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This is the second part of David Monier-Williams’ account of his theraputic practice
The Hows
What would you expect to experience in your first visit to a therapist? Since most operate on a 55min schedule, the first thing out of the therapists mouth after greeting you would be, “ How can I best help you?” your answer would be what is called, “The presenting problem.” most of the rest of the session would hopefully the therapist building rapport with you and taking what is know as your history.
In subsequent session depending of the type of therapy involved, the underlying beliefs of that particular therapy would come into play. In other words, the particular beliefs of the therapist presuppose that there are round holes and you’re a square peg. Since, I what I do doesn’t fall into that category, I’m not going to comment on what to expect in future sessions. It would be up to you to investigate the particulars of the therapy and be aware whether that is something you want to pursue.
I have practiced Neuro-linguistic Programming (NLP) and Ericksonian Hypnosis for 25 years. My practice has been varied but mostly with women who’ve been abused, Vets with PTSD and marriage and relationship counseling.
NLP is the study of the structure of subjective experience and the modeling of excellence. It has no belief system and no round holes or pegs. What it does have is a set of working presuppositions based on the works of Milton Erickson and Gregory Bateson:
1. The Meaning of your communication is the response you get.
2. There’s no such thing as Failure only Feedback.
3. People have the resources to accomplish their goals.
4. There’s a positive intention behind every behaviour.
5. Power is the ability to produce the intended results. (Power is flexibility not “control over”or “power over.”) The law of Requisite Variety states, “The person or system with the greatest flexibility controls any given situation.”
6. People make the best choices available to them.
7. The map is not the territory. (But it don’t make it so.
If two people watch a sunrise, then spend a leisurely hour at breakfast chatting about the sunrise, each will have experienced it very differently based on their past experiences which in total formed their limited beliefs, values and behaviours).
So our brains (neuro) have been programmed by our experiences (linguistic programming). These positive and negative(traumas) early childhood experiences bring challenges of how they deal with the world around them e.g. stuttering, resultant abuse symptoms, phobias, violence, multiple unsuccessful marriages/relationships etc.
One set of possible responses is, “Get over it, get on with it, I have. Man up, it’s not a big deal.” If this is your model of the world read no further. You have the answer. If on the other hand, you can understand that not everyone is like you and their models of the world are different, then we can move on.
The first thing you learn in NLP is how to build rapport. Rapport is easy with those you like not so much with those you don’t. It’s like a thermostat, fully flexible as the temperature moves in either direction. There are many ways to build it. The real flexibility is to know how to build it, know when you’ve lost it, know how to get it back and above all know the difference.
You can’t help anyone with anything without on-going rapport.
The rest of NLP is becoming familiar with the various speech patterns that people use and the various different processes to help them have more choice, options and possibilities.
As a beginning, I use the Enneagram, the most effective and dynamic archetype of personality. It was started by the Sufis a long time ago. It is a set of nine basic personality types around a circle. The basic types form an isosceles triangle. The top one is the Mediator, the one on the right the Performer and on the left the Devil’s Advocate. I listen for the occupation and speech patterns that help me identify the basic and secondary types. This will give me some of their beliefs but most importantly the chinks in armour.
The next thing that important for everyone is how you spatially perceive time. Some always believe that there’s never enough of it, some that it always passes too slowly. How you perceive time is how you lead your life. How you perceive it is totally idiosyncratic though not always useful and helpful. For many the future is in front and the past behind. The latter so it can come and kick you in ass from time to time. Others think of it as them in the middle of two concentric circles, with the future running in one direction and the past in the other. This, by the way, is how you’re at cross purposes to yourself—quite literally. There are as many other configurations as there are people.
The most useful Timelines, as they’re called, is the InTimeline which passes through your body, the past behind , the present inside of you and the future in front of you, and the ThruTimeline, which is tangentially touching the center of your chest, the past off to your left at a 45 degree angle and the future to your right at a 45 degree angle. The InTimeline is used to motivate you to your goals, the ThruTimeline give your future possibilities and options when you run into life’s obstacles.
There is a whole lot more to NLP which together with Ericksonian Hypnosis took over two years of experiential training.
So now let me describe to you my initial work with a Vet with PTSD. Btw, I would use similar techniques with a woman who had been abused as the only differences are frequency and intensity.
I met with Joe, that’s not his real name, he’d spent four months in Iraq at the beginning of Desert Storm. He not only suffers from PTSD but also Fibromyalgia.
After I explained that his perception of his experiences were about how he perceived time I elicited his Timeline. He had two concentric circles around him. I stood behind him and with his two arms crossed in front of his I grabbed hold of both his wrists from behind and I asked him to walk into his future and to be aware of what was happening to him. He said, “I’m confused.” I pointed out that this was also in English to be at cross-purposes to oneself…quite literally. I broke the circles, straightened them out and attached his past Timeline to his back, it stretched out all the way back to in utero and the future to his front going forward. This was his new IntimeTimeline. I helped him install and optimize a future goal out six month into the future. Then I had him install a ThruTimeline which was a Vee shaped line tangentially attached to his chest. The past at a 45 degree off to his left and his future the same degree of to his right. I had him notice the difference of the goal in front of hin versus at a 45 degree off to his right. The latter offering possibilities the former motivation.
I had him then begin to deal with his past by identifying a minor stressful event on his InTimeline behind him. I had him replay the event there and then put it on his Thrutimeline and relive it disassociated. That is to say, to his left and had him watch it instead of being inside of it. The latter was less stressful. Ergo by changing the location of a stressor you change the perception. In NLP it’s called RWS…real weird shit! This instilled in him that change can happen quickly.
I had him put his ThruTimeline on the floor and had him watch the bright healing light come from before his birth into him and out into the future, then I had him step four paces forward, between his past and his future into, “out of time” so as I could instill Joe’s uniqueness of Joe. It was just a wee bit of trance work.
I had him put out his past ThruTimeline and throw all his traumas on it. There were 12 going back to age 6. Guess what? All the traumas were in chronological order. Before working on the past ThruTimeline, the Fibromyalgia in the joints of his hands and legs were an 8 on a scale of 1-10. The three most stressful events on his ThruTimeline were 10s. The first two were from his time in Iraq.
Here’s a question for you, have you ever watched a home movie as a child? If so, at the end, the person re-threaded it and ran it backwards to the beginning, and everyone laughed to see and hear people moving and talking backwards. Rather than what the VA does here or in the UK having the people run the trauma forwards re-living it…Damn it, run the bloody thing backwards!
