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It seems that when a politician gets elected and proceeds to implement his programme (upon which he was elected) this is a cause of outrage – at least to judge from the demonstrations in Washington, London and other cities. Whether what President Trump has done with his 90 ban on people from certain countries is wise, is a matter of opinion, and as it involves the US law, it is probably a matter for legal dispute. What is not in dispute is that this is the sort of thing he promised to do. Usually we react badly when politicians find reason for not doing what it was we elected them to do; now we have an interesting reversal. Trump failed to win a majority of the popular vote, but he is the duly-elected president; except that those who did not vote for him seem not to want to accept the verdict of the election. We see something similar in the UK with Brexit.
It is clear that liberal opinion in our societies is outraged that the idiot voters have ignored their advice, and their reaction to it seems to be to hector, lecture and virtue signal until – well, until what? The duly expressed will of the people changes? What a very dangerous route this is. If, when the next Obama wins, those who oppose him refuse to accept his legitimacy and take to the streets against him. what will those liberals who are now doing so have to say to them? Democracy depends on accepting the outcome of elections run on rules you knew they were being run on, and then in accepting as part of that the actions of the new Government. By all means protest at their actions, but the scale of the hysteria on Trump and Brexit suggests that many liberals seem to think the rules only apply when elections come out where they wanted them to come out. Two, of course, can play at that game – and alas will do so in the future.
Let me say up front, I voted ‘remain’ and I would not, had I had a vote, voted from Trump. I think that the British Government is managing the Brexit process as well as it can, but that the outcome will not be a good one; I think Trump lowers the tone of government and would be well-advised not to treat those who disagree with him as traitors. But be that as it may, the electorate decided what it decided, and we have to live with that. The notion that Trump should be disinvited from his State visit is an astonishing one. Nothing he has done compares to what China has done to Tibet. But I saw no million strong petition protesting that one; similarly with the King of Saudi Arabia. That the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition seems to think this is an option is merely another sign of his unfitness for the office he holds. Those opposed to trump and Brexit would be well-advised to get some decent leaders and begin the struggle for power by legitimate means.
All Along the Watchtower 
Well said. This particular matter, is not really even disputable, if one can read. Federal immigration law says this in Title 8, Section 1182(f):
“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate”
Which is backed up by this, from the Supreme Court
“The power to regulate immigration—an attribute of sovereignty essential to the preservation of any nation—has been entrusted by the Constitution to the political branches of the Federal Government.”
That seems to me to cover the matter thoroughly, one doesn’t have to like what he’s doing, I happen to, but he is well within his constitutional authority. Every measure he has done has been the same. That said the implementation was a bit botched.
And maybe that’s the problem. The left simply can’t deal with someone who doesn’t agree with them, and basically ignores them to do his job.
As for tone, well, I’m not overly fond of Trump’s either. But it’s far better than that of the left recently, or for that matter a good many broadcasters, (possible redundancy alert) both here and there. And without Trump’s brashness, and imperturbability, I doubt he would have won.
Asa for the state visit, after all the nonsense in the UK, are you sure he’ll accept that invitation? Although I hear that the petition asking the Queen to invite him – that the Grauniad and the BBC won’t talk about – has more signatures than the one opposed.
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At the moment the ‘ban’ petition has more as it started earlier. Quite mad – we invite the King of Saudi Arabia and the women object to Trump!
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Just up, and hadn’t checked, still the fact that it exists is important.
Yes the whole thing, in both countries, is quite mad.
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Which just further confirms in my mind that the majority of this mob of cultural Marxists are using this platform to massage their own liberal agenda. Not all of us are so easily duped.
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They need to remember that if Trump is forced out, they will have given his supporters an example of what to do to any successor – and they ought to bear in mind that there are more guns in Trump-voting areas than in Vermont!
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Uh-ohhh…..good point.
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Yes, if they set the example of rioting in the street, they will sown the wind and reap the whirlwind.
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NEO, I “like” what Trump is doing too! 😊👌
And if I were an American I would most definitely have voted for him.
