St. Athanasius writings were also responsible for much of the development and understanding of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. In the Liturgy of Hours, the reading for Trinity Sunday is taken from St. Athanasius’ First Letter to Serapion in which he writes:
It will not be out of place to consider the ancient tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church, which was revealed by the Lord, proclaimed by the Apostles and guarded by the Fathers. For upon this faith the Church is built, and if anyone were to lapse from it, he would no longer be a Christian, either in fact or in name…We acknowledge the Trinity, holy and perfect, to consist of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In this Trinity there is no intrusion of any alien element or of anything from outside, nor is the Trinity a blend of creative and created being (note: Christ’s Divinity here). It is a wholly creative and energizing reality, self-consistent and undivided in its active power, for the Father makes all things through the Word and in the Holy Spirit, and in this way the unity of the Holy Trinity is preserved…”[1]
How would any of you describe the Holy Trinity?
One time I was having a discussion with an atheist who had popped in the comment section of my blog who presented a challenge to all Christians. The challenge stated, “Name one unique idea created by Christianity.” After some other bloggers had offered ideas that were dismissed, and after I had presented Transubstantiation— only to be dismissed (even though it is unique)— I also presented the most glaring central doctrine of the Church, The Holy Trinity. However, the atheist rejected this as not being an original idea as he gave what he referred to as the Hindu trinity known as Trimurti. After I had looked into the Trimurti, I concluded that the Christian Trinity is truly unique, and this comparison to the Trimurti was a false equivalent.
Now to claim this is a false equivalent, one must have a better understanding of the most Holy Trinity. In the case of the Trimurti, the three gods are exactly that, three distinct gods that are reincarnated into an avatar known Datta, but regardless, Brahma still takes center stage in that religion. I explained their difference ultimately using the Athanasian Creed, Fr. Rengers reminds us of the Athanasius Creed, “consisting of 40 rhythmic statements, had been used in the Sunday Office for over a thousand years.”[2] —which I wish we would use more often— “So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God…So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another.”
During the conversation, I wish that I had the modern example given by Michael Pennock in This is Our Faith of a woman who is three different persons, although she is one woman. She is a Mother, a wife, and friend. I also wish I was more familiar with St. John’s of Damascus example, “The Father is the sun with the Son as ray and the Holy Spirit as heat.” All very distinct concepts, but from one source, and with one will. It is entirely different, a central doctrine and great mystery that is truly original to Christianity.
Finally, a great foundation for understanding the Holy Trinity rests in focusing on the Incarnation, The Word of God, Christ Jesus, Our Lord and Savior. Of course, as I’ve mentioned previously, unless we are fluent in ancient languages, we must read St. Athanasius in translation. However, one of the greatest teachers of our faith, and perhaps one day will be honored as a Doctor of the Faith, Bl. John Henry Newman writes on the Incarnation:
“This was the new and perfect tabernacle into which He entered (the body); entered, but not confined, not to be circumscribed by it. The Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; though His own hands ‘made it and fashioned it,’ still he did not cease to be what He was, because He became man, but was still the Infinite God, manifested in, not altered by the flesh. He took upon Him our nature, as an instrument of His purposes, not as an agent in the work. (The Incarnation is not a creature) What is one thing cannot become another; His manhood remained human, and His Godhead remained divine.”[3]
[1] Rengers and Bunson, 8.
[2] Ibid.
[3] Dave Armstrong, Quotable Newman (Sophia Press: Manchester, 2012), 197.
Perhaps it would help to point to Proto-Trinitarian material in the OT and Apocrypha. Seeing the development between the OT and NT might help that atheist (if he is a sincere seeker, rather than a scoffer) to see that Christianity builds upon a genuine revelation that intersects with human history.
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Any good resources for OT Trinitarian development ?
