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In some circles you only have to mention the word and eyes will roll, but what of it? Whether we like it or not, our society is marked by a greater degree of diversity than that of our parents of grandparents. When I was a little girl in Wales my father was the only ‘European’ in the village, although there were some English ‘incomers’ and even some North Walians. There were three channels we could get on the TV – and then only with some effort; the telephone was fixed and you could get it only on a waiting list from the nationalised telephone company; and you could have any meal you wanted at the one restaurant in the nearby town as long as it consisted of meat and two ve. No doubt there were some homosexuals, but if there were, although it had been legal since 1968, no one was ‘out’. It was not atypical of the area. Last time I was there, there were many different types of places selling a variety of foods, you could get your mobile phone from at least two shops in town, and on any tariff you cared; and there was a ‘gay bar’, as well as a lot of Poles and some people of colour from I don’t know where. Diversity. Talking with some older people who had known my daddy, they weren’t much enamoured of the changes, but the changes weren’t going away – although it turned out two of the chapels had, and the Church of Wales church had about it a neglected air although it was, I was assured, still open.
As in my old hometown, diversity is a reality in modern life, and however little or much we like or dislike it, it isn’t going away. Moving from an isolated rural environment to Edinburgh, I am at times almost overwhelmed by the range of diversity on offer here – and I’d not be telling the truth if I didn’t say there were times when I just want to be back in an environment with which I am familiar, and where diversity amounts to taking the high or the low road to the next village. My congregations then were all white, mostly female, and wholly middle class; an environment I felt very much at home in, fitting all three categories. Here I find myself offering the kiss of peace to and this is just thinking on the last four Sundays) a female Nigerian student, a Scottish woman, an American tourist, a German tourist, a Malaysian student, a woman from the Hebrides, a Danish woman, and a couple of English students, as well as a Scotswoman who lives in the same tenement as I do. At coffee afterwards, I had a chance to ask what they were doing there, and the answers were interesting.
They’d look at our website and found it looked welcoming in terms of the language we used and what we said about ourselves. Some had come from other churches in the city because they’d heard ‘good things’ about us. One young woman said she’d heard we welcomed ‘people like me’. I didn’t need to ask what she meant. Sometimes I go to the 8 am Communion service, and there I find a congregation more like the ones I am used to – mainly white, mainly Scottish and mainly middle class – and mainly women. We don’t have coffee, but on the way out I speak to people, and the story is always the same – the 10.30 sung eucharist is a little too ‘lively’ for them, and they love the old Scottish prayer book – so they go to the early service, or to Mattins at 9.30. The same Church, two diverse congregations. I even manage to get to Evensong occasionally, and that’s an entirely different story, many students, many tourists, and quite a lot of people who go to it because they ‘like the peace and the calm’ and they don’t feel ‘left out’ because there is no Communion service – even though in practice we’d welcome them if they wanted to come. I have not yet managed Mattins myself, but am told that is yet another diverse group.
That is our way of dealing with the fact that diversity exists. We try to offer everyone something they might want in terms of style of worship – all directed to the same Holy Trinity. In this way, at least, we can be all things to all men. Some of the implications of this I shall come to presently.
famphillipsfrancis said:
St Paul was the first to describe himself as “being all things to all men” – but didn’t he then add, “that I may thereby save some” or words to that effect? (I don’t have a Bible handy.) For St Paul, as for us later Christians, it is about saving souls. On the matter of diversity, it doesn’t matter about skin colour, sexual orientation or anything else: what matters is following Christ in love – and in Truth.
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JessicaHof said:
Of course, and I kind of took it for granted that people would assume that was what we were doing.
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JessicaHof said:
As I am very sympathetic to traditional practices, I am assuming that, as ever, your reading comes from your own deep conflicts with your own hierarchy. No one could say your hatred of the current Pope was thinly disguised. Perhaps you ought to get back to your playpen with the other crybabies?
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Bosco the Great said:
How dare you talk to Quiav the Great is such a manner.
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JessicaHof said:
He likes ‘tough love’ – just showing him some 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Hmmmmmm. So, exactly what sexual sin are you accusing good sister Jess of commiting?
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JessicaHof said:
Odd that he suddenly didn’t answer that. 🙂 xx
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JessicaHof said:
Heresy stems from pride.
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JessicaHof said:
Ah, the ‘moralists’ – did they know anything about Arius or Apollinarius or any of the real heretics – or were they, like you, theorists with sex on the brain?
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, we can see that has served them so well – you and so many of your theorists seem obsessed with sex – your own Pope has said as much.
