The presence here of Bosco offers a perspective against which the orthodoxies of our Faith need asserting. Of all the oddities in the version of our Faith offered by Bosco, the strangest is the one in which he maintains that Mary was not a follower of her son. He cites Mark 3:34-35 as though it meant Mary was not also his follower, and supports his misreading by misreading Mark 3:21, telling us that Mary thought Jesus was ‘mad’. For Bosco, as, sadly, for others, this passes for reading the word of God.
On this reading of Scripture, we are asked to believe that Mary, who was told by an angel that she was the bear the Messiah and who submitted to God’s will and praised him, somehow forgot all of that, and doubted her Son’s destiny. That would be some amnesia, and would require Bosco to explain to us how, at Cana, she knew he could turn water into wine. It would also require him to explain why and when she became a believer, as we see her in Acts when the Spirit descends.
The evidence is overwhelming that Mary believed the revelation she had received, so let us explain what the verses which seem not to fit mean. Let us take the most egregious misreading first. Mark 3:21, even in the King Jame’s version, says that ‘ And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself’. There is no mention of the mother of Jesus, so quite why Bosco thinks Mary thought her Son mad, only he can tell us. As for the other Markan verse, again, read in context, Jesus is reminding us that all who follow him have a family relationship with him.
The interesting question here is why, in the face of the evidence of Luke that Mary knew her Son was the Messiah, and in the face of the evidence she was with Him at Calvary and with the Apostles when the Spirit descended at the first Pentecost, some people have so much of a problem with Our Lady that they resort to telling lies about her? The main lie is one repeated by Bosco ad nauseam and that is that Catholics treat Mary like some ancient Greeks treated Diana of the Ephesians – that is they worship her. There is clearly some visceral problem here.
The most likely explanation is the the very patriarchal nature of the societies of the sixteenth century out of which Protestantism emerged, and Mark Shea does a good job outlining this argument, which to my mind goes to the heart of the problem. The Bible, like the Church, has always been clear on this – every generation is to call Our Lady ‘blessed’, and we do, every generation acknowledges that her soul magnifies the Lord, and we are. Let us hope and pray that one day Grace will be given to those like Bosco, who rely on their own reading and treat it as infallible.
This stands well enough on its own, but just a note, I’m getting a “nor found” on your link to Mark.
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The main lie is one repeated by Bosco ad nauseam and that is that Catholics treat Mary like some ancient Greeks treated Diana of the Ephesians
Cathols treat Mary EXACTLY like Diana.
It would also require him to explain why and when she became a believer, as we see her in Acts when the Spirit descends.
Ive said it a million times;
Jesus gave Mary to live with John because his sisters and brothers didn’t believe in him, yet. He wanted John to fill her in on the situation. That’s why Mary and a few sibblings were at pentacost.
Bosco needs to learn….Bosco is stupid…..Bosco needs to believe my fantasies.
I would do as good brother Chalcedo does to me and say…show me the scripture…..but im not.From the time Jesus left home to do his ministry till the crucifixion, Mary was nowhere. Well, once she showd up at a house where he was and her and a few of her kids were with hre calling Him. He wouldn’t come out to see her. Some big queen of heaven that Jesus always obeys.Mary was not in his ministry at all. Catholics wonder why I don’t believe their fantasies. They are welcome to all the flights of fancy that their religion serves up. personally, I trust scripture, something the cathols claim they do but don’t. Its more than obvious with their graven images hanging around their necks.
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But Bosco, on your own account, which believes that the people mentioned as ‘brothers’ were actual brothers, James and Joses both wrote epistles, so they must have been Christians – which busts your feeble excuse – like to come up with another?
I see you don’t repeat your lie that his mother called him mad. Good, you learn – at the pace of a snail with arthritis.
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Excuse me if I ever said Jesus brothers never became Christians. We know a few with at pentacost. I don’t remember mentioning that they never got saved. I believe they all got saved and I have believed that from the beginning.
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You ought to learn to read. The Bible tells us two of Jesus’ ‘brothers’ became Christians. You told us Mary went with John because the ‘brothers’ were not Christians. Make your mind up which of the lies you regularly tell you are telling now.
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I guess I have to spell it out for you. the bros werent followers at that time but became followers later. is that hard to grasp. No one is saved until they are saved.
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There is no record in history that she went to live with them, neither does it say in the Bible they became followers only after the crucifixion, so what is your evidence for any of these assumptions? You reject the history received by the Church and prefer a Bosco-made myth – what a hoot you are 🙂
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Mary and some of Jesus sibs were at pentacost. Im going to guess they were born again then.
