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Catholic, Catholicism, Christianity, Europe, Faith, liberalism, Poland, Secularism
My thoughts here are of genuine conversation, there will be little history and little theology. I hope the thought I share will foster a conversation about Christianity going forward in our Western Culture and hopefully the prosperity of both.
My family on my wife’s side is split between Catholics and Confessional Lutherans. During the Christmas season, I am surrounded by as many Lutherans as Catholics, and of course, because we’re all practicing our particular forms of Christianity, we discuss topics of the Church at the dinner table. The particular topic between my wife’s cousin and myself is how Christians, in light of the rise of the supremacy of the secular West, should look more to their commonalities than their differences. I told my relative, “I have a great many conversations with a great many different Christians and as far as I can see at this moment and during our lifetime there will be theological disagreements. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate being Christian and come together in the face of the rising cynicism and unbelief that dominates our dying culture.”
One of the assertions my relative made was that Christianity is dying because we’re not building new Churches–especially in Europe. Now, there are Europeans who inhabit this blog, so I wonder how much weight of truth is there to my relative’s assertion. He believes that for centuries people have walked past what are now nothing more than old buildings and now they have naturally grown an apathy to something that has always been there. In many ways, humans respond this way to other particular in the world; for example, the scenery becomes nothing more than a background of where we live, and often we stop looking at beauty for what it is because we get use to it. I’ve lived all my life in the Midwest of the United States, which is basically the grain belt of the country, so it is very flat. I’ve always dreamed of living by the sea and/or the mountains. One summer during college, my college girlfriend visited my own, she wasn’t from around the area, and when she was there, she experienced a good Midwestern thunderstorm. She kept going on and on about how wondrous and magnificent was the lighting show on display on the prairie. She said that were she from it was too mountain-ness to see a lightning storm, and I was a bit shocked how I have seemed to have taken for granted such a spectacle.
I think there is wisdom to what my relative has surmised in Western Culture. I am reminded of the Ken Follet book “Pillars of the Earth.” The story centered around the building of a great Cathedral and the generations of lives it took to build such a magnificent building, it became an affair of the family and generations. When our church decided to build on to our existing Parish, the parish, of course, had a meeting about the finances. During the meeting, a woman stood up and declared from some sort of statistics that the parish membership was in decline, and we should just build a cost-effective building. I stood up and rejected her thoughts on the matter. I reminded her that money is temporal and that our goal was not to hoard it. I even invoked the reasoning of Kevin Costner, “If you build it, they will come.” A faith that builds is an active faith, a faith that preserves, often times burns slowly like a candle and eventually time will extinguish it.
I believe these are the feelings of my relative in the relationship of people of Western Culture to their churches—and perhaps there is some truth to it. I have a particular devotion to Pope St. John Paul II, and I am reminded of the Soviets purposely building a city called Nowa Huta in Poland for steel manufacturing which included no church “a first in the millennium long history of Poland.”[1] In fact, as Pope John Paul II biographer George Weigel writes, “Over the next four decades the exhaust from Nowa Huta’s steel mills would, literally, eat away at the fabric of Krakow.”[2]
The Ark Church would be consecrated by the future Pope John Paul II in May of 1977 in Nowa Huta after receiving a permit to finally build a church in 1967. Weigel articulates, “The Ark Church is a striking architectural metaphor: the people of the Church, gathered in a boat reminiscent of Noah’s ark and the fishing craft sailed by the apostles on the Sea of Galilee, are carried through the tempests of history.”[3]
There’s another beautiful church built in the area THE CHURCH OF OUR LADY OF CZĘSTOCHOWA. The construction of this particular church began in 1984 and it’s architecture blends both modern and classic themes in a sanctuary that reminds the faithful of both the sacred and the profane. [4]
It’s interesting how slow secularism has crept into Poland after an onslaught of both Nazism and Soviet powers. Perhaps, the blood of martyrs seeded the ground of Poland, but the newly seeded ground did have to rebuild either physical churches or their spiritualism. After all, arguably the most devout diocese in Europe resides in Poland—Tarnow.[5]
[1] George Weigel, City of Saints: A Pilgrimage to John Paul II’s Krakow (New York: Crown Publishing Group, 2015), 220.
