One of our authors and commentators, Nicholas, has said that he sometimes feels pressured by others into converting into the Catholic Church; I know he is not the only one here who feels this way, so a word or two on this might not come amiss.
There is, on my part, no agenda in that direction. If it sometimes sounds as though there is, that simply reflects some of the reasoning which led me to convert; it is certainly no reason for others to. My advice, should anyone ask for it, is always the same: think and pray first, second, and third; then do it again. If I fail to suffer from the common disease of convertitis (one symptom is the belief that one of more Catholic than the Pope, but there are others), there’s a simple reason for it, I had no illusions about what I would find across the Tiber. Was the English translation of the Missal trite, and lacking in majesty; were the hymns on the whole trite and banal; were the homilies less than nourishing? Yes, but Rome was hardly alone in any of this. It was not unlike my experience as an Anglican. The difference was that Rome has an authoritative teaching Magisterium and Anglicanism is a talking-shop – a very pleasant and intelligent and congenial one, but a talking-shop all the same. Those who like the that are well-advised to stay where they are.
Make no mistake if you are thinking of converting. Rome knows what it teaches, and if you wish to dissent in a serious way from it, and you are a theologian, you must expect trouble. If a secular analogy can be forgiven, there is no point being a member of my London Club and then complaining it doesn’t allow women in. Go and join a Club that does; there are a lot of them. I happen to be of a generation and background where all-male environments were common, and I enjoy such. I do not wish to have women everywhere, any more, than they want to have men everywhere.
Modern liberal culture teaches relativism. It can do so all it likes, but God’s revealed truths are what they are. If, as I hold, the Catholic Church is the guardian of those truths and I profess and believe all that it does, then on matters of faith and dogma what Rome says goes. If I don’t like that, I can leave.
When I was an Anglican I was happy to argue my corner, and when my side lost the vote I had a choice. I could have stayed and argued and insisted that I was right and that my church should change; or I could recognise that the Church wanted to move on, and go. It seemed than, and seems now, better to do the latter. People who insist that their church should change to accommodate them have too high a view of their own importance. Humility becomes the Christian, and here it means obedience.
If I do not like what the Vatican says about x and y, I am free to dissent. If, however, I were to mount a public argument and proclaim the Church wrong on a matter of dogma or doctrine, I should expect someone to call me on it. No one died and made me Pope. I am not more Catholic than the Pope.
Because I am a Christian, I tolerate liberals in the religious sphere with more patience than I usually possess in the secular arena. But where souls are at stake, toleration is a vice. I am certain only that God knows who the sheep of His flock are, and that He alone decides our fate. But, being a Catholic, I know where the authority to interpret His word aright lies, and I am happy there. That does not mean, nor does the Church teach, that all Catholics will be saved, or that only Catholics can be saved. Nor does it mean that the Pope is always (or even often) infallible. It certainly does not mean an absence of debate and discussion in the Church. But it does mean that when a dogmatic definition is pronounced, that is it – Roma locuta est – causa finita est.
Those for whom that idea is anathema should not convert. Equally, converts should not expect Rome to be a perpetual chatter-box closing down all discussion so that their own favourite point of view can rest unchallenged. As Chesterton put it, only living things struggle against the current.
This is very well put and I feel exactly the same (speaking as a cradle Catholic). I am sorry Nicholas felt/feels ‘under pressure’ to convert. Jesus never put anyone ‘under pressure’ and neither should we. No-one is forced to join the Church and for all sorts of reasons people choose not to (I am thinking here especially of Anglo-Catholics, or ‘High Church’ members of the C of E.) Faith is a gift, after all; we don’t simply reason ourselves into it, though reason, debate and argument have their place. For me, the clinching argument isn’t Authority (though that is an essential aspect.) It is the example of all the great (and little) saints in the Catholic Church, such as Francis of Assisi, Anthony of Padua, Dominic, St Margaret Mary, St John Bosco, St Francis de Sales, St Bernadette, St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein, the Jewish philosopher murdered at Auschwitz), Mother Teresa and so on. They show me, as nothing else does, that holiness within the Church leads to the full flourishing of one’s particular gifts, not their diminution or suppression. PS: just out of curiosity (I am a woman after all!) what is the name of your club, Chalcedon?! I belong to an all-women Book Club. We totally veto the possibility of men joining us; they would spoil its delicate eco-culture…
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The Savile 🙂
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If being a Mary doesn’t mean you are saved, whats it worth? And while you were religion shopping, how did you see the graven image homosexual priestcraft genocidal murderous State Run religion as a desirous vehicle for salvation?
