Idealism in philosophy has a quite specific meaning, distinct from the popular usage, which seems to mean something like “optimism” or “being principled”, or “tending towards a utopian view”. Philosophical idealism comes in a variety of flavours. Epistemological idealism is a kind of scepticism or suspension of belief: it is the view that we cannot know mind-independent objects exist, so we must assume objects are mind-dependent until proven otherwise. Ontological idealism is the belief that only mind(s) and mind-dependent objects exist. Semantic idealism is the view that we cannot talk meaningfully of mind-independent objects: our thought and the linguistic expression of our thought are confined within mind-dependency.
Realists in the context of perception are those who hold that mind-independent objects exist and that perception puts us in contact with those objects, either directly or indirectly (i.e. through inference from the data provided in sensory experience). Berkeley as an idealist led an attack against these positions, and Kant developed his own form of idealism, known as transcendental idealism. The debate is very old and goes back to Plato, if not earlier. Plato’s “allegory of the cave” found in his magnum opus, The Republic, is one of the earliest expositions of the view that our reality is in some sense a shadow of another one, the “world of the forms”. Although he later abandoned this view – or so it would appear from his last dialogue – his thesis mutated and spread in the subsequent history of philosophy.
- We have concepts of “universals”, e.g. RED.
- These are properties that multiple objects can have, e.g. a red bus, a red apple, a red ribbon.
- They are also concepts of perfections or standards.
- However, we only ever experience imperfect versions of these universals, e.g. we may find a beautiful woman, but we do not find BEAUTY itself.
- Therefore, experience cannot furnish us with knowledge of universals.
- Therefore, knowledge of universals must be innate; we apply this knowledge in experience to objects in order to make sense of them.
- In order for objects to “partake” of universals, they must have a kind of existence.
- Therefore, there is a “world” where these perfections exist.
- Therefore, there is a more perfect world than the one in which our current sensory experience takes place.
- Since this world is linked to that one, this one must in sense be a “shadow” of it since it is “more perfect”.
Empiricists challenged Plato’s ideas by arguing that we have the means of deriving universals from experience. For example, the concept EQUALITY can be derived by noticing the inequality of, say, two sticks. The concept INEQUALITY is thus derived by abstraction and then converted into EQUALITY through negation. As to the “world” of universals and their “existence”, this is a misunderstanding of the mind, where “relations of ideas”, as Hume called them, are formed, observed, and demonstrated. The comprehension of an item does not entail that this comprehension is anchored in an objective reality upon which it is contingent.
I suppose that the reason I stopped reading and studying philosophy has to do with the fact that each philosophy is a construct of persons own mental travels in the land of thought. There is no absolute premise that is given to us ‘like a given Truth’ to work from. And even there we are in the land of reason and ultimately a place where ‘order’ is superior to ‘disorder’. Now this is where all things seem to go: it is harmony and order that creates satisfactory results but the premise must first be true. Man seems to have a penchant for order: certain relative harmonies of vibrations . . . whether they are musical or light waves or thought patterns. They are relative to a starting point. For instance musicologists have chosen 440 cps to represent internation A in music and all the others notes must be in a strict ratio to that in order to find harmony rather than dissonance. Certain combinations of colors might work better together for the same reasons as could our ideas of beauty as things near the golden ratio. So in theology it seems we are given a Truth about God and that being in imago dei we carry within us a desire to reach for perfection, harmony, peace, beauty etc. as almost a natural function of the human person. Some folks have perfect pitch, most have relative pitch and a few seem to have a tin ear. But even there . . . they can be taught to have relative pitch. So I don’t know about idealism or realism in its various philosophical forms but we all know that which makes us comfortable and that which makes us uncomfortable. As to the ultimate perfection . . . who knows how God will allow each of his spiritual children to experience heaven. It will be perfect for each of them though probably not the same. But God is always the same and perfect but none of us will ever see the fullness of that perfection even in the life to come . . . not personally at least and I doubt even collectively. But it is interesting how we all relate to an inborn perfection and ordiliness that leads us to try to replicate or ‘create’ that which is pleasing.
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I’m very pleased to see you agree with innatism (as did Leibniz, Plato, and Descartes). Your comment reminded me of the metaphor of God as the composer and our lives together are his symphony. Each piece by itself may have a certain beauty (or strangeness), but when they are synthesized, the grand concerto emerges.
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As long as they are in harmony with the Great International A that God Himself uses. If not their lives are a strange disonance and God repels it and if we are seeking order and harmony so do we. Sin is the great dissonance in our world and in our lives. Trying to train a tin-ear is doable and by God’s Grace we can all attain a portion of that order and harmony that God intended for us.
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God is one, infinite, all in all and over all. God is the creator of souls which are part of God and the same divine essence which is the source of consciousness and awareness without which no one would know or experience anything.
God is eternal, the beginning and end of all. God is the creator of the divine principles that govern the life, consciousness, and the laws of this physical universe and the energy and matter created in an intense moment that set in motion time and space. God is the ultimate being and the source of life in this universe.