Unlike many who are too scared to admit to being a Trump supporter (fearing to get browbeaten by the aggressive lefties who talk much of “tolerance” and “freedom of speech”, but fail to practice what they preach) I will stick my neck out here… For who was the only feasible alternative candidate to Trump at the U.S. Elections? None other than baby-muderer, radical feminist, Muslim-kowtowing Hillary Clinton!!
That (IMHO) means there was no doubt which candidate was the better choice.
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As you likely know, Kathleen, that was exactly my thoughts on the matter. My support now has much to do with him doing what he said he would do. And it was very good to see the VP speaking personally to the March for Life last weekend. I am beginning to think that he has evolved for real, and not just for votes. There will be problems, I’m sure, but he was the best on offer.
And how good to see you here, my friend. I’ve missed you. 🙂
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Ah, NEO (blush), thank you, and good to see you too. (Whenever we mention Lutheranism on Catholicism Pure & Simple, I nearly always put in a good word for our old friend NEO. 😊
Yes, if the first days are anything to go by, things are looking good for the U.S. Donald Trump has stuck to his promises, without allowing the angry roars of the frustrated liberals to either deter him, or to backslide. He could teach our (mostly) spineless European leaders a few lessons! And many in the Catholic hierarchy today too. He’s truly showing himself to be “more Catholic than the Pope!!…. (though it hurts to have to say so!)
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Very fetching, Kathleen, but all know my liking for blushing girls. 🙂 I should get over to your place more often, can only plead that time is somewhat limited, but I still read you guys in my reader.
Yep, so far so good. It feels so different than those dark gloomy days when we started out. A new dawn perhaps, but it could still be a false one. I think he will. Part of the oppos problem is their lack of contact with the real world, where deals are negotiated so everyone wins. Well, I hope so, anyway.
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Oops, I “liked” my own comment up there ^ by mistake, when meaning to like one of NEO’s! Sorry.
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Just more Soros-based optics and progressive thuggery we are watching. If you did not know better, by the news accounts the ‘populist’ reaction is one of outrage. It is total bunk. Only 1/3 of the people are against this latest executive order to take a ‘time out’ until we can find a better way of vetting folks from these nations.
But the true stripes of the progressives is that they are exactly the opposite of what they claim to be; loving, merciful, kind-hearted etc. The stories nobody covers are full of stories about how the teacher who spoke at a Black Lives Matters protest called for killing white people and burning down the white house or knocking Trump supporteres out by beating unconscious a supporter by unleashing 10 goons upon the supporter to beat the crap out of him. These folks are criminal and it would do my heart good to see a bunch of them languishing in prison until they are very old indeed.
Trump has done nothing more than what we wanted him to do and surprise of surprise he told us that he was going to do these things before we elected him. It seems to me that folk like yourself ought soon to understand, by the reaction of the left, that they make a mistake by throwing in their lot with rabble and criminal constituency that is the trademark of the left; an unholy aliance between the very elite and the revolutionary [Che Guevara] leftists and any other angry people that they can encourage to rob, pillage, kill or beat.
In fact, this it probably one of the biggest reasons that Trump has won; we the people are sick and tired of the lawlessness of these people and if the other elites of europe wish to continue their charade then they will be left behind as we try to reinstate law, order and justice for the American citizen. They will have to reap what they sow in their discontent and worsening relationships with the US if that is their goal. Our president and his constituency has another agenda; to restore the vitality of this Republic and enforce the government’s mandate to end this era of lawlessness that Obama ushered in a way that made Bush look like a piker.
Our FrancisChurch folk and USCCB who got oodles of money from the Obama regime are fighting like the girls they are as they see their coffers run dry of federal monies; of course they say it is a matter of Christian ethics. And like you said in your piece where was the outrage when after Desert Storm the Kurds were pursued and slaughtered by Sadam and the refugees were being killed by the Turks as they tried to escape? No outrage . . . and the rest of the ‘nice, gentlemanly Europeans with a nice ‘tone’ about them said narry a thing and did even less. I guess there wasn’t any gain in it for them.
