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Chalcedon 451, Christianity, controversy, Faith, history, Papacy
Before Leo had rejected the canon, both the Emperor Marcion, and the Patriarch of Constantinople, Anatolius, had written to him in conciliatory tones. Marcion hoped (Leo, Epistles CII) that now Rome’s doctrinal position had triumphed, Chalcedon could be ratified. Anatolius went along the same line in another December letter (Price III pp. 138-142) in which he tried to convince Leo that his delegates had reported things incorrectly and stated clearly they had not simply sent him the canon as a conciliatory measure but for his approval:
This decree has been transmitted to your sacredness by the holy council and by us in order to receive from you approval and confirmation.
He went on the ‘beg’ him to do so so that ‘everything that was transacted in writing at this holy and ecumenical council’ could then be enacted. This was not the language even of primus inter pares – it was language used to a primus. But as we have seen, Leo was not mollified and would not give his approval. He told the Empress Pulcheria that delighted though he was that the Council had proclaimed orthodoxy, he was saddened that an attempt had been made to add to the canons of Nicaea for no aim higher than political advantage.
Leo’s claims were based on Tradition and Apostolicity, he could not, and did not yield them. On 21 March 453, with parts of Palestine claiming Chalcedon was not legitimate because Leo had not ratified it, Leo confirmed (Ep. 114.2) that he agreed to everything at Chalcedon which did not contravene Nicaea. Letter 116 to the empress makes the same point, adding:
Let vicious ambition covet nothing belonging to another, nor let anyone seek his own increase through injuring another, for however much vainglorious pride builds on extorted assent and thinks that its depredations can be strengthened through talking of councils, whatever differs from the canons of the aforesaid fathers [Nicaea] will be null and void.
Leo’s ratification of the Council was thought necessary by all concerned, and given the nature of the crisis in Egypt and Palestine, no one mentioned Canon 28, although clearly Leo was not ratifying it; Rome did not do so until the thirteenth century.
Leo’s claims were well-known and public; they were not contested by Constantinople. All men knew what it meant for Peter to speak through Leo. He spoke through no other Bishop. No other Bishop stood at the head of the others. No other Bishop’s ratification was sought in the way Leo’s was. Once can debate until well after the cows have come home what later men later claimed these things meant; contemporaries seem to have been clear enough. Lack of clarity came only when men desired it – as is so often the case.
Loose talk about Caesaro-Papism conceals a harsh reality. In Constantinople the Patriarch owed the claims he made in 451 to the fact he was the Imperial Patriarch; Church and State were one. The Roman Empire was effectively a theocracy – at Constantinople. Rome, deserted by the imperial bureaucracy, threatened by Huns, and already much reduced in population, owed its claims solely to Apostolicity. The odd thing about the anti-Catholic charge that Catholicism is a ‘Roman State religion’ is its historical ignorance. Imperial authority lay at Constantinople from the mid fourth century to the fifteenth century, and Rome, otherwise a political backwater, owed its authority not to the State, but to its Apostolic foundation on St Peter. Far from being s ‘State run’ religion, Roman Catholicism resisted all attempts by the Empire, and later by kingdoms in the West, to assert State power over the Church. A little historical knowledge would not come amiss in those who level the charge that the Catholic Church is a ‘Roman state run religion’; nothing could be further from the truth.
The practicalities of resisting State power were never less than problematic. It might have been Stalin who famously asked ‘how many divisions has the Pope?’, but he was hardly the first. From Justinian through to Hitler, powerful men would threaten the Pope, even hold him hostage. The Popes would create their own State for safety and invent Western diplomacy to protect it. Whatever the modalities, the reasoning was consistent – Peter spoke through the Pope and against that Rock not even the Gates of Hell would prevail. Nor have they, and nor will they. Empires rise and fall, Great Powers wax and wane, powerful men strut and fret their hour upon the stage, and Schisms come and multiply; but in the Eternal City, on the Rock of Peter, his successor remains; history affords no other example of such longevity. The works of human hand do not endure in this fashion; the work of God does.
I’m slightly surprised there have been no substantive comments, much less disagreement, on this subject matter (not counting the clown).
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Me too – but one can only put things up and see what happens. The series has another one to run, and then we shall see,
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For my part, I’m still mulling. There are two ways I can agree with this content:
-At the fundamental level – which will necessitate my conversion to Rome.
-At the “data level”, where I conclude that, given what they believed, they were obligated to obey Rome.
I have also been mulling an academic interpretation on some NT passages about faith that would actually create a kind of bridge between Rome and the Protestants.