[2] Ibid, 12.
[3] Ibid, 221-222.
[4] http://www.szklanedomy.cystersi.pl/our-lady-of-czestochowa-parish-krakow-poland/
[5] http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/4901/in_vibrantly_catholic_poland_growing_secularism_produces_new_challenges.aspx
The apostle Paul spoke of himself as a wise master builder and referred others who encouraged to build wisely on the foundation he had laid.
Yet none of them laid a brick or poured concrete!
They built up people and thriving communities of believing Christians who passed on their faith.
In my opinion what is required is a vast army of dedicated disciples intent of fulfilling the great commission. The available resources should be put to raising and equipping such folk for their mission.
Wherever this is the focus churches are growing – even in Europe. Some congregations committed in this way to the command of our Lord own no religious buildings, while others do – the difference in approach seems to be irrelevant to their growth.
I am currently in Spain where I have noted 2 evangelical churches both growing but following different alternatives as above. Far fewer than previously are attending Catholic Churches. A report I read stated that evangelical membership in Spain had risen from 1% to 8% of the population over the last few years.
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Indeed, I think even using Poland as an example, the persecution led to a renewal of faith as well physical buildings. A lot of what you say has truth. In the Midwest, Evangelicals are building large, but not aesthetically beautiful, churches with technology galore, but they are growing. I’m not asserting that Churches follow this model, as really I think the appeal is the newness and the involvement with creation–we are after made in the image of the creator.
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That’s rite good brother Rob. The unsaved look to brick and stones for their salvation. But gods house is built without human hands. And they want to know how I know who is unsaved.
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This is a hard area to write on, at least for me, so maybe pluck an example from your article.
“During the meeting, a woman stood up and declared from some sort of statistics that the parish membership was in decline, and we should just build a cost-effective building.”
Seems fairly obvious, but there is a question in there, effective at what? Keeping the rain and snow off us? Allowing us to hear the speaker? Allowing an effective Mass?, Or should it be all of those, plus Glorifying God? I suspect you know my answer.
Yesterday, we spoke of how the physical plant in Washington is rather awe inspiring. It is, and it is by design. But so are the great cathedrals, both here, and in Europe. That doesn’t mean we are stuck forever in Gothic, or Perpendicular, or whatever. It means that, even in our building, we must keep our mission in mind.
That’s one side, but it doesn’t have to be large either, one of the most awesome churches I’ve seen was the chapel at Valley Forge, maybe room for 200 people standing, solid stone, plain as a dissenter’s, except for the regimental banners overhead, but you could feel the Presence in it.
There is also an intimacy in a small chapel, that for me, allows me to talk with God, rather than the formality of the full liturgy (which I love).
I think you are right, we need all of them, because when we attend one or the other, we become immune to their power, and we need change to reawaken it.
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There is also the question of established churches. In the UK, CofE churches are treated as “public property”: people expect to get married in them, and to have baptisms and funerals conducted in those buildings, whether they turn up every Sunday or not. No non-Christian would willingly choose to get married in a 1970s Baptist build. People are romantic about old buildings, but whose buildings are they? I’m not providing a judgement on this issue, just pointing out that this is very complex.
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Me and my blushing bride are set up to get married in one of those C of E public churches. We want a regal building with ivey coverd front, so as to look splendid in our wedding photos.
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I don’t have an answer for that, either. It is a problem for an established church. That said, I fail to see why a non-Christians would choose to get married in a church, other than perhaps socio-economic reasons. It seems to me to be at best, false advertising.
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The whole thing makes me uncomfortable and I have no answer for it. This is an aspect of British culture that clashes with my rationalism.
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If the church is alive marriage in church it offers a point of contact to the gospel. A church I know of in South Africa saw hundreds of conversions offering marriage courses to engaged couples. Different society yes – but there are opportunities.
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I don’t either, Nicholas. I’ve often said that an established church hurts the church, whether it’s the CofE, both Evangelical and Catholic in Germany, or Catholics in other countries. I understand how it came about, but it lead to lousy doctrine.