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Nothing to add here Scoop. They are, indeed, demonstrating why Trump won. Just think, is the Dems had gone with Biden rather than that crook HRC, they would probably have won. But they won’t accept any blame for their own miscalculations.
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And thank God we were spared either one of those prospects for President. Things could have been much worse and frankly another Progressive after Obama might have sunk the enthusiasm of the people to reject parties and elect someone who is apparently going to do what he said he was going to do.
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@ Scoop
Ouch! Being a European, your words sting a little.
But I couldn’t agree more with everything you say here (@1:35pm). 😉
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Thanks. No barbs intended toward the peoples . . . after all it is the leaders and how they have brain washed the citizens over the past half-century.
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Won’t answer for Scoop, but you know, Kathleen, when Americans speak of Europeans, we rarely mean Brits. You guys tend to be us, just less rowdy.
I do wish somebody would explain how Canada got so looney all of a sudden, though.
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Actually Canada has been looney for many, many years . . . pretty much everything post-second world war.
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True. Harper was more the aberration, but one always hopes.
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“You guys tend to be us, just less ROWDY”
NEO, this had me in fits of giggles 😄
God Bless America! You are a warm, (rowdy) and lovable people. I mean it.
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Then my day is a success! 🙂
God save the Queen!
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I may not like all of Trump’s behaviours in the past and some of the things he has said, but at the time of his campaigning I instinctively felt he was standing up for the forgotten, hard working, middle class and Christian people of his country. People who have worked hard all their life and seen their voices drowned out by the uber liberal screechers who would like to get rid of Christianity altogether because it compromises their liberal way of living and thinking. I also respect the fact that he is now doing what he said he would do – a rare thing in any politician really. It is still early days for him so who knows how it will all pann out but I do wish the protesters would shut up and go and do something more useful like actually, physically supporting some of the things in life they feel passionate about e.g. open THEIR homes to the refugee families, create more food stations for the poor immigrants etc. etc. I wonder how many would actually do this??
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Trump is America’s problem and they must sort it out. If he comes to the UK all well and good, if he doesn’t its relatively unimportant. There are far more important issues about which to be outraged. The plight of Christians in Syria and the Middle East if far more serious.
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Which further reinforces my point about these so-called protesters. Would they rant and rave and go on marches about the plight of Christians around the world?? Errr…..no, I think not, and we all know why that would be. Sigh.
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I may be wrong, but most protesters tend to seize upon some issue to vent their anger on humanity in general. I was very unhappy about the Iraq war. I wrote to Tony Blair expressing my opposition, but he didn’t reply.
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It is, and what the media didn’t tell you is that once we figure out how to vet the refugees, Syrian Christians – for the first time – will have a preference.
For that matter, if one wants Brexit ( or the UK, in general) to succeed, well getting along with the US might be in order, because we (including the President) do want you to succeed, but we are not likely to put your welfare above ours, nor do we expect you to put ours above yours.
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We shall wait and see if Syrian Christians really do have preference under Trump’s regime.
As Britishers we don’t expect America to put her welfare above ours. However it remains to be seen if Trump is a,trump or a failure as a president.
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More likely than ever before, I think. But not a done deal, but he is building a reputation for doing what he said he would.
Of course it is, but he has accomplished more in 10 days than Obama did in 8 years.
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NEO I just watched some excerpts from Trump’s meeting with the Pharma folks this morning . . . refreshing. He pointed out that the US people are paying for the difference in prices for drugs around the world. The EU, and practically all of the world gets a subsidized price on the drugs that are developed here and we end up paying inflated prices which is paid for with public monies raised from the US customers and our state healthcare industry [same thing . . . the people’s money].
If the world wants to squeal when they begin to pay what we pay then let them. We have been bankrolling the rest of the world for far too long. They have been nuzzled up to Uncle Sam’s teats for long enough and there is long line that thinks it is their right to be afforded a bit of our so-called prosperity which is an optic only; as we are in debt up to our eyeballs.
That reminds me . . . I wonder how long Merkel and the rest of the EU plans on bankrolling the Greeks and how they plan on keeping them afloat along with those countries who are quickly becoming as insolvent as the Greeks. This is what will eventually unravel the EU no matter if other countries follow the Brits in Brexit or not.
