Once upon a time, not that long ago, it was a statement of the obvious to ask ‘Is the Pope a Catholic?’ Now, to many, that is a real question. To some the answer is plain enough, and if pressed, questions will be asked about others in the hierarchy too. What such statements have in common is the assumption that the individual making them is competent to judge the Pope and his or her bishop. That seems to me the essence of the Protestant viewpoint. It was the departure point for Luther, as it has been for all heresies. The Catholic Church has a Magisterium to pronounce on orthodoxy and heterodoxy; kind though it is of individuals to claim to be able to provide the same service, there is about it a presumption which is unattractive: who died and elected you Pope? That seems to me essentially Protestant – it assumes that the individual believer has the discernment to pronounce where the Church is silent. I wonder how many such individuals are, like myself, converts, and whether they are not carrying into their new Church, the mind-set of their old? I leave it there as an open questions, as I have no idea.
The modus operandi is certainly a Protestant one. It is to compile lists of statements from Church documents and to fashion them into a club with which to beat the Pope or bishops; it assumes, a priori that the Pope and the bishops are either unaware of such statements, or less able to pronounce on orthodoxy than the individual who has found the quotations on the Internet; that is what I mean by an essentially Protestant mind set.
That said, let us examine for a moment where such phenomena originate, and see where that gets us. Overwhelmingly, at least during this pontificate, it derives from a suspicion that this Pope is undermining the orthodox faith, that he is, himself, unorthodox, and that his is abusing his position to try to change the mind of the Church on matters where change is not possible. That it resembles the reaction of many Republicans to President Obama is not accidental, as the cross-over between such Republicans and such critics of the present Pope is a large one. But, once we have arrived at this point, what then?
The critics of the Pope are sincere in their views; but in other contexts, the same critics would not accept sincerity as a defence. A man who genuinely believed he was a woman would not get much sympathy in such circles by using that as a defence, so it is unclear why, by their own standard, the critics should be let off the hook by the ‘sincerity’ defence, or by the fact that the ‘feel’ what they feel very strongly. Their invocation of certain websites which ‘prove’ their case falls to the same criticism; those who reject the conclusions of most the world’s most qualified researchers on climate change because of what they have read on denier websites are not in a good position to use the same technique to criticise the Catholic Church. Or, if they do, then they are essentially saying they know better than the Pope and the majority of the Cardinals and bishops. I daresay that if you really think that the majority of the world’s scientists are wrong on something so important, then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t have the intellectual arrogance to believe that the majority of the world’s Cardinals and Bishops also know less about what Catholicism is than you do; but there is equally little reason why the rest of us should accept such arrogance as a sign of infallibility.
It is understandable that, after the arduous journey home to Rome, the convert should want a quiet life, but from the beginning the Church has not offered that. This is because even St Paul and St John faced individuals who were sure that the Holy Spirit had told them what those two Saints had not been told, and that they had special insights denied to others. This was why Paul, like John, exhorted believers to rely on the traditions, oral and written, inherited from the past. But across the centuries the truth and weeds have grown up in the same field, as they always will, and it has been the job of the Magisterium to pronounce on the matter. As the monk, Luther, discovered, for the individual to take on that role is to begin the first step on a slippery slope.
Yes, as Catholics, we have a great concern for orthodoxy and tradition, but why proceed from the assumption that the Magisterium takes another view? We either believe that the Holy Spirit will guard the Church from material error, or we don’t, and if we act as though He can only do so with our help as a key-board warrior, then we incur the sin of presumption. Obedience is easy, so is tolerance, when we obey and tolerate that with which we agree.
In conclusion, let us recall what the Lord Jesus told Mother Julian in the thirteenth ‘showing’:
“In my folly, before this time I often wondered why, by the great foreseeing wisdom of God, the onset of sin was not prevented: for then, I thought, all should have been well. This impulse was much to be avoided, but nevertheless I mourned and sorrowed because of it, without reason and discretion.
“But Jesus, who in this vision informed me of all that is needed by me, answered with these words and said: ‘It was necessary that there should be sin; but all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.’
Amen.
It is worth pointing out that the Holy Spirit doesn’t protect Popes from error or from causing harm to the faithful. We have examples of Popes who have taught heresy and Popes who have allowed heresy to be taught.
