Nicholas’ post yesterday touched on an issue which is of great importance to us all – the Bible. The first thing to say is that the Bible does not define itself. There is, nowhere in it, a list of the Books that it ought to contain, and as historians are aware, the first full copies of the New Testament we have contain in it books not in the modern Canon, such as the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle of Clement. Why do we not receive these, and indeed, other books? The short answer is that they were not in the first complete Canon as defined by Athanasius in his 39th Festal letter (A.D. 367). Athanasius was concerned, as all good Bishops are, about the spiritual welfare of his flock, and he was well aware that during the crisis precipitated by Arius, claims and counter-claims had been made about what was in Scripture; what he set out to do in his Festal Letter was to define Scripture. In so doing he relied not upon his own virtues and judgment – good though both were – but upon the voice of the Church:
Since some have taken in hand to set in order for themselves the so-called apocrypha and to mingle them with the God-inspired scripture, concerning which we have attained to a sure persuasion, according to what the original eye-witness and ministers of the word have delivered unto our fathers, I also, having been urged by true brethren and having investigated the matter from the beginning, have decided to set forth in order the writings that have been put in the canon, that have been handed down and confirmed as divine, in order that every one who has been led astray may condemn his seducers, and that every one who has remained stainless may rejoice, being again reminded of that.
He drew a clear distinction between the Canon and books such as the Didache and Hermas which, whilst good for pious reading and instruction, were not from the Apostles. On this he was most clear. Such was his authority that St Jerome, who had always doubted whether The Epistle to the Hebrews should be accepted, did so. In parts of the East the Apocalypse was not accepted until the Tenth Century. What is clear from this is that the early Christians had been using a variety of texts, but that the Arian controversy had highlighted the need to have an authoritative list. It had also underlined the need for some authoritative voice in interpretation. Nothing Arius had said was no ‘grounded in Scripture’, but his reading of St John was not that of Athanasius or of Nicaea. Which was right? Athanasius went with the understanding the Church had promoted, and was in that sense a conservative.
Conservative theology gives a vote to the ancestors. Some might say it gives them a veto, but what is the alternative? That would be to change doctrine with every fashionable wind. The record here is not an impressive one.
It always comes back to the question of Authority: is there such a thing and if so, in which Church is it manifested?
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For me that is the inescapable conclusion. It means, for example, that whatever the current Pope’s views on divorce and remarriage might be, they take second place to the settled position of the Church. This, of course, is why he dare not answer the Dubia, because he knows full well what the answers are.
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No communion for divorced people. The church Christ founded says no dispensing grace to divorced folks. The CC has God on a leash and will dispense him to whom they will. After all, the Pope is ruler of heaven , hell, and earth. (;-D
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True – sadly.
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“Why do we not receive these, and indeed, other books? The short answer is that ‘…….If God wanted them in there He would have put them in there.
Some folks believe men are responsible for our bible. Those are they that love the things of men. men are everything.
There are those who aren’t troubled about it. Those who know the lord don’t waste time over it. Either one believes in a powerful God that gave us a reliable book, or there are those who have a form of godliness but deny that God has any power.
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I doubt if any will deny it. But there is no contradiction. God inspires and uses men which is the means He chose to give us the Bible, both in its initial writing and preservation.
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The question is who left out and on what authority books in the earliest codices? They were there, and they are not there now. On whose authority? Why do sola scriptura types not insist on the earliest codices?
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Whos authority. That’s another catholic catch phrase. I see this phrase all over the place. My god put the bible together and used men to do it.
Authority.
Amongst the saints, they are all brothers and there is no lording over each other.
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So, you can’t answer the question – just say so. Explain why you think the NT in its current form is from God, but in the form it was in the earliest Bibles, it wasn’t. Looking forward to an incoherent or nonsensical answer.
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I don’t know what form it had a long time ago. I know what I have in my hands. What I have has the plan of salvation. Im not burdened with these things. My burden is light.
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Poor illiterate Bosco. The books are in early versions of the Bible, so are you saying God put them there?
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My spirit is satisfied with the KJV. The Holy Ghost wouldn’t have put it in my hot little hands if it want good. I don’t know anything about these other books you talk about. But I do know about the 7 books that aren’t in the KJV that are in the Doughy Reims catholic bible. Those books are obvious shams and aren’t the words of God. And yes, I can tell. They are like the Hobbit….made up places and lands and ficticious peoples. Ive been told that I don’t have gods complete plan of salvation because I don’t have those 7 false flights of fantasy. You know what I say to them?……Good luck. The catholic bible also took out the 2nd commandment proscribing the making and bowing befor graven images. it proved a little to pesky, seeing as how one can see all catholics, great and small, lay and bishop, janitor and Pope, on their knees befor images of stone and wood.
Good luck all you Marys.
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Funny fellow. You accept the omission of books in the original Bible in the NT and accept the omission of Ines in the OT – and all in the say so of the homosexual King James – you follow the words of men Bosco. Repent and be saved.
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King James didn’t translate. His scholars did. I didn’t know James had sugar in his tank. That shouldn’t bother catholics none. They are used to it.
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You rely on a 17th century document which was the product of men, I’ll stick with the word of God as defined by the Church founded by Christ.
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Breaking news;
A group of descendants of slaves sold by Jesuits in the 19th century to benefit Georgetown University called on both the university and Maryland Jesuits to do more to promote reconciliation after the horrors of slavery, asking to create a charitable foundation.
The descendants proposed a $1 billion foundation and announced that they had raised $115,000 in seed money, an amount equivalent to the 1838 sales price for the 272 people sold to pay off a debt. That amount is equivalent to about $3 million in today’s dollars.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/09/08/descendants-of-slaves-sold-by-georgetown-call-for-a-1-billion-foundation-for-reconciliation/?utm_term=.3f9c4c035d87
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/04/18/georgetown-slavery-contrition-liturgy-sot.cnn
Enslaving, beating, whipping, separating families, forced labor. A mere 170 yrs ago, rite here in the USA. I guess they had the authority to leave human suffering in their wake. 2000 yrs of handing out misery shows authority.
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Even by your standards, blaming the RCC for the USA’s addiction to slavery is a biggie. You do know America was never a Catholic State. I presume, since you feel so strongly, you will, personally, be making reparations. Look forward to your updating us on this – hate to think you were just taking any stick to beat the Church – that, of course, would show what a ghastly bigot you were.
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I might be a bigot, but your church is doing a lot of apologizing lately.
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And which bit of repentance is bad? Do look up what that fellow called Jesus said about repenting its sins. I didn’t have you down as the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal.
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