God is Infinite; we are not. That being so, it is natural that two things follow: we do not fully comprehend Him; and we tend to emphasise the parts of Him that seem most relevant to us. To these limitations, we can add our own sinful natures. Little wonder that we need Christ to save us and to show us more clearly who God is. But even there we have to be careful of our own limitations. Christ spoke in hyperbole at times. For example, if my right eye happened to catch a rather fetching young lady and my thoughts turned in a direction they should not have as a result, then should I actually do what the Lord says in Matthew 5:29? As I look round, I see no one with gouged out right eyes, so I assume either that everyone is utterly immune from the temptations which sight can bring, or that we are, and we all understand that what Jesus is really saying is not ‘rip your eye out’ but that we should exercise caution and be aware of occasions of sin. But if anyone wants to be a literalist here, let me know and I can recommend help.
If we are not literalists here, why are we about, say, Matthew 25:31-33 or Luke 13:24? Well, few of us would feel that we wanted to rip out our right eye, but many would feel more comfortable with the idea that whilst they, following the narrow way, were going to be saved, many others – those sinners over there, who I am not like – were going to get the just desserts for their sinful ways; that is a part of our fallen human nature. It is less clear, or so it seems to me, that Jesus thought this way. His strictures towards those who did, indeed, think of themselves as being better than that sinner over there are clear from Luke 18:9-14. The Law of Moses was absolutely literal about the penalty for being caught in adultery (Lev 20:10; Deut. 22:20) and it was precisely for that reason that the Pharisees thought they would catch Jesus out by bringing the woman caught in adultery to Him. Tired of his preaching of mercy and love, they presented him with a case which they thought would oblige him either to abandon that teaching, or to clearly break the Law; either way, they would have been able to discredit him. We know the result, the Lord of Creation confronted those judgmental men with their own sins, and so touched their hearts that not one of them could play the hypocrite by throwing the first stone.
That interesting word Paraclete might detain us for longer than it usually does. The Church teaches is He is the Holy Spirit, but that Greek word covers a variety of meanings, including ‘advocate’ – He is our advocate, as Jesus is our mediator. If you want to think of it in terms of courts, when we get to the final judgment we have a powerful advocate and a mediator. Let us take Saul of Tarsus, a nasty, judgmental sort of fellow if ever there was one. A well-educated Pharisee, he has no time for those backsliding followers of the crucified prophet Jesus, and was happy to persecute them. We are not shown any sign that he repented of his sins before that scene on the Damascus Road. How could he move from non-repentance to repentance in the twinkling of an eye? St John gives us the answer in 1 John 4:19 – he loved us first. If we will but repent, then we can receive that love. It is there already, only our false pride and our blindness prevent us from seeing it and receiving it.
Even on the Cross in agony, one of the last things Jesus did before surrendering his Spirit was to ask for forgiveness for those who, moments earlier, had hammered nails into his hands. So, yes, sheep and goats will be separated, but to assume, as some do, that we have to take Jesus literally when he says ‘many’ will not be saved, but not when he tells us to pluck our eye out, raises interesting questions about how we, as individuals, emphasise those parts of Scripture which seem most relevant to us. Jesus is warning us about ourselves, he is telling us not that we should literally tear our eye out, he is warning us of the effects of sin; so, too, is he doing when he talks to us about sheep and goats. If we will but receive him, he will redeem us. He knows, alas, that many of us will reject him, but he still loves us, and he wants us all to be saved. That we shall not all be is down not to a vengeful God, but to a foolish and prideful humanity which in its folly rejects the offered love because it has not the humility to receive it.
All Along the Watchtower 
An interesting piece, C. I have actually been reading quite a bit recently about the meaning of “image of God” in Genesis and the application of that phrase in different fields of theology. The problem of literalism is indeed a thorny one, and it seems to come out of the woodwork very readily when people discuss Genesis or apocalyptic texts.
