It was, of course, the declaration of the dogma of Papal Infallibility, which was at the heart of Gladstone’s alarm; like many at the time – and since – he placed his own interpretation of those words based on his prejudices. If one believes that Catholics are mindless zombies under the sway of the Pope, then it is easy enough to see the word ‘Infallibility’ and assume the worst. In fact, the Council had agreed to a fairly circumscribed definition of that concept, and it was one in line with the practice of the Church.
In defending the claim to Infallibility, Newman skilfully trod a line between the boundaries staked out on one side, by the Protestants, and on the other by Manning and the Ultramontanes. A forensic exercise in Patristics showed up the Protestant claim that the Bishop of Rome’s pre-eminence was something unknown to the early Church. An examination of the history of the Faith showed that the State had always sought to exercise authority over the Church – and that Rome alone had resisted this – unlike Canterbury, Constantinople or Moscow. Thus, far from ‘repudiating ancient history’, as Gladstone claimed, ‘it is our fidelity to the history of our forefathers’, which was the real object of his attacks. Newman’s own personal consistency could be seen clearly: one of the basic tenets of Tractarianism had been its anti-Erastianism (Erastianism being the technical term for State control of the Church), and it had been, in large part, the undeniable signs of the submission of the Church of England to the State, which had pushed Newman (and Manning) along the road to Rome. The Catholic Church was what it had always been; Christ alone was its head.
Newman then took the fight to Gladstone, asserting that the Pope was the rightful heir ‘of the Ecumenical Hierarchy of the fourth century. Was it possible, he asked, to ‘consider the Patriarch of Moscow or of Constantinople, heir to the historical pretensions of St. Ambrose or St. Martin? Does any Anglican Bishop for the last 300 years recall to our minds the image of St, Basil?’[i] All the arguments from antiquity led to the same conclusion which was that: ‘We must either give up the belief in the Church as a divine institution altogether, or we must recognize in it that communion of which the Pope is the head.’ This being so, belief in ‘the Pope and his attributes’ was a natural part of being a Christian; there was, he asserted ‘nothing then of wanton opposition to the powers that be … [and] no pernicious servility to the Pope in our admission of his pretensions.’[ii] Then, in a clever thrust to the heart of his message, Newman disowned any evangelical purpose in his argument: ‘I do not call upon another to believe all that I believe on the subject myself. I declare it as my own judgement’; [iii] and there was the rub. Newman’s belief was founded not on docility or servility, but on a personal judgement based on historical and patristic foundations; others were welcome to come to different conclusions – but none could claim that personal conscience was not an attribute of Catholicism.
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[i] John Henry Newman, A Letter Addressed to His Grace the Duke of Norfolk on occasion of Mr. Gladstone’s recent expostulation (1875), p. 26.
You guys are funny.
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I once asked good brother Chalcedon that if being a raging unrepentant homo negates being a catholic priest. He said ..No. Being a flailing raging drug feuled orgy homo is fine and dandy with God. God still obeys the wicked priest because of the priests costume. This is what good brother Chalcedon said. If he would have said that being wicked negated being a holyman, then there would be no holymen in his religion.
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“Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.…” Matthew 23:1-3
A bad employer is still an employer. A bad judge is still a judge. A bad clown is still a clown. A bad priest is still a priest.
Why do you insist on being so stupid?
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If you want to be more exact, the chief priests back then were the law men. Now, here in the western world, we have a legal system separate from religions. Religions are nothing but clubs that one may join…..they are not the force of law anymore.
Jesus asks us to obey the laws even if the law men are corrupt.
I was just wondering if a catholic holyman still can command god to come down off his throne if the holyman is wicked. I wanted a catholic answer to that question. of course I don’t believe holy men are holy men. I just wanted to know how the CC handled this question.
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If God made Himself subject to Moses, how much more should we be ready to submit to the Church’s teaching? The principle is the same.
To your question: an evil priest validly confects the sacrament, provided he has the intention to do what the Church does and all the other usual conditions are met. It would be a peculiar and rare sort of malice that would render a mass, to all appearances valid and conducted in the usual way, invalid through want of the proper intention.
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Well, that’s interesting. And thank you for the answer.
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My pleasure.
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One more thing…. I wasn’t aware that God made himself subject to moses. That is something I need to see in writing,
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Jesus Christ is God the Son.
He was obedient unto death to the religious authorities in Rome, who as the scripture I quoted makes clear, sat in the seat of Moses. He forbade his disciples from rising up forcibly against them, saying to His disciple, “Return your sword to its place, for all who will take up the sword, will die by the sword.” (Matt. 26:52).
To give another scriptural example of submission to the Mosaic law, in His incarnation He submitted to circumcision , mandated by the Mosaic law, and Our Lady made the appropriate sacrifice of two turtle-doves on her purification in the Temple (Luke 2:21-24).
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Yes Quiav the Great, you are on track. I kinda misunderstood you earlier. Now im OK. Thanks.
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The structure of the Church reminds me of the legal system, with the Pope being parallel to the Supreme Court (formerly the House of Lords): his ruling on a matter on which he is competent to pronounce is binding.
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Papal infallibility. Another claim. I admire this religion for its guts. If one is to start a religion, one surely must claim that its the best thing going.
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Papal infallibility is a corollary of Our Lord’s teaching on the indefectibility of the Church (Matt. 16:18), and the power of binding and loosing conferred on Peter and his successors (Matt. 18:18).
It is the “active ingredient” which preserves the Church’s magisterium from falling away finally from the Faith. Since Peter has the power to bind and loose, it follows that he must be preserved from any error fatal to good morals and Holy Faith, if the Church is to be guaranteed to survive until the end of time.
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P.S. This of course only applies when discharging his office of “binding and loosing”, essentially, when defining dogmata.
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HHHMMMMm , I see. Thanks. Of course im suspicious of these kind of things. We all put our pants on one leg at a time.
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C, good series.
Any comment (or a post, maybe) on Deacon Nick? He just asked the question; “What on earth is a pro-abortion Anglican doing on a body which was founded with the purpose of promoting and defending human life?”
http://archbishopcranmer.com/protect-the-pope-francis-destroying-catholic-nature-church/
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