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Sorry that you are slipping back into bad habits. How would you respond if I began ‘If being a Prot …’
I know you believe you are saved, but I ask you only one thing, show me a single Gospel writer of Epistle writer in the whole of the NT who says that? Does it not stop and make you think that there is not a single Apostle or Epistle writer who says: “I am saved”? Yet St Paul, who says much about salvation, says the opposite of what you say – he says he is working it out in fear and trembling and that he hopes to get the victor’s crown at the end.
So, when did you decide that whatever the Bible says, you would come up with an antirely man-made version of a religion?
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Old bad habits. You said being a Mary doesn’t guarantee salvation. Well then forget that mess. I want assurance of salvation.
“he says he is working (it) out in fear and trembling”
What is “it”? Is “it” salvation? Well one must have salvation in order to work it out.
The Holy Ghost gave me salvation, 100%. he didn’t give me 49%. I guess your religion only gives partial salvation. Im not slipping back into my old ways. Im warning people of this sick sad religion that doesn’t give 100% salvation. If one wants 100% salvation, don’t join your religion. Its not a game. its eternity.
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Insulting peoples’ religion is a bad habit. You claim to know Jesus personally, and yet it seems t have had not effect on your behaviour. Are you saying Jesus approves of you insulting other people and telling lies about what they believe?
I asked you a simple question, which, as usual, you are dodging. Give me just one example from the NT of anyone saying ‘I have 100% salvation’ and I will admit you have a point. You can’t, because there isn’t. You have invented your own religion. If you are really preaching the true Gospel, you would be able to provide all of us with one person from the NT saying “I am guaranteed 100% salvation’. If you cannot do this, then you will have to admit that your beliefs are just that, your own beliefs, not the preaching of Jesus. And you know what Paul said about those who preach another Gospel? Probably you don’t.
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Are you saying Jesus approves of you insulting other people and telling lies about what they believe?
Yes, he approves of me insulting religions that don’t promise salvation 100%. He doesn’t approve of me telling lies.
You said Catholicism doesn’t guarantee salvation. I said….well don’t join it in that case.
Im not disputing your claim.
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All you have to do is to answer my repeated question and you will show you have a case. I ask for one thing only, a single example from the NT of anyone saying “I have 100% guarantee I am saved” Just one. If what you say is Biblical, it should be easy. That you cannot do it, shows you are preaching ‘another gospel’.
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OK. Then as you tell it, none of the gospel writers had assurance that they were saved. I can tell the voice of the Shepard in their words. I know they were saved. Do they sound like they didn’t know if they were going to heaven? Just because you don’t know if youre saved doesn’t mean everyone is in the dark.
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Phil 2:1-2 – Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed–not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence–continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
That’s St Paul to the Philippians – the ‘saints’. Does that sound like he is telling them they are going to heaven? No.
In fact, when pushed, you are unable to provide any evidence from the Bible that what you believe in attested to in Scripture, Your opinion is not evidence. I asked for solid Biblical testimony. I have provided you with it to show that Paul and the Philippians did not think they were guaranteed salvation. We must, alas, conclude that what you believe is not to be found in Scripture, whereas what the Church teaches is. That should surprise no one, as the Church knows how to read the book it canonised.
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Key word……Salvation. Work out your “salvation” . They have salvation.
Now take your works salvation down to the Roman Temple and hug that statue of Artemus and beg it to do something for you.
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If they have it, why do they need to work it out? If your teacher said ‘work out that math problem’ would she assume you had the answer?
As ever, you play with words because Scripture does not support you.