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JessicaHof said:
Perhaps you need a cold shower?
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Bosco the Great said:
Well good sister, maybe you could fill in the yummy, oops, I mean horrible details.
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JessicaHof said:
Have you not heard?
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Bosco the Great said:
Have I not heard? Uh, I guess I haven’t heard. Hears what?
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JessicaHof said:
You’ll have to ask our ‘sex correspondent’ Quiav the great’ 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Can I take a shot at it?
You were caught pole dancing at a nudie bar.
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JessicaHof said:
You might think that, I couldn’t possibly comment 🙂 xx (More likely I would be mistaken for the pole!)
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Bosco the Great said:
How many guesses do I get?
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JessicaHof said:
As many as you like 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Hmmm. Im quite sure you never cheated on your husband, so that leaves me with virtually no clues. Hmmmmmm. Let me put my dirty little mind to work here.
Geeze, trying to convict good sister Jess of vice Is like trying to say something nice about the Devil.
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JessicaHof said:
I never did Bosco.
I see that most of our RC commentators are going – but I am glad Chalcedon isn’t.
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Bosco the Great said:
My hats off to you good sister. You have hoisted those hypocritical papists with their own Petards. Now they go scrambling . Maybe they will all huddle up in that intolerant antichrist site Catholic Answers where you get banned if you post anything other than from catholic sources.
Im proud of you good sister. Give them no quarter.
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JessicaHof said:
I have simply tried to do what I have always tried to do, which is to open this place to all sorts of opinion. Those who dislike my views have always been welcome to post, but have not very often done so. I think they’ve called for you to be banned more often than they have posted.
I don’t think they are hypocrites, Bosco dear, as they really believe that their position is the right one. But it reminds me of something a friend told me recently:
“It was said [of x] that whenever conversation turned to Jesus Christ, she could not resist divulging her precise position beside the manger.”
Christ Jesus belongs to no one church, he came to save no one set of people – he came to do what he still does, that is to save everyone who turns to him in humility and confesses their sins.
I can’t pretend I am the chief of sinners – except in my own life – but I know that I am saved by no other name than that of Jesus he alone covers our sins.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ok, you caught me. When I called the papist hypocrites, I should have qualified that. But im lazy and just blurt out things sometimes. The papists in here, I believe, are honest in what they believe. Its quit by association that makes them hypocrites. Their very own leaders are poster boys for “do as I say, not as I do” They talk about how their religion has been gods gift to man for the last 2000 yrs. Yes, if your name is Satanas, you would think it a gift. But ask someone burning to death how they feel about Catholicism. Or the children turned out into the streets to beg, how they feel. Now, these homosexual pedophiles gather to consider if or not they should allow divorced or gay people into heaven. If these rank and file catholics don’t see the plain and towering hypocrisy which is in the very DNA of the catholic church and don’t get up and leave it….then they deserve to partake in gods wrath which is to come.
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JessicaHof said:
Like many ‘aggressive’ people, you can dish it out but you can’t take it.
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NEO said:
None of which surprises me. Given where and what it is, your church is an obvious choice for tourists, particularly from Germany, Scandinavia, and America, since you are in full communion with most of our Lutheran Churches. That never hurts.
The key phrase about your comments both in Wales and at your 8 am service is, I fear, mostly women. Personally, I’d probably like it fine, although I’d surely try the sung Eucharist at least once. And Evensong, well it’s one of the reasons to go to the UK, as far as I’m concerned.
All things to all people? Well, not really, I suspect you teach the same Gospel to all people, but there is no reason not to offer a style of worship (as long as it meets the requirements of worship) that pleases the parishioners, severally, and together.
Diversity is, as you say, a fact of life. Not all of our response has been proper, not have our governments and churches always been right. But we must find our way through the thicket. I’m watching one church here self-destruct, it has three cliques that never interact, and none of them will deal with their clergy. That’s going to be hard to fix.
Another excellent article, dearest friend. 🙂 xx
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JessicaHof said:
Many thanks Neo – it’s a new experience for me finding a church which is growing – I may, of course get a bit carried away 🙂 xx
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NEO said:
I suspect we all would. It’s quite exciting! 🙂 xx
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Rob said:
If you continue to be carried by the right person thats fine with me. ):
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JessicaHof said:
🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Ah so good sister….your church is mostly chick-a-dees eh? How many are single ? Uh , just curious.
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JessicaHof said:
Oh quite a lot Bosco – lots of women in their twenties 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
twenty SOMETHING EH? I have strict requirements for girls I date.
