In the West the place of faith in the public square is still, just, contested. For many, of course, there is no doubt. Often unaware that they are taking on a position which is, itself, ideological, they state as though it is a matter of uncontested fact that the place for religion is in ‘private’. If someone were to say to them that their left-of-centre liberal secularism was something to be left at the door when they went about their daily business, they would be offended – and rightly so; how can a person’s core beliefs be separated from their daily actions? Yet, ironically, it is precisely that which they ask of people with religious faith.
The terms in which such people often discuss faith suggests that their understanding of what it is they are objecting to is minimal. The liberal use of terms such as ‘sky fairy’ and ‘imaginary friends’ is, if they but knew it, language which simply exposes a level of ignorance of which, applied to any other field, the user would be ashamed. Their one excuse might be that to listen to some of the loudest voices in the public square, one might imagine that Christians believed in the atomised individualistic ethic which has come to dominated our politics in the West. The Church has not preached such an ethic.
From the earliest times Christians have lived in communities and formed communities. Salvation is for each of us, but the Church has never seen it as a purely individualistic process. Those who were brought to the faith by St Paul did not imitate our friend Bosco here, and say they were ‘saved’ and then move on as individuals, they lived as part of a community of ‘saints’. Until relatively modern times we lived in communities. Even in a country like England, where centralisation was an early development, and where London assumed a position of immense importance from medieval times, the local community was where most people experienced governance. The Church was a central part of such communities, not simply because it provided a place where life’s rites of passage were carried out, but also because it was the one place in villages and towns where people could meet as a group and where they could celebrate the ordinary every day causes for joy, as well as the more heavenly ones.
The forces of industrialisation, urbanisation and latterly modernisation, broke up those communities, creating larger ones where the rhythms of work were not attuned to those of nature, and where, increasingly, the norms by which people lived were questioned. All of this had a profoundly alienating effect on those subjected to it. Losing those daily interactions and that sense of the Church at the centre of things, we created instead first a State-dominated system, and then one on which individuals were supposed to find their own way to whatever the secular equivalent of salvation might be. Of the getting of ‘things’ there was to be no end. Through the accumulation of material wealth ‘happiness’ was supposed to come.
As we stand and look at the society thus created, there is clearly a profound sense of disillusionment and disappointment. Those of us who are Christians, far from leaving our faith at the door, are here to say that the roads down which we have travelled for so long as a society lead nowhere. Only through a rediscovery of the sense of community can we begin to prevent our polities dissolving. Identity politics, like class politics, is simply a distraction from what life is really for – which is recognise in each other the image of the living God, and as we pray for redemption and as we repent, to recognise that in order to do so, others need what we need – which is that sense of community St Paul’s churches possessed.
Scoop said:
It is from the success of Christianity within our societies that today we find ourselves out of step with the new norms of society. We were complacent in our victory. It is the fact that we have lost sight of the idea that we are a people set apart . . . think of the quakers who live apart from this world in their own communities with their own societal norms. In some ways that is how we began and still are in certain countries around the world. Somehow, we got it in our head that our success in converting our surrounding cultures would last forever. Now we are trying desparately to negotiate our faith with the world in a desperate attempt to hold on to our dominance in the West; but the more we abandon of our faith the weaker we appear and the less believable our faith becomes to the newly secularized West. For all intents and purposes the Chrisianized West is over . . . the party’s over. We might find that small pockets of true believers will once again live like our quaker brother and sisters in isolated groups with a sub-culture that is set apart from the new world order. At least our integrity and our honesty might fuel “outsiders” to seek the joy of those who are willing to give up everything for the Kingdom and serve Christ the King instead of popularity, success and power. We have, I think, lost our vision and we have begun to look alot like the barbarians that we say we would like to correct or convert. I don’t think our political maneuverings and logical arguments will suffice in world of savages . . . we must hold fast to the pearl of great price and not sell it for a bowl of pottage.
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Rob said:
Greetings Scoop:
Quakers in UK are generally no longer Christian, it has become more a peace movement and an eclectic form of religion. There remains a branch of evangelical Quakers in USA. The example of Amish or Mennonite communities would fit better for your comment.
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Scoop said:
That could well be Rob . . . but it is the “set apart” Christian that I refer to. I might have used those “underground” Christians who live in societies where Christianity is banned outright.
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Rob said:
You are quite right. Perhaps the future hope for the faith largely lies with separated brothers and sisters in Christ, living as supportive Christian communities and seeded into a wider society as a of its renewal.
