Yesterday I was privileged to attend Mass for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Of all the things which people ignorant of history say about the Catholic Church say, the thing I understand the least is the allegation that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. No, we worship God, we don;t worship human beings. Quite why this is so hard to understand escapes me. Perhaps modern Westerners no longer understand language and its ranges and nuances, or perhaps some people don’t want to, or perhaps they just think they understand what people believe better than the people concerned. The whole dogma of the Immaculate Conception is proof no one worships Our Lady.
People sometimes get mixed up and suppose that it has something to do with the Virgin birth. It doesn’t, of course. What it does refer to is the very fact that Our Lady herself, as a human being, needed to be saved from the consequences of sin by her Son. I suppose there are some odd Christians who suppose that God is not omnipotent and cannot do anything, but Catholics are not among them. Clearly Our Lord was without sin, we know this from Scripture. Yet, since he was fully human (as well as fully divine) he ought to have inherited the effects of Original Sin – all humans have done so, so how could Our Lord be fully human and not have inherited its effects? That’s where the dogma of the Immaculate Conception comes in. Our Lady was, from the moment of her conception, redeemed from the effects of Original Sin by her Son. If you think God could not do that, I’m not quite sure what sort of God you believe in, but it’s not the God revealed in Scripture.
Of course, if you confuse ‘Immaculate Conception’ with ‘Impeccability’ you’ll find yourself in trouble. Being redeemed from the effects of Original Sin does not mean that in her life Our Lady made no mistakes or did nothing wrong – although, since Scripture records no such moments, I am free to believe, as I do, that she was indeed free of such human errors; but not being Immaculately conceived, I may be wrong, and may be misled by the love I have for the mother of my Saviour. But I’m happy to be misled in that way. What I don’t do, is mislead others and claim that Catholics worship anyone except God.
I do find it hard to understand how anyone could not love the Virgin Mary we meet in Scripture. The simple girl who accepted the task she was given by God; and example ti us all in terms of obedience. The tender mother who nursed and loved her special Son. The mother who stayed with him to the bitter end. The mother who knew him resurrected and as her – and our -redeemer. I can’t see what is not to love. Perhaps there is some misogyny there? Perhaps people don’t understand the difference between worshipping Our One Redeemer and calling His mother blessed? If you tell me you know better than me what I believe and that if, to you, my veneration looks like worship, I can only reply that your comment looks like idiocy. But who knows, and frankly, who cares? People believe the oddest things when they want not to see what is simplicity itself – which is that those of us who confess our faith in the Lord, the Redeemer of mankind, love that lowly maiden who bore Him. We love the Son and the mother; how can one not? A mystery to be sure. But as I prayed at Mass last night, I knew she was listening, and I thanked her for all she has done for me. That was what people call gratitude, it was not worship.
All Along the Watchtower 
The immaculate conception was the first incarnated fruit of the Cross. Hidden in the womb of St Ann a child came into being free from the power of sin. Light was concealed in darkness but it was real light and it meant that the dominion of satan was no longer complete. Like a Christian in North Korea praying in secret before a crucifix it was not an abstract truth but a real world defiance of darkness and a tilting of the balance towards God and His kingdom.
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Im sure Mary was a nice person. She was just a pawn in the game. The blasphemous catholic church claims she battles Satan and is queen of heaven. That’s not why you religious people will wake up in hell fire. You will wake up in hell because you believed the Satanic catholic church instead of asking Jesus to come in and sup with you.
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You say you are not anti-Catholic, yet you call the Church Jesus founded ‘satanic’ – could you run that by me again and make it make sense this time?
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SOME RELIGIONS ARE JUST ODD AND SOME JUST A BUNCH OF NOTHING. There are a few that are downrite Satanic. I bought this Halloween ornament, its a skeleton in a cage, compliments of the catholic churchs inquisition. Your priests would accuse someone of heresy and on form of torture was to put them in a cage and let them starve to death and rot until they were just a skeleton in a cage. The most inhuman forms of torture came out of your beloved religion.Torture I don’t even like to think about or talk about. Then there was the ever present good old tried and true burning people alive. And you actually wonder why me and millions of people consider the CC satanic? I visited a catholic torture chamber in Italy I believe, and I ran out after about 2 mins because I was going to vomit. Seeing the things they used on people was just beyond nightmarish. A hard rain is gonna fall on the CC. God is not mocked….a man reaps what he sows. My only consolation is that those torturers and all concerned….priests and popes….are in everlasting torment. And its rare for me to wish hell on anybody. Your priests and popes and nuns are supposed to be godly people with hotlines to god, with their hands all folded in prayer….at least in their photo ops. So why are they all in hell en mass?
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Your ignorance is endless. In the past governments did dreadful things to people – it had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the standards of the age. This may be hard for one so ignorant of history to realise, so there is no charge for the lesson.
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Thanks friend
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ONE scripture, just one little scripture saying Mary is co redeemer or anything, born without sin, or a virgin….anything…..just one scripture saying any of this, and ill capitulate. Scripture is clear Jesus had brothers and sisters. But you who go to the grave hate scripture.
