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I have steered clear of the ongoing arguments over the Pope and his drizzle of comments about people being ‘rigid’; he’s entitled to his views, and I’m entitled to think they are unfortunate and best left not said. It was, you will remember, the rigid Pharisees who were in favour of the Mosaic law allowing divorce, and it was Jesus who rigidly insisted that divorce was not to be allowed; one wonders which ‘rigidity’ the Pope would condemn?
I daresay those English Catholics who refused to conform to what Henry VIII and Elizabeth demanded of Catholics were on the rigid side, and all that dying for the faith once received was undoubtedly a sign of an unwillingness to make the sort of compromises that the non-rigid find comes naturally. I’m even of the view that there is a patron saint of the rigid – that would be St Athanasius, who kept insisting that the Nicene Creed was not for changing.
We need to be more careful than painting with such broad brush-strokes suggests. The idea that all those who insist on rigidity are justified by the example of St Athanasius is a dangerous one, and one can only wonder how many small-minded men insisting that man was made for the sabbath have called that courageous saint in aid? Mercy and love are the marks of God, and to condemn might be a sign of narrow-mindedness; context matters. This is not to argue for situational ethics, but it is to assert the right of the Church to decide whether an individual sinner is in the wrong. Indeed, I suspect many readers would be much happier if the Pope would make a decision on the issues raised by the dubia. He says he likes an argument, and I am sure we’d all love him to continue it.
There is a type of Catholicism which seems unable to distinguish between the ball and the man – to criticise an individual by insulting him is often done, but frequency does not make something right. Telling loyal subordinates that they are not working for the institution when they know they are is to creates poor atmosphere- so let’s hope the Pope remembers someone asking ‘who am I to judge?’
There are so many complex issues facing the Church and in many ways Pope Francis is in a no win situation. Its my view that he is steering the ship with grace and wisdom.
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Yes. Much grace and wisdom lies hidden in his poop-gate language I am sure. 🙂
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Thank you, Malcolm – hope all is well with you.
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It is my view that he is steering the church into an Heretical Schism by is blunders,ambiguities and outright lies and obfuscation!
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Agree.
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Indeed, C, every Catholic martyr is an example of “rigidity” to Truth and principle. If not for this “rigidity” our liturgicsl calendars would be empty and there would scarcely be a hero or heroine of the faith left for our edification.
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In fact today is the Feast Day of St. John of the Cross. I wonder if he would have been a saint had he been indifferent to the problems in the Carmelite order which caused him to be imprisoned and gave us the basic poems that his writings later elucidated. Nay he was rigid in his beliefs and suffered for those beliefs. A very good and rigid Catholic that reformed Carmelite spirituality along with St. Teresa of Avilla. St. John of the Cross, ora pro nobis.
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aaaaaARE YOU GOING TO BAKE A PUMKIN PIE AND A TURKEY FOR THIS FEAST DAY OF jUHN THE WHATEVER.
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to criticise an individual by insulting him is often done, but frequency does not make something right.
Like calling me names? Or that doesn’t count because im a heretic.
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The only name I call you appertains to your habit of telling lies about the Church.
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Well, I must keep in mind the tone and context of which the term “rigid” was used. It is a term I think is very partisan, which by its nature is inappropriate for the head of the Catholic Church to be. But this isn’t the first inappropriate thing our Holy Father has said.
There are those who are thrilled with his methods of dissemination of misleading speech, especially the gaffs and blunders let loose upon the faithful from press scrums in airplanes. It is deliberate. It is supposed to be some type of Ignatian spirituality of discernment, but having read the Saint’s writings, Ignatius doesn’t propose anywhere a method of blurring the lines between right and wrong or good and evil so as to find one’s way to a superior moral ground where nothing is set in stone. Quite the opposite is the truth. In fact, genuine Ignatian spirituality is meant to aid the individual in discerning the Truth and one’s own place on the Way in which the Life is lived to and thru Christ that leads to Heaven. It doesn’t have anything to do with the discernment that Pope Francis asserts is the real reason behind all his confusing and fuzzy speech. The tools offered by St. Ignatius that are a method of genuine discernment when applied give the person such a clarity of vision along with a firm purpose of amendment that the person is transformed into another soldier for Christ. Once applied, his methods correct and focus the inquirer in a manner quite unique. This is the reason for hundreds of years the Jesuits have been the masters of retreats that do help a person discern his or her own correct path in life with razor-like precision. People sought them out for such reasons. You went there to find yourself in Christ. Pope Francis keeps insisting that his tragic ambiguities are things needed to discern the truth however, that Truth is a person who is changeless and the heart of the real discernment of all Ignatian spirituality. Immutability. It is not found in fuzzy ways. That is the goal of all discernment they foster, to lead one to Christ, not away. Deliberately obscuring the truth to make people think and talk and grapple towards that goal is misdirection and certainly not what Ignatius meant for any of those who follow him or look to him for spiritual direction. Pope Francis detracts from him. It is a shame. It will get worse.
