Liberalism is a much abused word. In some American contexts it seems almost to be a synonym for socialism, and in Christians contexts it is usually synonymous with unorthodoxy if not downright heresy. The latest incarnation of this phenomenon is its attachment to the word ‘elite’, in, for example, the liberal elite lost Brexit and Trump’s triumph is a revolt against the ‘liberal elite’. Our new Prime Minister, Mrs May, has joined in attacking the ‘smug liberal elite’ who sneered at those who voted for Brexit. In her case one wonders if she was referring to her immediate predecessor and his good friend the Chancellor; she is clearly not referring to herself or her hedge fund manager husband who, whilst most certainly part of the elite, and almost certainly voting against Brexit, clearly do not consider themselves liberals. There is an oddness in this. It most certainly was not a conservative instinct which led to the formation of democratic forms of government, nor was it one which advocated universal education, women’s rights, equal rights for coloured people, or, come to think of it, almost any reform you can name. Indeed, in British politics, the area I know best, where it was a Conservative who pushed some reform or other, it was usually one with a prefix ‘liberal’ such as Peel or Disraeli. One might expect liberalism to have a somewhat better reputation than it has. But perhaps it only has a bad one in conservative circles?
In Christian circles it is perhaps more understandable that those who favour reform should come under suspicion; quite often their motives, like their objectives, appear to be to replace orthodoxy with an ‘anything goes’ version of the ‘faith once given’. Yet, reform is a constant necessity. Newman’s definition of liberalism bears repeating: ‘Liberalism in religion is the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but that one creed is as good as another.’ This, to his way of thinking, was untrue. Either the Catholic Church and what it taught was the Church founded by Jesus, in which case its dogma were the expression of immutable truths, or they were not, in which case it really didn’t matter very much because there was no solid foundation from truth.
This was one reason Newman thought that the emphasis on the Bible alone as the foundation of your faith was misguided. Long before the later Victorian obsession with religious scepticism and source criticism of the Bible, Newman was aware, via his friend Pusey, of the work of German Bible scholars in Gottingen who were querying everything from the notion that the world was made in six days, through to the dimensions of the ark and the physics of resurrection. He knew that literal readings of Scripture were coming under question, and he looked for the remedy to the organisation which gave the world the Bible in the first place – the Church. 1900 years of the Church and of men (and a few women) reflecting on the Good News provided a rich resource for understanding the Bible in context – what Newman’s later admirer, Pope Benedict XVI called ‘the hermeneutic of continuity’. Newman distinguished between reform and development. Doctrines developed. So, the Trinity, though not called such anywhere in Scripture, is there, and the Nicene Creed reflects the long discussion within Christendom about how to read Scripture on the subject. That being so, it was not up for renegotiation in some process by which it became something else. That was one of the main reasons he crossed the Tiber. Many of us followed suite for similar reasons.
There is something common to all of the definitions used for the usage of the word ‘liberalism’ which makes of them all kindred spirits in my mind. Liberalism implies a type of freedom from either work, thought or obedience to law and it is also a type of egalitarian spirit that makes the world regard itself as its own common end without regard to a bettering of the moral man or the common good of man. For their common good is defined of being loosed of all bonds of conscience for actions that are not defined in political or state law and in fact these laws themselves can rapidly be changed as can the type of governing system itself to suit this ‘freeing up’ of man for pursuits of pleasure and rest and general sloth that requires less and less exercise of our individual wills in living. It creates a culture that is weak and dependent upon the state which will do what the individual can no longer do for himself. This state of atrophy of the will is well described in this recent article which is rather long but worth the read: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/12/21/call-new-strenuous-age/
When the state or a religion begins to loosen its bindings to known human principles then we become a horde of parasites who look toward our governments or religions as though they were only there to comfort us: the opium of the masses . . . the useful idiots that must receive their bread and circuses . . . fed and kept sedated like beasts in a contrived zoo by the elites who will make all the hard choices for us. All we have to do is cause no trouble.
It is wrong to think that people who are conservative are not progressing or non-progressive in time to incorporating change. The difference in true conservatism is that the conservative wishes to preserve and conserve that which gives dignity to man and meaning to the lives of each of us: bearing with our own loss and pain, earning our own way in this world, finding respect and honor by actually living honorably even if it brings pain and suffering in its wake. Without human dignity and the constant exercise of our personal will and by spending some great portion of our mental and physical lives in actual immediate work on things that substantial and quantifiable then we become virtual humans who live in the fog and ethereal world where we are but a shadow of what it means to be human.
Do read the link above if you find the time to do so.
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I will, thank you, Scoop.
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I agree 100% with your last paragraph regarding conservatism.
“The difference in true conservatism is that the conservative wishes to preserve and conserve that which gives dignity to man and meaning to the lives of each of us:”
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Thank god that the church that Christ founded and the holy spirit guides stays true to the teachings of god and the bible. It is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. They don’t call it holy for nothing.
