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church, church politics, Faith, history, orthodoxy, United States
Several things caught my eye in Philip’s excellent article the other day. I hate writing posts in commboxes (although I do it far too often), so I thought I would discuss it here.
The first comes from the Catholic Herald, always a good source of information.
[O]n 8 April, I made the 2.5-hour drive to the National Shrine of Divine Mercy Shrine in Stockbridge, Massachusetts for Divine Mercy Sunday. And how could I not? Judging by the licence plates in the parking lots, pilgrims travelled from every corner of the United States. According to the programme, many more flew over from Europe. I practically live down the street.
It was a deeply moving occasion, despite Mother Nature’s lack of cooperation: it was finger-numbingly cold, with snow flurries dropping in and out. Yet 15,000 pilgrims descended on the little mountain town, bundled in parkas and blankets. Some charitable souls drifted through the crowd passing out hand warmers.
Aside from the official proceedings, what struck me most was the demographic make-up. There were Hispanics, Filipinos, Africans, and Chinese – but hardly a Caucasian in sight. That’s grossly unrepresentative of the national Catholic population: 59 per cent are white, 34 percent are Hispanic, 3 per cent are Asian, and 3 per cent are black.
Of course, this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with trends in migration. Immigrants, whatever their faith tradition, tend to be more devout than their native-born counterparts. This is true even in countries like Sweden, where predominantly-white immigrants from Poland are contributing to a boom in the Catholic population.
But are these new Catholics a permanent feature of American and Western European countries? That seems doubtful. A new Gallup polldemonstrates that the rate at which Catholics attend Mass continues to fall since 1955, from 75 per cent to 39 per cent. This, despite the fact that the nominal Catholic population has grown considerably thanks to mass immigration from South America. Meanwhile, attendance at Protestant services has remained fairly stable.
The lack of Protestant immigration actually gives them an advantage with this metric. The children or grandchildren of immigrants who stop practising the faith are more likely to identify – if only nominally – with their family’s religion. Because Catholic immigration is so high, there are many “cultural” or “lapsed” Catholics: those who identify with the Faith, but don’t attend Mass. Meanwhile, Protestants who have “un-churched” are more likely to identify as irreligious.
True enough, out here the Catholic Church is made up of probably close to a majority of Hispanics, of all ages, and who are treated quite badly by the established Anglo congregations, to the point of nearly two churches in one building. A good many of the Anglos strike me as mostly CINO’s (Catholics in name only). Given it is Hispanic immigration, I don’t see it as much in the Protestant churches but suspect it is mostly a lack of Hispanics not a difference in attitude.
The funny part is, Islam also has this problem, they too are losing the immigrants’ children.
Here, again, Pew’s study of Islam in America is enlightening. Nine per cent of ex-Muslims converted to a different faith, and one per cent said they were actively searching for a spiritual path. That means only 10 per cent remain open to engaging with organised religion. The other 90 effectively become secular or “spiritual-not-religious”, which usually amounts to the same thing.
Apparently, it is something in the air in America. part of it, of course, is the churches themselves, I’m not a particularly regular attendee myself. My local church is good on liberal platitudes, on real (what some call, muscular) Christianity, not so much. Other choices such as LCMS are quite inconvenient for me, perhaps it will solve itself, or God will show me a way, but for now, that’s how it is.
In a Federalist article, Mathew Cochrane notes that one of the weaknesses of our churches is that we are driving away men. He quotes Ross Douthat’s “God and Men and Jordan Peterson” New York Times column to good effect.
The men fled; the women stayed.
That’s the story of Easter weekend in the New Testament. Most of Jesus’ male disciples vanished when the trouble started, leaving his mother and Mary Magdalene and other women to watch by the cross, prepare his body for his burial, and then (with the men still basically in hiding) find the empty tomb.
Male absence and female energy has also been the story, albeit less starkly and dramatically, of Christian practice in many times and places since.
Except that is not true, all concerned missed the real story, didn’t they? How many times had Jesus told them he would rise from the dead? None of them, not a single one, believed Him – they went to the tomb to properly prepare his corpse and were gently chided by the Angel:
“Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise” (Luke 24:5-7).
