Our ancestors had a better sense of proportion on so many things than we do. Divorced, as so many of us are, from the natural rhythms of the seasons and their changing, they saw ‘Lady Day’ as an important staging post in the cycle of the year; coming soon after the spring equinox, and nine months before the traditional date for the birth of Christ, it was, for them, the start of the new year – symbolically marking the start of the new life for all Christians. Now, no doubt there are those odd souls who find in all of this pagan echoes, but if they could stop and use their brains instead of their emotions, they would see something rather wonderful – the Christianisation of paganism. The Church took time-honoured pagan customs and showed how they related to the Light of the World.
As expected, yesterday’s post on the Feast of the Annunciation prompted our resident iconoclast, Bosco, to utter his usual blasphemy to the effect that Our Lady had no choice but to become the Mother of the Saviour of the World. Let us examine St Luke’s account:
Let us focus in on that last verse – ‘May it be done to me according to your word’. Now, perhaps Bosco’s English is not up to summarising it, so let us help him – here Our Lady is saying ‘yes’, she is giving her assent to the Good News brought to her by the Archangel. That is the plain reading, and it is noticeable that Bosco never, ever quotes it. It undermines his odd view that Our Lady never gave her consent. The pagan world was familiar with stories of mortal women being raped by the gods, but the Christian story does not begin thus, but with a young woman responding with fidelity and obedience to the news she is given; she could clearly have responded otherwise, but God had chosen her from her mother’s womb, and she received the greatest honour of any human – she became the mother of her, and our, Saviour. This is why Christians of all kinds revere her, indeed, even Luther and Calvin did so. Why then has there developed a virulent strain of misogyny within parts of Protestant Christianity?
In the main, I fear, it is to do with a peculiar form of blindness. There has always been a puritanical strain within Christianity which has had the most violent reaction to beauty; it cannot see a stained-glass window without wishing to break it; it cannot see a fresco, a wall-painting or a painting without wishing to whitewash it; it cannot see a statue without wishing to break it. It does all these things arrogantly. It claims that its adherents alone can interpret God’s commandments. The vast majority of Christians have followed the instincts of the Church from the earliest times – which is to bring the best things we can create and to consecrate them to God. Yes, we can worship him in a plain barn, but if we love him and we honour him, and he has given some of us great creative gifts, then it is right and proper to dedicate those gifts to his service. Apart from the iconoclasts, there’s not one person in a million who sees a statue in a Church and things anyone worships it; the question as to why the iconoclast does is one which lies with a psychiatrist rather than a theologian.
There is, in it, a form of misogyny, a virulent strain of something that sits within most Churches in one form or another. Christianity has grown to maturity in patriarchal societies in which women have seldom if ever been accorded the same rights as men. In Orthodoxy and Catholicism this has always been mitigated by Marian veneration. There are, to be sure, those feminist scholars who would see Mariology as a cover for misogyny, a way of excusing it by saying, in effect ‘but look, over here, we say a woman was the most important person ever, so how can we be misogynists?’ Well, to be sure, there’s something in that, but that would also be an example of how you can’t please all of the people all of the time; would they really rather that was not there, that exception, from which so many more exceptions have grown?
So, let us conclude this reflection with some verses of St Cyril of Alexandria:
Through you, the Trinity is glorified. / Through you, the Cross is venerated throughout the world./ Through you, angels and archangels rejoice. / Through you, the demons are driven away.
Through you, the fallen creature is raised to heaven. / Through you, the churches are founded in the whole world. /Through you, people are led to conversion.
Yes, Bosco turns it inside out as well as upside down. For today, Lady Day, is the beginning of women’s rights, as well as all the obvious things. For this is the day when God himself, openly sought the consent of a woman. One, as we will reflect on Easter, whose testimony was no testimony at all. Here is where women become equal (if different) from men.
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Indeed, Neo – and goodness knows what sort of confused mind produces what his does – but whatever he’s on, isn’t spiritually nourishing.
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Sadly, it’s not. And his inability to listen and learn hurts him, more badly than he knows.
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Yes, his ignorance is from that point of view, a blessing for him – if he knew how foolish he seems to most others.
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Indeed so.
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Not everyone has had the privileges we have had of being raised by parents who believed and trusted in the Lord and were thus able to pass the Faith on to us. Sources such as Jack Click and others have polluted many minds and it is to Bosco’s credit that he is trying to distinguish the wood from the trees here. He is also pushing us into studying much that we have taken for granted and for that, I thank him.
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That’s right good sister. Its time you all took a look at scripture instead of trusting men in costumes.
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She does, I do, and the 1950s have sent a message wanting your prejudices back.
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I read a little every day. Like watering a plant, little and often is the best. This group of people have supplied me with links to the daily readings and spiritually nourishing commentaries for many many years. I recommend them to all on this blog.
http://www.presentationministries.com/obob/obob.asp
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Today’s readings
http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings/032917.cfm
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He operates on the 1950s prejudice that Catholics don’t read the Bible. The 1950s have called and asked for their prejudice back 🙂
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Catholics were discouraged from reading bad translations of the Bible in the past and for good reason. Many had chunks left out of them or weren’t true translations. I was told that the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons had especially strange variations. In the late 1960’s, the NRSV Bible was produced in a Catholic edition and I was happily gifted one by a Bible Society at that time. It became my bedtime reading from then on 😊
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Catholics were discouraged from reading bad translations. Pray tell, what form did this discouragement have? Was it having the tongue ripped out and / or being burned alive?
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Depends on how important you think saving someone’s soul is.
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Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”
Mary was told she was going to conceive. What can she say? She essentially says…so be it. Shes having the baby….the angel told her that from the start.
That’s why false religions are so deadly. I can list things the CC has its devotees doing that are expressly forbidden in scripture. But each time the faithful have some wonderful reason why they disobey gods words, or more precisely, why their religion teaches men to go against scripture. The first act of justifying their anti biblical practice is to call me a few choice names. Then they go on to say that the bible doesn’t mean what it says. Well, that’s a valid argument. Its my argument that the bible is true and says what it means and means what it says. Why does your costumed holyman pick up the bible and kiss it during your services? Answer; For show. After he sets the book down he assures everyone that only the majisterium can understand it, so don’t bother dusting it off.