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C What do you make of 1 John 5:11-12 or John 10:28-29. To me, these texts mean that a disciple of Christ can be assured that they are in current possession of Salvation. Also, they can be assured of the Lord’s power to keep them. Paul seems to hold this assurance, Phil. 1:6.
Whether this salvation can be lost or not is not agreed upon by evangelicals. With the 20th C growth among Pentecostals, I would guess that the majority of evangelicals do not teach a “Once saved always saved” view but would not pronounce on who is or who is not saved.
I tend strongly towards the ‘Eternal Security’ of Christ disciples.
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I have no problem, nor does the Church, with the idea we can be assured of current salvation – but I understand Bosco to be saying he is sure that he will be saved at the end.
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If one doesn’t know that one is saved…guess what.
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As Paul didn’t, guess what?
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Catholics have absolute assurance of salvation, if we remain in the state of grace. This is not difficult to do, with God’s grace. Unreasonable fears and doubts about one’s spiritual condition are called scruples. This is a serious psychological condition, which a good priest will know how to cure. It affects only a few.
If we truthfully confess our sins, without deliberately concealing any grave sin, and do the penance prescribed, our sins – all sins, even the ones we forgot about – are forgiven and we are in the state of grace. Period.
If we cannot confess, or have not yet confessed, but are truly sorry for what we have done and love God, we are in the state of grace. Period. It is however necessary to seek to make confession to a priest as soon as reasonably practicable.
But there is no incontrovertible guarantee that at no point in life can we lose our salvation. This is possible, if we die in grave sin.
Salvation has three tenses in the scripture and in real life:
I have been saved (from the stain of original sin and all prior actual sin, through the laver of regeneration, i.e. baptism)
I am being saved (I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling, per St Paul)
I will be saved, and enjoy eternal bliss, if I persevere to the end in the state of grace.
What God begins, He will accomplish. But if you die with mortal sin on your soul, you will go to Hell, and another will reap the benefit of the graces you received and squandered.
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All excellent points – and if Bosco doesn’t get it, it will help others. Hope all is well with you and yours?
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Very well thank you, old bean.
And with you?
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Glad to hear it. Ferociously busy with the new job, but enjoying the challenge of helping create a Catholic University.
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Nicholas, has said that he sometimes feels pressured by others into converting into the Catholic Church
if he has young children he better stay the hell away from that Graven Image religion.
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I see that slight outbreak of sense lasted five minutes. Sad, I preferred the sensible version of you who answered questions and didn’t write in turgid cliches.
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Au contrair mon frère. Im ready to give reasoned debate. My admonition to keep your young kids away from catholic priests is one of the best advice I can give anyone. maybe you want a reasoned debate about that.
When my daughter was young, I drove into a catholic church parking lot and explained to her what goes on inside of that building. That was the only time I had to talk with her about that. She is now born again, and the subject never comes up.
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Since the same proportion of guilty priests is about the same as in the teaching profession and in families, you ought, in fairness, to want to keep kids away from teachers and step-parents; so why single out one group?
If your daughter had her advice about Catholicism from you, I feel sorry for her. It is a form of child abuse to fill a child’s mind with your own lies and prejudices. I doubt you have the grace to be a bit ashamed of yourself.
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There is a school board supervisor here in san Bernardino or something close to here, that was busted 2 days ago for child porn. I cant find the news article to give you a link. oh yes, child abuse is everywhere. Why,….I couldn’t tell you. What kind of monsters would do that? Child abuse is rampant with our political leaders. To say its a lie that its not rampant among catholic priests is not realistic. You don’t mind if I call Clinton and Trump pedophiles, do you? Well, they are.
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I have no idea about Clinton and Trump, but yes, pedophilia is very common. But in that case, why single out one organisation in the way you do? There is no evidence to show the RCC has the vice in a greater way than any other organisation.
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There is no evidence to show the RCC has the vice in a greater way than any other organisation.
That is a subject for reasoned debate. In my earlier days, a few days ago that is, I would toss out some jabs. I did a hard hitting post in here on that subject. At the moment, my time online is coming to an end soon. But I will be on later. Plus im going to a tent sale at our local Mexican market where that are virtually giving away fruit and vegetables and fish.