OK, there’s a trick to this. In order to run it backwards, you have to run it forwards. Well, how do you do that and not have the person re-live it. You do it by having him do it initially from a multi-dissociated position. In NLP it’s called The Phobia Cure. I had him imagine himself in his favourite movie house sitting the best seat in the house. I had him put on the screen a still picture of what was happening just before the trauma started. Then I had him float out of his body and sit at the far left aisle seat so he could watch himself watching the trauma. At the end of the trauma he was to nod his head. Then I would tell him to jump into the movie and run it backwards to the beginning, in colour in three seconds so that everyone and everything moved and talked backwards. This, of course, would be too difficult for him as the trauma was too intense. So I had him go from the aisle chair and float out through an opening in the roof to the surface of the moon.
I had him on the moon with his back to the screen looking through a handheld periscope like the one for looking above crowds at a golf match. From there he could barely make out his other self in the movie house and he could watch himself watching the movie for him in safety. From the moon’s surface I had him jump into the movie and run it backwards. That was fine. When I brought him half way back to earth he said he couldn’t go on I asked him why, he said he needed his son. I said you’ve got your son. We repeated the process …that was OK too. I got him and his son to the opening in the roof of the theatre when he stopped and told me he couldn’t go on that he had to tell me the story.
He was in an convoy from Baghdad to Kuwait as they entered a town he saw the legs of a person on one side of the street the torso on the other and everything else across the street. On his side was sitting a little boy with most of his insides out. He went over tried to push his intestines back in. The boy grabbed his thumb looked at him and died, while his mother was on the other side of the road screaming and crying. He remembers nothing till he was back in base. He was then told it took three men to prize him from the boy who was cradled in his arms.
Joe had a cross around his neck. I asked if he was a man of Faith. He said, “Yes.” I asked him if he knew where that child was, he said, “with God.” I then in my own special and different way had him “offer the bitter root to Christ.” This involves three chairs. The person sitting in the one at the center, putting Christ in the left one and another holy person of his choice in the other. Then I had, with both his hands, bring out all his problems and hold them between his hands in front of him. We then established the shape, size, colour and weight of all his problems. Then slowly he gave them to the holy person and I allowed him to notice how everything began to change as the holy person gave it to Christ who continued the change and gave the change problems back to him. I then had him take out those problems again in his hands and notice the radical change. Catharsis!
We finished off the Phobia Cure now with his TWO sons at the opening of the roof of the theatre repeating the process. Finally with his two sons in the aisle seat.. It was done over, schluss basta, aus!
The two most stressful items were now Zeros and his Fibromyalgia was a 5.
What a great relief for him. He and I knew he was on his way.
As for me, it was a journey of mental tap dancing like crazy and my imagination working overtime. It was some day!
It had only taken two hours from start to finish.
This is how I begin to help people with their problems but it’s only the beginning. From there I have to help him deal with his inner conflicts and dichotomies, re- prioritize his criteria and expand his limiting beliefs all supported by new behaviours.
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
As expected, New Age nonsense condemned by your own Church – but I am sure that won’t stop you. Here are the references:
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/994/a_dangerous_practice.aspx
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4634
https://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/ENNEAGRA.HTM
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/enneagram.htm
http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_Enneagram.html
http://naminghisgrace.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/authority-of-scripture-enneagram-and.html
Mind you, the gnostic rubbish apart, you gave me the biggest laugh ever – no wonder poor old Joe was confused.
You must know the view your Church takes on this, but like so many New Agers, prefer to ignore to teaching of your own Church.
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Dave Smith said:
My apologies, my friend . . . it turns out that you are right. Enneagrams are gnostic and pagan nonsense. Here are a few quotes from some reputable Catholics:
Father Pacwa says:
“I have two criticisms [of Enneagram]. First, it’s theological nonsense, suffused with Gnostic ideas. For instance, the nine points of the Enneagram are called the “nine faces of God,” which become nine demons turned upside down. No one should speak that way. . . . And the way the Enneagram is taught is Pelagian — self-salvation through a man-made technique, not by God’s grace.”
“Secondly, this is a psychological system that hasn’t been tested by professional psychologists. We have no independent evidence that it’s true. As a result, Enneagram experts — who aren’t necessarily aware of the occult aspects — are making up descriptions as they go along. It’s irresponsible to pass this off as true.”
Msgr. William Smith in [3] states similarly:
“The basic premise of the Enneagram is that there are nine and only nine personality types; this is simply given as true, it is nowhere demonstrated as proven. To my knowledge, there are no scientific studies to determine whether Enneagram theory can be integrated with other typologies; but that would not really bother some advocates one way or the other… The more you read about it, the more it begins to resemble a college-educated horoscope; and that is not compatible with Catholic doctrine or practice. ….”
“As a tool for spiritual direction, it seems to me most deficient, even dangerous. The Enneagram is really built on a theology (?)-perhaps ideology-of self-renewal and self-regeneration that is a far cry from (perhaps contradiction of) the Gospel teaching: ‘Amen, amen, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains just a grain of wheat; but if it dies, it produces much fruit’ (John 12:24)”
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I have just provided him with a set of links, including that one. It is sheer gnostic nonsense – and at one with the sort of ‘Catholicism’ which prevails at the Casa del dancing monks.
Those, like ginny, who were defending DMW, should now explain how they can – having read this.
I have come across this thing before – we have a ‘white witch’ in the next town but one who practices it – the local Catholic priest recommends her. Quite why I would want to go anywhere near a church which could not see the gnostic nonsense here, who can tell!
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Dave Smith said:
This is where Tielhard leads . . . the nun’s on the bus . . . witches, warlocks, enneagrams, hypnosis, centering prayer, labyrinths and a host of pagan practices. Why a priest or bishop who puts value in any such thing is not run out of the Church is beyond me; it has no place in Christianity and is roundly condemned by the Catholic Church.
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chalcedon451 said:
Good for the Church. I daresay DMW has no problem with his Church not agreeing.
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Dave Smith said:
I guess not C. The NCCB issued warnings on this nonsense: https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3341
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chalcedon451 said:
I am hoping that ginny will stop backing DMW now she knows what he’s up to. My first comment provides anyone who wants it with a set of links.
As I said yesterday, I spotted this one coming. I have had dealings with these folk closer to home, and hilarious as DWM’s account is (really, did you ever read such stuff!) the reality is it misleads people. It is a sort of cult, and no Christian should go anywhere near it – let alone practice it.
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Dave Smith said:
I’m pretty sure as soon as she reads this latest account . . . Ginny will cringe. These cultists are all around . . . I’ve seen them all and they wax and wane. A few years ago it was A Course in Miracles that was all the rage among these New Agers.
I suppose we could start treating mental illness with pyramids and gemstones next. Astrology is starting to look like an old fusty conservative practice. 🙂
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ginnyfree said:
Sorry Geoffrey. If I’d known it was enneagrams that David was selling I’d have said different stuff. But even though what he is selling is evil, you still can’t be rude in calling the spade a spade. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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chalcedon451 said:
ginny – I was in correcting Geoffrey’s post for tomorrow and replied whilst doing so – the last few are from Geoffrey, not me – I apologise to you and most of all to geoffrey, I ought not to respond when editing!
