Jessica has opened up a few doors that we might explore more extensively in order that we might see more clearly what has gone wrong in our societies and in our families in less than a hundred years. This is my first step in peeking behind just one of those doors.
The reason for bringing this up is twofold. First, to observe that all people do not have the same family or societal/religious experience and second, that not everyone reacts to their experiences in the same way.
Jessica is an advocate of God’s love being offered (by the evangelist or Church) as the first approach to the sinful soul or to the soul who has distanced themselves entirely from Christianity; those ignorant of even the basics of what Christianity is about. There is nothing wrong with Jess’s method if we are prudent in our examination of the individual and limit it to particular types of persons. I say this because human psychology and the needs of individuals is not homogenous but quite varied. This is also true of the evangelists who are attempting to work with such people.
I would like to take Jess’s largely valid premise and change the subject a tad in order to analyze the prevailing psychology of the persons we are most apt to come accross in our daily lives and in a macro sense, the general makeup of a great number of nations (not to exclude many in our dwindling Christian culture as well). Many individuals, churches and even nation states take the ‘love first’ approach with persons who exhibit poor and even criminal behavior. The thinking is that they are showing God’s unconditional love; a love without boundaries. For the last 50 years this has been practiced in the home by many a well-meaning parent. Schools also, have adopted the practice of teaching self-esteem, ending punishment and any useful form of discipline. Sadly the outcome has been abysmal; serving to only strengthen and aggravate the inevitible destruction of the development of a valid sense of character within such children; losing their trust in authority, their understanding of right and wrong and even of what is considered just or unjust. Justice is to many of these persons seen only through the lens of what benefits them personally.
A child who has a nature to push the limits of norms and love itself, must be given limits and boundaries which are fixed. When a parent ‘spares the rod’ or does not put limits and boundaries on the behavior of their child, it too often creates a person of such self-absorption that they become unfit for the workplace or to live in a civilized world. Parents might wrongly think that they are showing the depth of their love by allowing the child to get away with anything and by taking their side when they find themselves corrected in school, in an altercation with some authority, or actually breaking the laws of the land. What actually occurs in many of these children is quite the opposite of what the parent intended; to form a child who is psychologically strengthened by the knowledge that their parent loves them unconditionally. Many such children seem to become all the more self-centered, losing empathy and care for others, and actually feel that the parent is totally indifferent to them (not caring what they say, think or do) and thus they become imprinted with a false Messiah complex or at least tend toward a narcissistic personality. These pathologies are sometimes a cry for help rather than a mere mistake in judgement. Much of this is caused by the affirmation of their inappropriate behavior which they receive daily at home, in school and from a willing society that prefers to coddle rather than correct. These children at times may escalate their bad behavior for attention and actually long for the correction they have never had. It is a sign that the parent has instilled within the child a worth that is purely utilitarian; it is better to exonerate than to lose face in the community or sully their good name. They do not see themselves, or anyone for that matter, of being of some intrinsic value to society much less to God. The worst of these children (the social experiments of the past 100 years) will turn to whatever they desire regardless of cultural ethos, parental wishes, societal standards or common laws because they either want to test the limits or they have become so confirmed in their self worth that they no longer think that the values of their parents, elders, society or God applies to them. They manifest this behavior in various mental and moral deficiencies that can make them some of this world’s most vile members; drug addicts, sadists, masochists, lewd, spiteful, liars, manipulative and in extreme cases completely unfeeling of others and even hateful of still others. For the use of other people to them is purely fashioned upon what they themselves get out of a relationship to suit their own purpose or desire. If taken far enough, serial killers, Munchausen Syndromers, NPD’s and other maladjusted psychopaths become the extreme result. They enjoy pity or applause and fame; victimhood or adulation. There are no laws or boundaries which apply to them and God would only require them to abandon all they have ever lived for; they are the center of their world and the world should bow to them or feel sorry for them and allow them privileges that nobody else receives. Such people feel (and take for granted) that they are smarter than other people and that the world is rather ignorant and only useful if it can be exploited for their own pleasure and well being. When they tire of a person, or they lose their utilitarian purpose, former allies are discarded or eliminated. This, it seems, is the dire results which may occur; an epitome of the ‘spoiled child’ resulting from the ‘sparing of the rod’.