My personal opinion is that Pope Francis is almost certainly a heretic. He hasn’t bound his errors on the faithful but he has allowed heresy to be spread in his name.
I have come to the view that he is almost certainly the worst pope in the history of the Church. I can’t think of one who has been worse.
In holding these views, my conscience isn’t troubled in the slightest.
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Possibly – but given the competition, I’d be hesitant to award the palm to this Pope – competition too severe.
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You betcha good brother Chalcedon.
In one instance, Boniface used the Papal armies to raze several Colonna towns to the ground. Among them was Palestrina, a town of 6,000 people, every one of whom was massacred at Boniface’s command. This was reportedly after the town had surrendered having received assurances from Boniface that they would be spared.
Not content with committing one mortal sin at a time, he was known for engaging in threesomes with a married woman and her daughter. If you’re keeping track, that’s three divine laws broken in a single night (adultery, incest, and breaking the vows of celibacy). Which is reprehensible or efficient, depending on your perspective.
Bennidict IX
feasting on immorality as St Damien describes him. Incest and bestiality was a favorite of Bennidict IX. Murder was a favored past time also.
I wont go any further, theres not enough time on earth to describe many of the wicked popes. Good brother Bergoglio is one of the nicer ones, even though he is the head of a Satanic pedophile ring.
Be sure to drop your dime in the collection plate.
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Oddly enough, Bosco, you are not the first person to discover this. Not sure what point you are making
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Im confirming what you said to good brother Blogger. He seems to not know this. Im in a conversation with some catholic girl rite this moment in another blog, she says all this negative info about any pope is a protestant lie.She has a few people trying to inform her, but she dismisses everything as falsified protestant lies. She what I call a good catholic. She paid attention in sunday catholic school. The popes are like our presidents, all wonderful great American souls.
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Some of the info is certainly from those who opposed his family, but much of it is true. So what? Did he deny the Lord three times before the cock crowed?
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So youre saying that we are all sinners, and the playing field is level? That’s what I say all the time. Sure….any one of those Popes could have gotten saved befor they died. As long as one is alive one can get saved. The point is, that the CC claims its popes are god on earth. Now if one claim is false, couldn’t more claims be false? That opens the door to the CCs claim as being the main vehicle for mans salvation as being false also.
Its something to think about the closer one gets to …”meeting ones maker”
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As it happens, Benedict IX repented at the end and asked for forgiveness – who but God can judge us?
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I agree with what you wrote Chalcedon. I also think of the words of St Paul about those who prefer “Cephas” or himself, rather than Christ. We have become used to holy and erudite men as Popes: Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI etc. It can lead to a kind of ‘popolatry’; thus when an incumbent is like Pope Francis (about whom I choose not to comment), some feel completely at sea, disappointed and angry. Popes come and go; some are worthier of their office than others. We must keep our eyes fixed on Christ, the long tradition of magisterial teachings, the saints, the sacraments, especially the Mass and so on, remembering as Ginny quoted, Christ’s words about the ‘gates of Hell’ not prevailing and Julian of Norwich…
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I agree entirely -St Peter often meant well but said the wrong thing – and some of his successors do the same 😒
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All the Pope really needs to do is to contradict those (some of them bishops and cardinals) who claim that he is changing traditional Church teaching. Simply answering his cardinals’ dubia – and it is an unprecedented step for a pope to ignore such enquiries – would put to rest claims that he is trying to take the change away from the teaching of two thousand years. But it is not the Jesuit way to give honest answers to honest questions.
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I don’t disagree.
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Yeah good sister annie, I mean good brother Eccles. For someone who told me that they aren’t catholic, you sure do have a big catholic opinion on things. Busted….Haaaaaaaahhahahahahah
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I salute your call to your fellow Catholics for integrity, but I cannot as a Protestant agree with a number of points in this piece. I wish you and your co-religionists well, C, and I hope that the Catholic Church emerges in a healthy state from its current crisis. We all need to pull together if we are to survive the storm that is breaking upon us.
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Thank you, Nicholas 😊
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Yes, indeed, Nicholas.
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AAAAAAKKKKKKKK!!!!! Do you reeeeeeally think I walk around like this? I’m not a Traditionalist, so if you need to accuse me of something, try accusing me of what I really am: faithful. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Sorry, ginny, in what sense is this post about you?