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A former teacher of year at Charlotte Catholic High says he lost his last job as a substitute with the school after a 2014 Facebook post announcing his wedding plans to his longtime male partner. In a federal lawsuit filed Wednesday, Lonnie Billard accuses of the school, the city’s Catholic school system, and the Diocese of Charlotte with illegally discriminating again him because of his sexual orientation
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/3a2c4e1b-d3d9-3680-93d1-8f88c292442e/ss_gay-teacher-sues-charlotte.html
Liberalism be damned. The universal pure and white catholic church will not tolerate homersexuals within its pure and white holy ranks.
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Not when they are honest about their actions.
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I don’t quite get what youre saying. Do you mean if they keep their personal life quiet then all is well?
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No, I mean that the Church can only take action when it knows someone is a practising homosexual.
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That’s obvious..
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It didn’t dawn on me to ask you, good brother Chalcedon, …..what particular action does the “church” take when it discovers one of its ministers is a “practicing” homer?
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His bishop will ask to see him and appropriate action taken. Most priests with such an inclination don’t tell.
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I was skimming thru news stories and ran across this, yesterday.
For decades, the Vatican dismissed accusations by seminarians that Father Maciel had abused them sexually, some when they were as young as 12. The order’s rules forbade criticizing the founder or questioning his motives. Pope John Paul II strongly backed Father Maciel, even as criticism of him mounted.
Father Marciel died in peace, unmolested by the “church” leadership, even though they knew about him for ever.
Today, despite warnings from the bishop of Scranton, Pennsylvania, where in 2002 Urrutigoity was accused of molesting a teenage boy and sleeping with and touching other young men, this priest leads a starry-eyed cadre of young male seminarians. Despite once being accused of running what a fellow priest called a “homosexual cult” in the hills of Pennsylvania, Urrutigoity now graces the diocese website here, advertising seminars for budding young Catholics.
Urrutigoity’s voyage from his native Argentina to Pennsylvania and back to South America represents a new chapter in the shocking story of abuse in the Catholic Church.
It illustrates the church’s seeming inability to prevent a priest accused of illegal acts in the United States from fleeing to a remote developing country — even one on the doorstep of Pope Francis’ homeland — and remaking himself into a powerful religious leader.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/priest-accused-abuse-u-s-rises-again-paraguay-n121231
Seems to me and to everyone else on the planet, except Papists, that the “churches” action it takes is to protect the prelate when he is discovered by the local people. Seems Cardinal Pell was protecting pedophile priests his whole career. When word go to police, he was offerd a cushy job in the Vatican where he cant be extradited. Job well do Cardinal Pell….come up hither.
Im finding an inexhaustible treasure trove of such examples.
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With nearly half a million priests, you might well. If your point is organisations, including the Church, have been slow and poor is recognising and dealing with the problem, that would be news to no one. If your point is that the Church is unique in having this problem, that would be plain wrong.
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My point would be to cast serious doubts as to the claim that the Holy Ghost quides this organization. The US govt doesn’t claim to be lead by the HS, neither does the military complex.
Its obvious that the “churches” response isn’t slow or poor. Its a conscious effort to keep its priests active and having their fill of the flocks flesh. One could be justified by calling this “church” a crime syndicate. What a perfect cover. This “church” that claims to be a pilgrim on this earth, along with every other claim to be Christlike, has its own country, a seat in the UN and diplomatic immunity for its clergy.
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Let’s see.
If I told you that in an organisation, more than 1% betrayed it, and that 99% would run away when the going got tough, you might also doubt whether the Holy Ghost was guiding it. The organisation? Jesus’ original followers.
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Good answer. The ingenuity of cathols is superb. Ive noticed that the burning alive of bible believers all the way down to the present day pedophile priests is fine and dandy because everyone is a sinner. But anyone can be saved, no matter what they have done.
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Can you show us all where the church teaches that paedo priests are ok?
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You say all manner of vice is OK with your holymen. Your religion, on paper, says vice is bad. You tell me that no matter how berserk the catholic holyman is, he still performs acts of dispensing god validly. In a way I was surprised to hear that. But on reflection, you had to say that because of how many priests are wicked.
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According to catholic precepts, the faithful can only receive god thru the costumed holyman. Now, since the majority of holymen have been wicked to the core, the catholic apologists say that it doesn’t matter….god still obeys the costumed man and comes down from heaven for the amazement of spectators.
I used to be unsaved. I don’t slight people for being unsaved. I used to think I was some demi god because I was so good on the guitar. I had all the pedals and echo box and octave splitter and fuzz face and phase shifter. I even had a univibe.
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No, it doesn’t matter. If we believe Jesus, then it is the power of God which transforms the bread and wine into his body and blood. If your God can’t do miracles, he isn’t God. If your God can’t transcend wicked men, he isn’t God. Which bit of this is even mildly hard to grasp. it’s like you’ve had a lobotomy – which is, I guess, what prejudice does to people.