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I keep asking you for one Scripture verse telling me what books are in Scripture- you can’t give me a single verse. We got the book from the same place that tells us all about the Blessed Virgin – the Church founded by her Son.
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OK, and that book the magnanomus church gave us says Jesus had sibblings. And it has nothing about mediatrix or that she does battle with Satan or she flew up to heaven or was sinless. Nnothing. The books were written by different people. Why would they know that they even would be put into a book. That’s not a sane question to ask where in bible are all the books mentioned. They were gathered and put together. My god put them together. Do you want to give some men credit? I bet you do. Men, you love the things of men. Now, ive answerd your question….now you can inform me where Mariology is in bible. Seems like you don’t want to pen the words…”its nowhere in scripture”
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You don’t get it do you? You say everything had to be in the Bible, yet the Bible does not reference itself, so why should we adopt your odd methods? The Church tells us what books are in the Bible and it tells us about Mary.
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Oooohhh Ok. The church tells you about Mary. Well, I can see why catholic devotees believe the church. After all, it is the religion they subscribe to. Even if it is contrary to scripture, that’s no problem. My friend told me, not even an hour ago, that he enjoyed his catholic upbringing, and didn’t care that the same service was done on the same day of every year. I didn’t know that. I think 3 yr cycles he said. Well, I said that that was innocent enough. But I had bigger probs with catholic doctrine. He still believes some Mary is up there whos gonna let him into heaven over the objections of that big mean ol god.
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You say it is counter to Scripture, but since we owe Scripture to the Church, you seem to be suggesting that you know more than the Church – which seems a trifle arrogance, don’t you think!
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Poor Bosco. You know out here in the midwest we used to have a saying about people like him, something about finding a corner in a round barn.
Veneration of Mary was an established practice long before the Bible was canonized by the church. Therefore there was no reason to write about it. The practice was widespread by the 2d century if I remember, including the Magnificant. One of the things we share, all around the world. The canon was accepted in the early fourth, by the church he so rails against.
Of course, his beloved King James Version is the most common one used in American liturgical churches, and the Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition not all that far behind. I like both, although I do prefer the language of the KJV.
Gets a bit tiresome watching you bang your head on the brick wall that constitutes Bosco’s mind, but maybe a few others will learn.
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Thanks, Neo. I doubt anything less than the power of the Spirit is going to change Bosco’s mind.
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Nor, sadly, do I. But it gets lonely fighting alone.
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Do I know more than your church? I know Jesus. He does battle for me. Now about the state killing people on behalf of the CC…..the CC appointed the state rulers and they obeyed the CC. You know this good brother Chalcedon. You must think im stupid.im having typing probs. But that’s not why people go to hell. They go to hell because they didn’t feel the need to ask Jesus to come in and sup with them. They were told eting the cracker was going to save them. its your fault for believing thatt.\\
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No, the Church did not appoint them
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Did I feel the need for Jesus in my life?
Yes.
I was searching, but I thought I found it by singing in the choir. That outta satisfy god. I wanted to balance my worldly rock and roll and godly stuff so as to hedge my bets. Did I want to become a holy roller? Hell no. he took me any way. Now you guys have to hear what I have to say, like it or not. Do I wish I was unsaved? Never. I love knowing Jesus.
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You have emotional needs – you have convinced yourself Jesus is meeting them. The problem is that almost nothing you say has any connection with what billions of those of us who worship Jesus have known for nearly two thousand years. Now it may be billions are wrong and your need for emotional consolation is correct … but it isn’t likely.
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Good brother Neo, he needs Jesus. He says bible didn’t need to talk about the coredeemer Mary, the queen of heaven who battles satan gives us grace. You bible haters will have your place in the lake that burneth with fire.
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There you go again – lying. No one hates the Bible. You resort to lies and harshness – not signs that Jesus inspires your words.
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You wont understand until you know the Lord. By saying the bible isn’t enough or isn’t complete means you hate it. Its not good enough.Your church calls it a dead letter. Your priests pick up the bible and wave it around for show and kiss it but they don’t believe one gat damned word of it. Its a show. If you believed any of it you wouldn’t belong to a graven image cult of the queen of heaven. Even when I was unsaved I knew graven images were pagan. But, 1.2 billion people are in it. Some people are attracted to the pageantry and big fish hats and flowing robes. Don’t feel bad. When you get born again you will get up and out of that.
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Same old lies. No, whatever you extracted from some ancient anti- Catholic text, we don’t think the Bible is dead and we, unlike you, believe Jesus when he said he founded a church on Peter’s faith, and when it says all generations will call Mary blessed. We also understand that the commandment forbids worshipping images, which is why we don’t- so sorry you keep repeating the lies – no one except you and a few tin-foil hatters believes a word of them.
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ok, you win
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Theres a little something you good people are overlooking. I know Jesus personally. And there is no Mary queen of anything.
IT would behoove you to ask Jesus to show himself to you also.
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You have emotional issues – its sweet you feel Jesus meets them – but there’s little sign he inspires what you say.
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