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I was wondering the same question.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425232/climate-change-no-its-not-97-percent-consensus-ian-tuttle
http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/scientists-refute-manmade-global-warming/http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/scientists-refute-manmade-global-warming/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/#3e849933bb32
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” __ Joseph Goebbels
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As I say, Scoop, if you go to denier websites you will find fake facts. The vast majority of the world’s scientists concur that it happening. There are always a few nutjobs, and always those who will believe them.
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I guess you didn’t read the links then. Too bad your so gullible. when I was about 45 it was all about nuclear winter that was coming our way due to man made global cooling. Whatever works to sell the ‘world order’ and make Al Gore the first trillionaire in history. I have no doubt that 99% of people who go to college believe it: but then they believe the liberal agenda on everything under the sun. There is no debate: if you decide to do so, then you are a ‘denier’ . . . which you have bought into. I suppose you have bought into the racist claims and the 1% claims and the white privilege rhetoric as well then. It wouldn’t surprise me . . . since you’re in academia . . . which to me is like saying that you are surrounded by liberal doomsday advocates constantly. Yet it is their agendas that will bring on a doomsday much more assuredly than the scenarios they like to pose.
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I did, and I think you’ll find the links I sent you deal with everything in them.
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I guess good brother scoop doesn’t believe in global warming. he should see how the ice cap in the north pole has shrunk. Big chunks breaking off. Just a few mins reading a chemistry text book will tell you carbon dioxide reflects the heat back to earth, putting a lid on the earth, if you will. That doesn’t warm the whole earth all at once, but it effects weather patterns, even causing heavy snow in places. You wont find this spelled out in older text book but you will find it in all the newer ones. Weve always known it but no one cared, til now. We knew yrs ago chlorofluorocarbons break up ozone(O3) molecules that reflect cosmic rays back out into space.
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There are none so blind as those who refuse to see 😦
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This might help you:
http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
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This part is especially relevant – all of these against your websites and still you don’t get it?
http://grist.org/climate-energy/global-warming-is-a-hoax/
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Another silly ‘denier’ site. They do not answer the real questions that the scientists have brought up. You cannot today get a job in a college or in some scientific group that depends on funding from the government or from the UN unless you toe the party line. No wonder it is taken as common sense. And you do not come back and dispute the findings of the other scientists that were quoted. It is far easier to simply imply that everybody is wrong and that you are in the majority. But this is not democracy in action it was supposed to be science. You can either prove and disprove those who disagree with your findings or you can’t.
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I see you didn’t bother reading through it – it answers all the questions you raise. Democracy has nothing to do with either sceintific proof or dogmatic truth. Still, you choose to believe that every government and every reputable scientific authority is involved in a conspiracy – so there is no way you would change your mind. I worked with these people for nearly 40 years, and your impuning of their integrity is disgraceful. Back in the 70s it was hard to get funding for what, back then was considered outlandish. How many climate scientists have you ever atually met?
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I doubt that very many think they are in a conspiracy though I bet they all know the money and the advantages of controlling carbon emissions for their own financial growth. Nobody wants to be left behind.
They can convince me when they can tell me what the ‘normal’ temperature and atmosphere of the planet is or should be at this point; given the output of the sun and what the ‘normal’ atmosphere should be. That we are going through a cycle of warming and cooling over and over again is nothing to be worried about. I find it about as useful endeavor as spending oodles of money to destroy a large meteor that might hit the earth. See . . . I trust that there will be an earth and people here when Christ comes again. If they can prove me wrong then there is no truth in Christ.
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The site I linked to deals with all these arguments – do read it.
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He believes in the promises of Christ then?
I also have a prejudiced belief that God did not create a home for man that was in such imminent peril that by our mere living as human beings makes life on the planet tenuous at best. Evil exists but using our creative gift to produce more goods and services for ourselves and our offspring is not of itself evil: it is a movement towards relieving hardships and opening up areas of this earth for habitation that were not habitable before. The solution to ‘global warming crisis’ is, of course, evil: reducing the planet’s population to 2 billion people (sustainable goals don’t you know). So open borders, global warming, and shifting wealth from nation to nation is the solution . . . which will need a world wide monitoring, legal and enforcement component. I wonder if babies will be limited to 2 per family around the world until we reach the coveted 2 billion people that Jeffrey Sachs is aiming for? No doubt you are happy to do whatever it takes to ‘save the planet’ but I don’t think it is as fragile as they have scientifically determined. I still believe the God is in charge and that it will endure until there is a new heaven and a new earth.