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I think Michael Heiser’s “The Unseen Realm” is a good accessible book that touches on this. the problem with a lot of the academic books is that they are very expensive – many well over $100. If you have access to JStor or Academia.edu, it might be easier to get material from there. I’ll need to have a look at the bibliography and end notes to see what’s doable.
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This is a good article: “The Gospel of the Memra: Jewish Binitarianism and the Prologue to John” by Daniel Boyarin, Harvard Theological Review 94:3 (2001)
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One “what” three “who’s”.
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Well Catholics do practice that knowledge, but you may not recognize it hanging around exCatholic4christ spouting Anti-Catholicism with that ilk.
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Ahhhhh who does he serve? A different Christ? I think not. He just like you are my brothers in Christ….I don’t hide my dislike for some of the liturgy and what I consider “strange” practices of the Catholic faith. But I still love you – as I do him – both are my brothers in Christ ❤️
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And as Philip’s wife no doubt has told him, Lutherans, and Anglicans both agree on Athanasius and use his creed sporadically. It is a bit long for every Sunday, or so our congregations say. I suspect others do as well, it’s as good an explanation of the trinity as I know of.
From what Geoffrey said here, https://jessicahof.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/revisiting-the-trinity/ I must assume, Baptists agree as well. You’ll note that Geoffrey also linked to a series That Jessica did on the Trinity quite early.
Not that I don’t think it a very good idea to do so again. 🙂
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Yes, I know, Trinity. Silly keyboard! 🙂
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Our church services are extremely different than yours. I attended a Lutheran confirmation once for my step son, it was he weirdest church service I had ever attended. No one in my entire life has used anything other than the 66 Books of the Bible to preach a sermon from. First, we have a great praise and worship session where we raise our hands, dance to the Lord, and just get in the Spirit. Then the Pastor comes to the podium and gives us some meat from the Bible. Usually then he takes the scripture and preaches a message on its application in our lives…
Then a little more praise and worship while people come to the front and the elders and other members pray for people who are sick or in need…then we dismiss.
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Yep, that’s different alright. Not that I’m not saying that is a bad thing. What you’ve run into here is a group whose members are mostly members of liturgical churches, and our services are more alike than not. Our sources are all based on the Bible, as yours are, but we also listen quite carefully, especially to the Patristic Fathers. There is a pretty good discussion of why we do here:
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/patristics.html
I’ll quote some of it, because it comes up periodically:
“There are several reasons that it is important to study the Patristics: first, their theological and scriptural insights are very valuable in their own right. The Patristics lived much closer to the days of the apostles than we do, and they were forced to crystallize the apostolic teaching in response to the influx of various heresies and errors. Their formulation of trinitarian and christological doctrine was eminently biblical and foundational for true Christianity, and their homilies, apologetical and homiletical writings, and so on, contain innumerable valuable insights. Second, studying the Patristics gives us a much clearer understanding of the history of the Church, and acquaints us with how the ragamuffin band of apostles and the outnumbered and persecuted churches they started grew up into the Christianity that we recognize today. This acquaintance with Church history gives us a sense of continuity with the beginnings of Christ’s gospel accomplishment, and firmly tethers us to the community of saints worldwide and throughout the ages. Third, it is important to know what the Patristics say simply because, virtually every branch of professing Christendom respects them and wants to employ their writings in support of their own teachings. Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and most of Protestant Christianity all claim some degree of continuity with the Church Fathers. Defending those claims of continuity by an appeal to the actual writings of the Patristics is, therefore, a very valuable apologetic strategy. One very successful example of this kind of apologetic was Calvin’s Bondage and Liberation of the Will, where he expertly quotes the Scripture together with the early church fathers to refute the Roman Catholic view of grace and free will.”
I never tell a fellow Christian that they are doing our Faith wrong, but the connection with the teachers that followed soon after the Apostles themselves, adds a lot.
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I am educated to the early church History, and am familiar with many of those who formed Christianity. Many of their teachings are edifying and beautiful. I however believe that no mans reflections on the Lord should supersede the actual teachings of the Lord or deserve to be worshiped in the manner one would Jesus Christ.