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Indeed- and the literalists tend not to cite this passage 😊
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Indeed. I have since my earlier days revised my own position re:literalism. Even so-called literalists don’t apply that consistently. If they did, they would have to believe in a flat earth.
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To the scripture examples; I simply look to the teaching of the Church for 2000 years.
My understanding of the the first via the Church is that there is no suffering or sacrifice, no desire or want that is not worthy of either overcoming or sacrificing for the glories of Heaven; that nothing should stand in the way of our first and last end . . . God Himself.
Likewise, my understanding of the second is that there will be a personal and a general judgment which we will be held accountable. It lays the penalty of the Judgement squarely where it belongs; on ourselves. It is not an unmerciful God that metes out punishment but our own disregard of Him, which would have us ignore or defy all that he, as a loving father, has given us and enlightened us about for our eternal happiness.
This is why a Church that is consistent with such teachings for all times and ages is necessary or we will be left to our individual reading of scripture and resting comfortably in our own smugness to think that we now have the true meaning or that our modern society has the new and improved meanings for all that is contained in scripture.
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Indeed- we condemn ourselves – he stands ready to receive all who repent
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I agree with Scoop, from the teachings of the Church, there will be a judgment. However, I was listening to a Catholic Answers podcast during work the other day and came upon an explanation of “Who am I to Judge?” In this regard, the guest talked about how in that particular instance the Pope was taken out of context because he was speaking about a specific person. The guest also spoke about having a “beam” and one’s eye and how that is taking out of context because previously it gives the conditions in what to judge by removing our beam to remove other beams of our brothers.
Of course, what struck me as a thought that I never really entertained is that in the end salvation is a free gift and that God’s judgment comes from Grace, so that we should not even be concerned with judgment of ourselves, we should not judge ourselves because St. Paul did not judge his own sins. The guest gave scriptural citations for all of these point, sadly I do not remember, but perhaps one of you will know.
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St Paul’s comment about judging himself comes from 1 Cor. 4:3. Re: Matt. 25 the Sheep and Goats Judgement. The context of that judgement is the Parousia and the enmity of the nations and the gods to Yahweh. Christ as Yahweh in the flesh, and as the head of the council judges the nations for their treatment of God’s covenant people. Parallel texts for this scene (amongst others) are Joel 3 and Ps. 82. The question of where the believer stands in this scene depends upon the presuppositions of the reader. For what it is worth, my own opinion is that the believer’s moment before the “judgement seat of Christ” needs careful consideration in relation to this scene. The text speaks of the nations, i.e. Gentiles, but members of the Church are not Gentiles – for there are no Gentiles in Christ. The Church is “circumcision neutral”.
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Thanks for the references. Yes, Im very familiar with Matthew 25. As stated, I didn’t remember Paul from listening, but figured Someone here would know what the speaker was referring to with St. Paul. It’s interesting that you assert that it depends on the presuppositions of the reader, so I will review that material first hand and see if I agree with the speaker, thank you for your comment.
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You should also read Heiser on why eschatology is a waste of time. As a Catholic you may not agree with him, but you’re also a scholar and his academic record is excellent.
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Two thoughts: I study a lot non-Catholics, and some Jewish, scholars in accordance to Biblical Archaeology–mostly on the Exodus–so far as I can find many Catholics do not concern themselves with these matters. However, in a world where empirical evidence is considered the only means of truth, it helps to have some on your side with Evangelization.
2. In America, our friends are few and our secular enemies are a great many; therefore, I’ll welcome help from my fellow Christians.
On the point where I think I would disagree initially as Catholic is that I think Eschatology was a great concern of Christ, especially in Christ’s sermon on the Mount and the Kingdom of Heaven. Also, many of Christ’s parables concern themselves with judgment like Lazarus and the Rich Man, the muster seed, and wheat and the tares to name a few of the top of my head.
It would be interesting to read how Heiser would articulate his assertions against those points.