Such people are not unredeemable, of course, but it does require a method that is far removed from telling them that God loves them just as they are; for they need no additional justification to bolster their ever swelling egos, self-adulation and beliefs that they are above all laws. How to reach them, once they have fallen deep into this mental illness, is the question of the age; the modernist age.
Those who benefit from the approach by Jessica seems to me to be a dwindling population largely due to this dissolution of the healthy family, which has perverted the values of society and now has even effected changes in the laws of the land (to accomodate these very same people); for, the well adjusted, were raised to respect a moral ethos which bound us all together even if it only lies dormant in the recesses of their minds. This declining population largely comes from those who were raised to know good from evil and parents that lived in a society that condemned much of the immorality that is now accepted as normal behavior. Sadly, with broken families on the rise and the failure of our schools, these folks are in danger of extinction. But in such cases that, by God’s grace, some have escaped this slide into the abyss, there are a good number of people left presently who may have discovered that they have been used, fooled or cajoled into sin even if it were the lies they told to themselves. They usually have a list of excuses to help them justify their sin. For such as these there is still some understanding that there is truth to the concept of good or evil. Love might well be a path that will help such individuals.
Another group that may benefit from this loving approach are those who were raised in dysfunctional families where they have never felt love at all. They were abused by many methods and feel worthless and unloved. They desire a pure love which isn’t simply a form of being used for the desires of others to simply be discarded later. They are looking for a lasting love and one that isn’t judgmental as to where they have been in the past or how they ended up due to the circumstances in their lives. They are skeptical that such love even exists and when they find a love that wants nothing in return, save a return of love and obedience to that love, then the cycle of abuse might end and a profound change might take place which allows them to escape the ever repeating tail chasing that always ends the same way; in hurt and disappointment.
I personally think that broken families, the onslaught of changing societal morality codes and changes in law (legalizing immorality) has made of a predominantly healthy society one that is presently on life-support. Our Churches more than ever must learn how to deal with all people of all kinds of backgrounds without compromising the moral codes that once forged great societies that valued integrity, honesty, empathy and sympathy for others. But the codes of conduct need be once again reflected in society and the job of the Church is not to be simply another political player in this restructuring of society but the conscience of any society which visibly keeps the moral values alive and resists those trends which continually want to strip all morality from our cultural heritage: a Church that teaches that there are such things as objective truths and denies the existence of subjective truths. The evil one’s battle today seems to be one of realism versus relativism and he has made very good progress to date thanks to our complicity in the acceptance of all the false ‘goods’ which he has offered.
Satan has been very successful in spoiling the dignity and worth of mankind. Even love has become so much foolishness when our own love of self is so esteemed.
Dave, as I was reading through your post it brought forth a conversation that I was having with a student yesterday. I am currently teaching one on one with a student that they call “alternative learning,” which is the safe word for in school suspension. However, as I was talking to this student about my school experienced he told me, “My father went to Catholic school, but he sent me to public school to be exposed to diversity and other cultures.”
Of course, I didn’t really say much being Catholic, but the student took it as me not understanding and further explained, ” You know, just being around white Christians.”
At this point, I thought the whole assertion made by the student and his father ridiculous. So his father to spare this student from “truth” for the sake of “diversity” sent him to public school where he now acts out and has to sit in a room alone with a white Catholic… … Oh the irony.
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Oh the social experiments that they play with our children, Philip. When my son went from Middle School to High School he was in a special program for gifted students. They decided to put the gifted students in classes with older, underperforming students (in short – the troublemakers who weren’t doing well). This too was for diversity and in the hopes that the young bright kids would be a help to the older, less intelligent kids. It was a disaster. The older kids made fun of the younger ones and in order to be accepted by them had to dumb themselves down to their level. These are the geniuses that are playing with restructuring of our society at the expense of our children. They are simply lab rats to be studied and to write a book about.