Yes, I not only reject history as served up by the CC, I don’t waste my time reading it. To busy wasting on other things.
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So, you guess; why should we accept your guess-work when work by historians, including non-Catholics, tells us otherwise. Honestly, you’re like a man who taught himself to play chess insisting that the Queen can move like a bishop, and when told it can’t, says ‘well in my rules it can’.
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I can make assumptions…I met Jesus and have a spirit that was in heaven befor he gave it to me. I can make a real good guess.
I take it you don’t play chess.
the queen can move like a bishop. and a castle(rook)
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No, I don’t, waste of time.
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Playing and winning chess tournaments gave me some spending money when I was in college, the second time. Kept me off the streets. its a waste of time when one doesn’t have the logic and mentality to win tournaments. But chess players, no matter what level, all love it. Im in it for the money and glory.
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Let us hope and pray that one day Grace will be given to those like Bosco, who rely on their own reading and treat it as infallible.
Tell me, whos reading shall I trust? Yours? You believe there is a big fat Queen of Heaven with her own throne, who fights the devil and gives out ALL grace.
Should I trust your solidly gay magisteriums readings?
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Why should anyone believe you and what you think? Why should I ignore the writings of the Church Fathers and the saints and the thousands of good men and women who have witnessed to Christ in writing? You wouldn’t know because in your ignorance you not only have not read a word, but you condemn them unread – which is the definition of prejudice.
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Ive seen enough to know it goes nowhere. Many times they just paraphrase whats already in the bible. Does that make them super man of god? I don’t have time to waste on reading volumes of musings by men in costumes.
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You know, as well as I do, that you have never read one of them in your life. Just admit you are an ignorant fellow.
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Im an ignorant fellow.
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This is true.
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Mark Shea does a good job outlining this argument, which to my mind goes to the heart of the problem.
Good brother mark sent me his three book series on mary, for free. He told me he wanted to educate me. I used to chat with him in his blog. yes, I read them. Im not as ignorant as you Mary worshipers think I am. There was a lot of good history in those book and im glad good brother Mark sent them. But sadly, every word about Mary was fantasy.
There isn’t enough on Mary in scripture to fill a fortune cookie, but Diana worshipers have filled volumes, not to mention going face first to the ground in front of Semiramis images……ooops…did I say Semiramis?….I meant Mary. Sorry.
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There is even less in Scripture about what the books of the NT should be, and yet you accept them from the same source that tells you about Mary – you just cherry-pick what you decided to believe.
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Who ever put the bible together, is dead and buried. This is according to human logic.
I say the Holy Ghost put it together. Your church whom you say gave me the bible is long gone. Its being run by a new breed of criminals.
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The Holy Ghost used the Church, that same Church He used to tell us about Mary – why believe in only part of what the Church teaches?
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I don’t believe your church over scripture.
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But you believe the Scripture it tells you is Scripture. How does that one work?
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as I read scripture, it agreed with the holy ghost inside me. No way to explain it with words. The comforter is here for the saints. he is real. Its no joke.\
Must get tiring defending the precepts of a false religion. I don’t envy you.
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No, I get tired from time to time of your only argument being ‘the holy ghost told me’ – did he tell you Jesus was just a man? Do you realise you are claiming to be infallible on everything? Even the Pope is only infallible in restricted areas.
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Im aware that my confidence doesn’t sit well with religious people who only rely on their costumed holymen. The holy ghost isn’t the author of confusion. have you noticed how the other pilrims who came in here to help me all sound the same? We all know the same risen Lord. Did that ever cross your mind? We sound alike but have never met.
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No, I noticed no such thing. Classicalmusicguy didn’t back you, and the other fellow just repeated the usual anti-Catholic rot easily available to the ignorant on the Internet; sounds like you’re mistaking the Internet for the Holy Spirit. You sound alike because you are repeating the same nonsense.
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By the way, the holy ghost doesn’t tell me anything. I told you its hard to explain with words. My spirit bears witness to the gospel. As I read it I know is god breathed. I don’t get that feeling with anything else. Now, I read testimonies of how people come to the Lord and I believe it. Stuff like that. Its not gospel but I can see the Lord all over that. I don’t see him in you katikism.
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So, as I said, you claim infallibility – which might be more convincing if you didn’t get so much wrong and keep changing your mind.
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Good brother classical seems to have a soft spot for the queen of heaven. More than likely he will grow out of that. Doesn’t happen overnite.
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Or maybe he’s more intelligent and better read?
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If you are not ignorant, then you know the truth, and refuse to believe it.
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What truth do I refuse to believe?
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