O ye of little faith. My faith does not depend on their science and their scientific models that require us to submit to their worldwide regulation of every aspect of our lives. My currency still says In God We Trust rather than In the Liberal Elite We Trust. And I will go to my grave holding to that axiom, God willing.
All of the above, of course, does not mean that I am for dirty air or dirty water etc. It only means that the regulation of population, production, food and our use of the earths resources will regulate itself as new technologies ascend and old technologies subside.
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Oddly enough, what they are trying to do is to preserve the human race. Quite what the liberal elite have to do with this outside the tin-foil hat brigade I can’t imagine.
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So Jeffrey Sachs and the liberal elite like Al Gore and Obama have not the same goals? Seems to me that regulationg the population is right up there at the forefront of their ‘fix’ for mankind and that a ‘carbon tax’ and its regulation is right up there as well. If that is not Orwellian to you actually mystifies me. It didn’t take a tin-foil hat to come up with their agendas: they are on record as to what they envision for the rest of us.
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None of them are scientists and if you are operating a ‘guilt by association ‘ I winder why. Perhaps God has created beings with the foresight to warn us so that we do not further damage his creation? But perhaps, like the children of Israel we do not want to listen?
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I wonder what scientist is going to lead mankind to a kinder and gentler world. They won’t amount to spit in the end. They are only being played to write the playbook for the elite who will actually create regulations and enforce them. Be realistic.
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Since when was that the job of a scientist? The Pope is trying to do that, but gets mocked by you because you’ve bought into the denier myth.
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Racist! Denier! etc. etc. etc.
You really have swallowed this swill hook, line and sinker.
What part of the Catholic Dogma, “Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men.” don’t you believe? The earth and men will be here or they won’t. I accept by faith that it will be here. It will not be destroyed and we need not expend money and give up God-given freedoms to ‘fix’ what we can not create or fix by our genius. What hubris for man to think he holds the power of God.
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I believe it, and maybe combatting close mate change is part of God’s plan to ensure his planet is still here.
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So if we do nothing God will change His mind about us? What about this loving God who loves us so much that He died for us. He will not hold this home of ours in His hand and hold it in existence in order that history can play out then? I don’t think it depends on us; but on Him and He keeps His promises.
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Look what God did to those who ignored his advice in the past. Do you suppose he cannot punish the hubris of those who ignore the signs. Climate change, left unchecked, might well wipe out millions. But maybe they will be the Remnanr?
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Then it will be abundantly clear to everyone, which it isn’t.
Yes the remnant is bound to be Al Gore and company.
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I don’t recall the Israelites all being clear.
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“Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”
Seems clear to me. Just as it is clear to carry the Gospel to all the nations of the world. I don’t read a thing about this new ‘advice’ you’re referring to. Advice from the likes of today’s scientists doesn’t carry the same authoritative demands as that which comes from God.
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We are stewards, we have behaved as though we were owners.
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Stewards doesn’t mean that you cannot use the minerals and fossil fuels of the earth. When I think of stewardship I think of our search for newer and better resources as others become depleted and more costly. It has always worked in the past: you won’t find any steam locomotives running about today; just diesel/electrics. Most of our larger ships are now powered by nuclear.
As oil and coal grow scarce, then natural gas will prevail and then perhaps hydrogen derived from seawater. Who knows where technology will end? To simply charge people for using what is now the least expensive options is utter rubbish. It will sort itself out without unduly taxing everybody on the planet for using these resources.
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As I say, if you read the links, you’d get it.
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I know its really, really scary isn’t it? 🙂
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Am I missing something? I am at a loss to see how climate change/global warming are relevant to this blog.