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I also witnessed a kid attempt to steal out of lost and found. He then told the teacher telling him that caught him that he knew the stuff wasn’t his but he’d take when she was gone.
Is this the diversity in thought that society wants? When my college professor told me that I had to respect someone else’s beliefs.
Of course, you should have seen the deer in the headlights look when I said, “No, actually, I don’t.” I’m sure she wanted to call me a bigot or something of the nature.
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You crossed the line Philip. We are to coddle any inappropriate behavior and understand it in the light of their ethnicity, culture or economic background. But if you hold to values that fly into the face of their one truth (diversity and tolerance) it is a sign that you are fit to be locked up from society. Now it is the common man with common sense who is insane and the insane are now the ones teaching the classes and deforming consciences. The inmates are truly running the asylum today.
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Thank you, dear friend for these reflections.
I am not sure whether you are attributing what I would call progressive measure in education and social policy to an interpretation of Christianity, but if so, it must be an American phenomenon – here they come straight from progressive theories of education based on psychology. Here there’s a clear distinction between what some churches call for and what the courts and schools do. As a teacher of now about 10 years standing, I can honestly say I have never seen the lack of discipline and the rest put down to Christian teaching. I would agree on the detrimental effects, but would add the parents into the mix – at home and at school an attitude which fails to set and police boundaries does not help. I now teach in the private sector in the UK, and can only say that here, that attitude is not prevalent – parents are paying a lot and they take an active interest – sometimes too active an interest, in their child’s performance. How many individuals fall into some of the extreme categories you mention, I don’t know – I have known some, but not many.
Here, the Church has more or less abdicated any position in the public sphere, which is a shame, but I don’t see its calls, either way, having much effect. America has more churches and more Christians, and yet seems headed the same way. Very odd to me. I wish I knew what we could do about it.
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Likewise, Jessica. Indeed, I must speak from an American perspective and my view of Western Europe is probably inadequate – though it appears that this self-absorption and manipulative posturing is alive and well in societies all over the place. It seems to me that even us older folks who lived at a time when society was far different than it is today, are also affected. The radical changes, usually start in schools, but there has to be a compliance within the homes as well. I think the psychologists (which we all used to trust) told new parents how we had been rearing our children wrong until they came along. And their advice seemed to only make things far worse.
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I’m certainly lost for answers. I wish–being Catholic– the American Catholic Bishops would start throwing their weight around and call for excommunication and the withholding of the sacrament from those who are clearly at odds with the Church. Of course, this is not to say mercy isn’t an option to the repentant. I wonder if it’s due to all the scandals they fail to act. It’s not as if VP Joe Biden, for example, would care, he’s already chosen the other side. However, it may be wisdom to acknowledge and clarify the line.
In regards to public schools in the States, students basically dictate what goes on. I had a student who didn’t want to work and asked to go to the office. I asked him Why? The response I received was because “I’m angry.”
I thought in my head, “What!? sit down that’s not a reason.” However that’s a typical response in the schools, the students can only speak on the level of their emotions and it appears we’re not allowed to teach them even reason and philosophy.
God help us.
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Religions and their moral decay are why people are turned off of them. Especially the catholic variety and their top heavy pedophilia. People associate religion with Christianity. In reality, Christ has nothing to do with religions.
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Dave – I wonder if you have specific examples in mind? Or is this simply an abstract reflection?
Also – recently some Muslims perpetrated an atrocity in Brussels. I’m wondering about the attitude of ‘love first’ towards these people; how is it expressed?
Also – you observe that ‘not all people do not have the same family or societal/religious experience’. While this may be relevant, I think its relevance can be overstated.