Think immutability. That is really what Francis is up against. The immutability of God. He prefers a more fluid way of seeing Him, but God not fluid. It is ridiculous actually and sad.
On another note, I feel myself among those he meant when he labeled a whole bunch of the sheep in the fold “rigid.” I think of it more in terms of having my face set like flint. Isaiah 50:7 – The Lord GOD is my help, therefore I am not disgraced; therefore I have set my face like flint, knowing that I shall not be put to shame. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Christ is the rock upon which the Catholic Faith rests . . . rigid and firm and not made of silly putty. This is the stuff of a sound foundation for both the faith and our spiritual lives . . . built upon that rigid rock which is Christ and not upon sand.
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Cheesburgers?
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Meatballs and Spaghetti.
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OK!
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The CC says good brother Peter is the rock yhe CC is built on. Cathols don’t agree on anything, well, somethings.
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Well, C you ask; “one wonders which ‘rigidity’ the Pope would condemn?” Being that the whole controversy of AL is about Jesus and Church teaching being too rigid, IMHO, there is no doubt that it’s Jesus’ rigidity that the Pope condemns.
“This is not to argue for situational ethics, but it is to assert the right of the Church to decide whether an individual sinner is in the wrong.” But, AL states that the individual priest and the penitent makes that determination. Not the Church. This is a big change in Church teaching.
And I whole heartily agree with your condemnation of the Pope and his minions trying to shame the four Cardinals into line. A very poor atmosphere indeed!
I thank you for writing this post. I told you I would most definitely read it, and did. Pope Francis is out on a limb. He has never been one to explain himself, so I don’t see it happening in this case. Another Pope will have to set the Church straight. The Pope keeps moving farther from Christ and Truth.
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As the saga continues: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/5275/crux_author_dissenters_from_al_are_predominantly_wealthy_lay_people_fixated_on_reason.aspx
Just a little article by Carl Olson about all that has happened since November 28, 2016.
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And, drum roll please, the answers to the dubia! http://www.onepeterfive.com/five-words-that-would-calm-the-storm/
Lord have mercy! Christ have mercy! Lord have mercy!
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I’d say that the Pope is correct to oppose people being, at least in part, ‘rigid’.
Catholic clergymen have taken a vow of celibacy – any rigidity below the waist and above the knees can only lead to temptation which in turn leads to sin.
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Now now good brother Jock, You mustn’t talk about catholic priests in that manner. They are priests of god and took a solemn oath to be celibate therefor they are celibate and godly and they hold up the bible and wave it around and kiss it. They are little Christs and god obeys the catholic priest, because they are so holy and celibate. So there.
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Bosco, who told you God obeys priests? Or is this another of the things you found on the internet?
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“It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. For, while the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, THE PRIEST BRINGS CHRIST DOWN FROM HEAVEN, AND RENDERS HIM PRESENT ON OUR ALTAR AS THE ETERNAL VICTIM FOR THE SINS OF MAN – NOT ONCE BUT A THOUSAND TIMES! THE PRIEST SPEAKS AND LO! CHRIST THE ETERNAL AND OMNIPOTENT GOD, BOWS HIS HEAD IN HUMBLE OBEDIENCE TO THE PRIEST’S COMMAND.”
Faith of Millions”, John O’Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., 268-269, “nihil obstat” by Rev. T. E. Dillon-Censor Librorum and “imprimatur” by John Francis Noll, D.D. -Bishop of Fort Wayne.
You see, priests are so wonderful and holy that god obeys them.
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Poor Bosco, it must be hard being so thick. This refers to one area – the way in which, as Jesus promised, the bread and wine become his body and blood. There is nothing here about anything else.
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Only a catholic priest can do it. Therefor I, Bosco, am outside of salvation because I don’t go to catholic church services. Woe is me.
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No one is beyond salvation – but you deliberately put yourself in the position of those who mock what Jesus said, that the bread and wine would become his body and blood – so yes, woe is you.
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You mistake me for someone else. I never said the wine and bread wasn’t Jesus body and blood. What I have said was that communion doesn’t guarantee one a place in heaven.
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No one ever said it did – did they? If you can point me to one place where the Church says communion is a guarantee of a place in Heaven, I’ll be grateful. if you can’t, will you stop implying it does?
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Ill get back to you on that one.