There is also this,
As one blogger quickly pointed out, two key issues with Douthat’s presentation of the story highlight a disregard for men. First is the enormous factual error: Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, both men, were actually the ones to prepare and bury Jesus’ body (John 19:38-42) while the women watched (Luke 23:55-56) and returned with additional spices several days later. Unlike Douthat, Mark the Evangelist is quite right to observe that Joseph “took courage” before going to the guy who just had Jesus executed and asking him for the corpse (Mark 15:43).
Yep, that’s how you are going to attract men, NOT.
Interesting statistics and there is much that needs be thought about by our churches. I saw another piece recently that pointed out that if the husband does not go to church with the wife and kids only 2% of the kids remain in the faith.
I think of the Orthodox Jews who have preserved their faith longer than we have. They had a matriarchal society (you are a Jew if your mother is a Jew) but a patriarchal religion (it was man’s work, leadership, place in the family). A man needs to have something that is important, is his duty and he is willing to fight to the death to defend. And without that manliness, the church becomes a women’s club with children until they make their own decisions and leave.
Feminism to me is the culprit (the egalitarian aspect especially) that has destroyed both the family and the faith of many who had been born into a Christian heritage. Men then become lukewarm and eventually cold to the idea of religion, marriage no longer becomes fashionable, they are no longer the operative, active force in the spirituality of the family and it then becomes women’s work. So the feminists have been largely emancipated from housework and child rearing in many homes and they now have taken on the visible religious headship of the family which has men leaving in droves; for their is nothing very manly about faith anymore as it seems more a political call for equality, social activism and women’s freedom. Nothing to die for and nothing to dedicate one’s life to; football on TV seems a better and more manly way to spend Sunday in many parishes.
Question is: Now that the damage is done and we have fewer dads in the homes and fewer men in the parishes, how do we turn it around? I think its like Pandoras box. I don’t know that we can. I truly think that we are seeing the decline that Christ hinted at when He asked if, upon His return, there would be any faith left. Good question.
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I saw that as well, there’s another on the theme tomorrow, and likely one more. Maybe we’ll think of something, remember the last item in Pandora;s box was hope.
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Indeed it was. And that is the answer to why immigrants have the faith and family in proper order. The poor and oppressed see quite clearly that the only people on earth they can truly trust and rely on is their family. They also know that their only hope in life lies in God. And as soon as they replace the trust in family with trust that a country will give them a safety net, their hope becomes more focused on self-reliance and they become more like everyone else and fall under the sway of the lies of the world (unless they can keep that family thing going for awhile).
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Yep, the wisdom of the family is something that can be counted on, or was untilled so many decided that Uncle Sugar was the best patriarch ever. I don’t have a real problem with local government providing a safety net . A reasonably energy allotment, a place to hang your hat, and food, for a few months, but it is not a career path.
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Indeed not but it serves the purpose of the left to get votes, rip apart families and drive religion from homes.
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Here’s a blast from the past.
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POLLEN! It’s the pollen. Until Spring is over, I have a sinus headache. UGH! I think I want to move to Arizona. Seriously.
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How well I know that feeling, Ginny! My sympathy, tempered though it is that we have a blizzard warning for tonight.
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That darn global warming will be the death of us all.
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Global warming is a HOAX!
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I hear it, they say we may get about 10″ of globull warming to go with 55 mph NW winds, Lovely.
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We might get down into the high 60’s on Monday . . . brrrrr!
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Indeed, Wednesday was nearly 80, go figure.
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Al Gore could explain this to you if you ask him.
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I’m sure, with as little credibility as he usually has. Wouldn’t want to increase his carbon footprint by flying out here, anyway! 🙂
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I don’t know he might like to cool off in the snow after all this global warming. 🙂
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The hot air would probably melt it, at that! 🙂
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Good point!
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On a much more serious note, the only reason I go to Church is to find Jesus, Who I love. That’s it. I’m there to worship my God and that is where He is found. In His House. My Father’s House. He said He would be there with us until the end of time. He keeps His Word.
