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Bosco’s continued presence here prompts a few reflections in anti-Catholicism. His own blog is full of bile about the Catholic Church. What should be the attitude towards someone with such an attitude posting comments on a blog which does not share that biliousness? On my part of it my view is clear. Those who wish to engage in serious argument and can keep their language clean are welcome; those who wish to insult others can find some other place to do it.
There is nothing original in Bosco’s arguments. Jack Chick’s sad little tracts are the modern source for myths which were well-described by Edward Norman in his book on anti-Catholicism in Victorian England. The Internet age is the perfect breeding ground for those myths. Simply stating something is so is not showing that it is – but on the Internet it is enough.
It beggars belief that an intelligent person can give credence to legends about Babylonian fish hats and beads; but anyone who thinks that the letters IHS stand for ‘Isis, Horus and Seth’ will believe anything. Christians hold the name of Jesus to be above all names. ‘IHS’ is a Christogram used by early Christians and represents the first three letters of ‘ IHSOUS’ – the Greek version of Jesus.
It is equally staggering that anyone can claim that just because someone bows their head towards a cross on which there is a representation of the King of Glory, that they are ‘worshipping’ the object and not whom it represents. Fathoming the depth of ignorance which makes assumptions about what is in the hearts of another by their action is something few would wish to do. No Christian worships a statue; anyone who seriously makes that claim about a Christian disqualifies himself from that description.
Veneration of the Virgin Mary is something which goes back further than our written records. Luther and Calvin both venerated Mary. Orthodox Christians do so. A small minority of all the Christians who have ever lived do not. That minority needs to be acquainted with the history of their faith.
Christ wrote no book. It was not until the early fourth century that there was anything like an agreed Canon. Christians in the first century did not go around saying ‘where is that in Scripture?’ How strange that those who wish to be like the first Christians should be so unlike them and refer everything to a book which they did not have.
There is not the slightest point referring to all the sins committed by those in the Catholic Church. That is not a proof it is not God’s Church. No Christian is impeccable. Even the successor of St. Peter, who is infallible on issues of doctrine and faith under certain closely defined conditions, is not impeccable, or, outside those conditions, infallible. It is those who claim to read the hearts of others who claim general infallibility for themselves, something far in excess of anything any Pope has even thought to claim.
In the beginning Christ had twelve Apostles. One of them betrayed Him to His enemies, the rest ran away at His hour of greatest need; the modern Church is no better than the Apostles.
There are many reasons for supposing that the Catholic Church has been a less than perfect vehicle for the spread of the Gospel, and all of them lie in the sinfulness of man. That is why we all stand in need of redemption.
A baseline definition of ‘Christian’ would be one who believes in the ancient creeds. Having belonged to three such churches, I am happy with that definition. It happens that for me the Catholic Church is the one which best fits. I have no problems with any Church which accepts the creeds. I have no time for those churches which are built on no more than emotionalism. There is a content to Christianity; always has been; will be until He comes again.
When any idea of objective truth is lost, all we are left with is “My truth or your truth.” In the intellectual chaos that ensues, “emotionalism” will always win because the only way “my truth” can trump yours is by my appeal to the emotions alone. I note that the news on TV seems to be dominated by “emotionalism” of this sort; unless you are seen to be weeping, you are judged to be in wrong.
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Indeed – what matters is the appearance of virtue
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Quite. Agree completely, except that I ended up in a different place, the other bank of the Tiber, so to speak. But that may well have to do with where I, and you, live. To be sure, I am far more ‘catholic’ than my corporate church, and indeed, from what I have seen, may well be far more ‘catholic’ than most of my local Catholics.
And that’s important, my definition of Christian is also, “subscribes to and believes the ancient creeds”, they span all the orthodox churches. Well, none of that is surprising really. I seem to remember that about five years ago, one who knows us both well, said we are the same man, separated by a hundred degrees of longitude. Near as I can tell, correctly, at least 98%. And yes, that was one of the best compliments I ever received.
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Nice to be reminded of that, Neo 😊
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Indeed so. Often in my thoughts, just not often said.
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Bosco does have a point in emphasising relationship with the Trinity, however (although, I really wish he would reform). For most of my life I have spoken to God, and taken it for granted that He is listening. To be struck by the absence of God is more than deafness – it is Hell. Nevertheless, I am in agreement with the post (except maybe for the position regarding Scripture in the early Church). Like you, I’d like to see Bosco clean up his act: we provide a witness here. I hope that any non-believers who come here are left with something of Jesus – and nothing of the Devil.
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Funny, by exposing, or rather repeating whats going on at the very top of the catholic church, im considered vile and nasty. And my nasty site has pictures of real catholics and priests…no photo shops. This is a matter of shooting the messenger.