The time is at hand.
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So, Jesus says he founded a church on Peter and you say he didn’t 😊
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That’s correct. My church is the body of Christ, and Christ is the Rock of my salvation. Theres no doubt in anyones mind that the CC is built on a man. You get no argument out of me on that.
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Jesus renames Simon Peter and founds a church in that Peter – Peter being Greek for rock. Still, that’s just Jesus – good job he has you to explained n it to him.
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Jesus goes on, in the same chapter, to call Peter Satan. Any thoughts on that? I have some thoughts on it. The murderous history of the CC explains it.
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Goodness me, Bosco, you must be the ten millionth illiterate to have raised that. The answer is that even the church can be tempted.
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Bosco, which part of she answered yes means she could no have answered no?
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Sure friend, she could have said no. tell me, would that have changed anything? Would god go looking for another woman? It was going to be mary as fortold a thousand yrs befor. You take a hypothetical scenario and turn it into a religion.
“She could have said NO, so lets build a religion around this hypothetical scenario, oh and make her all powerful and a means for our salvation, oh, and make graven images of her so we can bow befor the, and carry them on our shoulders. All because what she MIGHT have said.
Is this how you worship god? By carrying a image of a female on your shoulders?
Now as for being an iconoclast(I take it that a iconoclast is someone who destroys images), its against the law to destroy other peoples property. Destroying graven images doesn’t stop idolaters from being idolaters. But still, hezihiah did what was right in the sight of the Lord when he tore down the images set up by the people. God doesn’t like these graven images. But what do idolaters care. Bring me some more images, I don’t have enough. That’s rite, set it up on that pedestal so I can bow down befor it.
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So, finally, you admit she had a choice?
Let us see what follows. Here is the woman who bore the Saviour of the world in her womb, who nursed him and tended him, and who was there at the Cross with him. Billions of Christians have found this praiseworthy- a modern Californium goes ‘meh’ – if you had the sense you were born with you’d hang your head in shame.
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She was told she was having the child. She was having it, like it or not. mary did her job, al be it a noteworthy job. That’s it. She wasn’t even one of Jesus folllowers. He didn’t even come out of a house when she and some of his bros and sis were outside calling him. There is no account of Jesus even visting Mary durning his ministry. the only account is at the cross. And no, she didn’t stand there smiling and waving with rainbow beams of light coming out her hands, like the CC wants you to think. Mary needed salvation like any human. Shes no exception. I don’t know Mary and she doesn’t know me. But I met Jesus and know him. Mary didn’t die for my sins.
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Make your fragile mind up, you just admitted she had a choice. No one worships Mary, and no one but you and a few other nutjobs thinks so.
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Whoever you met, you need to get help.
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Dear Bosco, Our Lady was asked to the wedding feast at Cana. Jesus and his Apostles were also there. She told Him that the wine had/was about to run out. He replied to the effect that He was not bothered whether it was or not. She (Our Lady), went to the water/wine bearers and said to them “Do whatever He (her Son) tells you”, and they did. This was the first of His signs and His Apostles believed in Him.
Being two separate persons, misunderstandings may have arisen between Our Lord and Our Lady but they were quickly sorted as is usual between people of good will.
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Everyone has a choice. but there is such a thing called…god made me do it.
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Some history for you Bosco.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
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There was, of course, iconoclasm in the very early days of the Church, and I’m sure you are aware of secular iconoclasm, AKA “damnatio memoriae”, which happened to statues and other images of emperors.
I believe, however, we can understand the process academically as well as psychologically. The rift between the Church and Jews led to a kind of “collective amnesia” (a term you will also find in academic sociology as an understanding of the secularisation process). The Church for much of its history has been poor in its knowledge of the ANE context of the Old Testament and the Second Temple context of the New Testament. This has led to warped readings of critical passages for the idolatry question. Progress has been made in the past 200 years, but this scholarship was not available to the proto-Reformers, Reformers, and Puritans.
Now I can happily enjoy Christian art without my conscience being troubled because I know that no-one is using it to carry out sympathetic magic or to commune with elohim other than YHWH. This was the concern behind the idolatry question.
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I wonder, Nicholas, if you don’t overintellectualize this. For the leaders, or some of them, I don’t doubt you’re correct. But I think many, more likely most, were simply thugs and vandals, who had an itch to destroy beautiful things. People don’t change much, and that is mostly what we see now.
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Indeed, I agree with you – it was the leaders I had in mind. People, particularly before our post-modern period, were more respectful to authority figures, so if the local squire said, “Break the statues”, then they complied. The issue also connects with the question of Church finance – should the Church spend money on these things rather than on the poor? Etc.
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Yep, all true, although I’m not entirely sure it was respect, in some of those periods, fear might be closer, but that’s a quibble. 🙂
Yeah, I suspect we’ve all been around that barn a few times, the groove have been well worn, more like a circular ditch.
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The Church, as the Mystical Body of of Christ, answers with the words of Christ your last question:
3 And when he was in Bethania, in the house of Simon the leper, and was at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of precious spikenard: and breaking the alabaster box, she poured it out upon his head.
4 Now there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said: Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5 For this ointment might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6 But Jesus said: Let her alone, why do you molest her? She hath wrought a good work upon me.
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Thank you, Nicholas, and you are correct.
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Icons and iconography
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon
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“Male and female He created them…” everything He created He pronounced to be good. Following the fall of our first parents, a curse was placed on all men and all women. Our Lady avoided this by being conceived without original sin. The Aye of Our Lady reversed Eve’s decision.
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angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.31n Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
Silly ninnys….we can all read English here, I think. Where is good sister Mary asked her permission? Im called names and other things, by papist and other Sadducees, but none of them has shown where Mary was asked if she would agree to it.