There is ample evidence to convict the catholic clergy of running a child kidnap and slave trade pedophile operation, from the bottom to the top.
I once asked a dear friend, who was raised catholic, who used to tell me all about these kind of things, long ago. They were all news to me. I asked him…..what do these people who have more money than they can ever use, why do they keep wanting more money, and what pleasure do they get from life?
He said that they get pleasure from dealing in buying and selling souls. they deal in souls of men.
he didn’t get into pedophilia, I guess because there wasn’t time. But he set my feet on a path of knowledge that I continued with. The catholic church has more money than God. What does it do now? It doesn’t need more money, but it keeps rolling in. It deals with souls of men, and children.
Boystown USA. A shopping market for pedophiles. Run by none other than the Catholic church. Their clients are anyone who can afford their services. Businessmen and public officials, all over the world get young boys from Boystown. A hard rain is going to fall on the desperately wicked catholic church.
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I am sorry to see these unsubstantiated stories Bosco. I am not defending the way the Church handled child abuse allegations, but there is no evidence to support a systematic conspiracy.
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Boystown USA, a bunch of little boys with no one to protect them, no parents, all of them at the mercy of catholic clergymen. You call this unsubstantiated?
My gott in Himmel man, where have you been……in confinement or something?
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You forget, American news is not necessarily news here.
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“your own lies and prejudices’
Well, now we have a subject for reasoned debate. Im sorry if my previous statements made you feel I was going against my new found way of debate. I, we, everyone in America, has problems to deal with. I didn’t want to add the risk of subjecting my child to abuse from a priest of Dagon. We had enough problems to solve. I hope you agree with me on that. I know for a fact you don’t want to see children harmed.
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Statistic show that the most likely abusers of children are in the family, the second most likely are teacher, with priests the third most likely, so if we followed your line, all children would be taken from their parents and brought up by the State. Are you sure you have thought this one through?
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Hmmmm, I seem to agree 100% with your probability spread sheet on abuse statistics.
Well, let me think about that. On further inspection, I give teachers and ppriest and other religion clerical workers, a neck and neck percentage.
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In which case, it would best not to imply that one church is the worst for this. Of course no one approves. It’s also necessary to understand that until the last couple of decades, people took what is now seen as an extraordinarily lax attitude to it. I went to an all boys’ school. It was well know that one master took an interest in the more attractive young boys, but we all sort of accepted it.
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I went to private and public(yuck, public) schools. I never ran into pedophiles and didn’t even know it existed. my last yr in hi school at a public school in Hollywood, there was a teacher that rubbed up against girls in the photo lab. I told the administrators but they didn’t do anything. The reason I was mad was because a girl I got involved with told me that. If I had my thinking cap on, as I do now, I would have made more of a stink about it. My parents used to scare me into doing better in school by telling me they would send me to catholic school, all boys of course. It worked.
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Thank you for this piece, C, and for other people’s info (you know yourself), I have never felt pressured by you, who have always been very gentlemanly. I should have made clear that it was another blog that particularly upset me (though there have occasionally been people here who have cost me sleep).
Re: children, no, I don’t have any. If I did, I would raise them non-denominational. I would emphasize praying to God from an early age (I think that is one of the few things about my own spiritual life I particularly like, and that attitude also allowed me to hear from God – which of course was by His grace, not my merit). Reading the Bible together as a family would be important to me also, and answering any questions the children had.
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I am glad to read what you say, Nicholas. Mine were taken to the local Anglican Church: one is now an Independent Baptist Pastor; one attends a local Evangelical Church where he sometimes preaches, and the third, the least committed of the three, will still go to an Anglian service with his mother when he is home.
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You should be very proud (though obviously not in the fall-of-satan way): you have done a good job with your children, particularly in an age when church-going statistics are so bad. I am glad that I had Christian exposure as I was going up, and I am glad that education was valued in my house, since that empowered me to do my own reading. This was particularly important as my father is an agnostic/atheist and my mother didn’t go to church while I was growing up. When I “converted” I went to church by myself in the early days.