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No, your site concentrates on one minority interest – you seem obsessed with it – perhaps get help?
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My obsessed site is deadly accurate. it has real photos of real cathols in their natural habitat……on their knees befor wood and stone. Of course I tossed in a little romance for the sake of interest. You know, catholic priests and their love interests with each other, and what have you.
Come visit and sign in and become a member. Glad to have you
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
See ya there (;-D
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It is vile, and manifestly the fruit of malice and bigotry, to repeat the same baseless tawdry claims ad nauseam against the Church, when these have been refuted repeatedly by commentators here, and to seek constantly to tar all Catholics with the same very broad brush, by extrapolating from the enormous sins of a few wretched individuals.
Idolaters worship idols quite openly. They will tell you, “I worship Baal; he lives in this little wooden man.” There aren’t many of the traditional sort left in the Western world. If Catholics are supposed to be idolaters, why do we deny it? A sorry sort of idolater, if you ask me, who is constantly saying, “No, I do not worship this statue as a god”. One would have thought the gods would get very angry at this kind of negative treatment.
Catholic doctrine condemns all the kinds of crimes you claim to expose.
Some people are bad Catholics. But the saints are all good Catholics.
You, on the other hand, are just a bigot.
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I am guilty of breaking all the commandments. If one breaks any one of them, one has broken all of them. Same penalty for breaking any one of them. I am an idolater, a murdered, and adulterer, a thief.
So what my job is…..is to tell people the good news that jesus rose from the dead and is alive and rite here with us and one can ask him to reveal himself.
And in the meantime, I tell people to get out of a religion that has its flock bowing befor the works of their hands, and keep their kids away too. All religions are hollow, but when they provide graven images for their flock to bow befor, that makes them wicked.
I understand Lutherans are no better than cathols. I wasn’t aware of this till lately. they have costumes and hold up Diana and other things the cathols do. Anglicans are in the same boat…they just don’t care about letting everyone know their priests are gay.
Im called a bigot because I expose the seamy underbelly of a false religion. I had no beef with the catholic church until someone pointed things out to me….and he was catholic himself. of course he got out and is following Jesus.
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Just shake the dust from your sandals and move on to the next field of mission work. in other words, as he does not add anything to the discussions, cease allowing him to comment on your blog.
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Bite me
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Ordinarily, I know good brother Chalcedon to be of the highest character. But he has this way of twisting what I say in attempts to discredit my message and me. To make me look foolish, wrongfully.
He always says that I accuse him and his fellow Mary worship0ers of worshiping statues. I don’t and never have. its his guilty conscience that makes him feel that way.
The commandment says, and you can look it up in the KJV because the catholic bible removed it, it says not to worship graven images or to BOW befor them. Can we all read? It says not to worship OR bow to them. In my worshipful site I have pictures of Diana worshipers bowing befor her graven images.
You see, good brother Chalcedon cant say that he and his fellow Semiramis worshipers don’t bow befor them. that would make him look dumb. So he says Bosco says we worship them.
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My dear chap, just reread your comments
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I know what ive said, and I know what I think, and I know what I see. I warn people.
Im a watchman.
I warn people of false religions.
I see people on their knees befor wood and stone, carved by their own hands, and I warn them that god hates this. he is jealous, and he states it clearly. And a religion that promotes this is antichrist.
But im a bad person for pointing this out.
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No, you are a bad person for pretending that there is only one side to the RCC.
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Ban him. He is nothing but a sounding brass – and cracked, to boot.
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Come on Quiav the Great, you are a champion of Catholicism. You can poke holes in my theology yourself. banning me is the easy way out. And we all know that you are not a chicken.
Hows the newest member of your house hold? Enjoy them while they are babies, because they grow up and know more than you. Mine knew more than me at six months.
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I’m not a chicken, Bosco – I am just desperately desperately bored.
You are a serial liar – you say all you ever get is name-calling and ipse dixit. That just isn’t so, and you know it. Chalcedon, amongst many others, has repeatedly and at length articulated our position, and you just don’t engage.
You say: you’re idolaters. We say, we’re not, because veneration of statues is referred to the person the statue represents, and not the statue, and Divine Worship is reserved for God alone. You just keep saying: you’re idolaters, and say “God has a problem with it.”
If that’s your argument, I trust God will put me straight in His own good time. Whatever it is, it’s not a good use of time for either party.
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I don’t just refer to cathols as idolaters….I refer to them as Mary worshipers also.
If the shoe fits.
But there is hope. Jesus is risen and can be called upon.
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Your posts are such an encouragement to me. They are full of things that need to be said. Thank you.
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Thank you very much – that is good to know 😊
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My dear friends, don’t feel special….I expose all manners of religions.