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Yep, we are pretty well done with welfare queens, wherever they are. You noticed that Mrs. May touched on it, as well, on defense spending.
I think the Brits were very wise with Brexit. They got ahead of the curve, because the EU is going to unravel, I think in the next 5 years, and Europe has very dark days ahead of it. UK and US not so much, although there will be hiccups. Still leading. Australia’s PM, though is looking like a fool.
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Well, if they want a place at the old sow they best understand that she needs a rest so that more milk might get produced. To bite the hand that is feeding you is a foolish route for these folk to embark upon.
Not just Australia . . . just one amongst many I fear. They will get the message when they witness a revival of the UK and the US in the World Order . . . the Old World Order.
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Your keyboard to God’s monitor.
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Correction: I don’t understand the criticism of Turnbull of Australia. Didn’t he back Trump and didn’t he get reassurances on a phene call to Trump that our immigration policies with Australia will not change? Color me confused or are you speaking of a news story I missed entirely?
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Andrew Bolt says he’s completely missing the boat, and doesn’t see leadership when it’s on display. Trump, yes, but May as well. Plus, he still thinks we’re going to swap refugees with him. From what Bolt says, Abbott has had more than enough of him. Guess we’ll see, though.
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Missed that one . . . thanks.
Folks are getting unhinged because almost ‘everything’ has a relationship to the Obama Doctrine; redistribution of wealth. The trade deals which the American working stiffls bankroll, the refugees that get the subsidies earned on the back of a people whose laws many do not want to follow . . . just the checks. We work more hours than Europeans do, get less holidays, retire later in life and get less goods and services . . . which we really don’t think is the purpose of government in the first place. But alas, they have an agend to make us all subservient to the state and grovel for another bowl of porridge. Most people simply don’t see what the typical middle class working stiff sees; Greeks getting bailed out by the EU when they are retiring with copious benefits when they are still in the 40’s etc. They suck from the teat of the EU; primarily Germany and the UK and the entire EU and the IMF are supported by our bad trade deals and contributions to the IMF which are quite substantial. It is a mess that will take a number of good Presidents to unwind us from . . . especially that great old Ponzi scheme called Social Security which has never been secure and is nothing but a discretionary money pot for our politicians to play with.
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When I lived in the USA at the start of the Clinton era, my late wife worked in the local bank, and both of us were struck by how few holidays Americans got compared to the ones she was used to in the UK. We are also struck by the state of the infrastructure (this was mid-Missouri), so I agree with and understand what you are saying here, Scoop.
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Thanks. I think most people simply ignored the disparity here as they were too busy working 40 to 80 hours a week to pay attention. But now that Obama has made a wreck of the full time job and replaced it with 3 part time jobs without benefits we are beginning to pay a whole bunch of attention to these things. Trump seems to have picked up on this and nobody of the political class seemed to.
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I agree. I think the world is a bit nonpulsed that the American work ethic is now on display in our government. Lots of things are going to change. I especially like that EO that mandates 2 regulations be removed for everyone passed. The days of 4-5% GDP growth approach, if he keeps it up, and Congress does somewhat the right thing, which I won’t bet on yet – but 2018 approaches. The thing I really see these days, in America, is our old optimism has returned, not all the way – but it’s back. The world is about to be left behind – still again. I also think Theresa May, and Netanyahu has a sense of this, and are not about to be left behind. Not sure many others do.
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They will if our economy catches fire . . . the world will be begging at our doorstep as usual. But they will have to endure a time of fasting and abstinence from the continuous, seemingly, infinite depth of our pockets to benefit everyone around the globe. Hopefully, our true friends will be found during these times and the UK and Israel are two that I bet will stick with us through thick or thin . . . but we shall see how it plays out. Theresa May gives me hope as do others. Netanyahu is desperate for an ally in these troubling times . . . so he is definitely on-board.
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Yes, for a time it will have to be enough for them for us to keep them free enough to be useful (or perhaps useless) idiots. I agree with your analysis in large part. But think Netanyahu agrees with most of it, in any case.