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My own position was rather similar to yours. My father was an atheist, my mother had been a Methodist, and had some lingering links. Oddly enough, it was School Assemblies which gave me my first real contact with Christianity. I knew at once it was true, and have never wavered in that, although I have often wished for more ‘enthusiasm’.
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I suppose we are all shaped by our individual experiences. I too had Christian assemblies during some of my schooling, but since I moved around a lot that was disrupted. A time of real intensity was when I started reading Romans for the first time – that was electrifying.
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Yes, Romans has that effect – on you and I, and we are in good company, including Augustine and John Wesley 🙂
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Wesley I think had that kind of quiet enthusiasm. He had a real moral authority that didn’t require him to shout like the televangelists we see today. If he raised his voice, that was because there were no microphones for open air meetings in his day.
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Wesley always strikes me as an Anglo-Catholic of the old school who found himself marginalised by his own Church – a shame, as I find him a very great man.
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Yes, as a pietist, he wanted deeper commitment not the kind of revolution that resulted from the Reformation. I suspect he would be horrified by the modern age.
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Yes, I agree. I really ought to read more about him – a very attractive figure.
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I’m afraid that Bosco is only slightly saved, at best. You don’t get 100% with the sort of calumny that he comes out with. Even 40% (the pass mark for Purgatory) is going to need a complete change in his attitude.
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Stuff a sock in it good brother Eccles.
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I am glad to read what you say, Nicholas
Nicolas said he would raise his kids non denominational. may I ask why you are glad to hear that?
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I am always happy that children should learn about God where their parents want. My own went to an Anglican Church, but the two oldest are now non-denominational, with the eldest being an Independent Baptist Pastor.
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Oh mon dieu, what went wrong?? Why didn’t you shakabuku them into the Church Christ founded? I mean, its only their eternal souls we are talking about.
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As I say in the piece, God alone decides who is saved. If this is where they feel they need to be, then so be it, and I am happy that they have not, as so many have, deserted Christ.
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Your sons are lucky to have a father like you. Im lucky to be your friend.
Now, im curious…..you advise me to join the CC, for my own good you say. My question for you is…..do you ever tell your boys that they should consider joining the CC? Im certain that you have.
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No, I have never said that to my sons, and I would never say it to you in seriousness. In the end the Spirit has to move you, and if He doesn’t then He has His reasons. I genuinely believe it is up to God. I do not know why He guided me to His Church, but trust it was for my good. My sons are better Christians than I am, and better men.
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Even though you are a Diana worshiper, I still consider you one of the best of men. Not that men are any good.
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Well, that’s partly kind – but I worship only God.
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Oh, yes, of course. Silly me.
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Never was a truer word spoken.
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“I am always happy that children should learn about God where their parents want.”
“If your daughter had her advice about Catholicism from you, I feel sorry for her. It is a form of child abuse to fill a child’s mind with your own lies and prejudices. I doubt you have the grace to be a bit ashamed of yourself.”
Im proud of myself for having the privilege to know certain things. I sleep good at nite knowing my daughter got a first class education from me. Im thrilled that she has never set foot into a Roman State run religion building. may the Pope be hung with his own entrails. I have no problems with exposing a religion that sends people to hell. You name it. Mormons, Jehovas, new Agers, 7th Dayers. Their followers will get their reward.
Sorry, I just have this pet peeve about my brothers spending eternity in the Lake of Fire. Hope you don’t blame me.
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I’d blame you less if you had any evidence from the Bible for your belief you are saved. So far we have St Paul not being sure, but Bosco being 100% certain.
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I was minding my own business, when god decided to take me. This story is the same of all of the saints. he doesn’t take people 49% or 37%. When one is born again, one is born again, 100%. Its no doubt true that you religious people are not sure you are saved. maybe you should get down on your knees and hug that cement image harder and demand that it tell you that you are saved. maybe , maybe you should get that statue a cup of coffee and stop it from crying. Wipe its tears, or something.