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I am not quite clear what has happened – a few comments I made to you have appeared under Cs name – very odd!
I think it incumbent on Christians to be rude to the devil.
C – what happened?
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chalcedon451 said:
Geoffrey, sorry, I was editing your post and then forgot I was on my log in and so responded – many apologies.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
No problem C – I was just a bit puzzled! Do you disagree with me by the way?
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chalcedon451 said:
Profound apologies – you were transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
FWIW, yes, I do.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
No problem my dear fellow!
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chalcedon451 said:
It seems that when I am logged in doing your thing, your comments end up being mine – I must remember that!
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
It was very disorientating – but entirely my fault for needing you to help me out on that – thank you, by the way, the formatting problem is gone. I don’t know what you did – or what I had done – but the text is now perfect – thanks.
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chalcedon451 said:
A pleasure 🙂
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Eccles (@BruvverEccles) said:
Geoffrey is right of course. However, some allegedly Catholic organizations have bought into this. See, for example this one, which is just down the road from Bradford:
http://www.briery.org.uk/wordpress/themed-retreats/
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Dave Smith said:
Must be the New Evangelization. 🙂
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chalcedon451 said:
Odd you should mention that one … 😦
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I know of them – barmy, the lot of them!
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newenglandsun said:
After many counselors I’ve had these past few years, the current counselor I have has put me on a program that may actually work best for me–the contract program. I sign a contract agreeing not to harm myself until it expires then we start a new contract with a new time goal.
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ginnyfree said:
And you don’t lie?
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newenglandsun said:
No.
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Bosco the Great said:
Did your counselor tell you to flip a coin when you wake up in the morning?
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco, you really need to learn some maturity and grow up. You’re 40? Act like it.
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Bosco the Great said:
Sure thing champ.
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newenglandsun said:
That bulge–that’s a clown named Bosco the Great in there.
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newenglandsun said:
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/has-the-church-said-anything-against-the-enneagram
My apologies to Geoffrey–DMW, you are promoting pseudo-scientific hogwash.
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Bosco the Great said:
Aye, say good brother Newengland, what … do you know about science? …brother David is helping people…. [edited to remobe offensive comments. C451]
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newenglandsun said:
C,
I understand that you try to promote Mother’s concept of freedom of speech here but this is just too much. I wish for Bosco’s comments to me (at the very least and if possible) to be muted and trashed. I cannot stand to be insulted in such a way by such a clown.
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chalcedon451 said:
I understand. But no one who reads it will do other than know you are right. It actually reflects very poorly on him. I will edit it though.
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newenglandsun said:
Thank you. I wish he would leave me alone though as I feel sometimes when he communicates with me here like strangling him.
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chalcedon451 said:
You are not the only one I am sure 🙂
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh geeze good brother Newengland. Did I hurt your itsy bitsy feelings? Come on. I know you way better than these people in here know you.
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Philip Augustine said:
There’s two sides of therapy that I’ve seen. The “you need drugs” therapy and the New Age Therapy. I knew someone who was a therapist and she asked me if I believed in God and I said, “yes.” She smiled and went into this long speech and gave me a card to go to Reiki Crystal specialist if I needed healing. She told me a story how a baby was deformed that she had experienced in the womb and the mother did the ritual (I suppose is the word) and the baby was healed.
I just said thanks and that was it. I believed in the God, not her God.
However, I spoke to a college professor I knew was a former theologian and had respected. He said he use to go somewhere where the nuns did massages and one of them used reiki crystals and he didn’t feel any “evil” presence. I was a bit disturbed by the conversation.
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chalcedon451 said:
Some Catholics have taken this up. My first comment is a set of links which show that their Church does not approve this mumbo-jumbo.
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Philip Augustine said:
It’s merely stimuli– She said that a beam of light enters your head and you project it through your heart out of your hands.
I think one could get better benefits from praying the Rosary.
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Bosco the Great said:
Hahahahaha. Ive seen the images of this female the state run religion calls Mary, with beams of light coming out of her hands. The devotees soak this idolatry up. They love idolatry and hate the invisible god.
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Philip Augustine said:
I don’t think you understand what I wrote or what is idolatry or Catholicism’s view on Mary.
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Bosco the Great said:
Could be that I misunderstood your speech. The light coming from the hands reminded me of pics of a felae with light beams shooting out of her hands. Comps of the state run religion. Sorry if I jumped the gun. You are one of the few in here that I kinda agree with.
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Philip Augustine said:
The light was in regards to reiki new age practices. It had nothing to do with Catholicism or Mary/Rosary.
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ginnyfree said:
Okie dokie then. Geoffrey is partially right. I take it back. Enneagrams are witchcraft and a type of horoscope. They aren’t to be practiced at all by Christians. There was an attempt to legitimise this that was practically heroic in its struggles, but the truth about them is available. If I’d known you were using this as part of your regular practice, I’d probably have reacted closer to Geoffrey. I had a friend back home whose very Catholic marriage was ruined by his falling into the hands of a person who drew him into the use of enneagrams. He was struggling with stuttering and anxiety troubles brought on by a very domineering father. He was in sales and needed serious assistance in overcoming a speech problem. He’d been in counseling for it in his teen years thru school with an assigned speech therapist. Now he was an adult and the pressures of work and his basic problems with his father were re-creating a speech problem again. So, he sought help. He found a cut-rate counselor which was a big plus over the higher cost more traditional type of speech therapist. This gal introduced him to the Enneagram Method. He was exceedingly enthusiastic. He paid big bucks for the initial evaluation which included a complete personality profile along with a sort of road map for a fulfilling life. He was even given prayers to pray, chants to say, and a few other things. His goal was to live according to the fulfillment plan this gal came up with for him. It included a divorce and a career change as well as other things. Remember he only wanted speech therapy that had aided him in high school as his symptoms, anxiety and stuttering had returned. What he got was his life ruined: Marriage gone at the recommendation of the counselor, career changed because the stuttering worsened, the anxiety ignored or blamed on not chanting enough the babbling words and phrases he was given, but that isn’t he worst of it. He was a cradle Catholic as was his wife and child. But his actual practice of the faith was attacked by this gal and her “therapy.” He trusted her as he would a Confessor because of his Catholic background. And reason for his enthusiasm towards this new method for him came from the fact that this gal gave him a spiritual path towards healing and fulfillment instead of the usual therapy he was expecting. He’d never had any prayers offered by a therapist as a healing therapy before and it had a powerful effect on him. That’s what caught him off guard, I think. Prayers came from an Enneagram book which he showed me. I was a brand spanking new Catholic when he showed me the prayers he was supposed to pray and they were horrid. I was shocked that a Catholic would believe such nonsense, as he was asked to call on the spirits of things not human and not divine nor saintly. Mother Earth and company! He was also given chants that weren’t even real words that you’d recognize but I’m betting that if I had the pages he showed me in his little booklet of prayers and I looked them up today, I’d find invocations to various deities of other religions, most likely Hindi, etc. They seemed that way back then, but I really can’t recall. My Catholic Common sense tells me that if someone expects me to pray to a deity whose name I cannot pronounce nor understand for anything, they need to be told “No thanks!” Oh and guess what else? He was getting visitation with his little brand new daughter until the father-in-law witnessed him chanting some of the babbling b.s. he was given over her while holding her in his arms and rocking back and forth. This was such a disturbing sight, they went to the lawyer and stopped his visitation unless he got help! He was outraged. I clearly remember this phase of it all. He was nearly arrested for his angry outburst in the front yard of his father in law who he blamed for all of it! His anxiety got so overwhelming after all of this, he was hospitalized, nearly suicidal and heavily medicated. The last I heard of him was he was in a hospital and looking forward to a long-term stay. Yeah. I wasn’t the only one trying to pry the enneagram prayer booklet out of his hands. Quite a few of us did, including his wife, nearly his entire family, his priest and a few friends. Those things had a gripe on him that was incredible. He’d die rather than give it up! Wow. It was diabolical. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I have known of two such cases locally, which is why I have responded as I have. This is dangerous life-destroying nonsense, and if DWM is any sort of Catholic then he should have nothing to do with it.