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My new used 20 yr old keyboard is giving me trouble.
There is/was a learer of a evangelist church, mega church, I forgot his name, …he was standard teaching, you know, against evil and for good. He was caught doing drugs with a male prostitute in a hotel. Not caught, but found out. He lost his position as fearless leader and was on the street. Jimmy Swegart, who I used to watch every sunday, was exposed doing a prostitute in a motel. I was watching him the sunday that he tried to explain it away. I thought it was odd. but…..by next sunday it was exposed that he wasn’t helping that poor misguided soul to salvation, like he said…he was boinking her. His org wanted him out but he repented and stayed on. You see,l in the world of the supposed saved/prot world, one is cast out when it is found out that the fearless leader is going against what he/she preaches. Po
eople don’t put up with that. So what you and other cathols say is that no matter if the priest is a serial axe murderer, its fine….god still works thru him, or rather the faithful don’t care what he does in his spare time, as long as he dons the costume and folds his hands in prayer on stage. yes, every man has sinned and come short the glory of god, but say what you will about the prots…they don’t put up with illegal acts of their ministers. Well, if one just has to belong to a religion, one has to put up with that cavalcade of vice. Once one is born again that person will be led to a local group of fellow travelers. its not religion that sends one to hell…its not knowing Jesus personally(being born again) that sends one into eternity without Christ.
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No, that’s your prejudice talking. If a priest is discovered to be breaking the law he goes to jail. But that does not mean that when he was undiscovered the sacraments he dispensed were unworthy.
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Oh, by the way, the sunday after Jimmy Swegart confessed and cried on stage the whole sermon, his membership tripled. They had to have hundreds of seats outside for the overflow of idiots.
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very few of your costumes ever go to jail for molestation or any crimes. Cardials Pell and Law are being sheltered in Vatican city from prosecution. Only the real dumb ones get caught by the federales. Come on, no one is buying your tales of justice done to priests. How come you just don’t get out of that cesspool and go it alone…just you and jesus? I wouldn’t bring my dog to a catholic church. Just get out.
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I see you have run out of arguments. There are, as you must know, many examples of priests being imprisoned for their crimes. Neither Pell nor Burke have been convicted of anything, as you know, but hey, fake news is your staple diet, so how would you know the difference between it and real news?
Jesus founded a Church. He did so on Peter, we have been through this and you have long ago lost the argument. All you have is the personal statement you are right and know Jesus. Nothing in your behaviour suggests it has much of an influence on you, which is sad.
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I challenge you, good brother, or any faithful cathol who reads these pages, to deny that the clergy and leadership of the catholic church isn’t pure evil. In 1850, rather recently, the Holy Father shoved all the jews of Rome into a ghetto. Hitlers Pope was in league with his extermination of jews. Good brother Johnpaul II sold zyclone b. Ratzinger forbade bishops to call the police on pedophile priests. The Vatican wants to defrock the 3rd in command of the Knights of Malta because he wanted to help people by giving free condoms. The catholic churches policy is that no one is allowed to use condoms. What the freak is wrong with that sick sad cult of personality? You want to defend that cult? It punishes anyone who wants to help people and promotes enablers of pedophile priests. I want someone to tell me that this is the church that the holy ghost guides. Explain to me how the HS guides wicked men to lord over his people. yeah, sure, everyone has come short the glory of god……but im not going to eat a cracker out of a hand that rapes 3 yr olds. Maybe it don’t bother you all, but is sure bothers the heck outta me.
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Poor Bosco. If Pius XII did what you say, why did Gilda Meir honour him as a ‘righteous gentile’? Oh, don’t tell me, you’ve been reading anti-catholic sources again? One of the problems for you Bosco, is that you are very poorly-read, and you read only superficially and only in anti-Catholic sources. You come across as a narrow-minded and uneducated bigot as a result. That is your witness to the hope that is in you? You might consider being ashamed of yourself and getting a better education in these things.
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Well, the Concordate with Hitler is in all the history book that cover that time. Maybe that is a fake picture. I believed false stuff befor, but I try to make sure its good now a days.
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No one said there was no Concordat. You said he was involved in the holocaust. If you show where in the Concordat he said he’d hand over Jews, I shall apologise. If you can’t, an apology will do.
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Hitler didn’t ask for permission to take the jews. The holy spirit led pure and white universal church that Christ founded was an old hand at persecuting the jews. The SS was modeled after the Jesuit order.Good brother Hitler and good brother Himmler admired the catholic church. After the war the CC that Christ founded and led by the Spirit helped Nazis escape justice and get new names in south America. The jews had to secretly nab good brother Eichman and bring him to justice.
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They admired it so much that they persecuted it? Your ignorance is sad to behold.
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Hitler didn’t single out the CC for persecution…….he hated everyone equally.
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In which case your previous statement is wrong.
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The Concordat was about protecting Catholics and had nothing to do with Jews.
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Hahahahaha. I take back everything I said about you good brother. You do have a sense of humor.
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