I can indicate some things about the revival in Scotland between 1860 and 1910 and how the country lost its way by looking at the particular example of a village and two twins that came from that village (names omitted). Before the revival reached that village, there was a serious drink problem. Part of this was because the fish merchants paid the fishermen, at least in part, in rum. Then the Salvation Army came along and put a stop to it. Other Christian groups (Faith Mission, for example) came along and you had a village that lived by The Book. They were very strict; alcohol strictly prohibited in that village (and if you understand what was going horribly wrong towards the end of the 19th century, you see the wisdom of this). One humorous aspect: when British Rail opened a railway hotel there, they soon had to close it when they discovered that they couldn’t get a license and turned it into an apartment block. I know the twins. Their father was a poor fisherman, who came to a saving knowledge of Christ in 1923 and instantly gave up smoking and drinking as a result. He brought up his daughters by the book. One of the twins came to Christ, saw exactly what they had been saved from, the work-ethic and frugal, parsimonious living that was brought about by faith and what Christ had done. Maybe the strictures of the Sabbath were harsh, but she knew what was behind it all. Her family are now all Christians, living good decent lives.
The other twin, if you speak to her, she only ever remembers just how dismal and gloomy Sundays were – she wasn’t allowed to do anything; she fails to understand why the village was ‘dry’. She considers Christianity to be foolishness – and her family are all ‘off the rails’.
So you can have two twins, exactly the same ‘initial conditions’ and very different results.
That village has entirely lost sight of what saved it in the first place; the despair of alcoholism that was cured by the Holy Spirit in the revival – and far from being a dry village, now has a serious drugs problem.
Go figure. That is one example of a tiny village, but I think the general principle holds up and down the land. People completely lose sight of what they were saved from, laugh at the serious and sincere faith of their fathers. The only thing they can see about it is just how excruciatingly dull Sundays were. God says, ‘if that’s the way you want it, then that’s the way you’re going to have it’.
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Well Jock, that is the kind of example that I had in mind. Though more to the point would be that people generally are affected along a spectrum of things. It depends on so much. Even the reading of good literature can help restore that which one did not get from their local society, school or home for that matter. But, to some extent, we all feel or deal with these changes to a greater or lesser extent. Especially when governments change, and the morals of a nation change; there are consequences that must be paid.
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We Christians all misrepresent God and His love, to some extent. Yes, of course we should do our God-given best to love unconditionally as He loved us unconditionally and drew us to Him.
From what I have seen, though, you should look first to those who have rejected God’s love rather than to the Christians who have supposedly responsible by supposedly misrepresented God’s love by presenting the Christian life as off-puttingly puritanical.
Those who were prepared to see what lay behind the puritanical front had immeasurably more, not only in terms of God’s love, but also in terms of the Fruit of the Spirit, the work ethic and everything that goes with Christian living than those who decided that it was unutterable stupidity.
From the village I mentioned, I’ll relate the tragic story of a grandmother who lived by the book. One day her grandson dropped by to see her. He complained of a headache and went to lie down and he never woke up – drug overdose. The younger generation had nothing but contempt for the Spiritual side of their grandparents lives, but the grandparents had so much more. Yes, the grandmother’s lifestyle may have been puritanical; yes, it may have been somewhat off-putting and a matter of ridicule for her grandchildren; she had so much more.
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She did indeed. But how to reach those who have been seduced by the world, the flesh and the devil? The support structures, of society, laws, peer pressure and family are all crumbling. At times I do not see much that we can do other than let the world know that we reject it as it is and we are going to live our life for God and God alone. In doing so, we are going to declare Christian truths and try to live by them. When we fail, we will admonish our behavior and repent so that we might once again get back on the proper path. I don’t see anything else we can do. Telling them that God loves them, even in their sin (which is true), is not the message they need. The drug addict will simply say, that’s nice; I guess there’s no reason to change my mode of living then.
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Dave – yes, I agree with all of this. God loves them in their sin – and he wants to rescue them. Christianity should try to get back to something simple – like what the Salvation Army were doing. They told them that God loved them unconditionally – and at the same time did everything they could to get them off the bottle. There was never any idea of ‘God loves you unconditionally – therefore you needn’t bother’.
The woman I mentioned died about 15 years ago. For the rest of her life, after the death of her grandson, she was haunted by all these questions – was she responsible? Had she been too puritanical? Did the grandson go astray and fail to come to Christ because she was such a lousy witness? In fact, her life was a tremendous witness – and I’d say her grandson fell into drugs despite of, rather than because of, her witness.