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That would be good
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Communion is an intimate encounter with Christ, in which we sacramentally receive Christ into our bodies, that we may be more completely assimilated into his. “The Eucharist builds the Church,” as Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC 1396).
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion
This goes on to quote Jesus, as ive heard every catholic person tell me……..”This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever” (John 6:53–58).
At first glance, it looks as though eating Jesus body makes one live forever(in heaven).
This is a hard saying.Just look at how the CC has handled it. But the born again know that the Bread of Life is the Words of Jesus. Some things need to be understood by being born again, not through some philosophy by men. Its just that simple. Matt 16 for example….its twisting and omission of the entire paragraph is responsible for sending billions of souls to the Lake of Fire. This is not just some misunderstanding. It is blasphemy in the highest and is part of the 5% poison in the doctrine that kills.
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So, you don’t believe Jesus, but like the others John records, you walk away from him. Like Peter, I believe Jesus meant what he said. He instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper, and his Church continues to believe what he said.
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The priest says:
Hoc est corpus meum, he has to say it for the validity of the consecration. Meum! But
it is not he who says these words; his voice indeed we hear, but he is only the
instrument of the Sovereign Priest: our Lord speaks through His minister.
This is where we get :Hocus Pocus”. Magical words to magically make thing appear. Its used in magic acts all over the world.
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Indeed, and so, the priest does not really command God. We het ‘hocus pocus’ from ignorant thickos mocking Jesus – sorry you number yourself among them/
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How come no two cathols never agree on anything? Faith of the Millions says the priest commands god….but you say the priest doesn’t command god.
I just let Jesus do my battle for me. I don’t think. I let Jesus think for me.
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Most Catholics agree on most things – you can’t have it both ways, however hard you try. On the one hand you criticise us for being brain-washed idolators, on the other for healthy disagreements. Sounds like you’re quite confused – as usual?
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Ive never called cathols brain washed. People make a conscious choice to believe in that religion. And people have to make a conscious choice to ask Jesus to come into them. But yes, I always call idolatrous cathols idolaters. Come to my idolatrous site and see cathols in their natural habitat
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
Come in, kick yer feet up and relax. Sign in and become a member.
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Again, your claim to know what is in men’s minds from a picture makes me wonder who inspires you; did Jesus judge by appearances? Do those who talk with him and hear him not follow his example?
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Judging from appearance is looking at the clothes and other features.
When I see someone kneeling befor a image made by human hands, I see someone bowing befor an image made by human hands. Well, you know, it is possible that they dropped their contact lense and are looking for it. Good brother Chalcedon, are you suggesting those people who are bowing and kneeling befor images of stone and wood aren’t bowing befor them, and that im not seeing what im seeing?
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I am suggesting that bowing is not the same as worship. If I am introduced to the Queen, I bow to her. If you think that means I am worshipping her then you’re a bit odd.
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I forgot to reference my referable site
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
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“For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened … and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding Him up to contempt”. (Hebrews 6:6; The New American Bible, Catholic Bible Press, 1986)
By the way, even your own bible condemns recrucifying Jesus over and over again. Incantations to make Jesus appear on stage is Witchcraft….plain and simple.
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PS….in case you forgot…Vaticanus Hill is the traditional site of diviners (Witches). And it is inhabited by witches till this day.
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You have proof do you? Not another of those fake news sites to which you seem sadly addicted?
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Let’s look at the etymology of the name ‘Vaticanus’. Varro, in the I century BC, believed that ‘Vaticanus’ came from the name of a god, Deus Vaticanus, protector of the lands, inspirer of prophetic powers (hence ‘vaticinium’= prophecy). Originally, this word probably derived from the Etruscan name of a pre-Roman settlement on the hill, which must have been ‘Vatica’, or ‘Vaticum’, of which all trace is lost.
By looking at the history of this hill, we cannot fail to notice the fact that since the early days of Rome it has been a place connected with the divine in all its aspects: the god Vaticanus, the emperors, who considered themselves as living gods, and later the Christian martyrs such as Saint Peter witnessing to the One True God.
http://eternalcityeducation.com/blog/vatican-christianity/
The author, himself a cathol, waters down and brushes over the fact that diviners lived and worked on that hill. He does mention that the spirit of the divine lives there. But he, like other cathols who rely on the rituals and divination of its Pontif, to make you right with god, believe that Satan moved off of that hill and now the Holy Spirit has moved in. Just like cathols sweep away all the Babylonian symbols and priestly costumes as now belonging to Christ.
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I suppose it’s hard for someone living in a relatively new country to appreciate that names of places date back to when they were settled. I live in a place named after a Saxon god – doesn’t mean I worship him.