The angel said…..” behold, you WILL conceive”. But your religion has made fables to include the female goddess many people of the time worshiped. Now you idolatrous humans are left to justify it. Nay, but not only do you bend over backwards to justify it, you love a queen of heaven. You simply adore it. You put golden crowns on the head of her graven images and adorn it with jewels and fine clothes and carry it on your shoulders because it cant walk and cant talk, neither can it hear, even though it has ears.
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You never quote her response – which is to agree – why did she agree if she wasn’t being asked?
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She said , “be it done to me”. So what? Wasn’t she already told she was going to have a child? But you ignore that. Its not that big of a deal. It only becomes big when that is used to flesh out a queen of heaven, which is something god already says he hates. Its not killing me. I thought id help you good folks out by pointing out the obvious flaws in your religion. That way you might feel the need to go to the source, since religion has failed you. Time to give in and ask Jesus to show you whats true and not true. It bothers me that my friends might die without Jesus.
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Why did she agree if she wasn’t being asked? I don’t see a question in scripture, so im not going to believe Mary had a choice. That would ruin the whole Christmas story. Did Jonas have a choice? Did Baalim have a choice? Sure they did, but they went anyway, like it or not. Now you sit there and tell me Mary could have refused and the angel would have gone away empty handed. if your religion didn’t force this on you, you wouldn’t be having this conversation. Just like you are forced to deny the second commandment. if your church forbade images, you would also distain images.
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You wrote a few comments ago that she did have a choice. That she said yes means she could have said no. You may think God a rapist, but that shows how far from his son you are.
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That’s semantics. One could safely say Mary said yes, because she did have the child. Now what about it? OK, she said yes, so what now? Shes all powerful and has a throne in heaven?
I said yes to the Lord. I want my throne in heaven and I want to be all powerful and I want you to make graven images of me, Bosco the Immaculate and bow befor them. I want my throne in heaven and I want it NOW.
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She is in Rev 12:1 – no doubt you have a weirdo explanation.
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And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The bible explains the bible. I forget which, Jacob or Joseph had a vision of the moon as Abraham and the 12 stars as Rachael. Wait. It might Be Jacob as Moon and Rachael as the 12 stars. The 12 stars are the 12 tribes. Now, this woman that you idolaters call Mary, fled into the wilderness. The catholic Mary does battle with Satan, ……she doesn’t flee from Satan. What is your all powerful queen of heaven, who sits on a throne in heaven, doing fleeing into the wilderness. And while im at it, after Jesus says changes Simon to Peter, he calls Peter Satan. So your church is built on Satan. Recently, you said that I don’t believe scripture. Do you?
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The woman is the church, the bride of Christ, who is hidden during the tribulation.
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Says who? Says no one before the sixteenth century
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One of the holy men of the eastern church prior to the split between Constinople and Rome sorted out this business of images long ago. I don’t know his name but perhaps another of the contributors here knows. Perhaps it was Anastatius. It is someone who is revered in both churches to this day.
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Someone explained why images are wonderful? Someone had to, seeing as how catholic buildings are chock full of them and even cushy kneepads are provided for the comfort of the idolaters who bow befor them.
Me and my house, we worship the Lord, an invisible God.
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It is to do with God and his gifts and our returning them. If God gives us a gift for creating beautiful things, why can’t we create them in his name and to his glory and put them in churches built to worship him?
Or does the god you believe in share your lack of artistic appreciation. You seem to be worshipping a god you created by looking into the mirror.
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You and your house have the artistic taste of a pillow.
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Heres a case in point;
“a curse was placed on all men and all women. Our Lady avoided this by being conceived without original sin”
Ill reiterate my promise and add another proviso…..If anyone can show chp and vrs where the angel asked for Marys permission, I will apoplogise and go away, and ill add this…if anyone can show, chp and vrs where Mary was born without sin, ill also go away. If you cant provide a shred of evidence, I want you to apologise tp me, but you don’t have to go away. Im a magnanimous kinda guy. (;-D
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If she was not being asked for her permission, why did she say she agreed? Jesus was like us in all things except sin – as his human nature came from his mother, she must have been without sin too. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
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Chapter and verse my good friend, chapter and verse, then ill be gone.
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You’ve had it – she said yes, so she had a choice.
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My mistake. I was referring to the sinless birth of Mary. I see no one wants to tackle that using scripture.
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We have said many times that the Church which knows what Scripture is knows how to read it. If Christ was without sin and was wholly human, his mother must have been without sin. Only an idiot could not see the logic.
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I shall dig out the background to the declaration of 1854 and put it up here for you bruv shortly.
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Well true, im an idiot. But I just don’t see where this one time extraordinary event is mentioned. I see that all men, uh, that includes all men, have sinned and come short the glory. I see that no man is good, no not one. that’s what I see. I noticed you didn’t provide a verse. because there is none. Everything you’ve said today was innuendo and conjecture. Then you proceed as if its gospel truth. I do blame you. You should know better. Yeah, your church knows how to read things INTO the bible. Such important events like a sinless human should be mentioned, somewhere. And if the Roman State run religion is god one true religion which is necessary for the salvation of human kind, how come Jesus 7 churches, none of which are in Rome. He has 7 spirits and seven churches. he makes that clear in Rev. Did he forget his one true church? he did mention the church at Rome, but it wasn’t as his church. He does mention a woman( a woman is a religion) drunk with the blood of all the bible believers it killed, riding on a beast(a beast is a nation state).
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which bit of the logic did you not get? Jesus is without sin, he is human so his mother is without sin.
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Then Marys mother had to without sin, and her mother had to be without sin, and her mother had to be without sin ,a her mother had to be without sin and her mother had to be without sin ad infinitum. Its only logical.
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No, that’s so stupid I can’t believe even you think that. Do you really have so little faith that you don’t think God could cleanse Mary of original sin before she received the sinless one in her womb? This god you claim to believe in, apart from making you feel warm and fuzzy, what else does he actually do if you think so little of him?
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She agreed – she knew she was being asked. Bye bye Bosco .
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Scripture doesn’t say she knew she was being asked. I didn’t know that one of your many talents was mind reader.
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It says she said ‘yes’ – only a man of a certain sort could see this as meaning she had no choice.
