I know there were some who wondered why Bosco’s post was allowed up. The answer is simple – the point of view he comes from is not an uncommon one, and there is very little point complaining his comments are sometimes off the point, and then not allowing him to post. There is another reason this post was worth publishing – it illustrates vividly why some in the early Church did not think that the book should become canonical, arguing that it was a book which the faithful might well misunderstand, and from which they might draw misleading lessons – quod erat demonstrandum by Bosco.
The book belongs to a genre common at the time known as apocalyptic literature – this genre is characterised by the use of symbolic and allegorical language. To read such a genre literally, insisting that because it was inspired by the Spirit it means what it says would be absurd – Jesus is quite clearly not a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes. Read aright, we get the intended message. Jesus is, of course, the sacrificial lamb, the final offering for our sins. The number 7, symbolises perfection – that was the number of days of the Creation and the day God rested. We see seven proclamations to seven churches (chapters 2–3), and three sets of seven-part visionary narratives: the seven seals (4:1–8:1), the seven trumpets (8:2–11:18), and the seven bowls (15:5–16:21). So when we are told he letter is to 7 churches, that doe not mean (as Bosco appears to think) there were only 7 churches in the world – were that so then we should have to wonder what happened to the church in Jerusalem in Acts. The book is written to the seven churches in Asia – it actually states that – so there’s no excuse for reading it and thinking what Bosco does.
Its message in that we find in all apocalyptic literature – that God is coming to judge and to redeem, and that the powers of evil and empires will clash before God establishes the fullness of his kingdom. There are about 700 references in the book to the Old Testament – and the implications of this are well set out in an excellent post here, which is very good on numerology and the identity of ‘the beast’:
the number of ‘the beast’ is the same as a the number of a man’s name (in this case Nero Caesar) since both add up to 666. This ‘solution’ to the puzzle of Rev 13.18 has been known in academic circles since the 1840s, but sadly has still not filtered down into popular reading
As for the identity of the Great Whore of Babylon, the clue to the answer is in the text: ‘The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.’ This is a clear reference to the seven hills of Rome. John’s readers would have understood this, it was only with the toxic anti-Catholicism of the early Reformation that men identified that with the occupant of the Vatican rather than, as John meant, the Pagan Emperor who was persecuting Christians.
We have lost the art of reading the book in the way its first hearers would have done so, though modern scholars have done a good job of reconstructing it. As the same expert has written:
three features—of possible literalism, of transferability, and of power—are writ large on the history of the interpretation of Revelation. Some have read it thinking there really will be beasts emerging from the sea, that there are living creatures and rainbows in heaven, that our destiny is to sit on clouds playing harps (chapter 14), and that we will pass through pearly gates. Others have been able to identify people and institutions in their own world quite happily with the beasts and dragons, the woman clothed with the sun and the harlot riding the beast. And every generation has found this to be a text of extraordinary power—for good or otherwise
The idea that it can be read literally is not confined to Bosco, and his contribution yesterday suggests the limitations of that approach. Those who want to understand the book – and its importance, might like to follow this link.
Interesting, I’m going to play a slight devil’s advocate–no pun intended–personally, I’ve always strayed away a bit from Revelations. It seemed that with the Gospels and the letters, I really didn’t need it. In the Gospels, Jesus revealed to me what was going to happen.
So, my question naturally is if the book is allegorical if most apocalyptic literature is a reference to other events like Daniel as well. What parts of it are truly going to happen, if any?
For example, other than Jude, St. Michael is mentioned in Daniel and Revelations, is he purely allegorical for some other meaning? Are these distinctions only to be made by academics?
LikeLiked by 3 people
My friend, just read the scriptures and enjoy them and believe them. They were given to us as a gift. No group or class of men have the exclusive rights to the meanings. Just read and enjoy.
LikeLike
Thank you Q, I was patiently waiting for this reply. The concept of Original Sin origins lie in allegory, yet–we still needed that salvation from sin with Christ’s death and resurrection.
LikeLike
Q, have you received any of my messages/emails?
LikeLike
I was at first skeptical about Bosco’s post, on the face of it it was incomprehensible to me (because I have a small mind). But I decided to read his post carefully and did some internet searches on the topics he brought up, and I now feel I have a better understand of where he is coming from.