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I think he does as well but remember that Netanyahu has a substantial wind blowing against him even in his own country.
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Yes, he does. But then like the US and the UK, Israel is above all things, a free country, so it’s to be expected.
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True and it is interesting to see Obama and the Europeans giving them such a hard time when the State of Israel itself was created [not out of compassion or Biblical right] but because nobody wanted all the Jewish refugees after the war. Can these people spell hypocrisy?
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Indeed so.
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Indeed, and if, as reported, Trump has persuaded the Saudis to act, then he’s done more to help the refugees than the Obamamessiah.
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Glad you caught this. That was huge thing that Obama didn’t even pursue . . . and we should take pause to wonder why?
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I also just read that Trump and Putin in their telephone conversation have put it in train to shove Iran back out of Syria and Iraq. I never thought it made a lot of sense to freeze Putin out, once he got his nose in the tent. So we’ll probably be stuck with Assad for a time, but given how Iraq turned out, that may not be the worst of all possible things.
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That is good news. I also think Putin is a camels nose under the tent for those who are envisioning a global state governance. In this fight I think we will find that he will be an ally with those who see this as a spider’s trap.
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I’m inclined to agree. It’s interesting that he is the one (more or less) western leader promoting the church, however poorly.
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There is something stirring in Russia and I think it is wise for us to watch and help any movement toward this shift toward Christianity. There may be ways we can help that happen if [and it is a big if] we can regain our Christian culture to extend into the overall culture of government. Trump would have a chance to nurture this if we could simply get rid of this present secular, leftist trend in our country.
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I agree with that as well. Trumps a lousy Christian, and likely so is Putin, but you fight the war with the army you’ve got, and I think his heart may be in the right place.
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Well anti-PC is good place to start, isn’t it NEO. 🙂
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Sho’ nuff, Scoop! 🙂
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🙂
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🙂
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BTW: have you seen the latest degeneration of that wonderful old institution the Boy Scouts? I know it is only a shadow of its former self but now they have decided to allow transgenders into their ranks . . . so much for the old mottos and virtues that were taught to our young boys. May as well just shut them down as they have become useless at this point.
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I agree. I never thought “Always prepared’ meant this. Girl Guides in the UK, too. Baden-Powell must be horrified.
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No doubt.
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PS, Chalcedon
I agree with every word you say. I also voted to remain and the Brexit vote is going to cause many problems. Teresa May is doing her best and I support her.
“Let me say up front, I voted ‘remain’ and I would not, had I had a vote, voted from Trump. I think that the British Government is managing the Brexit process as well as it can, but that the outcome will not be a good one; I think Trump lowers the tone of government and would be well-advised not to treat those who disagree with him as traitors.”
But as I have said Trump is America’s problem.
Thank God here in Britain we have a head of state who is above it all.
God Save the Queen. .
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Indeed, Malcolm, and the arguments for the monarchy seem to me to get stronger every day 🙂 God Save the Queen!
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Trump isn’t America’s problem at all Malcolm. A culture of political correctness and a steady course toward socialist secular thinking and their policies which is killing the American spirit. In this sense Trump is a huge asset not a liability; pro-life, pro-law abiders, pro-religious freedom, pro-jobs, pro-working stiff. The left call it ‘populist’ with great disdain but it what this country was founded on; the will of the people . . . a people’s government . . . of, by and for the people. I think we lost sight of this during these last 50 years or so.
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Scoop, I agree, how on earth can Trump be called a “problem” when he is defending the rights of Christians and all upright American citizens. The real “problem” (a.k.a. the enemy) are those fascist, anti-Christian, radical secularists who are fighting to take away our religious freedom.
How do supposedly intelligent people let themselves be brainwashed by our Christian-hating press in this way? Why play their game?
Trump is standing up for Christians, our right, our beliefs. It’s counterproductive to bash him!
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Indeed it is Kathleen. And why is our FrancisChurch supporting this leftist agenda . . . what an unholy alliance has been built during these past 50 years or so. Ss. Peter and Paul pray for us. Ss. Mary and Joseph pray for us. We are unraveling our Church at about the same speed as the secular world is unraveling under its own weight.