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This may, or may not help:
Modern American Evangelicals teach that Christian life begins when you “invite Jesus into your heart.” Personal conversion (what they call “being born again”) is seen as the essence and the beginning of Christian identity. I knew from my reading of the Fathers that this was not the teaching of the early Church. I learned studying the Reformers that it was not even the teaching of the earliest Protestants. Calvin and Luther had both unambiguously identified Baptism as the beginning of the Christian life. I looked in vain in their works for any exhortation to be “born again.” I also learned that they did not dismiss the Eucharist as unimportant, as I had. While they rejected Catholic theology on the sacraments, both continued to insist that Christ is really present in the Eucharist. Calvin even taught in 1541 that a proper understanding of this Eucharist is “necessary for salvation.” He knew nothing of the individualistic, born-again Christianity I had grown up with.
I will dig out the link.
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My own theology of baptism likens it (in the case of infants) to circumcision and other OT parallels. We cannot impute moral agency to a child (if we did we would invalidate what Paul says in Romans), but this does not ipso facto mean that we should not baptize children. The child’s will is not infringed because s/he is free to affirm or deny the Covenant upon obtaining the age of reason. Before the age of reason the child is subject to their parents – whether Christian or not – because this is what God has ordained for humanity.
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I just recently had my own conversation with an Evangelical on Justification. It was interesting that he cared nothing about what the Apostles taught, The Church Father, or , when brought out the Book of Concord what the reformers taught.
Anytime I asked how do you think scripture and your current faith developed, wouldn’t it be prudent to understand the origin? The Evangelical would evade the question.
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It is the utter certainty that, whilst relying on Christians from the early Church for the Canon itself, they have nothing to learn from them, which I find baffling.
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The reason the born again don’t care about all that is this.:
The lord is our Shepherd. He leadeth us to still waters. he restoreth our souls.
These catholic or other humans and their doings areof no consequence to us.
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Did the Lord, Jesus Christ, write the Gospels?
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In a way yes. They are about Him and Him only.
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Really, so the whole of the Acts of the Apostles is about Jesus? No, Bosco, Jesus did not write the Gospels.
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I’m pretty much with Nicholas here, mulling, and considering.
Saying that they (particularly Luther) rejected Catholic teaching on the sacraments is going a bit past the station. He rejected the sacraments that he could not find in the Bible, leaving baptism, and the Eucharist, but also noting that the others are considered sacramental practices, something of a downgrading, but hardly a rejection.
Evangelicalism has, in my opinion, strayed far off the script.
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Nice to know I’m not the only one 🙂 I think where I’m at personally is the issue of conscience: I can actually agree with Rome on a lot of things but the question remains regarding what to do when the church hierarchy makes a pronouncement that goes against the conscience.
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That’s the thing, isn’t it? I have enough trouble with Lutheran hierarchs, to have much desire to deal with some that actually have authority. 🙂
Rome is correct a lot of the time, but not always, and I’m wondering if C isn’t getting this one a bit backward – we all wish that we could all get along, but Rome looks to be getting ready for still another schism. Seems to happen about every 500 years. It’s why I think we’re better off keeping each other honest, although how some of the Evangelicals got from Rome to where they are today, well apostasy comes to mind, cause I don’t see much of it in the Bible, and none in the Fathers. Maybe they’re just post Christian. 🙂
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I completely agree. A certain dose of realism is sensible. I guess it’s also worth remembering that at the resurrection a lot of this will get flipped: many who were first will end up servants to people who were considered “nobodies”.
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Yep, and then we’ll know who was right. You know, I have trouble thinking that doing what we have always done, everywhere, can be completely wrong.
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Agreed. One of the verses that helps me with this issue was when Jesus said, “If you don’t believe Me [for what I’m saying] believe because of the works themselves”. I thought it very gracious of C to acknowledge all the hard work of evangelicals over the years. That’s what really annoys me in some of the apologetics discussions – the good work of both sides gets forgotten, people like Corrie ten Boom.
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Yep, it does, everybody is fighting their corner, and has their ears shut tight.
C’s a fair man, always, and as we’ve seen the last couple of weeks, one heck of a history teacher, hard to comment on sometimes, though! 🙂
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Thank you both. My view remains what it has always been. We’re all Christians, and Christ will sort us all out 😊
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Agreed. And like St. Isaac, I doubt we have all that much to fear, as long as we love one another. 🙂
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Agreed 😊
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🙂
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Yeah totally. Much as I’m a history buff, I don’t have his learning on this period. When it comes down to it, I’m much more of a linguistics sort of person and a lot of my reading these days tends more towards Semitics and the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha.