I spent over 5 hours at Adoration yesterday. I’m not saying that to brag, so please don’t detract that way from my statement. But I sat and prayed and worshipped and adored my Blessed Lord. I thanked Him for the great privilege of just being there, in His Presence. I love my God and there is no place on this earth I’d rather be. Everything else is a distraction. If I could do this every day, I would. I wait to go on Thursdays each week. I look forward to it all week. I prayed my usual prayers and read a book for a while. I conducted our Divine Mercy Prayer Group prayers at 3 o’clock. We had 8 persons participating yesterday. I am responsible for the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament at my local parish. I’m there for the Mass in the morning and make sure all the other Regular Adorers fill their hours and when they can’t, I cover them either myself or get another. I am there at the conclusion when our Eucharistic Lord is Reposed. I tell Him “Good – night and goodbye!” till we meet again. It really is a great privilege to be able to serve my God in this capacity. I’ve loved Adoration ever since I became Catholic and was shown this particular devotion. It is a great thing to have. I encourage others to pay regular visits to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament whenever He may be exposed for Adoration.
If people loved Jesus and desired to follow Him, they’d come to Church and cast themselves upon their knees before Him naturally.
When I am lifted up, I will draw all peoples to myself. Jn. 12:32. He does still.
But the truth is, not everyone who comes to Church is there for this reason. And that is the real problem. When you love Someone, you want to spend time with them. Church is the place to do that. But, those who aren’t in love with Jesus, are there for other reasons and those other reasons lose their ability to draw the folks in. That is why people leave. It is the heart of the matter. Conversion is falling in love with Jesus. That’s really why the Desert Fathers went into the desert, why the Virgin Martyrs died horrifying deaths, why the Apostles became who they were. I could go on, but my time is short. God bless Ginnyfree.
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No denigration from me, Ginny. In fact, that’s the heart of my problem, my church is distracted by the world from our Lord. Goon on you!
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Neo, do not give the devil an opportunity. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Do you really think the problem is the things distracting you at Church? Nope. The reality is that the devil seeks to destroy your relationship with Christ and despair works well for him. Despair over the sad state of affairs in the Church in general or at the Mass in your parish in particular is an opportunity for the devil. You are there for God and Him alone. Everything else, the social stuff, the music, the settings, the decorations, all of that is supposed to draw you either closer to Him, or push you away. If you are getting all caught up in the nonsense, then your focus isn’t on Him anymore anyway. The world and your local church you cannot change, but your attitude makes all the difference in the world. I will of course, suggest you spend some time in Adoration at a chapel near you. No matter what, if you do so for a few months consistently, your prayer life will improve and so will everything else. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Excellent point, Ginny.
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PS Here is a live perpetual Adoration chapel livestreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqW1lENuph0
If you follow the link, there are others listed. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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If anyone say…..god is here or lo, god is there, believe it not.
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Hey Bozo, look up the definition of omnipresence, then get back to me. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Yes good sister, I went and looked up that word. Means everywhere. If gods everywhere, why do you have to go somewhere to stare at him? You can sit in your easy chair or run to the liquor store to see him.
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I enjoyed this post, NEO. It’s nice to see you writing here again. I like your perspective on things. To be quite frank, we also need to be able to talk about how many of us are not going (regularly) and why. What we intuitively feel is missing or what is drawing us away.
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When I run across things more appropriate here, like this. Well, you know it about as well as anyone by this point! 🙂
It’s an important point, and yes, it’s not so much that it drives me away, as that it does not attract me enough to make the effort. Ginny’s point is very valid though, I may skip service regularly, doesn’t mean I’m not found there on occasion, when I need a clearer channel upstairs.
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I haven’t been to many services this year, for a variety of reasons. I still believe, though I have my moments of doubt and despair, but I feel like something is missing. Unfortunately, this is not the sort of thing rational thought can handle by itself. Is it simply that I have moved away from God or is it that this format of church isn’t right for me anymore or a combination of the above plus other factors? Can’t say.