If I have been rude, I do not, for once, apologise, somethings are worth being rude about. I am so, so, sorry for the man in your account, I know a man and a woman who have had similar experiences. If it were up to me, I’d ride this lot out of town on a rail.
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ginnyfree said:
One other thing about this case: they were actually suggesting a actual case of possession as a result. Like I said, the last I heard was them taking him away, court ordered long term care. But his priest and his wife and family WERE fearful of actual demonic possession. REALLY. It got THAT bad. Then hushed up because modern psychiatry has done away with all that medieval nonsense, hasn’t it? He never came back and his wife went back to her folks in her own country with the baby and that is the last I ever heard of it. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
That is very sad – and so like a case I know near here. Christians should stay away from such pagan nonsense. It is actually dangerous.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Agreed. Just what sort of Catholic is it who practices such mumbo-jumbo? I was there is the sixties and seventies, I saw all this New Age crap come in and wreck lives. I don’t say DMW does that, I don’t know, but his spoon is not long enough giving whom he sups with.
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Dave Smith said:
. . . and the next installment will be, The When of Therapy:
1. When the patient receives their paycheck
2. When the therapist needs to pay his mortgage
. . . and then the next installment will be, When does Therapy End?
1. When they find out they were hoodwinked
2. When they get religion
3. When they are institutionalized
PT Barnum was right, of course. There is a sucker born every minute.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
No wonder poor old Joe was confused:
‘ He had two concentric circles around him. I stood behind him and with his two arms crossed in front of his I grabbed hold of both his wrists from behind and I asked him to walk into his future and to be aware of what was happening to him.’
If DMW is seeing concentric circles around folk and grabbing them from behind, I’d be confused, but not so much that I wouldn’t clock him one.
Honest to goodness, what a load of piffle. How the man can write it with a straight face, who knows? I bet his two years ‘training’ didn’t come cheap either. It isn’t just his clients who are mugs, clearly.
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Dave Smith said:
Shhh, Geoffrey. I’m going to see if I can get him to start selling my mood rings to his clients.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Unless it came from some occult guru, you’ve no chance. Mind you, I’d guess you can get some Jesuit to approve of it.
BTW, what happened to the Jesuits? Did some one slip a whole tank of kool aid into whatever it is they drink?
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Dave Smith said:
They formed a hippie commune back in the 60’s and have on a decades long acid trip ever since.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I actually feel sorry for DMW – that he can write this and not see what a pile of horse manure he’s peddling is bad enough, but that he either does not know, or does not care, what his church says about it is another matter.
For those who thought I was being too harsh yesterday, I hope they can now see why. This is dangerous nonsense. Of course DMW will say he has been ‘successful’ – but then he would, wouldn’t he.
No doubt he will carry on laughing – all the way the the Bank.
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Dave Smith said:
I do as well. David is nice enough fellow and I like him . . . but he does need to know the dangers of what he is tinkering with. He, whether he knows it or not, is selling people on pagan practices that have no place in a Christian’s life. In my opinion, he is trading a ‘cure’ to a mental problem for a new more ‘deadly disease’ which might make a fellow feel better for the moment and permanently destroy their Christian belief.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I make no comment on him at all – save this one. Either he is ignorant of what your Church (and his) thinks about this, or he is not. He cannot claim to be if he reads the links I provided in my first comment.
I am expecting, alas, him to say that it has been given the all clear by some nutjob, and that’s all he needs to keep going. The damage to his immortal soul is on him – he cannot now claim invincible ognorance.
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Dave Smith said:
Sadly, invincible ignorance is what I would like for him and those taken in by these practices as well. But that is between God and these souls. Introducing destructive beliefs and practices to otherwise good Christian men and women is not a thing that should be taken lightly in my judgment.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
My view too. I have done what good conscience prompted me to do to a fellow Christian, warn him he is meddling with gnostic nonsense. If he chooses to laugh it off, then that’s up to him and the Last Judgment. But I would advise him to find a proper confessor, not some dancing monk.
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Dave Smith said:
Agreed! There are far too many out there who will try to confirm him in this dreadful practice and provide excuses that will ease his conscience. I’m afraid that this is how treat all sins these days. This is a case of Modernism as are all the others . . . which are with us these days. There seems no end to all this madness.
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Bosco the Great said:
You guys are idiots. Good brother David is trying to help people. What are you guys doing to help? …Nothing.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
He is using a pagan practice – if you really knew Jesus you would know this – but you are a fraud and know nothing. This proves it. Any real disciple of Jesus would scent the pagan stuff here – you swallow it. That really brings an end to your pretence.
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Dave Smith said:
Indeed, in the realm of Christian Ethics, it ranks up there with Certified Sex Therapists who bed their patients in order to cure their various dysfunctions.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I make no comment – but I cannot see how he can call himself a Catholic in good standing and practice this stuff.