Thanks for the link, Chalcedon, I will check it out now.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Thank you good brother Zek….don’t be complacent. Check anything I say against scripture. I insist that everyone double check what I say. And double check what comes from others also. No matter what costume they wear. Especially if they are wearing some dime store costume.
LikeLike
Very little of my hard hitting post was from Rev. The references to the Man of Sin were all from the old testament.
I didn’t mention the city on seven hill or anything of that sort. The post was to identify the the Beast,the Man of Sin.
Good brother Servus is still wondering if everything is allegory….made up…fanciful. He wonders if Michael is a fable. Ill try to clear that up…not if he is fantasy, but what Michael does.
Michael, if one notices, is always doing battle for the Lord. He is a warrier.
Now look at Gabriel….he is always, well, both times…proclaiming the Messiah. That’s seems to be their two roles.
But there are three Archangels. Does anyone know who the third is?
Second, good brother Chalcedon seems to think the predictions penned by good brother John were about Nero and Rome at his present time. Good brother Servus smells a rat and asks…”What parts of it are truly going to happen, if any?”
Rev says a lot of weird things are going to happen. Good brother Chalcedon is singing the song of his newfound religion….that the prediction in Rev have come and gone 2000 yrs ago. That seems to satisfy any devotees who happen to read the bible, against the advice of the magisterium. The only turd in that punchbowl is that Rev makes it painfully clear that it is in the future….things that are to come. The shabbly excuse that the Rome of Nero was what John foretold falls apart, because they official Vatican excuse doesn’t mention any of the plagues and other events that happen surrounding the central event and the man of 666.
Well, that still leaves the Woman who rides the Beast and her 7 hills for the future, and the future is now.
LikeLike
The third archangel of the Bible is Raphael and all Catholics are quite up to date on these. More on these 3 here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/angel6.htm
I also have no doubt about these three . . . I say the St. Michael Prayer often.
However, the Book of Enoch lists 7, though not a canonical book in Roman Catholicsm. Do you know them? They are as follows: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Saraqael, Raguel, and Remiel.
The Kabalah lists 10. The Eastern Orthodox give honor by name to 8 and there are others in various other traditions.
I not confused about that which is allegory and that which isn’t. Sometimes the writings can be read on both levels. And it is not a rat I smell; just a Clown.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sorry, no prize. There are only three archangels in the bible. Those others you mention are in those wacked out phoney books. Funny you didn’t get the rite answer. Good brother Chalcedon might know the answer.
There are three archangels in the bible. Gabriel, Michael and……..(jeopardy theme music)………….
LikeLiked by 1 person
You did not read Raphael Clown? Can you read?
LikeLike
Raphael is mentioned in the Book of Tobit, which is accepted as canonical by Catholics, Orthodox, and some Anglo-Catholics, and as useful for public teaching by Lutherans and Anglicans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_(archangel)
Ill pit my reading skills against yours any day of the week, and twice on sunday.
Here….this ought to cheer you up…..site the verse where Raphael is in the bible, and ill go away and never come back. The KJV please. If you cant, I want you to admit that you believe in fables and non biblical nonsense.
LikeLike
What a foolish question seeing as you consider Tobit apocryphal. It does not appear in the KJV at all.
LikeLike
Youre rite, Raphael is not mentioned in the Old or New. He surely would have been mentioned in the Old. But, that doesn’t stop religions from adding things to the word of God. Or in your club, from subtracting things.
LikeLike
King James was not authorized to decide what went in the Bible. What gives you that idea. Show me in the Bible where he got that authority. Two can play that game, clown.
LikeLike
Show you where King James got the authority? Authority…what authority? We don’t need no stinkin authority. God gave mankind the scriptures. Theres your authority.
LikeLike
In that case when did mankind give King James the authority to add words delete books and make countless other errors that all scholars today admit? He took it on himself to make the Bible what he wanted to make it. That should appeal to all the demons and you.
LikeLike
Yeah, you tow the CC line alright. KJV….full of errors. If you say so my brother.
Say , is there anywhere which lists these errors, or maybe even one error? Please don’t use those 7 fake books yall got in your bible, yes, the one that cut out the pesky 2nd commandment.