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Well said, Scoop.
Pope Francis (BTW, elected to the Chair of Peter under suspicious circumstances, as I’m sure you are aware) does indeed appear to be working to destroy the Sacred Deposit of Faith, instead fulfilling his duty as Christ’s Vicar on Earth to be its true guardian!! It’s incredible what terrible and wicked things we witnessed lately. We have had some bad popes before in the Catholic Church’s 2000 year-long history, but have we ever had one who attacks Her DOCTRINES? I don’t think so. Many believe we are living in those dangerous times of the reign of Satan* who has infiltrated the Holy Bride of Christ.
* Re, Pope Leo XIII’s vision of Satan’s challenge to Our Lord.
But we need not fear – “the gates of Hell will not prevail…” – we have Christ’s promise for this. In the meantime our own faithfulness to the Church’s teaching, much prayer, frequenting the Sacraments and the Holy Rosary is the best (and only) way to fight the evils that assail us.
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Suspicious circumstances indeed, Kathleen, and you echo much of what I see going on in these foul times. We need all the spiritual weapons we can get at present. I only hope that not many are lost and that Christ have mercy on those who are as confused as satan could possibly make them.
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I’m glad you are able to see him that way. Not all of your fellow Americans would agree with you.
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That is the nature of democracies. Why should this be any different?
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Yea for good brother Trump. I couldn’t be happier.
May all of you have a very merry Boscomas.
O Boscomas tree, O Boscomas tree!
Thou tree most fair and lovely!
Oh Boscomas tree, O Boscomas tree!
Thou tree most fair and lovely!
The sight of thee at Boscomastide
Spreads hope and gladness far and wide
Oh Boscomas tree, O Boscomas tree
Thou tree most fair and lovely!
Happy Boscomas everyone.
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Happy Bosco day, Bosco.
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Thank you friend. May all your Boscomas be white.
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Scoop, your last post is very interesting to read. I agree with you re your point about the eventual collapse of the EU. This would not surprise me at all and I sense there may have been long held mis-givings about the usefulness and validity of the EU by others in it which may now become apparent with a few more pondering how to exit. We shall see. IMHO, whatever happens, the current system may well be better served by collapsing altogether before it can be re-built into something which will work better for everyone.
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You may be right on the collapse of the EU. I hope it doesn’t.
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Me too – we shall be very badly hit if it does. I was very disappointed with the ‘Remain’ campaign, which was a poor one and relied on fear. It would have been good to have heard the positive case.
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I am of the same opinion with the case for not bailing out the collapse of the economy in 2007-8. It would have been painful for about a year and then the daylight would come up brighter than ever. I think that a collapse of the EU will produce the same result. The Greeks will have to work for a living and produce something as will everyone else. I think that is a good result and each country will have to find out how to motivate its citizens to such an end. I don’t think giveaways and welfare will buy you out of difficulties for that is the path that you are on and it is never ending until the whole of the EU is dependent upon somebody who actually has their house in order. But the problem will be too large and too expensive for that to work now . . . we can only help save individual ‘friendly’ countries and even then we won’t or we can’t take the whold burden on ourselves. So best be grateful for your trying to extricate yourself from this ‘redistribution of wealth’ global march towards a Marxist or Communist end . . . a world of grey where everyone is equal . . . except for the elites of course.
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The recession in 1920-21 is instructive. Harding kept the USG out of the way, and the ‘Roaring 20s’ resulted. Too bad Hoover didn’t learn from it.
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And with the EU the same is becoming clear to me. The longer you wait to unravel this beast the harder it will be to put things right again without civil revolt.
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Couldn’t have said it better. If that is possible, especially in the southern tier.
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It was a very poor campaign Remain ran. But I’m with Scoop (I think) the EU was doomed long ago, when it was extended to countries that are seemingly doomed to be welfare from the rich north. I doubt Britain will have all that tough a time when it collapses, if HMG does its job properly. Say ready to go trade agreements with us, but also Canada, and say with perhaps India, and some of those food producers in Africa. That should be enough to make up any shortfall, at least in the basics. And Britain has much to offer as well, as it always has.