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The C of E because it is the established Church of the land cannot refuse anyone who wishes to be baptized, married or buried accordig to the rites of that church. It has never bothered me as such. I’ve always taken the opportunity of teaching and explaining to people, regardless of their beliefs, what they are about. It is a valuable point of contact.
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Yes, that is precisely why I feel conflicted in the matter, because I see both sides of it. I suppose I am concerned about the general views of the population. I’ve no doubt that the priests do a good job of explaining things.
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Malcolm an example of Greg’s regular posts at ReKnew that may interest you:
http://reknew.org/2017/01/cross-shaped-transcendence/
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Rab,
Thanks for that. In the very first sentence Greg hits the nail on the head.
“Hellenistic philosophers traditionally embrace a conception of God as the simple, necessary, and immutable One. They do this in order to try to explain the “unmoved mover” who is absolutely distinct from the ever-changing, composite, contingent world. However, we must be clear that it is misguided for Christian theology to follow this path. If we define God’s essence over-and-against creation, we are defining God’s essence over-and-against Christ, the very one who is supposed to be the definitive revelation of God’s essence.”
The God of the Bible isn’t immutable. I’ve always found difficulties about an innmutable or unchanging Godhead.
The Prophet Hosea makes a statement that I find absolutely spot on.
My mind is turning over. My emotions are agitated all together.” (Hosea 11: 8) -(Anchor Bible translation)
Israel is found to be unfaithful. But God refuses to give her up. The world is unfaithful. But God refuses to give it up. God is caught in a dilemma. God is in distress, a distress sharpened by love. In that verse is hidden in the extraordinary story of God’s inner life.
The NASB translates the Hebrew thus – My heart is turned over within me. All my compassions are kindled.
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Exactly I have no illusions that God is either immutable or impassive. All we can know about Him is what He has revealed of Himself and ultimately in our Lord Jesus. To try and interpret scripture in Greek philosophical terms leads us astray. The text you quote are enough to dispel such fallacies.
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And yes, Malcolm, it can and should be used that way. Our clergy need to make use of every possible opportunity to pass the Message. In truth, a lot of American churches are the same, and in a way, I don’t think it a overly bad thing.
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Aye NEO. I’m sure that the Lord wishes us to use every opportunity to proclaim his truth even when folk are using the church’s rituals for their own convenience.
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Aye, and I think that ties back into why architecture is also important. Both kinds, that I spoke of before, as well as history.
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Interesting, thanks for bringing up the state Church and public property. I think it’s something that would never occur to Americans in passing conversation.
I suppose I would ask, and perhaps Malcolm can best answer this, is there a lot of government red tape for building CofE facilities?
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Philip Augustine
Th answer to your question is No. The government interferes very little with Church affairs. There is no red tape as such. Establishment is tied up with the Queen as titular Head of the Church… Henry VIII and all that.
Incidentally we get nothng from the government for the maintenance upkeep and repair of our churches and cathedrals. This is done by voluntary contributions from the public, especially as regards the cathedrals. It is the faithful worshppers who Sunday by Sunday who give of their bounty. The Church of England is self supporting.
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I definitely understand your point. I attended Latin Mass at a small diocese Gothic architecture church and the place is really a hidden gem. It’s small but beautiful. I think my point is not necessarily to build grandeur, but just to build. The process of building something is exciting and it generates interest from others. I think the point of my relative is that building is a form of evangelization.
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And he’s right, I think.
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I am currently searching the council of Trent. Do cathols really believe all that stuff?
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Any bits in particular giving you grief?
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I went to a site that said Trent says for images erected in the CC are to be worshiped. So befor I believed that, I wanted to see it for myself because lots of times anti catholics make up stuff and distort things.
Well about an hour searching I found it. It doesn’t say images are to be worshiped. It doesn’t use the word worship. It used the word venerate. The anti catholic site changed one word.