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This is an example of the Church as I see it.
Believers from a host of Christian communities gathered in S. Africa to pray for their country. I have picked up the term ‘invisible church’ here. The idea was both new and foreign to me. Nothing invisible about this church. If communities that were orthodox in terms of the creed refused to exclude one another we would truly represent a universal body. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210714527994074&set=pcb.10210710894063228&type=3&theater
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God’s ways are too high above us for us to question Him. I welcome every believer, and leave it to God. My objection to our friend Bosco is his constant insults directed at my Church. In an earlier comment he said they were inspired by the Jesus he knows. That worries me – for his sake.
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The best excuse ive heard, to date, to defend the CC, is that when people attack it, it shows how that it is Gods true holy apostolic one true universal church. Silly hellbound ninnys, no one is attacking it for doing good……they speak out about its crimes against the most helpless of society…the children in its care….if you want to call it Care.
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You attach it because Satan put it into your heart and you are too dim to see that. It’s why you lie.
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A lie is something someone says and knows it to be false.
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To continue to state something is so when it has been shown not to be is to lie. You have been shown often enough that no one worships Mary, and yet you keep saying we do; you have provided no evidence for this worship, except you insist that bowing = worship, in which case the English must worship the Queen. You argument is so ridiculous that an intelligent 5 year old would be ashamed to keep repeating it. So yes, you are lying, and you must know it if you have three brain cells in working order.
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I find conversion a fascinating topic and I enjoy reading stories of conversion to Christianity. Pertaining to Catholicism, it’s interesting to me the various things that attract people to our faith. My earliest exposures to Catholicism, many years before I took concrete steps toward Rome, included the book “Surprised by Truth”, which left quite an impression on my teenage mind (and heart) at the time.
I’ve enjoyed your last few posts, C. Seeing as how the comments have been fairly restricted lately insofar as how many people contribute to the discussion, I will try to stop by more and comment if I think I’ve got something worthwhile to say. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading some of the banter between you and Nicholas.
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Thank you, Steven. It looks as though some of the toxicity has gone from the comments, which is very welcome. Always happy to hear from you 🙂
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I’m glad you enjoyed our conversation, Steven. For my part, I like it when people are reflective – sometimes our interaction is hindered because we don’t really know what’s going on with the other person. When something is sensitive, it is helpful to know why.
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There is no evidence to show the RCC has the vice in a greater way than any other organisation.
Catholic priests are supposed to be “little Christs” . That’s how the claim goes. Are you saying the claim isn’t true? That its standard practice that a percentage of Little Christs are perverts? Well, in that case, the claim is a lie.
So sorry. I want a religion that doesn’t tell lies.
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Do you understand what the means? They represent Christ at the Mass, and it is only in that sense that they are little Christs. As I have observed before, if you want no sinners in your church, you are out of luck. You are a sinner, do am I.
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Every man on earth is a sinner.
When one dons a holyman costume and people call him Father, we expect him to be a cut above the rest.
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In which case, you are gullible and you ignore the fact we are all sinners. If your only beef with the Church is there are sinners in it, then that’s an odd beef.
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My beef with the catholic graven image church is the same beef I have with the Mormons and the jehovas and with Disneyland and magic mountain and with Hollywood and with rock and roll. Its just that you Mary worshipers get particularly mad at me when I shine a light on your false sick sad religion. You don’t get mad when I lamblast the idiot Mormons….do you?
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It is a kind of sadness that anyone should be so short-sighted that the should hate fine art because they think someone is stupid enough to worship it.
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Im well aware that cathols have to say something to make them feel better about how their fellow cathols bow themselves befor wood and stone and cement. Accusing me and anyone of HATING fine art shows you have run out of good arguments for disobeying the second commandment.I mean, its the easiest commandment to obey. Weve all broken the commandments. Im guilty of idolatry, more than you. I know of no other Christian religion that recommends its followers to bow befor graven images so that the image can help direct their prayers or aid them in any way. religions are worthless as a whole. But the use of idols should alert people that the CC isn’t the way to go.