LikeLike
By the way, I just noticed you mentioned St Michael, and some prayer to him. (we are not to pray to created beings). So, whos big idea was it to make an archangel a saint? Hes not a man or a human. I thought your club only had humans as saints. What the devil does a powerful archangel need with your flimsy sainthood? (;-D
LikeLike
What do you think saint means? To be sanctified is that which is Holy. Are angels and archangels saints? Are they holy or not? One is either sanctified or not . . . the fallen angels lost their holiness. Those like the archangels have not. They are persons, though spiritual persons and they are holy and thereby they are saints.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Haaaahahahhahahaha. Aaaaahhh. Well, I guess theres no harm in calling them saints. But its idolatry in its highest form to pray to them…or didn’t you know that?
LikeLike
Right, and that is why we ask them to intercede for us.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Who is “we”?
LikeLike
Christians that believe God made angels for a reason more than just hanging around and singing praise to the Lord. Seems that He has used them consistently to be His emissaries and messengers to man from God. If not then they are not much different than an old hound dog that lays at your feet. I use the messengers that God gives us. Remember that children are all given an angel. Some of us believe they are always by our side and help us by instructing us or by interceding with God for our petitions and needs. God makes Holy Beings for His Heavenly Court. You can disparage them at your own peril.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Show me where we are to pray to them. I can show you where we are not to pray to them. Oh, that’s rite…youre catholic, or a wanna be catholic because you are a recent convert, not a born catholic. They do everything the bible says not to do.
Never mind. I answered my own question.
LikeLike
Ill make this easier;
give just on instance of anyone praying to an angel, in the KJV. Thanks in advance.
LikeLike
Because they didn’t Joke man. Do I need to repeat to you that we do not pray to them? How many times before you actually believe me? O never mind. We’ve told you this for years and you persist to determine for yourself what we do and believe. I wonder how you know so much about a faith without ever studying it? You formed your knowledge of the Catholic Church from yellow journalism.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Prayer to Holy Michael the Archangel
Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=1389
Prayer to All Guardian Angels
O pure and happy spirits whom the Almighty selected to become the Angels and Guardians of men. I most humbly prostrate myself before thee to thank thee for the charity and zeal with which thou dost execute this commission. Alas, how many pass a long life without ever thanking their invisible friends, to whom they owe a thousand times their preservation!
Angels of those happy infants who are as yet “without spot before God,” I earnestly beseech thee to preserve their innocence. etc etc
ibid..
Seems yall pray to angels to me.
LikeLike
You confuse a conversation or request (prayer) with worship (due only to God) . . . and thus I answered according to your limited vocabulary.
LikeLike
” I most humbly prostrate myself before thee to thank thee”
When good brother John fell down befor an angel, the angel rebuked him and told him not to bow befor him, because he is a fellow servant. But, yall love to do what the bible says not to do.
LikeLike
Don’t waste my time . . . its been explained a 100 times to you.
LikeLike
k…it was…we don’t pray to them…now its…we don’t worship them. My friend, whats wrong with just following the Lamb. You have to get to know him first. Ask him to show himself.
LikeLike
I see Him in the Bread of Angels at every Mass and take Him into my body to dwell with me. You have no idea what you lack. I partake of the Lamb of God Who gives Himself to me and all who receive Him in the Sacrament of the Altar in a substantial way. You are impoverished but don’t even know how impoverished you are.
I’m done here with you, Chocolate Syrup man. Enjoy yourself.
LikeLike
Its my privilege to converse with you.
LikeLike
Ill give good brother Chalcedon a few more mins to come up with the correct answer. Im betting he will.
Who is the third archangel?
LikeLike
There are actually five in the truncated Scriptures used by the KJV – Michael and Gabriel and three fallen ones – Satan, Appolyon/Abaddon and Beelzebub.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You didn’t let me down. Yes, Satan/Lucifer, the Cherub that Covereth, is the third archangel.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I suspect that the last 3 are the ones that lead Boscowitz around by his little red nose.
LikeLike
Excuse me. Its a big red nose….thank you.
LikeLike
Because you KJV types don’t have the complete Bible you dismiss Raphael as being canonical. Too bad the Canon was decided 1200 years before old King James made a mess of it.