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Bosco the Great said:
I see all the talk about pagan practice. Why does that bother you all of a sudden? All your buddies here are involved in the biggest pagan practice on earth, …..The Mystery Babylon cult of the Dagon Fish Hats and Pine Cone Staff of Bacchues. You don’t come out against that. Pinhead. Good brother David is doing what he can to salvage the lives of men who are out securing crude oil so you can drive your gas guzzling car back and forth.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
It bothers me for the reason it should bother you. With a great deal more experience than you, I long ago came to the conclusion that whatever else is wrong with it, the RCC is not what nitwits like you claim. DMW is practising sorcery, and you approve. Go read what the Bible has to say. You are no more a follower of Christ than anyone who approves of pagan practices, so stop wasting my time pretending you are.
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Jock McSporran said:
David ‘John Wellington Wells’ Monier-Williams:
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Sums him up – all he needs is the hat!
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chalcedon451 said:
It bothers him, Bosco, for the same reason it ought to bother you. He knows what the Bible says on such subjects – do you?
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chalcedon451 said:
I have stayed out of this, but having read Geoffrey’s links and read what ginny said, I feel somehow I ought to apologise for putting this up.
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Dave Smith said:
No need to apologize my friend . . . but I can understand your angst. It bothers me that I cannot stay neutrally focused once New Ageism rears its ugly head. My apologies for my contrubution but DMW does, in my opinion, need to look to the Church for some guidance here.
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chalcedon451 said:
I would say so too.
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ginnyfree said:
It is not your fault. Not by a long shot. Calm down and pray a Rosary or somethin’
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chalcedon451 said:
Thank you ginny – I did 🙂
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Bosco the Great said:
Yeah, rub some Babylonian prayer beads.
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chalcedon451 said:
You seem, Bosco, to be approving of a practice far more pagan than that – but everyone to his own I suppose.
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Bosco the Great said:
I don’t know about this pagan practice you all are yelping about, and I have read the links. And I don’t approve of pagan practices. What im seeing is that you guys think something good brother David is doing is pagan. Yeah, well, so what. You belong to a pagan religion. So, what now? Good brother David is helping people.. OK, so if I looked into what hes doing and see pagan stuff, well, I might change my mind. But for now, im just going on my gut reaction. You are rite…. I don’t read articles longer than 3 sentences.
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chalcedon451 said:
In which case, Bosco, you opinion is worth zero on this.
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Bosco the Great said:
Correction…..I have NOT read any of the links and don’t care to. Why? because I don’t care enough
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chalcedon451 said:
In which case, stop making a fool of yourself by commenting.
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Bosco the Great said:
If good brother David is helping someone, good for him. I did the same thing, only in diagnosis of disease. And like him, all my patients were servicemen. The VA only handles servicemen. When I was at State Chest in san Antonio Regional, we handled the general population. But mainly I did servicemen at the VA. Sad situations.
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chalcedon451 said:
As you have said, you have not followed any of the links and have no idea about what this practice is.
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Bosco the Great said:
For once in your lifetime your rite. I don’t know what this practice is, what ever practice you guys are yabbering about. And if good brother Jeff condems it, I automatically like it. Good brother Jeff was the first one to speak out against good brother David…..that’s when I lost interest in his attacks. Good brother jeff, bless him, doesn’t know which end to blow into.
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chalcedon451 said:
Since Geoffrey is the main non Catholic commentator here, it is interesting you side with a Catholic and not a fellow non-Catholic. You sure you’ve really thought this through?
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Jock McSporran said:
No – it’s very good that he put it up. I now understand the comments he makes much better, knowing the context.
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chalcedon451 said:
Me too Jock. I followed some of Geoffrey’s links. It is worrying, to say the least.
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Bosco the Great said:
Since when did pagan stuff bother you good brother Chalcedon? You make the biggest excuses for your religions use of Babylonian pagan stuff. You even went so far as to say the Dagon fish hats your beloved priests wear are just a happy coincidence that they look exactly alike. I mean, if I was asked to design a hat, what are the chances it would look like a fish with a open mouth? It would be a zillion to one. Then throw in the pine cone staff your substitute Christ holds and you still say its just a coincidence. Gad dang man. And some thing good brother David does is pagan and all of a sudden youre flabberghasted. You guys are priceless.
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chalcedon451 said:
I provided what you never do, Bosco, evidence and an argument.
Geoffrey makes an interesting point. You claim to know Christ and yet have no problem with paganism – but you do with the Catholic Church. Looks to me clear as to what sort of spirit inspires you. Get saved, there’s a good fellow.
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Bosco the Great said:
Not so fast bucko. I don’t know about this pagan claim. I glanced over this conversation and all I see is hot air. None of you are versed in medicine, body or mind. And you all show it. Ive skimmed over good brother Davids post, and I don’t see PAGAN in red lights like you guys see. Its a matter of priorities. Wht is important to you. That men are getting help or that some methods smell like voodoo? heck, why should voodoo bother you guys all of a sudden. Your costumes do it every sunday.
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chalcedon451 said:
If you actually bothered to follow the links, you wouldn’t be wasting our time. Do so.
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Bosco the Great said:
Youre asking me to re read the post and then connect the links to what good brother David is talking about. That could take m more than half an hour.
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chalcedon451 said:
You only need to read the first link. Still, up to you if you want to comment without knowing anything – would hardly be novel here for you.
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ginnyfree said:
You left off 4. When the Insurance company no longer provides coverage. It is usually a sure sign that all is healed!
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Dave Smith said:
Yes, please do add to the list . . . I’m sure there are others as well. 🙂
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ginnyfree said:
Yes, it is witchcraft, but we don’t stone folks to death any more QVO! Getting ashes Wednesday? I really wish I could do so at a TLM for a change. I’ve weary of the dumbedestdownest mess of a Mass……………………………….pray for me. Nice to “see” you. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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newenglandsun said:
Please see this video on YouTube published by CatholicAnswers about witchcraft and please read my comment on it.
Entering into witchcraft and anything related to the occult even if you affirm a sort of metaphorical belief on it will open a hole in you that lets in many thousands of demonic beings.
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Bosco the Great said:
That’s funny. The Babylonian Mystery religion is condemning witchcraft.
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newenglandsun said:
Maybe they aren’t so “Babylonian” after all, eh Bosco?
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Bosco the Great said:
What is a enneagram? ive skimmed over this and still don’t know, and really don’t care. You Bozos are making a big fuss over nothing, and good brother Jeff is leading the circus. Good brother David is helping people who are traumatized by this war over petrolim by our wonderful lying filthy murderous govt. I worked for the Fed Govt in the med lab and had to visit patients up on the floors.Lots of these guys were torn up because of agent orange and other war stuff. One patient, a lady, told me she was a traffic controller in florida air base. She was off the weekend when a flight crew of 6 planes went missing over the Bermuda triangle. She showed up Monday and found out what happened on sunday. They were still picking up transmission late sunday after the planes shoud have run out of gas. Something like 10 hours afer they ran out of gas.
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chalcedon451 said:
Bosco – you have a computer – follow some of the links Geoffrey has provided.