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The commandment is about worship. No one worships statues. There are some very dim people who think otherwise,
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Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,
help me out here…serving them…..like putting fine clothes on them and gold crowns on the heads of them and jewelry. Don’t people of your faith do that? Im not even going to mention bowing befor them. that’s not up for debate.
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And of what is he jealous? That people were worshipping images. On your version your God is jealous of images – what a puny little God it must be.
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thou shalt not bow down thyself to them
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Why use that word? Because in the ancient world bowing = worship.
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My objection to our friend Bosco is his constant insults directed at my Church
Come on good brother, ive seen you drop the hammer on the catholic clergy a few times. And it was beautiful.
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When I do, it is carefully aimed, and it isn’t directed at the Church as a whole. It is always a mistake to take the line that one rotten apples makes the whole barrel rotten.
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During the summer of 1391, urban mobs in Barcelona and other towns poured into Jewish quarters, rounded up Jews, and gave them a choice of baptism or death. Most took baptism.
Since the Inquisition’s sole purpose was to investigate conversos, the Old Christians had nothing to fear from it.
Remember, the purpose of an inquisition was to find and correct the lost sheep of Christ’s flock.
(That’s was so good of them to correct the lost sheep)
The Spanish people loved their Inquisition. That is why it lasted for so long. It stood guard against error and heresy, protecting the faith of Spain and ensuring the favor of God.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/the-inquisition/the-truth-about-the-spanish-inquisition.html
If good brother Nicholas converts, he needs to learn to be free of heretical ideas.
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You do know, don’t you, that we are not living in the sixteenth century? Just thought I’d remind you. It might be that living in a country which still injects prisoners with poison to kill them, you might not have been aware of that fact.
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I don’t know whats wrong with the imbecile prison system. They don’t need these drugs. just inject a bunch of water into the dirt bag. that will stop his heart.
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You’d have fitted in well with the Inquisition.
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What about the dark dungeons and torture chambers? The Spanish Inquisition had jails, of course. But they were neither especially dark nor dungeon-like. Indeed, as far as prisons go, they were widely considered to be the best in Europe. There were even instances of criminals in Spain purposely blaspheming so as to be transferred to the Inquisition’s prisons.
ibid
I almost let this gem go unreblogged.
The catholic churches Inquisition prisons were kind of a early type of Club Med. I guess we can call the Club Torquemada.
[Uncle Torquemada:]
Good morning Campers!
I’m your Uncle Tomas and I’ll welcome you to Torquemadas Holiday Camp
The camp with the difference
Nevermind the weather
When you come to Torquemadas The holiday’s forever
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Again, do look at what prisons were like in the early modern period – a bit like in parts of the USA.
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I feel so ashamed. ive been misled all these yrs by protestant propaganda. Now that im reading catholic sources of history, im getting the gods honest truth. I feel much better now.
Thank you Catholic Church. (;-D
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I doubt the source you quoted was an official Catholic one. Do you find it Christian to misrepresent the Church? Or is that the Old Adam?
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Its a bona fide Catholic Education Resource Center. Whats wrong….doesn’t it sound good to you? I love it. It was a long article, and I read every bit of it, …in order to educate myself.
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I don’t read it as saying what you say. What it is saying is that by the standards of the day the Inquisition was no worse, and sometimes better, than other prisons.
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I just quoted it. Its not what I said. But anyway, im going to go with it.
Inquisition
Inquisition….Hurrah Hurrah Hurrah
If I quote prot sources you say they are rubbish….when I quote bonifide catholic sources you say they are bogus. I cant win.
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On the whole, no, you can’t, because I am never sure your reading is accurate- can’t think where I got that idea 😏
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My reading is inaccurate.HHHMMMmmmmmm. maybe that’s why im so stupid.
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Is there an actual point to this one of reasoning? Has the Church claimed it did not do these things? St John Paul II apologised for the treatment of the Jews.
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The topic of this hard hitting post is Conversion. I seem to have gotten of track when I re read my comments. I wanted to at least state the catholic version of conversion. Im glad to know how humane the catholic church was during the Inquisition.
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