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It is an understudied period – but I hope not an uninteresting one. 😊
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Indeed. I think you have made an excellent case for its importance as the root of where we are today – many branches, many professions, and, alas, many mistakes. I think you have also done a good job of persuading me where Greek thought fits into this picture. The Semitics side is the root of all, but it doesn’t furnish us with some of the language we need to understand the natures and persons. Semitics is good for the Elohim issue and the Divine Council.
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Thank you, Nicholas.
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Me too, my specialty was American military history, and some politico-diplomatic. Doesn’t bear much on this.
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Ah. I have been recently watching “The West Wing” which has been quite demanding on my awareness of American politics.
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I’ve watched a bit of it myself, do remember it’s fiction. 🙂
Still it does give some idea of the complexities, although I suspect “Yes, Minister” is more accurate.
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Indeed. I think one of the points it makes well is that there will always be fanatics who are more interested in the party than in the bigger picture.
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We’ve sure got a bunch putting party (and/or money) ahead of country these days. Hard to deal with, frankly.
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Indeed. I generally don’t read much of the “soundbites” anymore. I just scan the headlines and read Middle East stuff. Anything else is bad for stress levels…
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Surely is. It’s a strange world when I find myself cheering Donald Trump, and the Spectator is calling Mrs. May “Red Theresa” based on the manifesto. Having read it, they’ve a point.
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I’m uncomfortable about our general election. My criterion is Israel. I don’t believe Corbyn would support Israel, given his pro-PLO stance. As a Zionist I won’t cast my vote for someone who takes that stance and that’s all there is to it.
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I understand. That was part of why a good many of us voted for Trump. But as so often, it was more of a vote for the lesser evil, not for someone.
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Yeah. If I’d been an American, I would have voted for Trump.
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And if you look at his actions, and ignore as much of the noise as possible, he’s doing a fairly decent job. And yes, I’d vote Tory, unless something local overrode, in yours.
What I really want to see, in Britain, is somebody that has something other than disdain for British, especially English, history. It’s a unique one, that built the modern world.
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I agree. I would like to see the PM pursue some good free trade deals with the US, South America, and Australia and New Zealand, as well as tax breaks for small businesses and a removal of unnecessary legislation. I’d also like to see a major overhaul of education with a greater emphasis on literacy skills rather than on literature itself. I think we are damaging the fundamentals by forcing too many people to read the likes of Austen.
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You guys have always been more Atlanticist than European, from where I sit. Those should be easy trade deals to make, and I’d include India. I see nothing wrong with anything you say here.
Austen is great, for adults, I had her assigned as a freshman, and hated it. When I came back to it in my 50s, I understood all the fuss.
Primary and secondary have to teach the basic skills, and critical thinking, our do none of the above, they indoctrinate herd instinct. Tertiary can start building on that, but the best will carry on all their lives.
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Totally in agreement. If the government wants to see educators pick up on these things, they need to provide more time for them by reducing the content in our courses, or at least reforming RS, English, and science. Science has become politicized with the advent of environmentalism, which means there is no space for learning the basics of empiricism.
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Agreed. The level of ignorance displayed by college student is appalling, amazing, and dangerous. If we don’t teach silly stuff like 2+2=4, well, I give civilization two generations tops. The whole thing has become a cult, of modernism, maybe, or just nihilism. Not all, of course, there are many good teachers, and students out there, but society is failing them badly.
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I’m not sure that a fresh schism is in prospect – despite the best wishes of parts of the RC blogosphere 😏
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I hope you’re correct, the Church just seems noisier than usual, or maybe we just hear more of it. 🙂
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Less of it here than we used to 😂
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Praise God for large favors! 🙂
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Indeed 😊
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🙂
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A new thread, cause I can’t insert where I want to. 😉
Nicholas makes a valuable point here, the period is badly understudied by historians, especially ones seemingly not trying to undermine Christianity. Roman civil decline sure, the rise of Islam some, the foundations of Christianity, well not much that has caught my eye.
That’s one of the things that makes this site unique, one can get actual history, as balanced as possible, not to mention people that our societies and even our churches mostly overlook. It makes the archives here at least unusual, cause I don’t know anything like it, anywhere. And it leads us to a far greater understanding of how we got to where we are.
Also would be good, if we could manage to avoid repeating history as farce, at least once.
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Thanks, Neo. It would be good if we could find some new mistakes rather than repeat the old ones. 😊
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It would. My dad always said that almost any mistake is acceptable once, the second time, look out for descending hammers. I think he may have meant Thor’s! 🙂
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😄
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🙂
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I also like having the archives as a record of trends and changes in our thoughts.
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Yep, and I suspect we’ve all changed some. Live and learn, they used to say! 🙂
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