There is a persistent strain in Christianity and Islam which emphasises that the nearer to the source, the purer the water; in both faiths we have seen, and we see, a search for ancient practices and belief. But the assumption behind this belief needs questioning, resting, as it does, on questionable assumptions.
The first of these is the notion that we can, in fact, extract a clear idea of ancient practice and belief from the surviving sources. Those scholars who have questioned whether there was in fact any concept of orthodoxy in the ancient church have emphasised a plurality of practice and implied something similar about belief; I am not entirely in agreement with them, but they have a point. We can construct only from what survives, and what survives will not give us a picture of everything, and even if it did, it would include much that is not orthodox. We could, of course, relive old arguments about Arianism, but on the whole I would advise against it (not least since there are ways in which we often rehearse them).
The second assumption to be questioned is the idea that what is older is purer in some way. Any history of heresy will tell you that heretical ideas go back to the beginning – we can see St Paul criticising them, and SS Peter, John and Jude all warn about those teaching incorrectly; from the beginning understanding and misunderstanding are mixed.
The third assumption is the one that implies that later is somehow more corrupt. This depends on a further assumption, which is that the Apostles understood the fullness of the relevation of Christ; there seems little evidence that this was the case. The assumption seems to be that at Pentecost the Apostles received not only the inspiration of the Spirit to speak in tongues and to go out as missionaries, but that they had a ful understanding of the nature of God as Trinity, and of Jesus as wholly-human and wholly-divine. If that were so, it was forgotten at once, as otherwise, when various heretics advanced what turned out to be misunderstandings of these things, the early Church would have cited Apostolic testimony to disprove them; this did not happen. Instead, the church did the hard work of trying to reach agreement on verses from Scripture which could be, were, and still are, read in different ways. Would it really be such a good idea to abandon these advances in understanding? On what ground, given the questioning of the various assumptions embedded in the argument that older is purer?
We are the inheritors of a rich and varied tradition of Christian practice and belief. No doubt we inherit some bad things and some good, but we should take care not to discard what is old simply because it is not new. To trespass on Catholic grief, it seems to me that this was one of the problems with the way Vatican II was interpreted; those who wanted to make all things new because they disliked the old, used it as an excuse to do something they already wanted to do. There was a similar development in Anglicanism in this country which I regret hugely – the abandoning of the Book of Common Prayer.
What is old and still works is sanctified by the use of our ancestors; we should not lightly abandon their heritage in pursuit of a mythical past.
Learning about church history is what brought me out of Protestantism and into Catholicism. And yet, the more I learn of church history and its developmental processes (continuing through today), the less dogmatic I’m inclined to be about our faith. The more I learn about our faith and its history, my vision gradually becomes less black and white and much more gray. It is a good laugh though, to point out the distinctly Catholic/Orthodox elements of early Christianity to those who insist on a naive view of some type of early primitive nondenominational evangelical church.
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To add on to my last sentence, while it’s often a favorite past time for us Catholics to use the historically-naive evangelical as an online whipping boy, I believe a great many online Catholics have equally naive primitivist views. I think we could all use a good dose of humility and stronger historical awareness of our faith.
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I think that would be a very good idea, Steven.
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Indeed, it tends to be for us main line Protestants as well, and I think the same prescription applies. Sadly, it can be fun, though.
In general novelty is quite dangerous as our predecessors knew, it is also necessary. It must be used cautiously, but it must be used. We do not live in 50AD or even 1517.
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Great post…thanks. The more I learn of the history of the Catholic Church the more I realize its gods true church.
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Truth will out, Bosco.
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Oh yes……not the history of what the CC has done…..but the history of what its sages say about the CC. Like Jesus always said….Ye shall know them by what they say about themselves.
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One can concentrate on the many negatives and ignore the many positives. It’s called confirmation bias.
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What is old and still works is sanctified by the use of our ancestors
Ah yes, right on. The CC should re ban the bible. It un banned it at Vat II. Its been banned under punishment of burning alive since 1250. I say bring back the good old days.
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It never banned the Bible. It banned bad translations. Do keep up at the back of the class.
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Who determines bad translations? How bad could they be? Be real…the CC would burn you no matter what if one had a bible. It didn’t want people to have bibles…..bottom line.
Uh, by the way, I hear Cardinal Pell is running out of luck hiding from justice in the Vatican. When it rains it pours. Tons more sordid news from Italian priests. I mean tons.
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Do cite one case where the church burnt anyone. Burning was the prerogative of the State, you know, like in your country where they still fried people in an electric chair until recently.
I don’t know about the USA, but in Australia, like the UK, we believe people are innocent until proven guilty. Perhaps in the US you still do witch hunts and trial by media?
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“Perhaps in the US you still do witch hunts and trial by media?”
Well actually…
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Oh, sorry…the catholic church never burned anyone to death for owning a bible. That was just my own weird prejudice crazy idea.