For those who deny or doubt that God exists, I believe that they will realize there is a greater awareness and being than our limited human consciousness after the body dies, and the soul is liberated from its confinement. Many proofs for the existence of God have been offered such as a creator, first cause, or prime mover that is necessary for existence and that enables the free pursuit of the good or all values, intelligent consciousness, and any purpose freely chosen.
Panentheism is the belief that God is not only in all things but also transcends all created things. Every soul experiences the ability to freely choose how to direct one’s consciousness which is given with life.
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Yes, I subscribe to panentheism as well.
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Doesn’t N.T Wright reject Panentheism in his book Simply Christianity in chapter 5? He articulates that in the proper frameworks of Judaism and God’s revelation that God interacts with the world in a way in the Old Testament that expressed that heaven and earth overlap but are also separate. In a way, doesn’t Augustine address this in his Confessions books 7-9? After spending 9 years in Manichaeism, where light and darkness permeates the world, he formulated the position that God being all good could not be the source of evil–such things as a cancer cell panentheism has trouble to explain– therefore it was man who is responsible for evil.
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Panentheism itself comes in a variety of flavours, but the problem with those who reject it is that they must work around the verse: “For in Him we live and move and have our being”. We must, in order to be orthodox, say that our existence is contingent upon God, and that seems to entail some form of panentheism or pantheism. Regarding sin, we need to make a distinction between permission and condoning. If God has created us as free moral agents then He permits us to sin, but that does not mean that He approves of our sin. This idea, which again is orthodox, is compatible with panentheism.
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So you equate God is Existence as Panentheism? As I’ve heard many Thomist articulate. Although I realize Aquinas rejected Augustine/Platonism forms; however Augustine does explain that God is like sunlight moving through a window and other forms.
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I’ve read more on the topic, and some insight by Aquinas, I think for now, I’ll agree with N.T. Wright’s option three in Simply Christian. In regards to Malcolm’s quotations of scripture, Wright acknowledges with his idea that the world and God are both separate and interconnected. When scripture indicates that God is in us and we’re in God, It’s also rooted the classical orthodox position that we’re one of the interconnections of the creation and the divine. Of course, this is manifested perfectly in the Incarnation of Christ. If Panentheism is true, then in affect, a rabbit would be relational to God as the Incarnation–a point that N.T. Wright asserts and I’m likely to agree. There is the classical Christian theological position of Creation ex nihilo, which articulates God not being dependent on the world. Panentheism struggles with this idea.
For example, Malcolm quotes, ““in whom we live and move and have our being.”
This had to be kept in check by Acts 17, ” “God who made the world and everything in it, he who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by human hands, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mortals life and breath and all things.”
God is existence because he is merely a necessary being and we’re contingent on his existence to exist; however, this doesn’t blur the lines between the sacred and the profane.
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The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church defines panentheism as “the belief that the bring of God includes and penetrates the entire universe so that every part of it exists in him … but that his being is more than, and is not exhausted by the universe.
I like what Bishop John Robinson said. “The world is not simply something that can be joined to “God”by the word “and” as in traditional theistic discourse, but that it is in God and God is in it in a way that perhaps enables one to talk of the “divine field” as a physicist might talk of a magnetic field.
“In this way of thinking” says Robinson,”there is a coinherence between God and the universe which overcomes the duality without denying the diversity.
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in line 2 – being not bring
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Panentheism is really the only concept that takes into account both the transcendence and immanence of God. He is above all and beyond all and at the same time within all.
” One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. ” Ephesians 4:6
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So, what is your take on Wright’s view against Panentheism, as described above I’ve been very impressed with Thomists who articulate God is existence. However Wright’s examples of the Old Testament God make sense as well.
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I haven’t studied N.T Wright’ to really know what his views against Panentheism are. I’ve always been impressed with Gustav Fechner view on Panentheism. He lived in the 19th century.
“God as the totality of being and acting, has no external environment, no beings outside himself; his is one and unique; all spirits move in the inner world of his spirit: all bodies in the inner world of his body; he exists purely within himself, he is determined by nothing external to him; his is a purely inner, self determination,because he includes the determining grounds of all existence.”
The Divine is wholly creator and wholly involved with the creation ;proceeding from nothing, totally itself and within itself creating creation. All things are produced from out of the divine potentiality. and consequently find their actualization and completion. within the same and singular divinity.
Another way of putting it is to say that God is not to be found in history, but history in God.
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Idealism. Like the CCs Holy Office and celibate priests.Men of god. Heres what the Holy father has come up with now;
” indicated he would be open to a change in the rules governing eligibility for the priesthood. “We need to consider if ‘viri probati’ could be a possibility,” he said. Viri probati is the Latin term for “tested men” or married men of outstanding faith and virtue. … ”
Idealism….men of outstanding faith and virtue. yes, the CC must have this Ideal priest….at least the Holy Father says his priests are virtuos and outstanding faith. It keeps the devotees from waking up screaming in the night.
The church that never changes( another Idealistic untrue claim) has a lack of men of god. The head costume is thinking about letting married men in. Catholicism is worn out and is dying. Its priestcraft is dropping dead from AIDs and or are being run out of town on a rail. Humans are sexual beings by god given nature, and to be a priest of Baal one has to sneak around and have their yayas. Only desperate pedophiles have the nerve to become priests now a days. The protection is the best in the House of Dagon.
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