Neo’s post yesterday put forward a view which it seems increasingly difficult to advance without incurring allegations of ‘racism’ (which given that Islam is not a race is a bit odd, unless one appreciates that the label is a catch-all designed to demonise the critic; it is certainly not an adjunct to reasonable discussion, and I should have thought that by now there was sufficient evidence to suggest that curtailing discussion in this way creates an eventually irresistible groundswell of discontent which can lead to some odd places politically.
That said, two things need adding by way of introduction: why do we have this problem in this form now; and how does this situation map onto the history of our relationship with Islam?
We have the situation we have now because the Western Powers intervened in Iraq and Libya, and because we miscalculated the Syrian crisis. That is to say we are not innocent bystanders suddenly lumbered with lots of refugees because of some crisis that had no connection with us. Indeed, it is only geographical distance that keeps the main actor in the drama, the USA, from the consequences of its actions in the Middle East. It is all very well for Americans to point at the dangers Europe is bringing on itself by taking in the numbers of refugees it is taking, but what was the alternative? To let them die? Being the world’s policeman is an expensive business, but the cost to the refugees is not being paid for by the world’s policeman; at the very least, some expression of responsibility for the situation from the USA would be helpful; some positive suggestion as to alternative policies would be useful. Can anyone really be surprised that men traumatised by war and flight turn out not to be the most Law-abiding people?
To draw a parallel between this situation and the long history of Christian-Muslim conflict is lazy thinking. These people did not choose to come here, they left, for the most part, because our intervention in their native country had made their lives impossible.. if we really think there are large numbers of people willing to leave their country and cross the sea in small boats at risk to life and limb, we need more of a sense of empathy.
Western Europe is, literally, dying out. We contraceptive and abort to a degree that we are not replacing our population- which is one of the reasons Mrs Merkel and others welcomed the refugees; they provide a way of defusing a demographic time-bomb. There are many hints we could do, from rethinking how we deal with refugees, through to how we deal with Islamic nations, but we might want to start with defusing that time-bomb ourselves.
The antecedents are present too, colonialism and Neo-colonialism, especially oil and corporate colonialism. The emergence of and the reemergence of Wahhabism, the Muslim brotherhood in response to identity, values, tradition, welfare, especially poverty. The toppling of the Shah was but a hint.
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“These people did not choose to come here, they left, for the most part, because our intervention in their native country had made their lives impossible.”
Absolutely chalcedon.
Now we have the duty and responsibility to look after them. They are the strangers in our midst.
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Very true, Malcolm – as Christians we can do none other.
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I agree with the first half of this post and the responsibility of the western coalition powers that went into Iraq and other areas.
But Europe had a problem with a growing Islamic population prior to this. The actions of the coalition has only speeded the increase of the problem.
The essential issue is that the kingdom of Islam does fight, always has and always will to establish its supremacy and domination of the cultures it invades either by force or immigration.
Christ servants should not fight, use violence, intimidation or manipulation to further the Kingdom of God. Precisely because Christ kingdom is not of this world.
However that is the point Islam’s kingdom is ‘Of this world’ and its adherents were commissioned to fight to expand it, from the start until now by their prophet.
The sad fact that Christendom (As opposed to a genuine expression of Christianity) has fought to establish a religious kingdom of sorts – but that was never Christ Kingdom. Such efforts were and are an aberration of the Christian faith.
Whereas when a Muslim fights to establish or further Islam he interprets his faith accurately. Islam is incompatible with democracy and any democratic states should have realised this and prevented those with a fundamentally violent and subversive philosophy from entering their countries. I have read that there are statements in American legislation that could be applied to this understanding of Islam for that purpose.
Granted the majority of Muslims (Perhaps the vast majority in some places) are peace loving people. However many of them have never read the Quran in a language they can understand, thank God!
The Quran produces terrorist is the view of numbers of converted Muslims I have read of. One young now a Christian apologist said “The Quran makes good Muslims into bad people!
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I completely agree with you Rob. I would further add that Islam is not just an organisation of humans, but is a spiritual force, an expression of the powers oppose the God of Israel. I reject the “three Abrahamic faiths” doctrine and would rather be punished for my view than compromise and claim that the God of the Qur’an is the same as the God we worship.
To any Muslim who reads this: you do not have to be a slave of Allah. Jesus died to set you free from the tyranny of the gods of the Gentiles. You are free to serve the one true God – and He will welcome you with loving arms, arms that were pierced by nails for your sake. God loves you, and His love is unconditional.
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I’ve always rejected that expression “three Abrahamic Faiths,” as it flies in the face of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In Christianity Conversion is by the Word of God. In Islam conversion is by the power of the Sword.