Of course, for the general principle, the parable of the prodigal son is of extreme importance; we can infer (even though it isn’t explicitly stated) that his father earnestly prayed for him and God answered his prayer. The famine and the entire course that brought the son to his knees and to his senses was engineered by the Divine Hand. The love was unconditional; it wasn’t ‘I’ll continue to love him, but only if he repents of his sin’, but the love was directed towards him leaving his life of sin and returning to the family. Of course, on the return of the prodigal son, the father gained so much more than he had actually lost. He had lost a son who was distinctly unimpressed and restless; he gained a willing, obedient son.
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That is true, Jock. Of course it goes both ways: there is nothing more joyful than to see a sinner who repents and finds God and there is nothing more lamentable than to see a man of God fall into a life of sin. One is pulled up from a great abyss and the other has fallen from a great height. Such realities should keep us mindful of the seriousness of life.
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You don’t go to hell for someones else sin. You go to hell because you weren’t saved.
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…And good and hard, too.
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I’m confused. The reason I offer Christian love inside jails and prisons is because our Lord all but commanded me to go there and find him there (cf. CCC 1373). I’m instead supposed to adopt a policy of taking that love only where I think it fit for God to work his grace, based on a social theory that echoes what a lot of post-Christian political partisans talk about?
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Good for you Santa. I too had a prison ministry not so many years ago. I didn’t start by telling them that they didn’t belong where they were but because they made bad decisions. I also impressed on them why the moral laws of the Church are easy to abide by because they are pleasing to Him Whom I love above all other persons and things; a Divine Person who suffered and died for my sins and for theirs. I also made it clear that I probably would be where they are now. The difference is that they got caught and I did not. It means that I must do penance as they are doing penance physically in jail in my own way. Nobody should expect to break the laws of God and Church and not suffer some form of penance for their actions. I don’t know how you approach them but it does sometimes differ if you are speaking one on one or to a crowd as I was.
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Its a good thing that you went to prisons and ministerd. But pushing the catholic brand of religion doesn’t help. Christ and him crucified is all that is needed.
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Santascoffee – you are commanded to offer Christian love everywhere, but it will not always be accepted.
One colleague of mine had to visit prisons, in his capacity as a university mathematics tutor. He had to visit someone who had been banged up for ‘creative accountancy’ and who was taking an Open University degree in accountancy (my colleague dealing with the mathematics and statistics modules) in order to improve his accountancy skills, so that his accountancy could be more ‘creative’ when he got out and he might have less chance of getting caught the next time. He made no bones about this. His studies were (of course) paid for by Her Majesty’s Government.
My colleague was given to understand (by the prison wardens) that he laughed in the face of any prison visitor who came with a view to sharing Christian love.
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The pop psychologists among us as we were growing up would nod their heads sagely and say “If you knew all, you would forgive all” , the subtext being that if God was all-knowing He was all-forgiving or He was a rotter!!
One of my sisters worked in Saudi Arabia in the late ’70’s. She was astonished to see gold and other fine goods laid out on stalls and outside of shops – displayed like cabbages at home, yet they were never touched. The penalty for theft was to have one’s hand cut off so petty theft was non existent.
When the Jews in the OT let God down He punished them until they changed their ways. Jonah also, until he preached repentence to the Ninivites.
Nature has no mercy on the foolish either.
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Indeed, many still don’t get the idea of the gift of freewill, which God will not violate. If by freewill we refuse to repent and try to sin no more, do not think confession and purpose of amendment necessary, or think our sins too much for God to forgive then what is God to do? We are led to living waters but we are not forced to drink. Foolishness is right. Why would anyone refuse such a act of mercy?
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I think I just found another way to explain much of what I think has gone wrong and continues to go wrong: (ALL BASEBALL FANS SHOULD READ THIS)
http://www.sperrybaseballlife.com/stay-at-17-inches/
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How wide was that plate again? 🙂
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For you it’s 17 inches but for me it’s about 17 feet.
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