Few, familiar with the wider Catholic blogosphere, can be unaware of the presence there of those who not only criticise the current Pope (a thing I may have done a time or two myself) , but who deny that he – and for that matter his immediate predecessors – is Pope at all. They cite various things in order to ‘prove’ their case, one being that they have all taken part in ecumenical gatherings which, they claim, no Catholic Pope would do; the question ‘according to whom?’ naturally arises. One theme of recent posts has been the place of Tradition within the Church. St Paul wrote about the traditions, oral and written which he had received and was passing on. These include the Scriptures themselves. Jesus wrote no book. He could have done so, and as Christians, we believe that Scripture is divinely inspired, but it needs interpreting, and that is why Jesus founded a Church with a teaching authority.
The last Pope, Benedict XVI, was one of the most intelligent men ever to sit on the throne of St Peter, and he may well have been the best theologian ever to be Pope. But according to the wilder fringes of the Catholic blogosphere, we are asked to believe that this life-long, loyal and intelligent Catholic, knew so little about the history and theology of the Church in which he spent his entire adult life that he failed to spot what some new converts can see – that the Catholic Church has fallen away, and exists only in small pockets of the faithful, identifiable only to those who are ‘true’ Catholics. This is a Catholic (if it is Catholic at all) version of our friend Bosco with his talk about ‘the saved’ being able to identify those others who are ‘saved’. It is a version of what Protestants hold when they talk about the Church falling away in the time of Constantine; it is what non-Trinitarians say about the Trinity; it is what the Quartodecimans held about the decision to change the date at which the Passover started; it is what the Orthodox say about the filioque. The moment you decide that you know better than the teaching authority of the Church, then you must, perforce, fall back on one of two things: either your own unaided conscience; or the claim that your conscience is better informed by the Spirit than the Church founded by Christ. There is a third option – to insist that a particular point in time was the golden age, and that whatever it was the Church taught then it must profess in that form for ever. This was the claim of those who opposed Nicaea; it was the claim of those who opposed the teaching of the “Theotokos” and it was the claim of those who opposed Chalcedon.
Yet for all such lucubrations, the Church has a teaching authority, and that authority teaches, and what it teaches is not a dead set of rules set out in ancient books, it is the teaching of Jesus Christ Himself – it is, as Pope Francis has recently reminded us, the ‘Joy of the Gospel’. I see little sign of that joy in those who spend their time criticising the Pope because he does not fit in with their idea of what the Church ought to be. Benedict did not abdicate to make way for the College to elect individual bloggers as arbiters of the teaching of the Church, the College elected Francis. He reminded us all, two years ago, of something important, indeed something vital which we forget at our peril:
What does “People of God” mean? First of all it means that God does not belong in a special way to any one people; for it is He who calls us, convokes us, invites us to be part of his people, and this invitation is addressed to all, without distinction, for the mercy of God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4). Jesus does not tell the Apostles or us to form an exclusive group, a group of the elite. Jesus says: go out and make disciples of all people (cf. Mt 28:19). St Paul says that in the People of God, in the Church, “there is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28). I would also like to say to anyone who feels far away from God and the Church, to anyone who is timid or indifferent, to those who think they can no longer change: the Lord calls you too to become part in his people and he does this with great respect and love! He invites us to be part of this people, the People of God!
Now, whilst, as with any Pope, this one is subject to criticism, here he enunciates something which a Church facing a secularised and/or hostile world, would do well to remember. That some orthodox Catholics might remind this Pope that what he said applies to them, despite some of his recent language, would be a better response to his scolding than claiming he is not the Pope.
thoughtfullydetached said:
Yes, the important thing, I think, is to see the continuities and weigh them against the apparent novelties. The Church has not and cannot un-teach anything which it has once taught definitively. Certain practices might appear to circumvent the authoritative teaching on this or that issue but this is a kind of problem the Church has faced before. Certainly resist such malpractices, in the spirit of St Catherine of Siena, but do so in the sure knowledge that the barque of Peter rests on firmer foundations (to wildly mix my metaphors) than any of the challenges now present can overthrow.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
So, your church teaches what Jesus taught. When did Jesus take bones of fallen heros and “venerate” them. The closest Jesus came to addressing that issue was this……”let the dead bury the dead”
When did Jesus tell us to exhume bodies of men and worship them? I believe you call it venerating.The CC drags out corpses onto the Vaticanus Hill Haunted house porch and lets the dead file by it and worship it. I believe you call it venerating.
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chalcedon451 said:
You may be too ignorant, prejudiced or just full of a lyin’ spirit to see the difference between veneration and worship, but people without that set of disabilities are not. When did Jesus tell us how many books were to be in the NT? When did He tell us ‘once saved, always saved?’ When did he tell us about the motor car? He founded a Church, that Church acts with the power he delegated to the Apostles; that you do not belong to it is a problem even you can over come – go see a priest, confess your sins and join Christ’s Church; see, easy!
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Thank you for inviting me to your heartfelt religion. Id do the same….if I had one. Maybe it has something to do with my brains being stolen.
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Patrick E. Devens said:
The Church teaches what Jesus taught. That is not to say that the Bible records everything Jesus did, Bosco.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
I fail to believe Jesus dug up bones to venerate them, if that’s what you are implying. But nice try.
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chalcedon451 said:
Try learning to read.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
So what am I missing?