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Ok. In your opinion, what would have happened if good sister Mary said “No”. You must have an alternate scenario. Thanks in advance
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No idea. The point was that she had a choice and said yes. You have a choice not https://widgets.wp.com/notifications/2864155549#to be an idiot but you say no.
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My computer wont let me go to the link you posted.
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As a matter of fact, mary was puzzled by all this. This is written in scripture. yet your folk lore has her as being on top of it all…after all, she the all powerdful all knowing all seeing queen of heaven. But scripture say she was baffled by it all. You cathols have never let scripture get in the way of a good fable.
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Dear Bosco, the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady was something which was discussed down the ages and teased out between learned men such as Thomas Acquinas, Duns Scotus and others. It was finally settled in 1854 when the Pope at that time declared it to be worthy of belief. Not everything is written in the bible. God gave us our brains for a reason.
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Here is a little of how the doctrine was developed
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
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You teach tradition of men and deny the Word of god.
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No, we pass on the traditions which Paul passed on – it’s in the Bible you buffoon – show me where it says that every man and his dog can interpret Scripture outside the teaching of the Church?
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Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Yet the catholic church say it is the only entity to have to true meaning of scripture. Peter say scripture is not private. The CC says its private to them. But you can have a copy of this private revelation,…..if the price is right.
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You don’t do English very well. You offer private interpretation, the Church founded by Christ does not. As usual, the father of lies has you fooled.
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Here is what the link that good sister Annie put up says about Mariology;
No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
They were forced to admit its not in the scriptures. It is nowhere to be found, except in cunningly devised fables
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Where does Paul say written tradition is the only tradition? Christ’s Church has both oral and written tradition – you have your own ignorant ramblings on a book. Which version is more like the early church? Clue, the early church did not rely on individual interpretations of a book. Epic fail, Bosco.
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Eight things you need to know about the Immaculate Conception
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-immaculate-conception#.WN1daB7hTqA
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Here is what good sister Annies site says;
And hence they [the Church Fathers] affirmed that the Blessed Virgin was, through grace, entirely free from every stain of sin, and from all corruption of body, soul and mind
here is what scripture says;
8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Personally, now that you know the difference in CC dogma and the Word of God, you have no excuses. It doesn’t end there. We all know the other differences, or a lot of the big ones, because I used to bring them up a lot.
The time is at hand.
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We’ve established that unlike the Apostles, you have no oral tradition- you have a man made false gospel.
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Good brother Chalcedon says I have a man made gospel. Lets see who his religion listens to;….
This celebrated comparison between Eve, while yet immaculate and incorrupt — that is to say, not subject to original sin — and the Blessed Virgin is developed by:
•Justin (Dialogue with Trypho 100),
•Irenaeus (Against Heresies III.22.4),
•Tertullian (On the Flesh of Christ 17),
•Julius Firmicus Maternus (De errore profan. relig xxvi),
•Cyril of Jerusalem (Catecheses 12.29),
•Epiphanius (Hæres., lxxviii, 18),
•Theodotus of Ancyra (Or. in S. Deip n. 11), and
•Sedulius (Carmen paschale, II, 28).
I don’t have a bunch of men I believe in, who tell me the bible isn’t all I need. The list of man made theology is so big in the CC that they need canon lawyers to sift thru them.
Jesus sais his burden is light. Good brother Chalcedon, sometime I think is a bot, because it says things like the above. Accuse me of man made gospel. Its gotta be a bot. Good brother Chalcedon isn’t crazy enough to open that can of worms.
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Again, you prove my point. The Church passes on the oral traditions it inherited – you can’t because you have none. All you can do is make the false claim that the written tradition is all you need,
.
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On good sister Annies site I found this;
WARRIOR’S ROSARY – LARGE HEMATITE
This unique and very special rosary was designed by Thomas K. Sullivan, author of “Called to Knighthood”, and created by premier Italian rosary maker ©Ghirelli.
Comes gift boxed with an explanatory pamphlet.
Price: $95.00
Item #: WR8H
I see your church is still selling salvation. It EWTN religious item store. They have a set of beads for $1000 American. that outta get you into heaven.
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How does even your stupidity make a connection between buying Rosary beads and selling salvation? Did someone even dumber than you tell you we believe salvation comes from beads? A new low in the stupid stakes, Bosco. Can you chew gum and walk at the same time!
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Maybe you don’t believe beads have magical powers, but many see the beads as actually doing something. Like I said, you don’t believe statues come alive, but many in easten Europe and tons in south America actually do worship the statue by thinking the statue is really who it represents. They think its alive. What bothers me is that the priests don’t discourage that…..they stand by and encourage it. Where do you think they will wake up when they die?
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No one believes they bring salvation, as you said. Another lie.
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When the supernatural (possibly) intermingles with the natural http://spiritdaily.org/blog/uncategorized/jesus-on-stump-in-cemetery
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Like a motor, beads are purely ornamental until they are put to use. Statues of the saints and other works of art are useful in drawing our attention to the fact that these are human beings, like us, who once walked among us. All religious articles are blessed before use, some such as the St Benedict Medal are even exorcised first.
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You may recall that in the Acts of the Apostles, items belonging to them had healing power. This also happened in the OT.
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“When he unwrapped it he asked, ‘What do you see?’
“Immediately I responded, it’s Mary. ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘you see it too.’ He said he wanted to leave it with me as part of the collection. I asked if he carved the image; I needed background on it.
http://spiritdaily.org/blog/uncategorized/jesus-on-stump-in-cemetery
Yes, its Mary. Time to set it up on a pedestal and bow down befor it. After all, that’s what we cathols do.
Don’t mean to change the subject, but im beginning to think good sister Annie is in fact Eccles.
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Bosco, you really do post the silliest stuff. One minute you claim you are not saying we worship Mary, then the next you claim we are. The fact is you haven’t a clue, and with a reading age of 9, no way of making a reasoned argument. If, as you claim, you went to college, you are a very poor example of the American education system. If a 12 year old here spelt and argued as you did, they’d be sent for remedial schooling; is it too late for you to get educated?
