow we cut and paste a sentence or two and then rebut it? But your comment cant be cut into little sentences and rebutted. Your whole comment should be a new post. Yes, the word of god is distorted everywhere, to the pastors advantage. Benny Hin is rich. Creflo Dollar is rich. The CC is rich. Im going to sleep now but will continue when I wake.Thank you good brother Steve.
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