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Perhaps, Francis. C is using as a ‘proof’ of his thesis the arguments of climate ‘deniers’:
“Their invocation of certain websites which ‘prove’ their case falls to the same criticism; those who reject the conclusions of most the world’s most qualified researchers on climate change because of what they have read on denier websites are not in a good position to use the same technique to criticise the Catholic Church. Or, if they do, then they are essentially saying they know better than the Pope and the majority of the Cardinals and bishops. I daresay that if you really think that the majority of the world’s scientists are wrong on something so important, then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t have the intellectual arrogance to believe that the majority of the world’s Cardinals and Bishops also know less about what Catholicism is than you do; but there is equally little reason why the rest of us should accept such arrogance as a sign of infallibility.”
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No, they are not – they are simply saying that science shows that we are damaging God’s creation. You seem to think we aren’t, but real science shows we are. Laudato Si suggested we might want to be better stewards of God’s earth, but you didn’t much care for it as I recall?
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Every form of life leaves a footprint on the earth and destroys something of the earth and also leaves something for the other forms of life on the earth. Laudato Si is a silly bit of Al Gore-isms put to ink.
Being a good steward is what most of us do already: we want to survive. We don’t use our bedrooms as a bathroom. So what is his point if isn’t to push the agenda of the left?
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Man-made climate change did not originate with ‘the left’, although the left took it up. What the Pope is trying to do us to point out the obvious – which is the Church should not leave it to the left – but you seem deaf to that and to want to link science and the left in a guilt by association scenario.
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Sure they took it up just like they turned down this centuries best form of clean energy; nuclear. How can you say that the Pope’s point is obvious — to not leave it to the left; as he invites nothing but population control advocates to the Vatican to work on these ‘problems’?
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Again, you do this guilt by association- just because you only want to see one point of view does not mean there is nothing only that
Point of view, so knowing what the other side thinks can be helpful – unless you have evidence that the Pope is advocating abortion? You might want to leave climate change in the hands of the Left, but stop and think for a minute – if it is real, that’s not a smart thing to do.
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Well the Pope has admitted to accepting contraception in cases of sex with those who have the zika virus . . . so what he personally believes is a mystery . . . but not those whom he kabbitzes with who definitely believe in both contraception and abortion not to mention the ideas of Ezekiel Emanuel who has informed many on the left on his ideas of healthcare: that it should be given low priority before the age of reason and increase through the most productive phase of life and then be regulated after the age of 50 . . . steeply falling after that. His ideas might be a useful and ‘bio-ethical’ solution to lowering the damage of all these pesky humans who inhabit this planet.
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So again, you prefer guilt by association? Has it occurred to you that God might have given us the men and women who can help us preserve his planet?
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Yes indeed an abortionis who killed more than 10,000 babies and Jeffrey Sachs who wants to eliminate births all over the planet but especially in Africa. God gave them to us as a gift. You have to be kidding!
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Are they climate scientists – no – and I was clearly referring to them.
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As I said neither is the Pope or any of the folks who put this ‘scientific’ analysis to practice. It is accepting this analysis uncritically that will lead us into being captives of an uncaring world oligarchy if you let them frighten you into their submission. Fear it seems is their favorite tactic though the real fear is those who think they have the means to direct the whole world into a better place; that is where hubris has them acting like God.
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Maybe there is something of which to be frightened.
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Go ahead if you like. Its a good excuse to have an extra Scotch after work. 🙂
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Alternatively, God is giving us a warning which you want us to ignore because of your conspiracy theory.
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So it is God who is giving us a warning? News to me, my friend.
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It often is when we ignore the evidence.
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Not evident to me. My weather is fine, the air I breathe is cleaner than it has been for 100’s of years and the same could be said of the water I drink. If they were serious, they would have issued permits for more nuclear power plants . . . but I doubt that fit into their agenda of whipping up fear unless we submit to their plan for fixing the planet.
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Oh well, your air is fine, so all those scientists should listen to you? Thank God he has given us men with the brains and expertise to sort out the mess you deny exists. If he hadn’t we would see too late the results of our selfishness.
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The technology exists for those countries who can afford it and for those that don’t usually they are mostly agrarian unless you’re looking a China . . . where we are too afraid of them to boycott their goods until they clean up their environment. But then again, they most of the world debt and so therefore it is not on the West’s agenda to tick them off.
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You refuse to believe what, fortunately every government does believe. If they are right, we all get to be OK. If they did what you want and you were wrong, millions die. I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.