LikeLike
Don’t get me started on those obvious sham 7 books the CC thinks are good. Ive looked at them. Obvious hoaxes. KJV has the complete story of salvation. Raphael isn’t in it. But you can bow and scrape befor some carving of it and pray to it all you want. Its a free country.
LikeLike
Who died and made King James God? or even the spokesman for His Church. I thought He founded His Church on Peter . . . not King James. Again: disparage Holy Scripture at your own peril, Clown.
LikeLike
Good brother James hired language scholars of the day to translate from the original greek and Hebrew. All of the saved agree with every word in it. True, some saved are post or mid or pre trib…..that’s because there is some ambiguity as to the time of rapturos. But all in all the KJV agrees with the spirit in us. Those 7 books you wave around ground at my soul.
LikeLike
Oh they were the language scholars that translated things, inserted things that weren’t there and cut out entire books from the already 1200 year old Bible. The saved (according to your idea of who the saved are) have no authority whatever. Show me in the Bible where God gave them the power to bind and loose or establish a Canon of Scripture etc. The spirit in you is the problem Boscowitz. It is not the spirit you think . . . but I think you know that. You are a troll as Gareth has told us and it seems rather sure that this is the case. I doubt, quite honestly, that you believe in Christianity at all. This is only a ploy to attack the Church; satan puts you up to it. May God have mercy on your soul.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You and this authority. You wave that word around like a little kid who found his fathers handgun.
LikeLike
If authority isn’t important then why not cut and paste a Bosco Bible. You have as much right to do so as King James did.
LikeLike
In the NT, the born again are called Kings and Priests in the house of the Lord. That gives me all the authority I need.
LikeLike
You’re delusional.
LikeLike
Oddly enough, what was in the future 2000 years ago is now in the past. If you follow the link you will see why Nero is the beast.
LikeLike
Yeah I clicked on that link, and it immediately put me into a deep sleep.
If Nero was the Beast, where is the new Jerusalem and what happened to the marriage supper of the Lamb and my new white linen robes and the 144,000 jews and the locust that had heads like loins and face like men who s power was in their tails to hurt men? My brother, don’t get scammed. Since you trust your “priest”, why don’t you ask him what happened to the new Jerusalem that is supposed to come down out of heaven.
LikeLike
I think if you able to read properly, you’d be less ill-informed. The NJ has not yet happened – the beast has.
LikeLike
Why has it taken god 2000 yrs to bring it down? What happened to the plagues?
LikeLike
Some things have come to pass, some have yet to happen. If you’d managed to read any of the links, this would have been explained.
LikeLike
In Rev, its clear that all of the madness of the trib happens in the span of 3 and a half yrs. You should know this….you know just about every thing else, my brother. You don’t want to entertain that idea because of its logical conclusion.
LikeLike
http://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/introduction-to-the-book-of-revelation/
How can anyone stay awake thru that. That’s beyond double talk.
PS….correction….I mistook good brother Philliup for good brother Servus when I copied his comment. ….Sorry. I don’t lump Good brother Phillip into the same bag as I do with good brother Servus. Servus has no spirit of openness or inquisitiveness. He just follows what his superiors tell him to believe.
LikeLike
That’s right Clown . . . I just follow Christ and His Church. No Clowns mentioned by Christ that I need to pay any attention to.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I ask questions for better understanding not as a means to challenge.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Bless you my friend
LikeLike
Bosco, I still don’t think you’re understanding me. So let me be clear. First off, on the original comment, I put playing “devil’s advocate” and this last I said I’m challenging the Church’s authority.
LikeLike
**I’m not challenging the Church’s authority. You must be controlling my iPhone’s autocorrect
LikeLiked by 1 person
This church of yours, what authority does it have? What is this church? Is it a great computer behind a big metal wall? Is it a green monster in a box? Is it a building? Is it a person?
LikeLike
It appears in Acts, and was founded by Jesus as the Bible shows. This church of yours, is the same true of it?
LikeLike
I know what was in Acts. You mention this church of mine. I was grafted onto a Vine. Jesus is the Vine.
So tell me…does this thing you call the church have any semblance to the believers in Acts?
LikeLike
Yes it does. You say it is grafted on, but what’s the evidence?