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Ah, he would agree with you. The title is just meant to grab your attention. He affirms the importance of the resurrection and the restoration – what he has in his crosshairs are assertions made by – for example – dispensationalists. His argument is that they don’t often examine how their hermeneutic is constructed, and therefore assume that other conclusions are invalidly arrived at. He’s good on presuppositions and logic.
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I have what is called “The Didache Bible,” which is the creation of the Midwest Theological Forum. It incorporates in the text footnotes that correspond to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
In regards to 1 Cor 4:1-7, it says of the context, “A steward is a caretaker who has been entrusted with responsibilities by his master. As stewards of the Gospel, Apostles and teachers of the Gospel should not be praised on their own account, as was thse cause in the personality cults of Corinth. Paul and Apollos did not create or encourage these divisions, which resulted from a lack of spiritual maturity among the Corinthians. Bishops are stewards of the Gospel and the Sacraments left to the Church by Christ.”
On 1 Cor 4:5 it says, “At the Last Judgment, nothing will remain hidden; both good and sinful actions will be left for all to see. (CCC 678)
So I go to the Catechism: (CCC 678)
678 Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: “Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.”586
I do agree in the aspect, as I taught my PSR class using Mt. 25 that Christ has instructed us how to get to Heaven. However, it is indeed complex to the degree that salvation is not earned but a free reward and that having faith allows to be able to do these actions.
Try explaining that to 4th graders… …
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Interesting thoughts – and I’d concur entirely
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By the way, C, you may be interested in the Oxford History of the Biblical World (ed. Michael Coogan), if you haven’t had a look at it already. It’s quite good at summarizing some of the historiographical and archaeological debates (although it is necessarily dated given the rate of publication of digs in peer-reviewed journals).
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Yes, I have it – but the rate of publications makes it hard to keep up
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Indeed. I found it very useful once I had prepped myself, although I found some of the conclusions a little suspect. I’m glad that I can discuss things like this with you and check other scholars when archaeology hits the headlines. We need more voices in the Church that can explain to lay-people some of the assumptions and fallacies that work their way into methodologies.
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God showd no form on Horeb lest the people CORRUPT themselves and make an image.
God does not like images used in worship. And no, the cherubs on the ark don’t count. The people couldn’t go in to see them. You know, like the idolaters file by and slobber all over the foot of Jupiter in the Red Dragon capital building. And no the brass serpent doesn’t count….it had power and was a one time use. God got rid of it when the idolatrous Hebrews started venerating it. This is the shining example the cathols use as to why god loves images. But god had Hezekia destroy it. The cathols never mention that. Its bad for business.
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Bosco – why have you not plucked out your right eye? You admit to lustful thoughts
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Pluck out my brain. Ive done that alreaDY
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But since you like taking it literally I’d expect you to have one eye 😊
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Or none?
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Indeed – it might explain the spelling 😊
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I admitted to semi lustful thoughts. I see a female and I praise god for such beauty of design. Well, that’s how I try to do it. I never cheated on my wife, not even once, even if I was approached, I told them I was married. How many men can say that?
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If thy right eye offend thee pluck it out – why have you not done so – lustful thoughts are as bad as adultery
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I think jesus was the only man who could not look at a girl with lust
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The point is you don’t take that saying literally
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I get the meaning of what Jesus meant by cutting off the hand if it offends thee. Some of His saying are difficult. Some could be meant for after the rapturos. Lots of other things he said are clear….like not to make vain repetitions when you pray like the heathen do. That’s clear enough.
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No, there is nothing vain in praying to Jesus – you do know that is who the Rosary is prayed to?
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I understand that for every repeated rote prayer to Jesus, there are five to Mary. Its actually a Mary worship festival. Jesus tossed in to shut the prots up. But the good news is….Christ will take you as you are. Salvation is still here for the asking.