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Well, you know, the main thing is Christ and him crucified. I believe things that aren’t in the bible, like a car mechanic manual. I believe the scriptures to be the inerrant Word of God. It says all men have sinned. The CC says….well there was this little exception granted to a female. Im going with the red letter words of Jesus who says ALL men have sinned. I mean, you know, the religious have their traditions. And all the while Jesus is at your door knocking. I don’t say that anymore, if you’ve noticed. I just remind folks that the mouth of hell has enlarged itself for the next big influx of souls who refused to know Christ personally. That’s because the time is at hand. Ive switched from preaching heaven to preaching about hell. Seeing as how most people are going to wind up there. Think about it. There are readers in here, people who we all have gotten to know and love, who are going to wake up in hell. That’s the simple truth. I know you think im going to be there first and formost.
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Waffling when you are exposed is still waffle. You do not follow the Scriptural tradition – kindly tell me where on Apostle writes about red letter words of Jesus? You follow a false man made teaching.
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The NT is a collection of writings, most likely they never thought they would wind up in their scriptures. My God is strong, and put them together for me. he uses men like we use a knife and fork. he used men to put together the whole bible. We already had the OT.
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May it be done to me according to your word.”
Lets look at this. May it be done to me; That’s like the old…So it is written, so shall it be done” Shes not saying…OK ill allow you to give me the child. Too late for that.
Now she says…according to your word; the angels word was what? Mary, will you have a child for the Lord…pretty please please please? No….the angels word was……Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
Do you see a question in that? don’t. Help me out here. Wheres the question?
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Bosco mansplains the Annunciation & worships Rapist God.
Hilarious.
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Sure looks like it 😒
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Heres what it looks like;
You and your religion base your salvation on “what ifs”. What if Mary said no. This now becomes your proof positive. Mary said “be it unto me” and you say that a question was implied, with no scripture to back it up.
My stand is all based on the written word. No what ifs or and implied stuff.
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How on earth even your illogical brain got to that is a mystery. We simple do what the angel said and call her name blessed from generation to generation. That you have to make up lies is sad.
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She is blessed. So are a lot of people. from generation to generation, we bring out Christmas decors, and Mary figures prominent. I love the Christmas story. Blessed is he who believes and has not seen. I believe and have not seen. Im blessed. I want my throne in heaven and I want it NOW.
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Which verse says others are to be called blessed forever.
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Only cathols believe in temporary blessings. You have to go to mass every week or you are in mortal sin.
My blessing doesn’t need renewal. Im blessed for ever.
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I’m happy you believe that.
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Yes, Mary consented. Of course she did; so did her son in Gethsemane. That is the whole point; she spoke her fiat, he echoed it. Christ is every bit his mother’s son. It is the human Mary who is afraid but nonetheless consents to God’s will, and it is the human Christ who feels the most appalling fear but finds a way to follow her example. He echoes her consent.
I have to disagree with the suggestion that Marian devotion mitigates misogeny; it doesn’t; quite the opposite. It sets an unrealistic expectation that women are either as perfect as Our Lady or else as responsible as Eve for all the failings of mankind.
We still have a very long way to go.
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Ill go with Mary consenting or agreeing, something to that effect. If one wants to put it that way. the flip side of that coin is….she was already told she was having this child. What was she going to do? tell the angel to hold off while she gives it some thought?
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Do you understand the nature of a question? It means you can say no. Unless you take God to be a rapist.
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Jonas said “No way Jose”. What happened to him? Want to call god a kidnapper?
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Stick to the topic – you’ve already changed your mind twice – are you really committed to the blasphemy that God gave Mary no choice. Yes or no will do – weasel your way out if that.
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Not too hot on biology are you, Bosco? Oh dear.
Here we are: human gestation for dummies. When a human egg is fertilised it is already approximately 2 weeks old. The date of the pregnancy is from the development of the egg, not from the point of conception. Every time a woman becomes pregnant the age of the foetus will predate the act of conception itself.
This may be confusing fot the man: he will be told the foetus is at 7 weeks ‘gestation while perhaps knowng for a fact he wasn’t around 7 weeks ago. Never fear: the act was only 5 weeks ago. Perfectly normal.
Ergo, when Mary expressed her fiat and was miraculously with child by the holy spirit, the developing foetus was anything up to 2 weeks old already. Perfectly standard human biology, true for every woman. Her fiat completes the consent, without which the pregnancy would not continue. Given that consent the Holy Spirit continues the miracle.
Had she not consented then nature would have taken its course.
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Wow, you must be smart to know all that.
So the holy ghost would have taken back the baby if Mary said no? Oh yes, I remember ,in the book of Isaiah, its says, that god will ask around to see who wants his child. I stand corrected.
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The similaries/disimilarities between Adam and Christ and Eve and Mary are discussed within this piece.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
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Mary had no choice. my answer is no.
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So, you worship a God who is a rapist – figures somehow.
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Although the Bible does not expressly state it, it certainly indicates that Mary was in prayer when the angel approached her and said, “Hail favored one, the Lord is with you.” These words of the angel indicate that Mary was already in prayer, open and receptive to the Word, which is in itself a “Yes” to God.
As a contrast, think of Paul (Saul) who was knocked down and made blind on his way to Damascus; he was not in a state of receptive prayer when the Lord approached him, he was on a mission of his own choosing (not the Lord’s choosing). A case could be made that God played rough with him, hit him over the head with the proverbial 2×4, in order to convert him. Mary, on the other hand, is approached by God’s messenger in the most loving and gentle terms because of her loving submission in prayer to her Lord. The Bible doesn’t explain all of this, we are able to surmise it through prayerful and careful reading.
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Good for you good sister Celia, your the first one to admit that none of this folk lore is mentioned in the bible, and that the add ons are surmised, or believed to be what happened. The moral of the story is….don’t puff up humans to be more than they are….humans, fallable and sinful. it becomes idolatry when you make graven images of your biblical heroes and then bow befor them to have them direct your prayers. But that’s the least of the unsaved probs. there this thing called….waking up in hell because Jesus never knew you.