Eighteen to eighty…blind cripple and crazy.
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JessicaHof said:
Very catholic of you 🙂 xx
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Annie said:
The church, though holy, is composed of sinners, little and large sinners but all in need of God’s mercy.
A person who once said, “I wouldn’t go to church, it’s full of hypocrites” got the response, “There’s always room for one more”
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JessicaHof said:
Such a good response – and so true 🙂 xx
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Another good example of responding to the promptings of the Spirit. When I was a lad hereabouts, the fact that my father came from Belfast made me an exotic creature – now I’m not sure what would do that. The village where I was born is now famous for its lesbian collectives and shops, the city where I taught is famous for its curry houses and has a large ethnic group from parts of the Indian subcontinent – and yes, it’s a bit bewildering at times – but that’s no problem, we’re Christians, it gives us more folk to share the Good News with.
It seems very sensible in a big city church to have a number of different types of service – I’m assuming it doesn’t all fall on the same vicar though?
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JessicaHof said:
No, we’re fortunate enough to have a ‘team’ – and thank you – and if it’s any comfort, I often feel a little unsettled too 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
I understand the Vatican is hosting some Immam or another. Maybe the CC will start having a mass in Arabic.
Allahu Ackbar
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JessicaHof said:
Do you suppose the Imam is the right sort of Catholic or the wrong sort?
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Bosco the Great said:
Heck, I dunno. Right sort of catholic/ I don’t understand that question. Isnt an Immam a Muslim? Maybe the Holy Father is kissing up to the prophet Muhammad in order to keep ISIS from tearing up the Vatican.
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JessicaHof said:
Your God seems an odd cove – mine is odder, he chose to be humiliated and suffer and die rather than that we should be lost. I keep that in mind. Churchianity is a common enough religion – Jesus didn’t care much for it.
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Bosco the Great said:
My sick sad religion is better than your sick sad religion
Nah nee nah nee nah nah
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Bosco the Great said:
OOUUUuuuuuu, that was a low one good sister. Whoops dere it is.
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JessicaHof said:
Has it occurred to you that you are reacting to something no one has written? I have written precisely nothing abut denaturing or debauching the liturgy. Neither have I mentioned heresy.
Perhaps these comments were meant for your safe space where you chaps can have your 4th rate CP&S and hear only your own voice repeating the nostrums which have palpably failed?
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Bosco the Great said:
Are you making fun of good sister Teresas fabulous site”Catholicism for the Purely Simple?\”?
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JessicaHof said:
Now would I? 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Heh heh heh. Good sister banned me from her site as soon as she created it. I was able to get in there about a yr ago and I interjected some sanity. She patched the flaw and I was banned once more. But not befor I upset the whole apple cart.
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JessicaHof said:
I’m all in favour of those who need to hear the sound of their own voice echoed back having a safe space – but won’t be impressed if I find them criticising students who call for safe spaces.
This blog is not a Catholic one, nor a Protestant one, it is a Christian one offering a voice to all sections of the faith. I’m mindful of the number of times some of those who have decamped have called for you to be banned – but you are still here, and have never gone off to a safe space 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Safe place? Whats that? Yes, catholic sites ban me after awhile. I had to bite my tongue real hard to stay in Catholic Answers as long as I did. People in here call formy head on a plate. They don’t like seeing their face in a mirror. Don’t remind them of their idolatry.
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JessicaHof said:
I really don’t think they are idolators Bosco – but that’s another discussion I suppose 🙂 xx
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Bosco the Great said:
Idolatry has more definitions besides one. Holding up men in esteem, nay just not esteem, but as bridges to God himself. Holding men in high esteem is idolatry. Tons more things are idolatry. Even I, Bosco the Great, commit idolatry regularly, without realizing it. Yes, idolatry and all its forms could be a subject for the near future. Time is short. Id like input from everyone, not just me. Good idea good sister.
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JessicaHof said:
We need to preach the word Bosco – nothing else matters, and yes, we’re all sinners – but we’re all covered by the blood of the Lamb if we turn to him and love him.
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Bosco the Great said:
Well said good sister.
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JessicaHof said:
In the real world it is called evangelism.
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JessicaHof said:
Since the days that people stopped being ruled by a clerical elite – which may not have reached your church yet.
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Rob said:
On the subject of idolatry the Lord explicitly said that you cannot worship God and Mammon and in so doing made it clear that the love of money is a form of idolatry. An easy one to become trapped in and I guess the sin of many Christians of all types.