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Neither can I, really. But my intuition says that this church isn’t fulfilling my needs, in some way.
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Your are right, Nicholas, something is missing pretty much everywhere and Christianity has been hijacked by the petty concerns of this world. Lack of spirituality and formation leads to prayers that are more a cry of despair than a shout of joy and tears of shame for our misdeeds. Holiness seems as rare as a unicorn and sadness overwhelms those who seek it. And you are right about rational thought. There is is nothing rational that would draw me to go to Mass except that it is my duty. So I may suffer for an hour a week with our Lord and leave the parish feeling rather sad. It is the least I can do; even if I now find it harder than ever to even pray. It seems that somebody turned everything upside down and that what once was good is bad. Nothing rational in all of that.
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Indeed. I feel in some spiritual sense like God is leading a new Exodus out of Egypt – perhaps my subconscious meditating on Revelation’s description of Jerusalem (?) as “spiritually called Sodom and Egypt”. Like Abraham, true believers look for the Jerusalem that is above. Like the holy people persecuted in the days of Antiochus, true believers must live in (metaphorical) caves in the desert, perhaps. I don’t know. I recall a spiritual dream I had once though which might have some metaphorical meaning in all of this. I took it literally at the time, but perhaps it was saying something else as well / instead.
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I don’t know about all that but I do recognize within my own lifetime how common terms and common ethics has deteriorated to some lowest common denominator. That too has happened to a great extent within Christianity as well. But Christ, knowing this would happen, died for our sins anyway and I do believe, at the least, that He left Sacraments that will never lose their value for our redemption. So even if God is not treated like God anymore in the parish, we must know that He is not in any need of our worship for He is God whether we worship Him or not. It is us that need to worship Him and that, in a sense, to bear with a lowest common denominator liturgy is in our best interest, not His. We need the Sacraments and they are the only thing that will eventually overcome this religious torpor I think we are all feeling at the moment.
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Even if we do not use sacramental language, I think many Protestants would echo your thoughts by talking about longing for the presence of God. The “presence” as used in Hebrew is special: the Shekinah, which burned unholiness away in the days of the Tabernacle and Temple. The New Covenant has changed things, but there is still the longing for the full glory, which will not appear until the return of Christ: the New Jerusalem that has the presence of the LORD as its light, which Ezekiel described as the LORD is there.
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Well the “Bread of the Presence” or the “Face” was very much a part of the Hebrew worship. To Catholics, that is the model that was fulfilled in the Eucharistic Bread of our Liturgy. So yes, the LORD is there.
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Well, we shall have to see what comes. I feel like a fire is building that will sweep through.
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You may well be right. I don’t see how things can stay the same as they are now. I can see it getting much worse before it is restored again however. But just like we are trapped in a global storm right now that engulfs the planet I think you are right. God can and will in time come as a whirlwind of fire and purify us by burning up all of the corruption.
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Very true that. God doesn’t need us, but we surely need him.
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I am despairing at my own parish. I’ve had three sessions of ‘discussion’ group which the first two drew a minimal response. I put in countless hours of reading and research to be able to help catechize each other.
So, this time I went with the approach of using Flannery O’Connor, a literary figure often praised in Catholic circles, now I find myself with a fuller room full of open dissenters of the faith (the last session one remarked how the Church’s stance a defense and Just War is misguided …which I thought if I pummel you right now would you resist?). Quite frankly, if this is the crowd that O’Connor attracts, I say leave her in the past! I’m to the point after the last two weeks with the less than honorable remarks made about our Bishop and rejection of established Catholic doctrine to end these discussion groups altogether.
I am sure some would argue that it’s a mission to profess to these people but more or less, I believe it’s throwing pearls to swine.
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I would probably go with ‘pearls before swine’ interpretation. It seems that there is a split between orthodoxy (the smaller group) and the activist group (gaining in strength) and the indifferent middle that doesn’t seem to think about anything or seem to care. It is sort of like politics now and I can’t even imagine holding political conversations with the leftists in our country and defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They are insane, angry and are getting rather violent these days. I think within the Church this apostate group of so-called Catholics are just like the far left liberals and getting egged on by many complicit cardinals, bishops and priests . . . not to mention the Pope who has whipped them up into a frenzy.