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Bosco, the New Testament is not even mentioned in the Bible, so where do you get the idea that all the facts are in the Bible? Logic isn’t your strong point is it?
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New test is good for all learning. I think everything is in there, the plan of salvation.
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You are deliberately confusing things. No one says that the Bible does not contain all that is necessary for salvation, but no one says it contains all the details of the life of Jesus and his mother.
Jesus founded a Church. It told us what the Bible was and it is guided by the Spirit to interpret that book.
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My own personal rule on this one is never to be more disrespectful of the Lord’s mother than I would be of my minister’s, or indeed yours, Mr Great.
I can’t imagine the Lord taking kindly to the language you have used here and elsewhere of his own mother. Best follow Thumper’s dad’s advice on this one; if you can’t say something nice then best say nothing at all.
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That was my grandmas advice also. I will have to have you cut and paste, or just refresh my memory as to the bad things I said about good sister Mary. Personally, I have not a shred of ill feelings toward Mary. Im sorry you feel I have besmirched her. My apologies if I did.
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No point apologising to me; you have not insulted my mother. If you had my fury would be beyond that of a thousand ravenous tigers. And I am not the creator of all that is.
Kindly address your apology to the appropriate person, or her Son. But you had better make sure you mean it; he will know.
Or you could take your chances in continuing to disrespect the Lord’s mother. Your choice.
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Ok, ill try.
Oh Mary, great cooredeemer and one who does battle with Satan, I take back what ever it was I said bad about you. can you find it in your Immaculate Heart to forgive me? And Mary, my car needs to be registered and I don’t have enough money. Could you send me about $400 American my way? Thank you mary.
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I am sure Jesus will take up with you your insulting his mother; what a fool you are Bosco. Do you imagine the Lord holds his mother in the same low regard you do?
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I got nothing against Mary, mother of Jesus. You guys keep saying I do because I believe the bible, not the pope.
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You don’t believe the Bible at all on this. You keep claiming she was given no choice when the Bible shows clearly she accepted God’s will. We agree with the angel and call her blessed. You never did get back to me with the verses telling us which other human was told that all generations would call them blessed – no doubt and oversight and not you weaselling away again.
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All generations call her blessed for sure. She is front and center of the greatest story ever told.
24 “Most blessed among women is Jael, The wife of Heber the Kenite;
We haven’t stopped calling Jael blessed, have we?
All of this addo just because I believe Jesus is the only mediator for men? You are free to give your devotion to a queen of heaven. Just hope she will save you at the hr of your death. You better pray Bosco is wrong and the CC is right.
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Do you have trouble reading. Calling a woman blessed and an angel saying that all generations will call the mother of the Saviour Blessed are not the same thing. You can’t help yourself, can you, the devil will not let you love the mother of your Saviour – get yourself exorcised.
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I don’t know Mary. I don’t love someone I don’t know and never met. Sorry bout that.
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PS, the bible calls Jael MOST blessed amongst women. Care to somehow refute the scriptures? Feel free to “say it aint so Joe, say it aint so”
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It does not say ‘all generations will call you blessed’ – which bit of that is hard for you to grasp?
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All generations do call Mary blessed. Scripture is true. Keep that in mind while you are bowing face first to the ground befor a graven image while you repeat prayer after you call a costumed man Father.
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So stop sniping at her then and stop claiming God raped her.
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Even if we knew nothing about the Mother of Jesus, can our Love for Jesus be so lukewarm as to have no feeling for what occurred when that Mother gave birth to the Saviour?
If we believe in the divine uniqueness of Christ, then we must also focus our inner spiritual vision on the woman who gave Him his human life. “Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with you” the Angel Gabriel greeted her.
Put quite simply, our veneration of the Mother of God, all our love for her, all our knowledge of her, is a gift that comes solely through personal experience as the fruit of love.
Mary said Yes to God, and that resulted in the birth of the Word. “And behold you shall conceive in your womb, and bear a son and shall call his name Jesus.” St Luke in his Gospel paints a wonderful image of the Mother of God as revealed in Jesus.
This image of the Mother of God is first of all the image of a woman who says Yes to his choice of her to be the instrument through which initially the duvine will is to take place in our fallen world.
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Last nite I re watched a testimony of an ex catholic. He said he was born catholic and was gonna die catholic. members of his family were becoming saved but he thought that it was nice but they shouldn’t bother other people about it. His father, also a devout catholic started talking about the bible to him one day, which he never did in his life befor. Then his cousins at a dinner party talked to him and he didn’t really understand what they were saying. Reminded me of the people in here. He also said that if anyone attacked his religion that he was ready to fight. Reminds me of the people in here. They had him say the sinners prayer and they cried and hugged him. he didn’t know why they acted like that. He got home at 11 and at 12 decided to just crack open his bible that sat out for display that he never opend once. As a devout cathol he was never encouraged to open a bible.He was born again sometime between 11 and 12 that night. He quickly realized that Catholicism was in direct odds with the god of the bible.
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Goodness me, hold the news front pages, badly catechised ex-Catholic explains he never understood Catholicism and has joined idiots like you who also don’t understand the Church Christ founded; I’m shocked, I tells, you, shocked.
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No, he was a devout catholic. he didn’t understand the words of his saved cousins. He did everything his priests told him. he was a good boy.
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That is your weird definition of a ‘good Catholic’ – you are like a Trump supporter, you see everything backwards through your prejudices.
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Uh, I am sorta a Trump supporter, but hes packing our govt with money laundering thieves who work hand in hand with the soviet thieves. Im afraid our govts have taken off the happy face masks and are just openly pillaging the people. They know we cant do anything about it.
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There is another guy who now heads a ministry. He calls himself an expert on Catholicism. Smart guy, educated, catholic to the core, did all kinds of catholic events , was an alter boy for yrs. He went to some conference for faith, not knowing exactly what it was. But it was evangelical. Somehow it made him want to open a bible…..something he had never done once in his 37 yrs as a catholic. He got born again and started a ministry to catholics. Catholics were trading religion for a relation with Jesus. he now is worldwide. I can get his name for you if yould like.