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We ask the Mother of God to pray for us – to her Son
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That’s the problem with images. You buy into the idea that the female holding the baby is somehow running things for this infant, or that she does something for you. Come on….do you think the image is correct? Do you think good sister Mary sat around with Jesus in her arms and they both had crowns on, sitting there looking all spiritual and what have you? Heck no. Mary was cooking and getting water and Jesus was crawling around getting into stuff. Then when he had brothers and sisters they most likely argued and made general havoc.
When you die, there is a gulf between the dead and the living. Mary and Joseph cant hear you. They are resting. But not to worry. Today is the day of salvation. Jesus knocks. Just open and invite him in.
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You really don’t get art at all do you? How sad to be so visually illiterate
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My mother got art degree from USC, my sister got art history degree from Georgetown. Ive been doing art things since I was born. I now do oil on canvass. I do paintings of seascapes and dolphins and killer whales. Im working on my sunlight thru the waves technique.
Just because I call a spade a spade you say I don’t understand art. I understand it…I just don’t bow befor it and use it to direct my prayers, like some people do. Some of your official graven images move and cry. Then you Christians flock to see them and worship at their feet. Ive seen you Christians drive hundreds of miles to see the virgin of guadalupes bird poop on a windshield. Avian art, I guess its called. If you and your fellow poop worshipers don’t toss that aside and seek the Lord, the time will pass you by.
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Being able to daub doesn’t mean you understand art – if you did you would not write as you do
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God said that making images of Him is corruption. Since you don’t want to admit your religion is corrupt you call it art and call Bosco ignorant because he calls you corrupt. Aren’t
you tired of making excuses for that pinecone staff your chief pedophile holds? I think it was good brother Phillip who got tired of me exposing the big fat Red Dragon in the Vatican and said it wasn’t a dragon. He has more guts than you do.
This is cool. I get to see what angels cant. I get to poke at the sides of idolaters in the jast days who worship the Beast and his Image. I don’t care if they get mad. I get the pleasure of watching them do what was predicted of them. Its sad when I become fond of a few of them. I don’t want people I know to be separated from gods warmth when they die.
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No, re-read what God said. He said worshipping images was wrong. You follow a man-made rule which Muslims also follow. That, alone, ought to make you think again. I think you have a lot in common with Muslims, not so much with Christians perhaps.
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I was reading Matthew 9 in the Knox Bible this morning and came across-
13 Go home and find out what the words mean, It is mercy that wins favour with me, not sacrifice
What struck me about it was that Msgr Knox uses the word ‘home’ which most translators don’t and I wondered if this was something worth blogging about. For the purposes of this discussion I think the important idea is that when you see public sinners it might be worth stifling your first impulse, to condemn them, in order to go away and reflect on how mercy is most pleasing to God. This may not necessarily mean that you will not return in order to denounce sin but they way you do it will have been altered because you yourself have been gentled through reflection and prayer.
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I suppose the above picture is Jesus, the Spirit and God. Its no secret you all have corrupted yourselfs. One would think the images harmless. But images give false impressions. God tossed the Hebrews out of Israel because of idolatry. Yet you Christians have your temples piled high with them replete with kneepads to bow befor them in comfort.
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We worship God – idolatry is worshipping false gods
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I know that’s a sore spot with you good brother Chalcedon. Your holymen provide graven images to the faithful and they bow befor them and longingly look up at them and place candles and fruit in front of them and carry them on their shoulders. Im aware you don’t participate in all that, but you are guilty by association. But that’s not the problem. All are unsaved befor they get saved. Getting saved isn’t something one can step forward and say…make me saved. I believe that the person isn’t aware of whats going to happen. They just pray to the Lord to come and reveal himself…and then they go their way, figuring….well I asked Him to come in….uh, I guess ill see what happenes. They have no idea what is about to happen. So if one wants Jesus to come in, Invite Him in and tell Him youre ready to know him. Then go about your business. If it be His will, He will change you. When one is changed, one knows it. Religions and rosary beads and costume holymen all melt away. One has a relation with the maker of heaven and earth. Ones eyes will be opened.