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5 billion will die in time plus those who are normally killed by contraception and abortion if we do what they say. Your projected millions, which I don’t believe for a minute, will be but a pittance of the charted goal of the UN.
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If you really think the UN wants to be a world government, I’d recommend reading fewer odd websites. The scientific consensus is overwhelming, but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see because the facts get in the way of their prejudices.
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If you leave these things in the hands of the Left – and make no mistake, that is what your attitude will do – then it is the Left which dictates the policies. The Church has its own teaching on how we might regulate family growth, and there is no reason why it can’t make its voice heard here – if it engages. If it imitates you and sticks its fingers in its ears saying ‘everything’s OK, I read it on the web’, then the Left retains control. Fortunately we have a Pope who will engage.
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“So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today.”
Life is so much less stressful if we but heed the words of our Lord.
That is why, perhaps, I do not think about these things at all . . . only that which confronts me from day to day. Hope you don’t let such things worry you . . . I find it so useless that I have no interest in reading the pros or the cons on the issue. I just want to live a day today and let tomorrow be my focus tomorrow.
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A very selfish point of view, which, thank God, is not shared by the Pope or Christ’s Church. God has given us brains to think and hands to act, not just backsides to sit upon and fingers to put in our ears.
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If you don’t like it take it up with God: that was His advice as you know and I suppose His point was that we should be selfish.
I’m not sure what selfishness has to do with it. People are living longer and healthier lives and the poor are far less poor and much better fed and cared for than they were a few generations ago . . . unless some despot is confiscating the aid that the West sends to them.
Shouldn’t the Pope be yelling at countries like Dubai who spend ungodly amounts of money to build towers of Babel in order to make their name great. And also, I wonder how many refugees all their hundreds of billions of dollars could have helped . . . same could be said for Saudi Arabia and other rich Emirates.
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None of which addresses the seriousness of the damage we are doing to the climate by our selfishness. I am unable to locate the words of Jesus where he advises us to be selfish.
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Feel free to live a life of self-loathing for your ‘selfishness’ if it makes you feel righteous somehow. I find it a fruitless, misdirection from our teleological goal. You worry over many things Martha, but Mary has taken the better part.
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No self-loathing – simple Christian compassion for others
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Yes, I’m sure that your Western living, driving and eating has caused the death and the suffering of untold millions throughout the world. It’s good that you are not self-loathing but quite commendable that carry on living but take time out to feel compassion for all the suffering your life has caused this world.
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I have no idea what you are in about. There is an overwhelming scientific consensus about Global warming and you reduce it to a Right/Left thing – best of luck with that.
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There is an overwhelming consensus that our coasts will be hit by a tidal wave or that there will be hurricanes, volcanic eruptions and tornados. Should we tax people who live in areas that are prone to such? You speak of compassion but have none when it comes to adding a carbon tax to all goods which will eventually mean that the rich will be the only ones able to live like they do right now. Very compassionate indeed. I wonder what happens to production of medicines and food items that the west sends all over the world to help the poor and underprivileged. I guess we simply end up being like them. Then we can all blame the rich and covet their wealth.
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That, literally, makes no sense. The effects of man/made climate change can be moderated, and you go on about the usual weather – you do know there is a difference between weather and climate, don’t you?
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Yes, one is real with real victims and can be counted on with some regularity and the other is hypothetical and the victims unknown and hypothetical.
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Well, clearly, the wise man says let’s ignore science and the future and live for today … really?
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Yes like the science that said that eggs and chocolate were bad for the heart. Its a moving target . . . at least the Gospels seem to give mankind great hope. We will be here for the 2nd coming no matter what science is telling us and this despite the risk of nuclear war which is far more likely than destruction of a whole planet by a change in climate.
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No, not like that science. You really do not get it at all. You did not see all the world’s governments taking action on eggs, and eggs were not an existential threat to mankind. God has given us the wits to avoid destroying his earth. You seem not to have the wit to realise this and wish to stick your head in the sand, which is fine, as you are not running the USA. I don’t know why you seem to imagine there is a conflict between the second coming and stopping global warming, but maybe you read something somewhere, who knows?
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So God should have said to multiply and fill the earth until there are so many that it becomes a problem. Then you will have to find a way to fix this without changing the teachings on marriage or by reversing our path into the future and return to the past.