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Goodness me, Bosco, shock horror, some people don’t stay with their first church. Remind me, what were you before you became a professional bore?
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I was a rock and roll guitarist.
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Bosco, having listened to the whole video, I see you are not the only clown holding odd views. Honestly, if he and you knew anything about the Church you’d be shocked at how ignorant you look and sound t those of us who do. If he’s converting people, they have only two working-brain cells.
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Very sorry you feel that way. The man is introducing Jesus to people and they turn to a relationship with Him. Im sorry that you think this is rubbish.
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No, he’s peddling a false Gospel based on his own pride and luring souls to hell; Lord have mercy.
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Luring souls to hell. That’s an interesting observation. I hope its not true.
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As he, and you, are preaching a false Gospel, it follows.
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False gospel. I preach the gospel as written. I firmly believe the Word of God says what it means and means what it says.
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No, you don’t. You preach your own personal interpretation of what you read, and you do so with no context, not knowledge of the language it was written in, and no knowledge of how other Christians down the ages have read it.
You don’t believe what it says. You don’t believe Jesus founded a Church on Peter, though it says so; you don’t believe that Church still exists, though Jesus said it would. You believe all sorts of weird stuff from people as ignorant as yourself.
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How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
You, good brother Chalcedon, said I had no grasp of the English language. Let us follow the subject of this biblical discussion. it begins with the Master telling us to beware of the doctrines of religions. The the subject comes up as to who do men say Jesus is. Peter say that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus says that on this Rock he will build His church. The subject is that Jesus is the Christ. The Jesus charges them not to tell people He is the Christ. The conversation does not center on Peter being the head of the Church. Its not mentioned here or anywhere. Wouldn’t that be something that was expounded on somewhere? Its not. But make no mistake, the CC is founded on men. You get no argument from me.
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Thank you for demonstrating that whilst you can read, you have no understanding.
Where does Jesus say what you claim: ‘the Master telling us to beware of the doctrines of religions’? Nowhere, that is your biased interpretation. He tells us, quite specifically, to betware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Do you even begin to know what ‘leaven’ is and why he specifies those two sets of Jews/ No, of course, you don’t, someone told you Jesus was against ‘religions’ and you put it in your private, personal reading of what Jesus said. So, no, you don’t believe what Jesus said, you believe what some man told you he meant.
The ‘leaven’ are the things added to the faith by men. Remember, Jesus did not come to abolish the law, and our righteouness must exceed that of the Pharisees; but we must not do what those teachers did, which was to add to the burdens on men. Not a word about ‘religions’ and not following them, not one single word.
Jesus turns the name of Simon into Rock and then says on that Rock he founds his church. These are the words of Jesus, and if you read Greek or Aramaic you’d get the play on words, but as you don’t, and as some man told you it didn’t mean Peter, you deny the words of Jesus and replace them with your own.
Jesus’ words in the first sentence are aimed at you. You understand not a word he says, but your head is full of nonsense put there by Satan to blind you – and how Satan is laughing at you. Get saved, Bosco, join the Church Jesus founded.
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Where does Jesus say what you claim: ‘the Master telling us to beware of the doctrines of religions’? Nowhere, that is your biased interpretation.
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Those were to two religions of the time in Israel.
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No, they weren’t two religions – which ignorants told you that? Your ignorance makes you easy meat for Satan.
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, someone told you Jesus was against ‘religions’ and you put it in your private, personal reading of what Jesus said.
Jesus always said…….”follow Me”
he never said to join the saducees. he himself wasn’t a member of a religious sect. In fact, he called them vipers. I wouldn’t call that a personal reading. He called them “vipers” and its there for all to see. its not private to me only.
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He said our righteousness should exceed that of the Pharisees – is that a condemnation?
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The ‘leaven’ are the things added to the faith by men.
Like Mariology?
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No, Mariology comes from the Church founded by Jesus. You are blind and deaf – easy meat for Satan. You cannot say no one warned you.
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No, they weren’t two religions. Saducees believed one thing and the pharicees believed another. But they were both buddy buddy, and Jesus called them both vipers.
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So, your first statement was wrong. So how can they be proof Jesus disapproves of all religions? At least try thinking. God gave you a brain, try using it, it must be ‘as new’
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But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Aye, say, do you happen to know of any religion that teaches commandments of men as if they were god breathed? You know, as if they were gospel?
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You are changing the subject. You are admitting you were wrong. The only people adding to the gospel are those not passing on the oral tradition passed on to Paul and by Paul – that would be you and the other know-nothings.
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, you deny the words of Jesus and replace them with your own.
Aye, say, good brother, don’t you call Joge Bergoglio your Holy Father? I mean, you know, Jesus said not to do that. Looks like we have disobedience to Jesus in common. Put er there brother. Nice to see you.
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So, let’s get this straight – you do not call your male parent father? Really? 😳😭
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Im tired of scrolling down. Ill reply at bottom of page
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Bosco – wherever you reply you’re going into that lake of fire – repent and join the Church founded by Jesus.
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Managed to get to it.
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Mike Gendry, or something like that. Heres the link.
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And precisely why would I want to watch it? You are the worst possible advocate for your cause – neither your words nor what passes for an argument from you would convince a brain-dead crab.
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Why don’t you take a quick look at it. What have you got to lose? I might be a bad witness, but this guy is more sensible than me.
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So, who to believe, Jesus Christ or you and Mike Gendry – oooh, hard one, but I’m sticking with Jesus and his church.
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I click on your links. May I ask you to at least give it a few minutes? Im asking you please.
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3 minutes in confirms he was a bad Catholic – had never read the Bible – the Church encourages us to study the Bible – the idea that he is trusting his own interpretation of the Bible over that of Christ’s Church is, as it is with you, a display of great spiritual arrogance.
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It’s the usual stuff – what’s special about it?
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Honestly Bosco, pitifully poor rubbish – the guy misrepresents the Church and the Pope – if this is the sort of tosh that convinces you, you need to get that third brain cell working.
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Im sorry that you feel its rubbish. He is responsible, by using the Word of God , to bringing people and catholics to a relationship with Christ.