Then I offer a way, a better way.
Invite jesus in. Open the door to him. he will come in and sup with you. Then you can ask him anything you want. I mean anything.
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Having known him before you were born, shall we say that the Christ I know does not sound quite like whoever you have encountered – he loves truth and hates lies.
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well, of course.
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There’s no reason to ban Bosco. He truly represents a group of evangelicals that exist.
You can search for the tag “Catholic” and see other blogs. Whether I agree with him or not, this voice needs to be heard, responded, even ad nauseum, and refuted.
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Thank you good brother Phillip. I cant wait for someone to refute me. All the refutes up till now consist of calling me names, and blanket…say it aint so.
Oh, by the way, I just heard that the “think tank” at the vaticanus Haunted House has refused to make gluten free isis Horus and Seth crackers , for those who are allergic to gluten. Gluten really reeks havoc systemically on those allergic to it.
When all is said and done, after the costume waves his magic wand and does his incantations, its still a cracker. I guess the allergic faithful don’t get to eat God and get saved. Too bad.
may its time to go religion shoping at this point. Find one that has gluten free god.
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Bosco, I have refuted all your nonsense so many times.
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Maybe ill do another in depth post about your refutations. Like Quiav the great says…hes heard it all. But until im raptured ill continue to be a watchman. I have other ministries to atheists and Mormons and other mongrels. believe me, there are other things id rather do…..such as doing nothing.
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We have heard it, for years and years. Same old calumnious cobblers over and over again.
No progression. No reflection. No humility. No engagement – just bigotry and lies.
This is a members’ club, not a street corner. If a member cannot exercise quality control, there is no reason why the editor should not do so on his behalf.
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I sympathise with this comment. I have the sense that Bosco sees his day job as baiting Catholics.Even if it is agreed that in charity we should tolerate his bigoted comments, I think we should ignore some (most?) of them. I don’t see this as uncharitable. If/when he engages sensibly it would be a different matter.
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Good brother famphil , I take it you are catholic. yet you call be bigoted. Must I remind you that you believe your religion is gods true way and everyone else is wrong….everyone on earth and in the universe above. id call that bigoted….wouldn’t you?
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Bosco, she has been here almost as long as you have, and many of us have referred to the fact she is female – do keep up at the back off the class boy!
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Good brother famphillip is a girl?
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Well done that man – as she has been all her life
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In fairness, ive had to endure 5 yrs of endless philosophies and musings of old dead catholic writers and the endless mantra of how the CC was founded by Christ. Its no picnic for Bosco either.
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Very different from lies, calumny, or bigotry though.
I’m sorry if you find the effort of engaging with serious, thoughtful people excessively strenuous.
Perhaps you should opt for something less taxing, like colouring in; or is that forbidden by the 1st commandment?
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Oh, to be sure…..the folks here are serious about their religion.
You see, I was brought up protestant, if you will. Its not a religion….just walk in and sing, toss a dime in the basket, and listen to something or another the minister has dreamed up.Nobody cares.So, when told that Jesus is alive and want to know me and all I have to do is believe he can and ask, …well I had no reason not to. I wasn’t brought up being told that this church is the only way and I must attend or go to hell. I had bible school while the adults listened to god knows what. Most of it, if not all, going over both or heads. But we all had a grasp of the Christmas story. Salvation wasn’t nipped in the bud like we see in the big religion.
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Oh silly me, I’d forgotten Protestantism was not a religion.
St Francis of Assisi, St Philip Neri, St John of the Cross. Yes, indeed, their salvation was “nipped in the bud”. What could be more obvious?
Stop talking cobblers, Bosco.
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Hear, Hear
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Quiav the Great, those men you mentioned, im willing to bet none of them knew the Lord. I know….Jesus doesn’t want us speculating on who goes up and who goes down. But you mentioned these men as being saved. I, Bosco, maintain that they were not, because ive seen their writings, and for the simple fact that if you think they are the cats meow, they must be unsaved.
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Rash judgement is a sin, Bosco, but a tree is judged by its fruit. The fruits of the saints are the corporeal and spiritual works of mercy.
If you supposedly count as one of the vanishingly few ‘saved’ within the ambit of your peculiar definition, and the saints I have mentioned don’t, then I want nothing to do with the ‘salvation’ you have to offer.
Your fruits are these: lies, rash judgement, calumny, thinking evil of your neighbour, and bad spelling.
No thanks. You’ll have to do better than that.
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The born again know the Lords voice. I don’t hear it in these catholic saints. Sorry ol chap.
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Evidently, you’re deaf as a post.
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And daft as a brush 😊
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Good brother Chalcedon, whats going on with the new post? the comments are 4 yrs old.
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