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C, would you please present the positive case. The whole idea of taxes going to the elite in Brussels is anathema to me.
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The taxes do not go to an elite in Brussels, they help fund social and infrastructure projects in places where they would not otherwise happen. The EU is the largest single market in the world and has seen Europe recover from being a post-war disaster area economically to one of the most prosperous parts of the world. It had helped prevent the sort of rivalry between nations which caused the last two world wars. Seems pretty good to me.
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Correct me if I am wrong, C, but isn’t this a form of socialism? And isn’t it the more socialist countries that were having problems competing in the first place? If so you are only exacerbating the situation. Americans believe in fair competition and expect that the people and the governements will discover whether their policies work or not ONLY by reaping the rewards or the failures of their systems. That is enough of an incentive for change in the present world order. Otherwise, if you are all into rewarding those who cannot or will not change to remedy their situation, are you not giving incentive for stasis among countries that are not successful under their present systems?
As I said yesterday, how can I have sympathy for a 48 year old man in Greece who wants to retire with full benefits and who worked maybe 30-35 hours a week with holidays galore. And here, in the ‘rich’ and ‘priviledged’ US, my wife and I worked weeks of between 40 and 80 hours a week all our lives. After 39 years of marriage we have yet to have taken a vacation that wasn’t a shortened [2-5] day working holiday where we were working while physically away from our offices. Now some of that was our choice to provide for our children and to save for our old age and and retirement. But we were not upset or angry that we had to sacrifice for the future; we expected it. And we are not a uncommon couple here in the US . . . who do such things for their own future good. But this, get something for nothing culture has entered our country and it is quite sad to watch.
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Well, Greece was ruled by a Fascist regime until the early 1970s, so it is hard to label legislation introducing then as ‘socialist’. Is it socialism that the USA has federal taxes and local sales tax? That is the nearest analogy. And, of course, it is the EU which is telling Greece there are no more free rides – which seems terribly non-socialist.
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OK . . . National Socialism then . . . but socialism all the same. Yes it is socialism in the US if the federal taxes and local sales taxes are not being used for the ‘common good’ but to further gain of small constituencies or to further push a PC optic that will give them credibility in the eyes of the world.
Seems they have warned Greece before to no avail and barked without a bite. We’ll see the outcome but I think the EU is stuck in the Obama loop of ‘too big to fail’. The reason is that if they let them fail they will soon be seing other who are on the brink of failure soon follow. Or on the bright side they will have to tighten their belts, reduce goods and services and their people will have to work longer and harder than have in the past. But this last one is doubtful. Once a country gives a befefit to the people it becomes ensconced and is treated as a right. But then we are back at the disonance that you were trying to prevent . . . civil wars and unrest which spawn wider conflicts. Again, it seems counter-productive.
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There’s a difference between socialism and national socialism. The latter is using the resources of the State purely for your own national ends – the antithesis of the EU, which helped transform a war-ruined Europe in an economic power. When I was young, the UK was seen as the sick man of Europe – it stopped being that in the 80s and 90s when it was part of the EU. Is Trump really going to waive his economic nationalism for the UK? He may, he may not.
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Yes you did. You needed a helping hand to make you self sustaining and you did . . . and the US had a large part to play in that as well. The UK was the largest foreign land owner and business owner in the US until late into the 80’s as I recall.
But what about those whose countries have been continuing to run a deficit even under the EU utopia? Without creditors, these countries would have failed already and where will they go for finance then? It is a socialistic welfare state except on a larger multi-national scale. If one is allowed to fold the others will not find the credit they need to stay afloat unless there is something to be gained from them. I always look asconce at the perceived humanitarian optics as they are usually only a show. Greece has nothing to offer other than the fact that if they fail others will as well . . . and especially now, the EU does not want to see that happen.
If you and Germany want to bankroll them that is your business and your fellow countrymen’s concern. Humanitarian aid is one thing but propping up a failed country is quite another. I see no upside in how this will all end.