LikeLike
I don’t got to show you no evidence.
LikeLike
Since you have none, that’s mighty convenient.
LikeLike
“I just follow Christ and His Church”
If you say so my brother.
LikeLike
And you, clown. You follow your impulses it seems to me. I hope that works out for you.
LikeLike
Oddly enough, I didn’t want to participate on this post, C. But allowed myself to get pulled into ‘conversation’ with the pet AATW troll. I didn’t want to criticize you or Jess for what you allow or don’t allow but this fellow has taken what was an honor to post on this site to a level not worthy of the effort. You write an entire post as an instruction for who? The rest of us are pretty much to a person on-board with this type of Biblical understanding. This was a post for 1 person: the Clown. You know he won’t read it and even if he did he would not understand it or abide by it. So what is the point? He is only here to spread his hatred for the Catholic Church and in some respects all of Christianity. For he makes a mockery of this site and everyone who participates.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I respectfully disagree. I think ive been pretty lenient on my criticism of Catholicism lately, due in no small part of a promise I made to good brother Chalcedon.
LikeLike
Respectful? You don’t know the meaning of the word. I suppose we should give you a medal for only being boring and obnoxious then?
As far as I care, you and more like you can come and bring this blog to its knees if that is your goal and C and Jess are good with that. But as for me . . . I will not hang around to witness it. Gareth seems to have had your ticket all along and I think he’s wise by just avoiding this site so long as you’re an active participant.
LikeLike
I love you too. good brother.
LikeLike
He’s not the only person who thinks as he does, so it seemed worth trying to say something about the subject. I don’t think he’s a troll, he’s just an extreme form of something that is out there.
LikeLike
That others are as crazy as he is does not compel you to give him a platform. There is freedom of speech, freedom of press and freedom of choice that all work together. Crazies can stand on a soapbox or write on their own blog. Nobody will stop them. The press can not be muzzled by the state except in cases of slander or public safety; eg security. People have a right to support or not support whatever they wish. You have the right to restrict your readership or participation to the standard you set. The press is not forced to cover every event that is going on in the world. They have editorial control of their content.
LikeLiked by 1 person
As I say, I am not at all sure what was so objectionable in the piece he wrote. I am clear that a lot of what he says when responding shows his obvious biases. I sometimes think I am the last person left who really believes in free speech – no one has to read anything he says, and no one has to respond to him.
LikeLike
As I say free speech and standards for your media outlet are two different things. You seem to think that you must allow anyone access. Your call. And yes, people can choose to not engage or read. Depends on what your vision or aim for AATW is . . . and in time your readership will reflect the editorial decisions you make.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I take full responsibility for letting him post. As it happens, views that say were quite good ones – which is slightly worrying from one point of view, or, from another, a sign as Grandpa Zeke’s comment showed, that there is some interest in such a topic.
LikeLike
Whatever. Once one has read his views in the comments for a week . . . you have everything that you need to know about him. From there on it is repeat, repeat, repeat. Is three years enough? It is for me. If he is here, I won’t be for long.
LikeLike
Chalcedon – firstly, I’m not sure I agree with your opening statement. Do you know people in ‘real life’ who take this Bosco-line? Your colleagues at work? People whom you meet over coffee after your Sunday church service? People with whom you go for a quiet pint after work? I haven’t met such people in real life; only over the internet.
I’d encourage you and Jessica to re-think what the blog is about. I thought that the general concept was that Christians of wide and various description had more unity than might be apparent; we all agree that the Nicene creed is a fair summary of our faith (even though we may disagree on what some of the statements actually mean) and if we look more closely, we may see that despite the differences, we’re governed by the same Holy Spirit – and this becomes clear through the basic moral principles that we hold (for example, serious Christians are against abortion).
That’s the high-sounding agenda; I’m more interested in some fun and light relief.
The post by Bosco the other day looked thoroughly deranged. It went below the bottom in silliness and twistedness and could not come under the category of harmless fun. He’s also correct in his criticism of you; there wasn’t much Revelation in it; it was a twisted understanding from all over the Old Testament. Also – the label ‘anti-Catholic’ doesn’t really describe it; rather anti-absolutely everybody would be nearer the mark and I now see that Gareth Thomas is probably right; I’m more worried about the anti-Semitism.
