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Gene Veith of Cranach reported an article the other day by Mathew Block, Communications Director of the Lutheran Church of Canada. I think it has bearing on the ongoing dialogue with Bosco, in which as we all know, he continually inveighs against the Church, usually the Catholic Church specifically, but in truth, all churches. Most of us realize as Chalcedon has said many times, “Christ founded a church”. And he did, Chalcedon’s definition differs a bit from mine as a Lutheran, but as America came from a reformed Great Britain, so too did Lutheranism come from a reformed Catholic Church. You could say much the same for all the other churches, in some form or another. We all hold some truths self-evident, for instance:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
That’s all that is required to be a Christian really. All the rest is mostly about how to live that Creed, which we all do imperfectly.
But Veith’s opening perfectly summarizes Bosco, and probably many like him. “[…] He argues that part of the problem is a misunderstanding of the authority of the Bible. People say the Bible is their authority, then consider that to be a license to interpret scripture any way they want to. Instead of sola scriptura, we have solo scriptura.”
Block makes several points, which are applicable here.
Because they privilege their own personal understanding of Scripture over the historic witness of the Church, it’s not surprising that Evangelicals deny that their congregation should have any meaningful authority over them: For example, 57 percent denied that their local church should have “the authority to withhold the Lord’s Supper from me and exclude me from the fellowship of the church.” In other words, Evangelicals believe the Bible is authoritative; and that authority is mediated by individual believers, rather than the church (even though the Bible explicitly says that authority is to be exercised by the church—e.g., Matthew 18:15-17, 1 Corinthians 5:11-13, Titus 3:10-11, etc.) […]
If instead we ignore the ways in which the Church has expressed its beliefs—if we ignore the ways in which God has shaped the faith of the Church historic through His Word—then we are really denying that the Scriptures are authoritative at all. We are in effect saying that we do not trust God’s Word to have acted on any Christians other than ourselves. Instead, we are elevating ourselves—our own hearts—as the ultimate judge, both over Scripture and the God who has shared that Word with the Church down through history. And that is heresy of the highest degree.
via: EVANGELICALS, HERESY, AND SCRIPTURE ALONE. Do read the whole thing.
I’m reminded that the Rev Dr. Martin Luther in his Homily for Trinity XIX, Church Postils said that, “God does not desire the Christian to live for himself.” I also doubt that he really intended us to live by ourselves either, without the community to keep us in check, and our pastors should be of large account in that community, otherwise we will undoubtedly come to see ourself as the final authority, supplanting God Himself in that role. And that is always the sin of pride showing itself.
There is something else here also, that G.K. Chesterton phrased far better than I can.
Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.
Hmm. It seems to me that you are making a sweeping statement about all Evangelicals here. I certainly do not discount the authority of the church nor as an evangelical Pentecostal Pastor do I teach the people God has placed alongside me that they are an authority unto themselves. I will grant that is a pernicious doctrine that is creeping into the church but I think it has more to do the blending of worldly Western mindsets with church doctrine rather than what the church has taught or our doctrine…not all Evangelicals are church haters or rebels.
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Yeah, I know, not least because Lutherans identify as Evangelicals too.
It’s a function of space, the linked article spoke to that some.
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I can understand that. Most times preaching all sides of a matter in a twenty minute sermon is impossible. So I shouldn’t be surprised it can’t be done in under a thousand words. 🙂
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Yeah, and as you know, I can get pretty wordy on my own, as well. 🙂
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Authority over the saints is not what Mat 18;15 is saying. It says we are to deal with an errant person personally. And if he refuses, bring a couple of people to talk to him or her. Then if that doesn’t work, then go to the congregation and let them have it out with him or her.
The unsaved don’t know which end to blow into. They accuse me of thinking the bible is my authority. The bible is just a collection of words. And those words speak of Jesus. The saved just follow the Shepherd. He does battle for us. The unsaved can never get that thru their thick skulls.
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If we are going to address the rise of heresy in our churches, then Christians must rededicate themselves to reading the Bible in community—with the local church, yes, but also with the Church throughout history
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2016/10/evangelicals-heresy-and-scripture-alone
Group think. Think like us. (;-D
The saved are taught by one person….the Holy Ghost, and he is the same for every born again person. These group think religious people cant stand that the saved don’t give a rats nether region about their idiot religions.
I love it.
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Hey Boscoe,
I once was at a gathering of pastors in the city where I served as a pastor. One of the pastors was saying a very similar thing to what you are saying: “I don’t need anyone to teach me anything about Christ, because I have the Holy Spirit and He teaches me all things.”
I asked him “if you truly believe that all any believer needs is the Holy Spirit to teach them, why do you preach every Sunday? Certainly your people don’t need to hear anything you have to say, or am I missing something?” We all laughed about it, but we all got the point.
So I think it is both. Clearly. If pastors and teachers are not part of God’s plan to equip his people, why did God ordain them to be so?
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Aye hows it goin buddy/
Great question to ask me. I never talk about teaching , why, because people need to be saved befor they worry about sound doctrine. No one has ever asked me if I learn from other people. They just accuse me of this and that and that makes them feel better about themselves. I get great insight into the scriptures from born again pastors. They were ordained by the holy ghost to be there.
Teaching is a term that I don’t think the born again use the same way the unsaved use it. What is there to teach?
When I hear someone use the word teach in conjunction with spirituality, I see in my mind people sitting around and someone up in front of the room telling them things they didn’t know and the class writing things down and going…Ooohh..ahhhhh, I didn’t know that.
Now, for the most part, the saved pretty much know all the important scripture, if they bother to read it and have been born long enough. We all have our eyes opend and we all know the same person. Pastors and elder born again people can give insight into scripture, not so much teach them anything. Teaching implies that one is telling someone things and the student is there to believe everything he or she is taught. The saved know to search the scriptures to see if it is so. Plus, the spirit in them will confirm or reject things. We are not given the spirit of confusion.
I tell these things to my friends in here and it just serves to enrage them further. I love it.
I get some kind of sick thrill watching these people in here yell “church teaching, church teaching” all day every day. You know? I calmly tell them that their church teaching includes using images to aid their spiritual life. And that some queen of heaven is going to save them or pray for them at the hr of their demise.
The formula for rat poison is….95% good tasty food and 5% poison. Its kills the soul. When I tell them this, it enrages them further.
Good brother Jim, I charge you to also tell our friends here the same truths, you being a pastor of souls. Don’t stand by and smile and wave as these dear souls cling to some female deity. The least you can do is warn them. Its your job as a watchman.
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Yes a good post but I think the criticism would be untrue of most teacher and pastors in evangelical circles. So can not give the whole thing a ‘like’.
Church is a particularly strong emphasis for Anabaptist and all those Evangelical Christians identifying with that tradition.
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I can easily understand that, but it does fit with what I see here (in the midwest), not to mention Bosco’s unceasing nonsense.
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Preaching of the cross to them who perish is foolishness.
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“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.”
3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths
One doesn’t find many myths in the protestant sector. But walk down the street to the cathol sector and there are myths aplenty. When asked, they say…everything we need to know isn’t in the bible. And if asked why their myths contradict the bible, then you are a bad person and don’t understand anything or worster yet, you don’t understand the CC. Infallability, economy of images, assumption of Mary, Pontifex maximus, no salvation outside the Cc. One is a bad person if one doesn’t believe these extra and contrary to biblical beliefs.
I love it.
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