We may belong to different churches but I maintain those that confess Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, who was crucified and rose on the third day to be the Atonement of sins…is my brother or sister in Christ. And according to my Bible I am to love you and it really isn’t that hard is it…when you are in Christ…to love others in Christ? The Bible uses tha analogy of a man loving his wife saying no man hates himself….is this not the same? We are all one in the body of Christ…it’s rather easy to extend love when you truly are in Christ.
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I agree with you, as I think all (perhaps save Bosco) here do. One of my long standing sayings is that the foot of the Cross is not a destination, but a junction. We come to the Lord in many ways, but all who believe according to the Nicean creed, which you just restated beautifully, are my sisters and brothers, whom I love, not as well as Christ, but I keep trying.
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There will be many things that when we stand before the Lord I am afraid we will all find we have dreadfully erred in….
Let not one of them be loving your brothers and sisters in Christ, this was not a suggestion from the Lord, it was a commandment.
I love what you wrote, that the cross is not a destination, but a junction. A place that should draw us all together, unity in Christ, that’s beautiful ❤️
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To be fair, he doesn’t take that approach.
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There is a lot of hatred and division within the church. I will use a non-Catholic example…the church of Christ here where I live. I did some sign painting and clean up at their church as a sort of Christian community service.
The Pastor invited me to attend…so I did the following Sunday. Their doctrine is one that I don’t agree with. He actually spent the time bashing Catholics for baptizing infants – bashing baptists because everyone knows you only get to heaven by being baptized in the Church of Christ by a Church of Christ Pastor.
I never heard something so loony in all my life…in his eagerness to point out everyone else’s wrongs…he missed his own….using Gods position to espouse his personal opinions. I do not go to church to hear someone’s personal opinions, I go to Facebook for that 😂😂😂😂 there are I think 22000 different denominations in the US. A new denomination starts after there is a conflict on the articles of salvation. This to me says there is ALOT of division in the Body of Christ.
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Good sister theway, there is no division in the body of Christ. There are division amongst the unsaved…that’s how it will always be. You mentioned that you thought it was weird that a church would preach that one had to be baptized and be a member of that church to have salvation. I take it you’ve never been to a catholic church. You cant be more bigoted than the catholic church. They are gods true church and everyone else is in error. Other religions say that too but the CC used to have teeth and would see to it that you died a horrible death if you weren’t catholic. Now they kill with false doctrine that keep its flock from knowing Jesus personally. You’ve got Diana and thousands of saints and their graven images who will help you. Jesus is too busy to deal with you.
Don’t be fooled….Jesus is the head of his body and the saved are his branches. The branches are people and need chastisement, but they are still his branches. the holy ghost doesn’t need a bunch of costumed holymen to protect his teachings or words. Jesus is the Word of God…and he needs no protection from perverts in big flowing ccostumes.
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hello
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It will not be out of place to consider the ancient tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church, which was revealed by the Lord, proclaimed by the Apostles and guarded by the Fathers
This is a prime example of Rat Poison. The formula for rat poison is 95% good food and 5% poison.
Some nice biblical sounding words and then toss in “the catholic church”. This leads the infirm of mind to believe the apostles and Christ himself authorized the CC. This is the diet that cradle catholics are fed from birth…that’s why only the power of the holy ghost can lead them to Christ. When I witness to cathols im called all manner of evil and devils. They don’t want to hear that Jesus stands at the door and knocks. they want graven images and lesbian nuns and pervert priests and the god cracker.
It takes a special kind of mindset to believe that Jesus sits on top of that pile of murder and vice and smiles with his arms open wide.
Jesus said himself that if he doesn’t personally know you, he will have you depart from him. Don’t be fooled into thinking staring at a cracker in a golden cage is knowing Jesus and supping with him.
Jesus says that he stands at the door and knocks. If any man open he will come in and sup with him.
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