By the way, for Gareth Thomas to complain about this looked somewhat like pot calling kettle black; GT was great friends with Benedict Carter on the Telegraph blogs, at least initially, and Benedict Carter showed alarming sympathies with some of the worst anti-Semites on that blog (and it attracted many). I suppose there is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repenteth and turn from his sin that over 99 who have no need of repentance.
I do wonder, though, if there is a complete disconnect between ‘real life’ and the internet – particularly when matters of faith and religion come up for discussion.
I don’t see the point of Bosco’s post – also the free speech line doesn’t hold; he has perfect freedom to post on his own internet site.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, when I lived in the USA I met plenty of Christians who took the sort of views Bosco takes – I think in the secularised state of Europe we get a very small section of the Christian spectrum – and many of the blog’s readers come from the USA.
Since Rev is of the same genre of Daniel and Jeremiah, and since he mentions it daily, it seemed a good opportunity to say something about it.
On Gareth, what matters to God is, as you say, repentance, and that’s the point at which Christians don’t keep referring to the past – it’s a central part of what Christ taught.
The line I try to hold here is that all contributors are free to have their say, and given the nonsense on Bosco’s site, if, as he had here, something more serious to say, that would hardly have been the place for it.
This freedom of speech thing is a hard one – but tested only when you have the power to censor someone you think is writing something with which you profoundly disagree.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You have a funny sense of the Freedom of Speech ideal. I defend the right of anyone to say anything. But I retain my right to refuse to aid and abet that which is gibberish and foul. As Jock said, let him find his own medium: nobody is stopping him. I do not know of a publication or a news outlet that does not filter their coverage or commentaries for content and decide on that which is acceptable and that which isn’t. Editors are there for a reason. He and other whackos do not have a right to media coverage . . . and you do not have a responsibility to provide it to him. If the Unabomber was one of our visirors would you give him free access to print his manifesto as well? Do you have standards or is the only standard that you come to AATW and participate? Nobody has a right to free access of someone elses media outlet. Those who run the media outlet decide the type of stuff they will print or not.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I didn’t find the piece he wrote particularly objectionable, but I also decided not to engage with him, because I know where he does in the comment columns – it is there he is at his worst.
LikeLike
That’s true. You have full control of the content on your site. You and Jess can made decide for yourselves what you want this site to be. For me, I won’t give a megaphone to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. Let someone else give him a microphone. Not me; but this is not my site.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I appreciate your view, and tend toward it. Had the post itself been offensive, it would not have gone up. As I say, it is best to avoid commenting because that is where he tends to lose it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Its the credibility that you give to him by posting such gibberish that is disappointing. I took it as a joke and threw a little silliness at it. And I agree, it is in the comments where he always leads us to the same familiar places. But besides ignoring him he isn’t truly a participant. I think troll is an apt description.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I doubt anyone reading him gave him much credibility – at least no one who did not have a taste for that sort of thing.
LikeLike
Nobody should have given him any credibility but you loaned him yours. I can write a gibberish commentary and submit to a major paper but I have no right to expect it to be published. If they do, it is a sign that this paper takes my viewpoint seriously and thereby is lending their credibility to the author. It is a case of how loose or how tight you want to hold the reins. Too tight, and the readership is only an echo of your own thoughts. Too loose and nobody will take the site seriously.
LikeLike
Chalcedon – what worries me about his post is that the wacky line taken is an approach that breeds anti-Semitism (in the German holocaust only 1 in 3 Jews were exterminated; when Jacob’s trouble comes it will be 2 in 3, etc ….)
As far as GT is concerned – on the one hand, yes: the past is repented of, moved on from, let’s thank God for this and not mention it excessively. On the other hand, he was sympathising with people who also had a wacky interpretation of Scripture which led to blatant anti-Semitism.
Under such circumstances, I’d have expected his approach towards Bosco to be somewhat different and more, shall we say, ‘pastoral’. I don’t think that shouting ‘you b*****d’ plays a helpful role in leading someone out of grave error.