I have more faith in God than these purveyors of certain doom.
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God gave us brains. Some of us use them, others, well, they prefer not to.
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Indeed, in order for Christ to return we must all be well versed in climate science. He will not close out human history without us all being followers of man made global warming theories.
My brain says that Christ will keep His promise and it is not dependent on us and how we handle the many problems we make for ourselves while we live upon this planet. No generation has had this new ‘gospel’ being preached that is a necessity for man. I find it all rather speculative and I am really not interested in their theories.
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Clearly the US Coast Guard know less than you about these things:
https://robertscribbler.com/2017/04/08/an-armada-of-ice-bergs-has-just-invaded-the-north-atlantic/#comments
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Oy vey! Its the end of the world!
Or maybe it will be when the magnetic field changes, or we get hit by a meteor or we get sucked up by a black hole or a supernova is close enough to irradiate us with cosmic particles.
For you believers: I think you should either have a suicide day to save the planet or quit marrying and having children. Of course, the old NFP solution of the Francis [which you are offering as part of the solution] has not been supported by Catholics hardly at all and will obviously make no impact on Muslims or non-Catholics at all who are the largest breeders on the planet. Therefore, the only thing left is to save the planet for them . . . or at least buy them some time until they overpopulate the planet and kill themselves off. Its the Christian thing to do. Comapassion you know. There is your solution from the right instead of the ‘tax them’ left wing crowd.
For you Europeans who have populations under 18 years old which are 50% Muslim or where the most popular boys name is Mohammad then you are going to be Muslims pretty soon anyway. The only question is whether you want to be Sunni or Shia. Seems to me this is more pressing issue than climate but who am I to judge?
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Scoop, the only ‘believer’ here is you, as you ignore all the world’s chief scientists and prefer the ju-ju of a few nut jobs on the web; I am going with science, you with faith that they are wrong; which one of those positions is closer to ‘faith’ is clear.
Quite why the need to go to the extreme of a ‘suicide’ day, only you can know; it is usual in these discussions to guy your opponents’ position, not make asinine comments which show your own up – but if that floats your boat, so be it.
If you can actually name me a European country where 50% of the under 18s are Muslim, you get a gold star; if you can’t, you are peddling fake news. You are, of course, peddling fake news as there isn’t one. But as usual, you prefer the sensationalist and the absurd to science.
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Well I take that as a compliment since I am a believer in the promises of Christ. Indeed so . . . I have faith which you and many others seem to lack.
Yes, you do have a plethora of one liner insults but despite that you have not explained the answer to the problem and how we can ‘fix’ this hypothetical problem without hurting more people than helping them.
If I am not mistaken most projections are for that demographic to unfold all over Europe around 2050.
Well how are you going to limit the number of humans on the planet without doing something radical? Maybe a 2 baby limit per woman and then they must be sterilized? Just floating some other radical fixes to a problem that you fail to address and give me the answer to. So how are you going to prevent what you think is inevitable? Are you going to shut down progress or are you going to shut down births internationally or a combination of both. And tell me what the consequence will be for the run of the mill citizen who will pay the freight.
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In which case read what I wrote again. You are the one who, for whatever reason, seems to see a contradiction between the Second Coming and tackling global warming. most of the rest of us see in the work of the scientists God at work guiding his sinful creation; you seem to see no evidence of sin in the way we treat God’s planet; best of luck with that being the one place Original Sin does not operate.
If you bothered to read the link I gave you, you’d see many suggestions as to how we tackle the problem; if you expect me, a non-scientist to give you comprehensive list, I have, in that link.
How are we going to limit the number of humans? The Church has much to say on this, but I guess you were too busy sneering to actually read Laudato Si? You say you have faith, well, if the Church leaves this to the world, then we shall get the world’s solutions, by suggesting natural family planning and self-restraint, the Pope is bringing a Catholic sensibility to bear on this – something which won’t happen if the Church puts its fingers in its ears and imitates you.
As for the cost, well I should have thought it the essence of good stewardship not to load all of this onto future generations.