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh come on. I waste a lot of time already with board games and UFO you tube videos. I don’t think I will add Jeffs links to my already long list of wasted time. Why? Because I don’t care enough.
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chalcedon451 said:
In which case, Bosco, you seem to be happy to go along with a pagan belief system. Are you sure it is Jesus Christ and not Jesus someone else you are following?
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Bosco – if you really knew Jesus, you would know in your gut this is wrong. You don’t, so you don’t know Jesus – that’s all the proof I want. You are the only person on this post who agrees with DMW – that should worry the more sensible of the two of you.
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Jock McSporran said:
Geoffrey – I was about to say roughly the same thing. I didn’t read the links either – I didn’t need to. I knew that it was a bunch of dago-talk without reading the links.
I’m only happy that you provided these links, thus saving me the bother of fisking the article myself.
By the way – I always thought that David Monier-Williams and Bosco were revolutionary drugs brothers and that DMW really had a sneaking admiration for Bosco.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Me too, but rather than try to reason with the man, I thought I would provide him with evidence his own church condemns what he does.
It ought to worry the more sensible of the pair that they agree on this. From my own perspective, it is very clear that whatever he claims, Bosco does not know Christ. No one who did could miss the whiff of gnosticism.
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Jock McSporran said:
….. and ….. um ….. which is the more sensible of the pair?
When DMW posted a mass here a couple of years ago, it looked like the Catholic version of Calvary Chapel. They seem equal to me – what DMW tries to achieve with the mass seems exactly like what Bosco is trying to do getting to know Jesus personally.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Agreed.
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Bosco the Great said:
You guys condemn me for approving of this pagan stuff. It just so happens that I don’t know what this pagan stuff is. Emmegram or effegram, something like that. I don’t have the foggiest idea of what that is. And you know what? I don’t care. And why do you Bozos care?
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chalcedon451 said:
Because we follow Christ – which is why you should.
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chalcedon451 said:
Bosco -what value do you think your uninformed comments have?
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Dave Smith said:
Isn’t it time to cut the cord to Bosco, C? He doesn’t read the posts. He doesn’t read the replies. He jabbers on without any relevance to what is being discussed. I just don’t get why we have to be menaced by him day in and day out. I’m getting real tired of this and certainly hope Jess will say OK to pulling the plug. I can’t be the only one that finds this exceedingly annoying.
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chalcedon451 said:
It is, I think. I am reluctant to until DMW comments, as Bosco seems to be his only supporter – so I think we shall have to bear it a while longer.
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Dave Smith said:
Quite frankly, I don’t want him around during a serious discussion of anything. And I think tomorrow qualifies.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, I think he is on moderation for tomorrow.
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Dave Smith said:
Thanks be to God.
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Jock McSporran said:
my goodness – with friends like Bosco, I’d say that DMW hardly needs any enemies!
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Jock McSporran said:
On the contrary – it’s very relevant. This is the only support that DMW has been able to muster. It speaks volumes about DMW’s position – and I (for one) find it highly entertaining.
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Dave Smith said:
I enjoy silliness to an extent and for awhile but this is starting to get far past silly.
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Jock McSporran said:
Actually – I find it very interesting. Yes – he’s simply repeating old ground (and didn’t have much in the way of serious points to begin with) – but it confirms in my own mind the (serious) theory I had that DMW’s church is the Catholic version of Calvary Chapel and that DMW is the Catholic version of Bosco. The only difference being that Bosco posts an awful lot more than DMW ever does. Better to keep silent and to be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
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Dave Smith said:
Indeed, the old Easter Video enlightened us as to his inclinations toward the Modernist, New Age camp. And yeah, his Casa would probably accommodate the Calvary Chapel crowd quite happily . . . but now that we have satisfied our interest . . . now what to do with a Bosco? If DMW is willing we could at least engage him in a conversation . . . which is quite impossible with Bosco.
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Jock McSporran said:
I don’t know – yesterday Geoffrey tried to engage him in discussion and he called him a WOG – precisely what you would expect from a psychotherapist who knows how to heal minds that are in difficulties.
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Dave Smith said:
Jock you might be right. And if that turns out to be the case then consideration would have to be given to applying the same treatment.
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Bosco the Great said:
I do read the replies , good brother Servus. Being the good cathol you are, you would burn me at the stake, but for now you would ban me. What a small man you are.
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chalcedon451 said:
Do read what he is saying. He is wondering what the point of your uninformed comments are.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ok, give me a min. Ill click on one of the links. This better be good or im gonna be pissed.
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Bosco the Great said:
The Enneagram system
The Enneagram is a personality typing system that consists of nine different types. Everyone is considered to be one single type, although one can have traits belonging to other ones. While it’s uncertain whether this type is genetically determined, many believe it is already in place at birth.
The nine types (or “enneatypes”, “ennea” means “nine”) are universally identified by the numbers 1 to 9. These numbers have a standard way of being placed around the Enneagram symbol
Oh god save the Queen. is this what has you guys all up in arms? This is peanuts compared to your cracker god.
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chalcedon451 said:
It derives from an Islamic and occult source – but clearly you are not capable of reading very much. Bosco, do stop making an even bigger ass of yourself.
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Bosco the Great said:
The Enneagram system
The Enneagram is a personality typing system that consists of nine different types. Everyone is considered to be one single type, although one can have traits belonging
to other ones. While it’s uncertain whether this type is genetically determined, many believe it is already in place at birth.
The nine types (or “enneatypes”, “ennea” means “nine”) are universally identified by the numbers 1 to 9. These numbers have a standard way of being placed around the Enneagram symbol
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/994/a_dangerous_practice.aspx
In 2000, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops prepared a draft statement, “A Brief Report on the Origins of the Enneagram,” cautioning against its use. It was never published, but it can be found on the website of the National Catholic Reporter
Religious who promote it
Yet interest in the Enneagram persists in some Christian circles. Retreat centers such as Vallombrosa in Menlo Park, California and the Tabor Retreat Center in Oceanside, New York (run by the Ursulines) conduct Enneagram programs. Living Water Spiritual Center in Winslow, Maine, run by the Sisters of St. Joseph, gave a retreat in November about sobriety that was centered on the Enneagram. From January to April this year, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles had an Enneagram Series, with such workshops as “The Enneagram and Triads of Being.” Father Richard Rohr of the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque, New Mexico teaches the Enneagram.
ibid
That’s it? This is whats botherin you guys? You guys need a hobby or something. Even your own religion dabbles in this thing. Why not, it dabbles in all occult stuf anyway. You guys are jumping on my case for not knowing this. Oh man. Is this the best the Devils can do? Now im really upset. This is what im catching hell for? You guys are weak.