LikeLiked by 1 person
We all have our own ways of moving on. I doubt there’s anything anti-Semitic in Bosco’s figures.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Disappointing. I thought good brother Jock had something akin to a handle on the scriptures. It leads me to doubt if he is led by the holy ghost. He sort of accuses me of anti Semitism when I say that in Jacobs Trouble, 2thirds of the Jews will be killed. That’s 2/3rds of the jews in Jerusalem. No charge for the bible study.
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
There is another passage that fleshes it out even more, but I weary to find it. Suffice it to say that good brother Jock is blind naked miserable and wretched. He dares to besmirch me when he is dead wrong and stupid.
LikeLike
Bosco – I’m relieved to hear that you don’t have an anti-Semitic agenda.
I’d say that you are in grave danger of using Scripture itself for prognostication and we know (Deuteronomy 18 for example) that God finds prognostication ‘detestable’.
The ‘Jacob’s trouble’ passage from Jeremiah seems clearly and plainly to me to be referring to the situation current at the time of writing; Judah being led into captivity and God promising that they would be returned, a promise which was fulfilled in Ezra and Nehemiah.
Why can’t you simply hold to your basic message and keep it simple? You’re at your best when you make fun of the pomposity of some aspects of RCC worship, their emphasis on the Eucharist, vestments, etc … so that one wonders what Jesus thought he was doing when he preached the sermon on the mount – no altar, no fancy building, no choir, no vestments, no sacrament. When you reduce it to the simple message – Jesus loves you and is ready to receive you – pointing out that the huge Catholic catechism is like fitting wheels to a tomato – time consuming and completely unnecessary – then your comments are good.
But you don’t just dismiss the pompous nonsense of the RCC; you want to see people weighted down with a whole bunch of other requirements – basically accepting all this whacko end times nonsense.
You spend a lot of time raking the dirt, showing that Catholic bishops, cardinals and popes are sinners. Well, I think we all knew that, because we’re all sinners.
When you take Scripture literally and you read the end of the book of Ezekiel, with the temple of the New Jerusalem all measured out, do you think that there will be morning and evening animal sacrifices? Because that’s what Ezekiel tells us will happen – contradicting the fact that Jesus was the ‘once for all’ sacrifice, who fulfilled the ceremonial law – thus ending the animal sacrifices. And before any Catholic tries suggesting that Ezekiel was referring to the mass – no, he wasn’t considering re-presentation of a once-for-all sacrifice that had already been made. So you have great difficulties if you try to take this literally.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I believe there will be animal sacrifices when the jews build the temple again. They don’t accept Christ.
Its OK if you don’t care about future events in the bible. There is nothing we can do about them. I present them here for those who will be left behind. You see, they will have one more chance to be saved, by being beheaded, but they cant take the Mark. Maybe they will remember these words.
LikeLike
I backed up everything I said with scripture and verse.
This was started as a protestant blog by good sister Jess. You papist have hijacked it.
LikeLike
Looks like I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t Bosco – as you’ll see my decision was not universally popular.
LikeLike
As you noted yourself, there was nothing offensive to anyone. It was the regular opponents of Bosco who hate anything I say. I made special effort not to mention any particular religion. Anyone who felt convicted was convicted by their own evil deeds and spirit. I thank you for your steadfast adherence to the spirit of this protestant bog my brother.
I stayed away from most of the book of Rev, because its difficult to understand. My understanding of it changes every now and then. Its dishonest for me to pronounce on it when tomorrow I might change my mind about it. Never the less, I would like to do a post on a small section of Rev in the near future, if you don’t mind.
Thank you for your bravery in the face of opposition to free speech.
LikeLiked by 1 person
As I say, I sometimes think I’m the last defender of it – as we go here from you to QVO – who has been quiet of late.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I realize that my history as a rabid anti catholic has left a bad taste in the mouths of devotees in here. They cant forgive me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m afraid that’s the case.
LikeLiked by 1 person
What the papists here fail to realize is….that I truly admire the real catholics… and spew out of my mouth the fair weather catholics. If one is to be in a religion….be in that religion. Don’t water it down.
LikeLike
Quiav the Great…..Arise!
LikeLike
Ive been studying torture methods of the CC during their reign on this earth. I have no sympathy of the attacks on me by papists.
LikeLike
Yes, good points to make.
LikeLiked by 1 person