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Bosco the Great said:
Yeah…tell that to the Vaticans Bank for Religious Money Laundering.
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JessicaHof said:
Banks – Mammon’s work.
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NEO said:
Uh, no. Much as I love the various liturgies, RC, Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, and others, even a very few contemporary ones.none were written by God, all were written by men, in other words, sinners like me, to glorify God.
It is far beyond our power to ascertain what God thinks of any of them. Their power is in their ability to move men to love God.
And again no, most sin comes from pride, including Churchianity.
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NEO said:
Yes, I believe he did, but how much and which liturgies, I do not know. Perhaps, all of them, perhaps only some.
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NEO said:
Darned sticky shift key! 😐
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NEO said:
Little to argue with there, mostly because it’s true! They have evolved and they continue to do so, part of our job is to see they continue to glorify God, not man.
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JessicaHof said:
The young – they are the people who don’t go to your church, and now, increasingly go to no church at all – the latest stats show 44% of the population have no religion at all.
Between you, your own sordid little RC civil war, and your dismissive attitudes to anything not 500 years old, you are aiding and abetting the dechirstianisation of the West. You sit and gloomily theorise, the people I am working with get out there and try to fulfil the Great Commission. How easy it is to be an armchair general theorising into an echo chamber. If you ever got out and tried to evangelise you would know who the young are and why it is important we take the Good News to them. if you can’t help – and you clearly can’t – you might at least stop sniping from the sidelines as though you had anything positive to contribute. Perhaps you need a sandwich board and a pitch at Hyde Park? The end will only be nigh if people such as yourself are the only voices the young hear. Fortunately, they aren’t.
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JessicaHof said:
Do come up here and you’ll see a church which had 80 coming to the sung eucharist 2 years ago now having 250, plus good congregations at 8, 9.30 and 6.30. I can’t be held liable for your lack of experience.
Your evangelism? Moaning on websites and criticising your Pope. Great work – certainly helped put me off your lot. Keep it up, you’re a much more effective agent of anti-Catholicism than Bosco. He’s put no one off, you’ve certainly done better. Keep going.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, there you have it shaped by circumstances, times, place and cultures. It happened in the past, it happened now. No doubt there were self-styled traditionalists who lamented the ghastly new Latin Mass which replaced the more elegant Greek. What is it about men which makes them get so het up about this?
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JessicaHof said:
Didn’t notice your church being keen on it. But as usual, you miss the point.
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Bosco the Great said:
Good sister Jess is on the firing line of saving souls.
God speed to you good sister.
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JessicaHof said:
Thank you Bosco. I’m fortunate here, with a Spirit-filled church which is growing – I find the pessimism of those who worry about decline irrelevant – it isn’t me, it isn’t you, it isn’t the church which saves, it is the Spirit, and if we believe He will come and we are made new in Him. Those who want to hide in a cave and bemoan their fate don’t know the Holy Spirit. How can you be pessimistic if the Spirit is with you? Isn’t possible. I just wish I could do more.
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Annie said:
God, the creator of each one of us, has no favourites but values each of us as much as the other.
Let there be peace on earth to those of good will and let the people pray.
https://godisinyourtypewriter.wordpress.com/2015/12/20/are-you-living-like-a-dish-towel/
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JessicaHof said:
Thank you for that, Annie. The greatest sin is despair – we are, as JP II said. ‘the Easter people, and alleluia is our song”.
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Bosco the Great said:
AMSTERDAM — Hundreds of Pakistanis and Afghans have been lining up at a local swimming pool in Hamburg, Germany, to be baptized as Christians. In the Netherlands and Denmark, as well, many are converting from Islam to Christianity, and the trend appears to be growing. Indeed, converts are filling up some European churches largely forsaken by their old Christian flocks.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/25/why-are-so-many-muslim-refugees-in-europe-suddenly-finding-jesus.html
Because of Christian workers on the front line like good sister Jess.
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JessicaHof said:
The witness we bear helps the Spirit. These people come from a society torn apart by their coreligionists, we take them in and show them what the love of Christ means in practice. It is the Spirit whi gives the harvest, we are but workers in the field.
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Rob said:
Another good report of Muslims being converted to Christ from around the world http://www.premierchristianity.com/Past-Issues/2016/June-2016/Muslims-turning-to-Christ-a-global-phenomenon
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, we see it here too. We don’t trumpet it, because we know the converts are at risk – but it is a wonderful thing to see. The witness of love and care allow the Spirit to do His work – praise be!
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