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He is substituting his own personal views of what the book of the Church says. Well, he will perish at the last unless God has mercy. He will say ‘Lord, Lord’, and God will not know him – or you.
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Bosco, this is not a link and it doesn’t work.
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This video didn’t convince me of anything. I already knew this since forever it seems. Im glad you watched it. Even if you didn’t agree with it.
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TBH Bosco, it was thin, sad stuff, which would convince only those already convinced.
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The oral tradition, as I understand it , it meekness and charity and longsuffering. I don’t know of anymore oral traditions. I seriously doubt if Mariology and a priestcraft wearing Babylonian fish hats were part of this tradition. If that’s where you were trying to take this. We don’t rely on anything but written scripture , now that we have the new and old testaments.
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Read what Paul says – where does he say what you say – nowhere – you are making it up as you go along. You are lost and bound for hell, Bosco. I have done my best, but Satan has claimed you – when you cry ‘Lord, Lord, but I am saved’ Satan will be laughing.
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Good brother paul doesn’t say what this tradition is, but the saved are in direct line from the apostles. There is a tradition of caring for each other. Since Paul doesn’t say what this tradition is, how do YOU know what it is? How does anyone claim to know what it is?
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No, the ‘saved’ are not – you made that up – where does Paul say it. No, Paul is clear, tradition was passed on orally and in writing in Christ’s church. The things you say were added are part of that tradition. But how would a fool of satan know that?
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Hmmmm. Interesting. I wonder why it took till 1850 to come up with Mary floating to heaven. Limbo. That was a money maker that soured in the bellies of the faithful. Was that tradition from Paul? If im not mistaken, the universal church led by the holy spirit abandoned that one. Oh, one more thing, I believe it was Paul, I think, that called forbidding to marry a doctrine of demons. What happened there? Even who you call the first pope was married….Peter. Gosh golly, every single clergy all the way down to the womans auxillary of the CC are forbidden to marry. maybe the wires got crossed.
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Poor old Bosco – every fool opinion despite the fact everyone except you and the tin foil hatters know it’s nonsense. The teaching had been around from the beginning, the Church declared it a dogma in 1850, not that it was new. Now, either you did not know that, in which case you are dumber than a dog, or you couldn’t be bothered finding out, in which case you’re lazy.
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Youre rite about me not knowing catholic theology. Ive gotten a faceful of it here and in Catholic Answers. The only interest I have in it is to be able to compare CC teaching with scripture.
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But again, show me where the Apostles say there was only written tradition – you can’t, and therefore your reliance on only one source in unBiblical. Keep ’em coming Bosco.
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I wasn’t led to be part of the catholic faith. That’s why I don’t subscribe to it. It has most of the plan of salvation in its teaching. Where I disagree is in its Mariology and use of graven images and men wearing costume who have special powers who control god with their incantations. Little things like that. Anyway, im not a member of any religion for the same reasons.
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Is there an ancient prejudice you don’t believe. You say you are inspired by the spirit – well, there are many in this world, but the fruit of yours is rott n.
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– repent and join the Church founded by Jesus.
At least you are loyal to your religion. You would make a wonderful soldier for Christ. Way better than me.
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I am defending the church founded by Jesus – the one true church Jesus said would always endure. You have itchy ears and follow another gospel.
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Id like to know what your sons have to say when you tell them they are dead wrong. Poor good brother Chalcedon, hes surrounded by heretics, even in his own house.
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My sons make their own minds up – it’s called thinking and reading – you might try it sometime.
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I don’t follow a gospel. I didn’t want to be saved. Well, of course I wanted to go to heaven. But I didn’t want to be doing this. I wanted black light posters and incense and good strong weed and big fat girls and to be on stage playing hard rock. I was hijacked by the holy ghost. Anything I believe was revealed to me by the Spirit of the Almighty God.
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You preach another gospel. But yes, you are right, Christ and his Church preach the Gospel and you don’t. Everything revealed to you was revealed by Satan posing as the Holy Spirit – you are lost and hell bound Bosco – and you will never be able to say no one tried to warn you.
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And a merry Christmas to you too
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Warriors Babylonian prayer beads, only $1000 dollars, get em while theyre hot.
I guess that what good brother David Moniker meant when he said that he has a rosary in one hand and a Kalishnikov in the other, or something like that.
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Do you ever think before putting finger to keyboard?
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Sale of religious items. Amogst ALl the other anti biblical pratices of the Cc is one that I don’t harp on much, because im too busy being under fire for what little I do say. Your religion is all about selling religious items, and get out of purgatory tickets. I seem to remember that Jesus fashioned a whip and whipped out the money changers and the dove sellers and religious item sellers out of his temple. Den of thieves he called it. Selling heaven. Im sure you’ve got some wonderful explanation as to why selling $1000 rosaries is a tradition handed down from Jesus thru the ages. Just like Father whats his name, on Immaculate Heart Radio said…God commands us to make graven images. Forgot his name, but you all know him and talk about him all the time. God must command the Cc to sell religious items also.
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Patrick Madrid. Just rememberd his name. he said, and I quote….” god commands us to make images” unquote. What else can he say? Theres nothing but images all thru the CC and at any time of the day one can find devotees kneeling and bowing befor them. Apologist are forced to toss scripture to the wind and just toss out a “hail Mary” if you will. Good brother Gobbels used to say….if the lie is big enough, its more believable than a little lie. if cathols admitted the use of images is devilish, they are condemning all their passed on catholic loved ones to hell. They are plain and simply forced to say images good and wonderful and commanded for us by god. A little help from the CC was needed to back it up, so the catholic bible took the second commandment out. As the video I put up show, catholics are hearing the saving power of Christ one time sacrifice and a faith salvation instead of a works salvation and they are coming to a relation with jesus instead of a religion. it really takes the burden off ones back to know that it is finished. No more walking around with a canon lawyer riding on your back.
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Bosco, you do satan’s work. I am sorry for you – but when you are in hell, remember I tried to help you.
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Ill do that good brother.
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Your own practice is entirely unbiblical – such a joke.
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