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The US was one of the main backers of the EU, which it saw as a way of helping Western Europe resist Communism and prosper. That worked well. It was only with the explosion of globalism that the indebtedness became a problem – as it is for the USA. The UK has decided it wants to try something new, though no one has much of an idea of what it will look like – seems a bit risky to me given the global situation- so I hope the Brexiteers got it right.
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I think that they did but you know that already. It would seem to me that explosion of globalism is starting to be seen for what it is . . . an elitist move toward total power, both economic and political. It is not a future that looks bright but Orwelian to me. I wish you luck because you have an oppurtunity to lead the rest of Europe into a new era that gets back to basic principles of life while rejecting this impersonal and remote [almost surreal] existence that seems to be the desire of all the global financiers and open border folks in the Soros mold.
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You couldn’t say globalisation had anything to do with socialism – that was free marketeers – and free markets tend towards monopolisation unless, as with the US ant-trust laws, some external authority intervenes. On the future, we shall see. I don’t have as long left as the young, most of whom voted to remain
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Indeed anti-trust laws are important if we want to see new technologies emerge without being swallowed up and/or suppressed. Over-regulation of small businesses has almost negated that however since small business cannot afford to abide by the mountains of regulatory laws. And if you don’t see globalization as a matter of wealth redistribution [with the same suspects getting rich in the meanwhile] then you aren’t reading between the lines in the same manner that I do. But that’s OK . . . we each have our personal opinions on such things. The poor countries are not getting richer and more prosperous though they are living as though they are on somebody else’s dime. It appears to me that the richer nations and the financiers are the winners in the EU more than the whole of the member states.
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It was a missed opportunity.
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It was, indeed.
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Well Malcolm, it is one thing for countries to give away their sovereignty for a time and then win it back. But what is in store for the EU I’m afraid is that it has given up both individual sovereignty on many things but has given away their overall culture as well. Now it is a former Christian culture, living presently as a secular culture with an ascendency of a Muslm culture which will soon change the face of the world. Good luck with all of that.
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Actually we do not know what is in store for the EU.
Neither do we know if those of us who are Brits have made the right decision as regards Brixit. I don’t think we have won back our sovereignty. Previous governments have encouraged immigration long before our decision to leave the EU. The cat is already out of the bag and the best we can do is to live with an ascending Muslim culture.
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Well of course none of us has a crystal ball that gives an accurate prophecy of the future. If we did there would be no reason for voting or for referendums.
But Malcolm, of all people, why would you lose heart and embrace a defeatist attitude about the fate of sovereignty or the recovery of a Christian Culture. Hope is eternal my friend. Living with an ascending Muslim culture is not written in stone. If it happens . . . it is because you and your countryman allowed it to come to fruition. There are choices that might be made as you move forward, surely?
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More than likely Orthodox Girl. But even a collapse serves a purpose as pain precedes a cure. At times it is inescapable.
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Come thou long expected Bosco
Born to set thy people free
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Outraged. the Holy Office Perfect has said “no communion for divorced or remarried people.” Holy Office….isn’t that the office that ran the burning to death of bible believers? Gerhard Meuller. No god for you sinners….Meuller, head of Holy Office Crepo says so.Achtun….No got fur ze sinners. Pay no attention to that archbishop slamming that little boy. Its you rank and file zinners that cant have gott dished out to you. Jetze keep giving your geld to us zo we can keep oppressing you. I muss go now….im guest of honor at a kiddie rape party.
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.Of course, it is not dispensable, because it is not only a positive law of John Paul II, but he expressed an essential element of Christian moral theology and the theology of the sacraments.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/ef7255e8-2f9b-3398-b076-6645e3356e1d/ss_vatican%26%2339%3Bs-muller%3A-no.html
Achtun, Johnpaul II formulated this law while he was flogging himself into the arms of gott. Ze man in de pews muss obey our moral standards, aber our holymen can be as perverted as they can possibly be during a 24 hr period. Its fine and dandy that unserer holymensh are flying out of control perverts. The rank and file love it. Do as I say, not as I do. our priests are “little christs” Don’t question what they do, as they rape your 2 yr old son. The priest returns him in, lets say, a more worthy manner.
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