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Bosco – we worship God- as in your more lucid moments you admit
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That’s nice…..you worship God, and Francis and Mary and Pio, etc ad infinitem. Now its time to take the next step and ask him to reveal himself to you. I used to worship him, I thought, on sundays and Xmas Eve. But I was on my way to hell if I died unsaved.
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No, I worship God. Why tell lies?
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The true Church is the Mormons.
SALT LAKE CITY — A Mormon leader urged members Saturday during a church conference not to be timid about defending church founder Joseph Smith’s story and role as the faith’s first prophet despite “erroneous” beliefs spread about him.
Mormons should remember the many benefits that have come in the nearly 200 years since Smith, then a teenager, says he had a vision of God and Jesus Christ in the woods of upstate New York that led to the formation of the church 10 years later, said Craig Christensen, a member of the faith’s second-tier worldwide leadership council called the Quorum of the Seventy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/mormon-leader-defend-founder-joseph-smiths-story/2016/10/01/61c7b28a-8847-11e6-b57d-dd49277af02f_story.html
You cant go to heaven unless you are Mormon. Their Book of Mormon says so.
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Jesus founded one church. I am in it, you are not.
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The church that Christ founded is telling its faithful in Guam not to vote for an extension of the statue of limitations.
“Please don’t bring out what we do to light. Let our priests do what they do without bothering them.”
That’s why allegations that the island’s archbishop molested altar boys decades ago have divided churchgoers and put the governor in a difficult spot politically.
When the Legislature unanimously sent him a bill eliminating the two-year statute of limitations for suing over sexual abuse, priests worked feverishly to stave it off, telling parishioners at Sunday Mass at the island’s 26 churches that the measure would bankrupt the church.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/heavily-catholic-guam-is-torn-by-sex-abuse-allegations/2016/10/03/6f7a66ee-899a-11e6-8cdc-4fbb1973b506_story.html
Gad dang man….does this ever end?
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When you find a way to stop sinners sinning, let us all know.
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This aint no run of the mill sinner….hes the head of the CC in a whole country. Hes got his curly staff and a big shiney robe and a big fish hat. Sinners we all. We sin all day. The playing field is level. Well, it seems youre not botherd by bishops being child molesters. So, nevermind.
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Of course it bothers me – but how many if the 12 Apostles were with Jesus when he died?
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I don’t know how many apostles were there when Jesus died. I guess a couple were standing afar off. What has that got to do with the perverse priests?
Whats my point in al this?
I maintain that the Catholic Church organization is a pedophile ring disguised as a religion. On top of that, the book of Rev exposes it to a tee. Well, now, to be fair, Rev also exposes the protestant world as the Image of the Beast.
Good thing I don’t belong to either of them.
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Sort of a problem, I’d think. The church has been defined by everybody from Augustine to Zwingli, including Christ himself, not all the definitions agree, but they all agree Bosco is not a member.
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Good brother Neo is rite for once. Bosco isn’t a member of any pedophile holyman church.
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~Neither is he of the Church Jesus founded.
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Isnt good brother Neo an accursed Lutheran?
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I am Bosco, and C is correct, Jesus founded a church, and you are not in it.
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Looks like you and me got something in common good brother Neo. (;-D
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Not really, Bosco, I belong to His church.
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Gods true church is The Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ . And you are not a member of it. Wait a min…..the Universal Pure and White Holy Roman Catholic Church is Gods true church, and you are not a member of it. You are a heretic.
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Keep dodging the issue Bosco. You know what it is, and you have no answer. Jesus founded a Church, it still exists – as he said it would. He said nothing about turning up at random and ‘saving’ the odd person – he founded a Church.
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Jesus didn’t found any Church.; He is the Church.
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No. He is the founder of the church.
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Really, so when he told Peter he was founding a church in him he was jesting? You don’t believe a word Jesus says unless it agrees with your own prejudice.
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