Words and their meanings can change with time and usage. Change in the minds of men. But as long as the meaning is agreed upon, its valid. Even though the websters definition of venerate also included worship, cathols use venerate as a type of honoring something or someone. The document goes on to say that images have no power and are not to be worshiped or thought of as having any power. Its in article 25 of the Council of Trent, if anyone is concerned.
I was reminded of the 49 articles of the C of E by a commenter in here as to what the Anglicans believe. So I searched for a similar document as to what Papist believe. I don’t know if the council of Trent has been relegated to the trash bin of history by the rulers of the CC or not.
Now, I will state that im the first one to declare that I don’t care about documents of men. But I love to point out hypocrisy in high places. Now Trent says that the images have no power. As if every catholic soul has read and memorized the document. So why does the top brass at the Vatican approve statues that do things, like come alive and move and grow and heal people. Oh, and cry. Believe me, I can understand why good sister Mary would cry.
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Such things are approved only when there is evidence.
I am glad you now admit we don’t worship idols. I look forward to your never mentioning it again.
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C – Hope springs eternal! But do not hold your breath on comments about worshiping idols.
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I don’t, but I like to think the best of people 🙂
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We all have idols in our lives, even me.
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There was me thinking you were an idol 🙂
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“how Christians, in light of the rise of the supremacy of the secular West, should look more to their commonalities than their differences.”
I skimmed thru the 49 articles of the C of E , a cursory reading, because im lazy.I found no fault with what I did read. Once again…..has every Anglican soul read and memorized the whole document and live by its every word?
So, if two people sat at dinner , one catholic and one Anglican , the only thing they have in common is Jesus is Lord of all. If they lived by every word of their articles of faith, the Anglican would wish good tidings to the Cathol , but the cathol , if he lived by his marching orders would pull out a gun and shoot the damnable protestant. Now, this statement might rile some readers up against me, but remember, I just got thru reading the Council of Trent , where I, Bosco the Immaculate and every other non cathol is considered “ananthema” , The document condemns every breath I take.
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I just skimmed the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it doesn’t seem to require me to inflict violence on protestants. Perhaps, you should read CCC 814-822 for your edification?
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The catechism is a watered down handbook for kids.
Council of Trent is the document that states what the CC is all about. Anyone who doesn’t believe every jot and tittle of catholic dogma is ananthema. Which means that person is an agent or tool of the Devil. We already know what the magnanimous CC did to people it thought were of the Devil…..or had land the bishop wanted.
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Bosco there are 39 articles. I’ve always taken them seriously, although they are open to interpretation. The major point is that they lead us to the Saviour Jesus Christ and he transcends their literal meaning wirh his Spiritual compassion and love.
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Well, like I said, when I skimmed over them I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, there was nothing new in them, but everything seemed to be in order.
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Our older churches – those still standing – are often beautiful places to stop, contemplate, pray and feel the presence of God. Not that you can’t feel Gods presence in more modern churches or even the local supermarket for that matter. However, I’m saddened by many of our grander churches and cathedrals here in the UK who now charge a significant sum to enter these buildings. I’ve certainly walked away from such churches in the past not because I couldn’t pay (although on one occasion I was a little short of funds) but because I think it wrong to charge entry. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking of these churches as being places of worship and should just accept that they are now merely money chasing tourist attractions with costumed staff willing to be photographed for the pleasure of visitors.
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Long ago, Jess spoke about this a bit, specifically at Canterbury, I think. If I remember, her conclusion was that the maintenance of these old buildings is astronomically expensive, which I’m sure is true. I’ve heard that some Tudor manors (not all that large, around 8000 square feet) cost upwards of 2000 pounds a week to merely maintain. She also thought (as do I) that this is better than completely expending church funds on it. She also noted that if you are attending a service, the admission doesn’t apply.
We don’t quibble at admission at the Tower or Hampton Court Palace, which would have the same problem else wise. Someone, somewhere has to pay for maintaining the physical plant.
In many ways, English cathedrals are more than churches, they are a living history of the Faith (and more) in the islands, so maybe we shouldn’t mind too much paying a bit to get in. Or at least, it wouldn’t bother me. I’d say you are very lucky to still have them, at any price.
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