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It is. As I said, if you can prove otherwise, feel free. You can’t because they didn’t. It was the State which executed. Your version would be like saying ‘Judges executed people in the US’ – no, they did not. Indeed, the Church did not even judge the people, it was the State. Another epic fail for you.
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Yeah sure. Im not even going to entertain this conversation.
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Of course, because you can’t and you know it.
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No no no. When you start saying the CC never burned anyone alive, that’s when a sane conversation is ruled out.
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I see you remain unable to cite a single case. You can’t because it was the State, not the Church.
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Sure thing
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Several parishes in Italy have recently been at the center of scandals involving priests taking part in sex orgies, porn videos and prostitution. The allegations have sent shock waves all the way to the Vatican and are challenging the high standards that Pope Francis has demanded of clergy.
Several parishes in Italy have recently been at the center of scandals involving priests taking part in sex orgies, porn videos and prostitution. The allegations have sent shock waves all the way to the Vatican and are challenging the high standards that Pope Francis has demanded of clergy.
https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/03/10/claims-sex-orgies-prostitution-porn-videos-shake-catholic-church-italy/
Its not that there are weirdos everywhere….this is indicative of a priesthood of Nimrod. Its a crime syndicate disguised as a religion. It has from the very beginning. Its claims of being gods true church have fooled billions of people. These people refuse to open the door to Christ and find truth.
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As has been pointed out numerous times, Hislop, from whom you get the rubbish you spout, got it wrong about Nimrod, but why let facts obscure your prejudice?
On the allegations, well, how shocking, some people break their vows and sin. In the rest of the world there is not a single example of anyone sinning.
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Not so fast bucko. These are supposed to be holymen. My trashman doesn’t claim to be a “little Christ”
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So, you are seriously arguing that Catholic priests cannot be sinners? Which part of the Bible do you get that from?
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Never mind. Im sorry I brought it up.
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One woman, who claims to have been Contin’s lover for more than three years, claimed the priest carried sex toys and bondage equipment, prostituted his lovers on wife-swapping websites and also invited other priests from the area to sex parties.
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I have no problems with good ol heterosexual males. After reading all this, im considering joining the catholic priesthood.
yeah baby yeah.
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Goodness me, Bosco, how shocking. You don’t mean to tell me that some sinners do that sort of thing? Is there an actual point to you calling out individual priests? Surely you are not trying to smear the whole Church? Or are you still a tool in the hand of the father of lies?
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Im smearing the whole church. Actually, im not smeasring it. The clergy are doing a bang up job without me. From the top to the bottom its all rotten.
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Yes you are. You are taking the behaviour of a minority and pretending it applies to all – the oldest and nastiest rick in satan’s playbook.
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Jesus knocks at your door. he is the truth and the life. Men are sinners. Jesus is the way, not men.
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“Temptation is always present in our lives. Moreover, without temptation you cannot progress in faith,” he said.
Alberto Melloni, professor of church history at the University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, said there is nothing unusual about scandals in the priesthood.
“There is no sin that a cleric doesn’t commit. Scandals to me seem quite normal,” he told RNS.
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Youre doggoned right they are normal for priests of Dagon. These guys love to Parrtyyyyy….parrrtyyyy harrrddddyyy. Life is but a party and a party is meant to last. Gonna party like its 1999
Then in the morning hand out a few crackers to the suckers during the dog and pony show.
Its good to be a catholic priest.
yeah baby yeah
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‘The moral scandal of mega-church pastor Bob Coy leads others to come forward to tell their personal stories of corruption and abuse among the Calvary Chapel franchise of churches.’
https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/04/08/calvary-chapel-pastor-bob-coys-story-of-moral-corruption-leads-calvary-chapel-members-to-share-their-personal-stories/
Lots more where that came from – every time you pretend that the sinning priest is typical of the whole Church, I shall respond with someone from Calvary Chapel.
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Each calvary chapel is independent. Its a name on the wall. I don’t recognize this florida mega church as a calvary chapel. it was something else. A ego factory. Ill be willing to bet that the holy ghost kept his own away from there. The CC I attend is free from any madness. its small and many have been there for a long time and have grown old together. No evil is tolerated there by anyone. Sorry you cant say the same about that snake pit on Vaticanus Haunter Hill.
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Of course it is, no one in your congregation ever did anything wrong, and if they did, you are not responsible for them. Been there a long time/ Let’s see – the RCC has been there nearly 2000 years, and your tin shack has been there how ‘long’?
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The big prestigious Vatican over shadows the little tin hut with its spendor and obvious holiness.
Make the outside of the cup clean…but inside is all manner of filthiness and dead mens bones.
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And the Vatican will be going long after your man-made religion has vanished.
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Lets hope not. The bible says the beast of Rome will be knocked out by the Beast and his Image. A bigger and worster religion will replace the religion on Vaticanus Haunted Hill.
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Always the same few commenters.
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I am always grateful to those who take the time
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