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chalcedon451 said:
You really are not very bright are you? The Church condemns it, it has occult roots and you see nothing wrong. If Geoffrey is right and you are a fraud, it figures. You seem not to be able to sense what every other Christian here can.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
You clearly have no ability to recognise real paganism. That figures, your demon directs you against a Christian church and leaves you vulnerable to the occult. One day, if you are lucky, you will be saved, but at the moment you are on your way to hell. You are a fraud, and this proves it. Any Christian could see this was dodgy. You pretend to attack the RCC< but the one member of it practising pagan magic you support – that figures.
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Bosco the Great said:
but at the moment you are on your way to hell. You are a fraud, and this proves it.
I was on my way to hell and I am a fraud.
The unsaved will and can do anything. We are born unsaved. Its not a crime. Its up to you and the saved to spread the Word.Am I a bad guy because I didn’t know of some idiotic way of the world? Sorry, as hard as I try, I just cant seem to fel bad.
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Bosco the Great said:
Good sister ginny and good brother Chalcedon didn’t know either. Are they bad people because of it? There are lots of things we all don’t know. Even though im the closest one in here to knowing everything, I still don’t know everything.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
You are a fraud because any real follower of Jesus would have smelt the devil here. You still don’t get it do you? Of course you don’t. Know Jesus? Stop blaspheming – you know only the Father of Lies – which is why you won’t read anything, why you prefer to remain ignorant, and why your story of your conversion is as phoney as a nine dollar bill.
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Bosco the Great said:
I believed your conversion story.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Tell me yours then. I am not sure I have ever heard it from you. I am concerned for your soul brother. I have seen good Christian people wrenched away from Christ by this hocus pocus – it is this stuff you need to be protesting, not that Rosary stuff – that does not harm – you’ll see, though, I have some serious questions coming up for our Catholic friends.
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Jock McSporran said:
Geoffrey – Bosco has told us his conversion story several times. A nice young college girl wearing tight jeans told him that Jesus wanted to get to know him personally. He felt a rising thingy in his trisers and the Holy Spirit came upon him.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Oh dear! Let’s see what he says. I am not sure I have ever actually seen him give an account – but then I practice Boscoism when it comes to reading his posts – skim over without reading!
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Bosco the Great said:
The emmegram, the rosary, the real presence, none of them save. The ones depending on them wake up in hell. You think they are harmless? Its not the beads that kill, its being unsaved that kills.Most people are doomed to hell. This bothers me. But all I can do is sound the alarm and tell people that Jesus is rite here rite now. Talk to him.
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Bosco the Great said:
No born again folks are wrenched out of gods hands by some emmegran stuff. It takes more than that to fool the elect. Im not surprised that you give it a second thought. You have nothing else to do with your mind, I suppose.
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Jock McSporran said:
Bosco – it stops people from being born again, because they go off on a totally wrong track and end up worshipping something else.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
You know so little, that your ignorance must be your excuse.
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Bosco the Great said:
I resemble that remark
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chalcedon451 said:
If you find nothing disturbing in the occult, I can only say I am not surprised.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im not disturbed by the occult. Im disturbed if my pastrami sandwich doesn’t have a lot of meat. I don’t let things bother me on the average. But there is plenty that bothers me greatly. People being tortured. Kids being abused and tortured. In Europe, Hungary, the orphanages for babies, they tie the legs up so the nurses can clean them without having to pick them up, just to save time. The stay like that for years. Evil men kidnap people just to torture them. This makes me sick. Its going on somewhere as we speak.
Yes, youre correct. Im not disturbed by some emmegram.
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chalcedon451 said:
Interesting. You claim to follow Jesus and yet real paganism does not disturb you; duly noted.
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Bosco the Great said:
No, it does not bother me. I let Christ do my worrying.
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chalcedon451 said:
How very unscriptural of you.
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Bosco the Great said:
My best friend is atheist and I call him a god hater. he says he doesn’t hate something that isn’t there. So, why should a bunch of nothing bother me.?
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chalcedon451 said:
What does Scripture say about such things?
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I notice that the author has not turned up. When he does he should tell us all why the links in my first post are not right and why he is. He might also ponder the fact that he and Bosco are the only people here on his side of the ‘argument’.
How does it feel, Medicine Man, to know that your only supporter here is Bosco?
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Bosco the Great said:
Even though I know what emmegram is, I still don’t think good brother David deserves your condemnation like you have heaped upon him.Ok, so this emmegram stuff is useless. Its not as harmfull as most of the cancer drugs. These cancer drugs cause cancer, and make you feel sick while they poison you. Emmegram is just a bunch of talk. Guns kill, wars kill.
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Eccles (@BruvverEccles) said:
People, of course, are totally innocent, aren’t they, big brother?
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Bosco the Great said:
Im innocent
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Bosco the Great said:
The Enneagram, in reality, has its roots in the occult and was first introduced by George Gurdjieff an occultist and founder of Esoteric Christianity. (Although many including Stabile consider it to be ancient there is no prove that it is.) The Ennagram filtered into the Catholic Church through the teaching of Chilean Oscar Ichazo, another occultist who developed, alongside others, a numbering system which supposedly applies to personalities. Father Robert Ochs trained with Ichazo as did others in the Catholic faith.[2]
http://naminghisgrace.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/authority-of-scripture-enneagram-and.html
The CC uses emminemism and likes it. So, therefor cathols have to love it too.
What was that? You cathols don’t approve of paganism?
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chalcedon451 said:
You really can’t read can you? It says the church condemns it but some catholics use it. Which part of that should have been hard for your brain to grasp? Do you approve of occult practices?
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Bosco the Great said:
The Jesuits seem to like it. Sounds like its more entrenched in your religion than you want to believe.
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Gareth Thomas said:
The Myers Briggs test was widely used by religious orders in the 1980s and when they got bored with it they started introducing the Enneagram. The Jesuits were foremost practitioners of both these systems in assessing personality in religious communities, so many others communities thought it was OK to go along with it, not realizing the devil had taken over Jesuit central command!
As an Anglican Franciscan I was introduced to all this stuff but became very quickly one of those who joined in the satirical counter-movement against it, as we talked around the refectory table. I have no doubt that it comes from the devil, but the best way to counter it is by ridicule and satire, which can be successfully done without raising your blood pressure!
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Jock McSporran said:
OK – in light of Gareth’s post, I now have strong sympathy with David Monier-Williams.
What he is doing is thoroughly evil. It is sorcery, it is Satanic, it is from the devil.
But – what he is doing has already been given the green light by brainy fancy Jesuit theologians and was, according to Gareth, well established within the Jesuit community when DMW started on it approximately 30 years ago.
If you’re a Catholic, then you should be able to trust these people.
We all know the great theory of ‘authority’ and how the authority structure of the RCC is supposed to keep people broadly on the straight and narrow and prevent anything too wacky happening.