This week I have just finished reading ‘Jesus in Beijing by David Aikman’. The book covers Christianity in China in all its forms, concentration on the protestant underground church but not ignoring the RCC both its underground and legal expression in China. These Protestants exist as a number of very large networks of underground churches and have a common vision and developing a strategy to evangelise the 10/40 window from China to Jerusalem ‘Back to Jerusalem’ there intention being to commission 100,000 missionaries for this work.
Interestingly the book mentioned a name I recognised a Brazilian who stayed with in UK us back in the 1960 during a Christian mission in our City. He was involved in assisting “Back to Jerusalem’s” vision and planning. I heard from him for a few years after he stayed with us while he was a missionary in El Salvador during a time of war. We then lost touch.
So 2 days ago I traced his email on-line and made contact with him he replied within the hour saying:-
Hello Rob,
Warm greetings from China Mission 2030. I am with more than 800 Chinese pastors and church leaders from mainland China aspiring missionaries and sending church ministers.
That’s interesting (He meant that I was reading about Back to Jerusalem) – The vision here is Back to Jerusalem with the largest group of Chinese out of Mainland China, for inspiration but also specific planning for mission mobilization.
So good to hear from you after these many years, we trust the Lord’s blessing in Barbados.
XXXX joins me in sending her regards.
XXXX
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Scoop said:
It would seem that the purity of the faith is more important than the efforts that are being made by many. Trying to twist that which isn’t Christian into a amorphous Christianity that seems impossible to distinguish what each other believes is not a way forward. These missionaries hold to their faith and I would suspect that they do not have members or missionaries that are not on the same page as far as belief and principles. It is that kind of light that we were meant to be . . . not salt that lost its savor.
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Nicholas said:
The public sphere does indeed bring its own challenges and changes. Behind our human rulers are the true rulers of this world, the heavenly hosts. The battle that is being waged right now is fierce indeed (Rev. 12). But the battle also causes the human population to raise questions. At the moment people think they have the answers, but their will come a point when even that facade will totter. We must be ready for such an hour to preach the Gospel. The materialists will not be able to stand when the Adversary empowers the Son of Perdition.
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NEO said:
Yes, I think community is the key here. Best if it is built around the church or churches, but even if built around football clubs, it is better than trying to go it completely on our own.
I wonder, especially in Britain, which had been pretty stable when the Industrial Revolution totally changed the place, the dilatoriness of the church in changing its focus with the changing population trends isn’t an underlying cause. True here too, of course, but not to the same extent, which may be why we are still a bit more Christian.
A tough problem to try to fix, but I think it must be fixed.
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Bosco the Great said:
God doesn’t give people new spirits and then hole them up in communities. The spirit puts them where he wills, and where he plans to use them to spread the good news. He doesn’t wall them off. Sorry to burst anyones bubble.
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chalcedon451 said:
So, you are saying St Paul got it wrong?
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Bosco the Great said:
Lots of the first Christians in Judea banded together. I don’t know what you are referring to as Paul getting it wrong. What commune did Paul live in, may I ask? What commune do you live in? Surely you do as the scriptures say and live communally. Don’t you.
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chalcedon451 said:
Paul founded churches. I am part of a church. You, not so much.
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Bosco the Great said:
you are a follower of a cult of personality that calls itself a church.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, I follow Jesus and the Church he founded rather than my own feelings – one day you will do so too,
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Bosco the Great said:
Can I ask a question?
Whats the church Christ founded doing with a big fat Red Dragon up on its headquarters wall? And why are its Bishops celibate”? It is a good thing to seek a bishops office. A bishop should be the husband of one wife and able to manage his home in a good manner. Why do its bishops set them selfs apart with their titles and costumes. This is forbidden by the apostles. We are all the same.
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chalcedon451 said:
St Paul said it was better to marry than to burn, but clearly favoured celibacy
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Bosco the Great said:
jesus has 7 churches and 7 candle sticks which are his churches. none are in rome. whos church do you belong to?
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chalcedon451 said:
Bosco – as none of those churches is in the US what is your point?
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Bosco the Great said:
Your church claims to be gods true and only church. Jesus doesn’t mention a church in Rome.
Claims…that all your church has. It claims this and that, and it say everyone must be subject to the Lord god pope. Claims. How about fruits? We can read the daily Mail for its fruits.
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chalcedon451 said:
Jesus doesn’t mention any church during his ministry – but he founded one. It is, as he said, still here.
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