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Afraid I rather agree, in my church as well, and I get tired of pitch on my hands.
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I know what you mean.
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It was rather strange when I was looking at the group, sitting in a Catholic chapel and thinking about the irony of these unapologetic socialist looking at me. In the past weeks, my Orthodox Bishop has been berated for defending marriage, told that he Church should be an activist church (whatever that means), I had to assert that there is no Same-Sex marriage for the Church to recognize, told that Jesus was a socialist, told that people can’t be pro-life and pro-gun.
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They are simply secular political leftists who happen to have targeted the Catholic Church. They don’t believe anything the Church teaches so how do they call themselves Catholic?
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Same way Nancy does, I guess.
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Bishop Nancy, please. She seems to think that she is part of the hierarchy herself and answers to nobody.
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You know, she and Hillary! give me hope for the election this fall.
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Me too . . . but then these reactionary leftists are so ideological that they would vote for anyone that isn’t a normal human being.
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Very much so, as long as they refrain from thinking.
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They like to do their thinking while burning down their cities and looting the stores.
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Not as hard as woking for a living, and Uncle Sugar will pay them not to. Not that we’re needing their (non)skills.
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Robbery and burglary is a good vocation for Democrats it seems.
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Seems to be.
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That is a great example of what is wrong with the Church. Everyone knows that she disagrees profoundly with many of the teachings of the Church and yet she has no problem finding a parish each week to give her Holy Communion. Where are the principles and where is the virility of the Church gone. Are we quaking in our boots because she is an elitist or is it that we are simply a bunch of wimps?
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That’s a fine question for all of us that are more or less orthodox.
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The more they take over the more orthodox folks seem to be leaving. In the Catholic Church we are seeking all things Traditional now: even the SSPX which are not in full communion with the Church. And that was something most of us would have never conceived of doing in the past. But in times of necessity people will get desperate for the faith to be taught and holiness that inspires.
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Gresham’s Law applies to more than money. Bad drives out good in almost everything. Orthodoxy will survive, but from what I hear, you, Philip, and I may all end up in something very like the Confessional Lutheran Church, which is more orthodox than either of ours seems, often.
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Sadly, I can’t even find the SSPX near me. I am stuck unless I pick up and move.
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Much the same with me, sadly.
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Missouri Synod leadership is no joke but from my observations, they have division within their different congregations. I suppose logically this accommodating form of Christianity with the would can only cease to exist eventually.
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They do, but they seem to have less than most of us, or maybe not. I only know what I read.
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Also, this is strange, one person in the group claimed that atheist do not all believe in nothing. One of the other group members asked, “Well what do they believe happened when you die.” She didn’t have really an answer but it’s strange how one came to the difference of non belief in light of attacks on our Bishop. These people don’t even know where is up from down.
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Seems that way to me. About the only fill fledged ones I’ve dealt with are British, and many of them are Randian, well, I can understand, but still, something cannot come from nothing.
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Well, ya could say this: I’m pro-life and pro-gun. If I shoot you in self-defense with my legally owned gun because you came thru my front door unasked and seemed menacing, then the life I’m for is my own and if the shot was as good as my daddy taught me to shoot, well then, you’ll be needing a funeral. Then ask them if they are pro-funeral. Just sayin’……God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Concur, but you knew that.
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I’d say it is a mission, but there is also a case that it is casting pearls. I seem to remember that even Jesus gave up on occasion. Some people you just can’t penetrate even with a 2X4 upside the head, and that might well constitute a violation of just war theory, and others. I don’t know Philip, seems we all have the same problem.
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There are three enemies of every follower of Christ that we all have to battle to grow in the spiritual life: The World, The Flesh and the Devil. All 3 conspire against us once we get serious about Jesus. Just one of the facts of Life in Christ. But like He said, fear not, for I have conquered the world. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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