How can that be reconciled with the current situation?
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I think that is a bit black and white. It took me five minutes to find a whole set of Catholic links exposing this baloney. Any Catholic could do the same. The Jesuits are notoriously nutty – we know the ‘dream decipherer’ who wrote this attends a nutty church, so you’d expect it. He’s not some innocent abroad. Those who want this rot can always find it – but no orthodox Christian should touch it.
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Jock McSporran said:
So … if they are so notoriously ‘nutty’ (a nice euphemism for teaching dangerous things that send people straight to hell), why aren’t they ex-communicated?
It’s as if Rome is saying, ‘well, we don’t like it very much, but it’s only a teeny-weeny little irregularity; we can live with it’.
It seems to me that they’re much more interested in keeping people on board than on proclaiming the truth.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Are you surprised i am not.
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Jock McSporran said:
No – of course not – it’s par for the course, but it does knock on the head any theory that they have that the RCC is so much better because it has an authority structure that limits such nonsense.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
That hasn’t been true since Vatican 2
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I am assuming this is our DMW
David B. Monier-Williams M.S., MP NLP, MP EH. is a Psychotherapist, Hypnotherapist, Spiritual Counselor, Dream Decipher Therapist, Bio-Energetist
Says iit all. Only in the land of the Medicine Show! Anyone seeking Christian healing would be well advised to consult a Christian.
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Jock McSporran said:
…… I’ll bet he’s richer than you.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I’d think so. Retired school masters who tithe are never going to be rich. Mind you, you can tell what God thinks of riches by looking at those to whom he gives it 😄
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newenglandsun said:
Geoffrey, it’s worse than you think.
The nutter is my next-door neighbour!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-b-monier-williams-902b4358
Well, not literally but I also am in the Phoenix Metropolitan area in Arizona.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Poor you. I see the old fool has responded saying wasn’t him, never did it, and everyone else is wrong. Whenever you find yourself blaming everyone else you can be sure of only one thing – you are in the wrong.
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David B. Monier-Williams said:
Response
I have given a lot of thought as to how to answer the mind-reading Inquisitor General. I’ve read his links and they don’t apply to what and how I use the Enneagram. Fr. Pacwa agreed with me on this matter during our conversations several years ago when this same subject came up. If you like how and what I do in therapy to help the afflicted—fine, if not, then you can always do the other thing. More than this I’ll not comment about what I do, the results I get and my fiances, which are between me and God.
The Inquisitor General has shown his true colours. He attacks me for my Faith and has also made personal attacks. His Belfast bias, bigotry and ignorance has raised its ugly head again and spread to all forms of therapy, none of which he deems necessary for healing in psychological.
Dave joined in because he dislikes therapy too, added to which he’s a Catholic Traditionalist and views all else as borderline heresy.
With the Inquisitor General screaming at the top of his lungs the rest of the sheeple fell into lock step including C.
Then the Inquisitor General, having used his athletic mind to jump to erroneous conclusions in the first place, had the unmitigated gall and effrontery to don the vestment of chastisement and use it on me the so-called devil worshiper. Inquisitor General if you’re a Christian then Bosc’s a Saint.
I would to make special mention of another so-called Christian, who was a one time Anglican Friar. He, because he was a Friar and studied the Enneagram and thinking he knows everything about it, heaps venom on me by advising the sheeple to ply me with ridicule and satire. And he calls himself a Christian.
And you expect me to justify my position to you biased, ignorant bigots? You’ve got to be kidding!!!
On the other hand, I have to congratulate both NEO and Jessica the only true Christians left on the blog from not commenting, out of good manners, regardless their opinion in this situation.
It’s a sad day, when one bigoted ignoramus from the hinterland can railroad the rest of you.
I’m ashamed to have been connected with this blog, which Jessica in her good heart started a short time ago. I know that if it were her, I would be deeply embarrassed by all the so-called Christians on it.
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newenglandsun said:
Mother has nothing against therapy and counseling herself and she has been quite tired as of recent. However, I am almost certain she would shudder at your pagan, anti-Christian nonsense.
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Jock McSporran said:
…. I hope she’s OK.
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newenglandsun said:
Of course she’s okay–she’s the bride of Christ! Along with me and with you and with everyone else on this blog because we are being fashioned into one bride together. That’s what we’ve been talking about.
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Jock McSporran said:
David – go do some yoga.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Surely he must have some dreams to direct and some spiritual healing to offer – and to think, all he offers us is bluff and bluster – whoda thunk it? He offers no response to any of those links except to say he doesn’t use the phoney-baloney that way – sure – we believe the old fraud. Let’s hope this sees the last of him here.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I note you cannot justify your charlatanry. I also provided links showing that NLP is regarded as next door to charlatanry in circles outside its own solipsism.
All you have to offer if ad hominem stuff, your usual refuge when what you do is contested and shown up to be phoney-baloney.
Now, you old fraud, shove off and rob some old woman of her savings – and if you don’t come back, don’t let the door knob hit you anywhere sensitive – assuming you have anywhere that is.
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ginnyfree said:
Geoffrey, are you the “Inquisitor General?” Oh that is too much. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Not! Oh dear. Oh my. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Yes, but I am not a ‘spiritual director’ or a ‘dream decipherer ‘ – nice to know there is something to aspire to one day! 🙂
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Dave Smith said:
How dare you railroad me and all the rest, Geoffrey . . . and all the while I had no idea I was even being railroaded. 🤔
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Jock McSporran said:
I was disappointed that I didn’t get a special mention for being an especially bigoted and evil ‘porridge WOG’. Where did I go wrong?
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Dave Smith said:
I don’t understand that either but I know that I feel violated.
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ginnyfree said:
What is a WOG?
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chalcedon451 said:
It was what DMW accused Geoffrey of treating him like. It is a very old pejorative expression for a black person.
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Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Yup, I’m the great railroad chief – railroading the Dr DMW snake oil show out of town 🙂
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ginnyfree said:
I take it you’ve not taken the criticisms here very well then, huh? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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NEO said:
Manners about covers it, for us both, along with the fact that we weren’t needed. As NES says, we were both rather horrified by this exposition of paganistic beliefs, and by one who professes to be a Christian at that. Sorry David, it simply means there was no reason for us to pile on. A blocked punt at 4th and 50, with the entire defense on the ball just doesn’t require our help. Charlatan is about the nicest term that can be applied.
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Jock McSporran said:
So you and Jessica didn’t like it either? I suppose that makes you both WOGS!!
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Dave Smith said:
“. . . they don’t apply to what and how I use the Enneagram.”
If you understood that the Enneagram is the ‘occult’ then what and how you use the occult is inconsequential to the argument. There is no good way to use the occult if you are Christian.
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