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Of course. Now its know amongst the born again that cer6tain places have demon spirits. Not everyone believes this. Vaticanus Hill was where the sayers and diviners worked. Witchcraft. Now, its inhabited by sayers and a group of people who claim to have the only hot line to god. Same show, different year. No one is blaming you for that dear brother. You need to be warned. Now you cant say to the King that you didn’t know and no one warned you.
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It is usual to offer evidence – but that will be hard for you, so perhaps something from your usual fake news sights would do?
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Again, you misunderstand. No one, except silly anti-Catholic website frequented by saddos says we crucify Jesus again and again. The Church’s book says the sacrifice was once and for all – that’s what we believe.
You know, it would be real nice if, for once, you were accurate about the Church – just for once.
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The Mass is called an unbloody sacrifice to clarify the fact that we do not behold the Lord’s bloody body as it was seen on Calvary. Instead his body and blood are under the appearances of bread and wine. But it is the same sacrifice.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-is-the-mass-called-the-unbloody-sacrifice-of-our-lord-on-his-cross
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So why did you say it was crucifying him again? That would have been a bloody sacrifice. Do you actually think before you write, or are you a random word generator?
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Those aren’t my words. I cut and pasted that without any comment.
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It says clearly that it is the same sacrifice not a repeat of it. Not doing well on your reading today. You know that God is calling you to his church.
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He very well could be old friend.
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The Mass is the same sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross because in the Mass the victim is the same, and the principal priest is the same, Jesus Christ.
(a) Christ, though invisible, is the principal minister, offering Himself in the Mass. The priest is the visible and secondary minister, offering Christ in the Mass.
https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchb1a.htm
The first thing that pops into my misguided head is this….is the mass service valid and does god obey the priest if hes a wild eyed vile child rapist?
That question was answered for me a few times. The answer was…yes, god still comes down from heaven as commanded because he acknowledged the incaantations of the priest and the office of the priest.
Im sure that answer was generated by the need for cathols to have salvation handed out by a priest. If the mass was invaled hardly a catholic soul would have salvation.
This is catholic dogma, not reality.
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So, you think God is not all powerful and cannot impart himself in the sacraments despite a sinful priest? You have the oddest idea of God.
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I don’t believe in or follow these sacraments. For one….they are not mentioned in scripture. For two…. I let Jesus worry about things.
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So, when Jesus says ‘this is my body’ he didn’t mean it? Was he joking perhaps? You seem to need to explain away the plain words of Jesus.
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I believe when someone does communion the bread and wine are His body. Ive always said that. its just to remember his sacrifice. Its not some all important ritual that one has to do to gain favor with the Almighty. Since you religious people don’t know the Lord from Adam, you substitute rituals as a way of, uh, come to think of it, I don’t know whats running thru you alls minds when you do these rituals.
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So, bread and wine changing into the body and blood is something you can do and anyone can do – really? Is that why Paul says those who eat unworthily do so to their own destruction?
The problem with your home-made religion is it is based on a feeling that you know Jesus. It has nothing to do with what Christians have believed for two thousand years, or with what Jesus said in the Bible.
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Oh, said Simple Simone to the Pieman
Now im getting some were.
Now I have it in black and white that you insist only a priest of Dagon can change bread into Jesus body.
Growing up, me and my friends were horrible children. If we caught an adult being a weirdo we let him have it with both barrels. Our families were normal and we grew up on TV shows that had good triumph over evil.We would chase a car that would come around a second time as we played in the street. Chase him and yell at him and expose him and heaven help him if we found where he lived.
Now I have you in my sights. You just said that a regular person cant do communion because he or she doesn’t have the power to change bread into Jesus body. Im gonna tear into you like a pitbull. You and your holymen. They have powers that you and me don’t have. They can summon god down from heaven, when they are not having sex with 5 yr old boys. Jesus said as oft as ye do this, think of me. He didn’t say that we needed a costume holyman to perform a magic act on the bread to change it to His body. That’s what Catholicism is…a freaking dog and pony magic act and you dummykaumphs sit there and fall for it. What a bunch of morons you suckers are. Its not a honest mistake. It winds people up in the lake of fire for eternity. You trust your salvation to pedophiles and you reap what you sow. “Oh, we need our money grubbing kiddie fiddlers to bring god down from heaven so we can see him and gawk at him and maybe go to heaven because we ate him because the kiddie fiddler changed the cracker into His body.”
Oh yes, our pedophiles have special powers.
Men are men and they put their pants on one leg at a time, unless youre a catholic holyman and youput your dress on both legs at a time.
Freaking false nutty religions. Whats worster is the boneheads that belong to them.
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Could you translate into English?
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