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Patrick E. Devens said:
Did anyone say that whatever Jesus did comprises Christianity?
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Patrick E. Devens said:
It is much more than just what the Bible records about Christ’s actions, Bosco.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Good brother Patrick, stop beating around the bush. Man up to the bar. Just say jesus venerated bones and cadavors. Stop dancing around the issue.
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Patrick E. Devens said:
It is not recorded that Jesus venerated the bodies of the dead. Also, not all components of Christianity are found in the Bible.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
There is one component to Christianity, and that is the man Jesus. That’s all there is and there is no more.
The CC loves to saddle men with impossible burdens. Come out of her lest you partake in the wrath that god is going to rain down on it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Is this back to your heresy that Jesus was just a man?
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Bosco the Heretic said:
The CC teaches and highly recommends its flock do certain things to lessen their time in some purgatory. Visit some Mary graven image or some other holy site, or perform some other duty. Jesus taught against a works religion. And not one peep about purgatory.
Jesus also never taught that to miss a church service is to risk the fires of hell.
These aren’t incidentals of the CC These are pretty bid deals. None of which came from Christ.
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chalcedon451 said:
Again, Jesus did not say many things, he founded a Church which did – join it.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
On a more serious note, the brain of my beloved namesake, the Blessed John Bosco, has had his brain stolen. I must admit that it has to be all rotten and smelly by now. Why does the CC worship body parts? What a bunch of sickos. Jesus has no part in this religions activities.
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chalcedon451 said:
No one worships body parts. Mind you, the way you waste your brain is sad.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Im not going to ask if this is Jesus teaching…..to hang up body parts and bow down befor them. This is where I get upset. Your religion is claiming that Jesus taught venerating body parts and penance. Jesus was beaten to death to redeem me and the CC drags Him through the mud with their sick sad practices saying Jesus had something to do with it. I don’t get mad when you call me names, but I get upset when you denigrate my Savior.
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chalcedon451 said:
Learn to read. Jesus founded a Church. His Church takes forward the mission. You believe this too. You say you believe in the Trinity, but Jesus did not explain it, he left that to the Church.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
OH heck. Never mind. Im disputing that the CC teaches what jesus taught, or would approve of. You guys claim every hour on the hour how the CC is in line with Christ. I say its far from the mark. If that is true, then the whole thing is false. Its a matter of salvation. This isn’t Bosco making fun of homo priests, it me saying to look where you are going. There might be a cliff ahead.
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chalcedon451 said:
Jesus founded a Church, if you want saving, join it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Ponder this Bosco:
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.
2Ch 18:21a KJV
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Ok, so someone stole my brain. I hope they get some use out of it. I never use it.
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Patrick E. Devens said:
That much is obvious.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
ATTENTION; $200 reward for the return of Boscos brain. Contact local law enforcement.
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Steve Brown said:
C, Humanae Vitae comes to mind. Great and certainly reminding all of Church teaching, but out of sink with the times. It was so far outside the “Spirit” of Vatican II, it had zero chance of being adhered to. It was 1968 and all over the world people were seeing that THEY were their own authority. So, Church doctrine stays the same, but practice changes. Fast forward 50 years. Amoris Laetitia arrives on the scene. Wordy, lethargic, well outside the teaching of the Church, but so it seems, in sink with the times. It goes so well with “mercy” and “who am I to judge.” So again, Church doctrine stays the same (wink wink), but practice changes. In the view of Pope Francis, the Catholic Church should be like the Protestants–30,000 different beliefs or no belief at all is A-OK.
No, I stand with St. Francis de Sales, who after a couple of years in the south of France without much success, refused to leave with his brother, but stayed the course and found a way to return over 70,000 souls to the real Church that Jesus founded. No, I stand with Mary, our Queen of Heaven, who showed the children of Fatima souls falling into Hell as like snowflakes. I could go on all day mentioning those that the Word of God, Tradition, and the Magisterium are the means to saving souls.
I’m reading George Neumayr’s The Political Pope, and would recommend to all. And C, I would challenge you to read it, analyze, and write a post. But, watch out it may change your mind.
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Bosco the Heretic said:
Oh great Queen of heaven…..save me.
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chalcedon451 said:
From yourself and the fires of hell.
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chalcedon451 said:
Thanks Steve – now call me suspicious, but when a book on Pope F starts:
‘ From the first moment I saw him, I knew that he was going to be a Modernist wrecking ball, and he struck me from the beginning as the prototypical “progressive” Jesuit. ‘ I find myself wondering whether he collected the evidence to fit that conclusion?
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Patrick E. Devens said:
You’d have to read on to conclude that. All I will say is that Francis needs to say less than he does on subjects like global warming.
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chalcedon451 said:
O often wish our Bishops etc were as certain on doctrine as they are on economics and climate change.
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Patrick E. Devens said:
To true.
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Steve Brown said:
C, as I am holding the book, I knew it didn’t start with that line. So I went looking. You are quoting the author in an interview with One Peter Five. https://onepeterfive.com/interview-george-neumayr-author-political-pope/
Think what you want, but he includes notes and index at the back of his book that is 52 pages long. And this prototypical “progressive” Jesuit thinks Satan is a figment of our imaginations. As the article states, Pope Francis is spouting things that once again are not teachings of the Catholic Church. Read the book!
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jesuit-chief-claims-satan-only-a-symbol-created-by-man
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