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Your trouble is that you seem to think that this is as important an issue as is the loss of belief in Christ. I think you dillute your witness of Christ by flailing about with every issue that the secular world floats for our attention. I prefer to stay focused on the prize. You think that this Pope is going to gain adherents to NFP? Really. How long has that been around? We had an office to help people in our diocese for those who were interested in information on this and it had to close due to a lack of anybody who was interested. Oh yes . . . this is going to find legs now that we have the popular Francis speaking about it. I’m sure the whole world has a copy of Laudato Si on their nightstand and read it everyday as though it were the Gospel. And how much did he speak about it . . . you know, where most of the world gets an idea of what the Pope says? A quick mention maybe?
You think perhaps a carbon tax will only effect us and not future generations? You think limiting families only effects us? Maybe bio-ethics will allow more to die in their youth and old age and lower the carbon footprint. After all, we are living so much longer than before. That has to be a consideration in all of this.
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No, I don’t, you are the one elevating it to being a challenge to the Second Coming. I am simply reflecting the position of the Pope and the Bishops on this, no more, no less. The dilution of the witness of Christ seems to me to come from those who refuse to use their God-given brains to understand what science is telling us, and who seem to imagine this is one area where sinful man is not sinning.
You are, of course, right, to say that most Catholics are doing what you are doing and not reading Laudato Si – I don’t actually see that is anything to be proud of. The Pope has spoken about it, but if he had said more, no doubt you’d have been accusing him of giving it too much importance. He can’t win with you: if he says something, it’s too much, and now you’re asking how much he spoke about it; give me a break, it’s too funny.
I think there are many ways of tackling climate change, and the worst ones are the ones the Left goes for, but then in leaving it to the Left, we ensure only its ways are tried.
I am sure you are aware we live in a world not governed by the Church, so quite why you bring up the world’s solutions at the same time as you reject the whole notion of man-made climate change, I can’t tell. The world will go on its way, it is the job of the Church to warn it of the perils of that.
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What is funny is that you actually think that the Western Eurpean Post Christians who already have a negative population growth is going to make a difference in this. You best find a way to limit the Muslims who outpace every other demographic on the planet for breeding.
Why I bring up the solutions, dear friend, is that the premise is only a motivation to get to the final solution.
Yes I noticed the good job the Church, the Pope and the Bishops did in fighting for traditional marriage and negating the contraceptive and abortive measures every ‘civilized’ nation is now following; even in Italy. Cd. Cupich is a great poster boy for the Vatican’s approach.
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You are, for your own purposes, confusing two things, perhaps because of your obsession with the left. No one has said that population rise is causing climate change, it is what we are doing to the planet; it is the Malthusian Left who focus on more people.
Oddly, the best hope we have of the Muslims not over-breeding is that they become like the West; but surely you should be in favour of their multiplying and being fruitful?
Just because the world is hell-bent on ignoring the teaching of the Church doesn’t mean the Church should not make the effort.
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Most of the ‘experts’ the Vatican is consulting with believe that. The Pope brought on a real radical in this regard in 2015: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/17/pope-francis-appoints-population-control-extremist-to-vatican-post/
In a post-Christian host nation, that might be a problem if the goal is to limit population growth . . . unless you pass legislation to end this: https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/population-controllers-to-vatican-responsible-parenthood-has-failed.-use-ta
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Do you usually take one swallow to make a spring? The problem with proceeding from a hermeneutic of paranoia is surely obvious to you?
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I keep telling you that I am not paranoid. I am used to the tactics of those who seek to control people. I just refuse to play their games. They create a problem so that they can enact their solution: which is usually something nobody would accept unless they are driven by fear.
Terrorism has been used in similar manner to rob us of our privacy and freedoms. They now routinely spy on private citizens and we give up these freedoms with smiles on our faces. Its a dangerous precipice upon which we stand. They use the same tactics continually and we are frightened to submit.
I’ll just go to the gulag after another Loretta Lynch gets appointed and live the simple life.
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Who are these powerful people who can’t even get HRC elected?
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Excuse me, C, but that seems a rather stupid question. Here in the US it is the entrenched ‘inside the beltway’ elites who are heavily left leaning career bureaucrats. Seems quite obvious to me . . . maybe the UK doesn’t have these types but that would certainly come as a surprise to me.
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No, we are quite different on that respect. Although your idea of the ‘left’ is quite funny to a European, as your Democrats are quite conservative on many matters.
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I can see I did miss something!
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