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Scope said quite a while ago that the first duty of the state is the protection of it peoples. It is in agreement with this responsibility of a secular democracy that I have commented.
How we as Christians should treat immigrants in our nations is entirely another matter and comes under the teaching of “Love your neighbour as yourself”. I myself an am immigrant for the sake of the Kingdom of God from UK to Barbados and am grateful for the warm reception I have experienced from some.
I also wonder from a perspective of faith whether the immigration of Islamic peoples to UK. and USA. in particular is in the providence of God. There are two ways to consider this
E. H. Broadbent in his book “The Pilgrim Church” (Which sketches 2000 years history of dissenting Christians) speculates that Islam was the judgement of God upon the apostasy Churches that picked up the sword in joined themselves to the power of the state. It could be a judgement on our increasingly godless societies.
An alternative OR parallel question is whether it is in the plan of God to bring such immigrants to places where they may more easily learn of Christ and turn to Him as Saviour and Lord. In my own old home city one Baptist church with an elderly pastor has seen scores of Muslims convert to Christ. I have no overall statistics on this phenomena.
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Pingback: We are Responsible for Everything that has Happened in the Middle East and as Christians we Must Provided for all the Refugees to our Nations: Its the only Christian to do, don’t you know? | Servus Fidelis ~ The Faithful Servant
Pingback: We are Responsible for Everything that has Happened in the Middle East and as Christians we Must Provided for all the Refugees to our Nations: Its the only Christian to do, don’t you know? | Servus Fidelis ~ The Faithful Servant
Do not include “me” in we.
As Christians, we have a duty to help those in needd, works of. Mercy.
We do not, however, have a duty to those who squander charity–read Sirach. Further, we do not have a duty to those who constantly, let alone violently, reject the Gospel. Read Acts.
It seems to me, we have been trying to convert the Middle East Muslim for 14 centuries. Time to “shake the dust from our feet.”
Now, please turn your attention to the Koran, and jizya, taqiya, abrogation, and contempt or outright wish of death to the Jew and Christian. Further” look at their “prophet,” a robber, thief, murderer, warlord, sexual addict, and pedophile who seems to convey their god’s obession with bodily fluids.
Islam and Christianity, culturally and morally, will never be compatible.
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Read what I wrote. We invaded the region, we created a crisis, but you pass by on the other side. Fine, but don’t claim Christ’s authority for so doing.
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Bush and Blair between them conned the West into invading Iraq under the false information that Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Alas this was the dreadful error which has caused the present crisis.It was a serious and irrevocable mistake and caused the misery for thousands. We are now reaping the tragic results of Bush and Blair’s foolhardy action. I blame the British PM Blair and President Bush of the US.
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Perhaps we stupidly and without forethought, lit he match of a bonfire that had already been built and stoked within the Muslim world? e.g. the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in the 1920s, the views of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during the last War, the Ayatollahs in Iran since the fall of the Shah;; all these preceded the Iraq War.
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No one denies that Islam was hostile, but we caused the current crisis, and for an American to criticise Europe for taking care of those hit by the actions of his country is just a shameful abnegation of responsibility.
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Wasn’t the entire business more as a result of wanting their oil?
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“It seems to me, we have been trying to convert the Middle East Muslim for 14 centuries. Time to “shake the dust from our feet.”
As servants of Christ it is our responsibility to evangelise each generation throughout the world. Each generation is a new world to evangelise.That is Christ commision to us. The church has never completed this task in 2000 years. We
are seeing more converts from Islam than at any other time in its history. Now is not the time to back off but to get on with the task in obedience to our Lord!
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I agree, but as servants of Christ with the commission to convert each generation, to evangelize the Middle East we also have to bear in mind that we have an added responsibility to act with justice and fair dealing.
we have a bad past of exploitation and ruthless greed. We have all too often evangelized with an ulterior motive. We want what they have, their oil, so that we can maintain our supremacy over the Middle East.
If there is a dark spirit in Islam, then Western Greed has invoked it and we’ve been hoisted with our own petard. In the average Middle Eastern Mind Christianity is associated with Western Power and corruption. The US bears a singular responsibility for this.
There is a passage in Second Isaiah that is truly humbling.
Therefore justice is far from us, And righteousness does not overtake us; We hope for light, but behold, darkness, For brightness, but we walk in gloom. We grope along the wall like blind men…For truth has stumbled in the street and uprightness cannot enter. ( Isaiah 59 : 9 & 14.)
Actually Isaiah 59: 9-15 is relevant.
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