Usually, I try to select an article that goes along with what we’ve been discussing, and I’ve done that here. I also usually provide a short introduction, that I haven’t done here because the first comment on the article, from Kathleen of “Catholicism Pure & Simple” says it much better than I can, along with insight into how Jess wanted this place to be, and that we have tried to continue. Here’s Kathleen:
Jess, you are doing something very special and extremely important here; you are drawing together Christians from all denominations in inspiring and profound discussions on Faith topics. We can obviously not agree on all aspects of our beliefs, but we can exchange our views, traditions and teachings in lively conversation in an atmosphere of harmony and respect, and without any anger or self-righteousness. Really, this is absolutely amazing!
Through your gentle, respectful and sensitive personality (plus with your obvious high intelligence and vivid imagination) you are achieving something that no one else has managed to…… as far as I know anyway. Every other blog site that attempts such discussions always seems to end up in cyber-type battles and fights leaving no winners…… and a very sour tasting feeling of utter futility!
United?
So often, for me, one of the most wonderful parts of running a blog are the comments from you – they are never less than thought-provoking, and sometimes they are so profound as to make me glad to have such people with whom to converse through this strange medium.
Yesterday’s post on the ‘Beauty of holiness’ touch a chord with many, and set of some fascinating comments. I was much struck with the conclusion to Kathleen’s comments:
I readily agree with you that in this, our secular age in the West, we live “impoverished times as Christians”…… and it is vital we should befriend our fellow Christians to stand shoulder to shoulder in the face of so many challenges of our day, rather than bicker, insult (and worse), which is what we have been doing since the times of the Reformation until fairly recently.
All denominations of true Christians hold and believe the most important thing of all: that Jesus Christ is the Saviour, the Only begotten Son of God, Who came to redeem mankind. Nothing is more important than this.
If I were able to sum up my credo it would be in these words.
As anyone familiar with the site on which Kathleen makes such distinguished posts, Catholicism Pure & Simple, will know, she is a devout and knowledgeable Cradle Catholic, so her comments come with even more weight, as they are not the product of some casual ecumenist gust of emotion. They were matched by words from my dear friend NEO, who commented:
Lutherans, Catholics, and Anglicans, we have all, to a great extent anyway, thrown away the reverential awe of worship. We did this with the best of intentions, to attract new congregants but, as with so many things, we didn’t think it through. When we lower ourselves to attract people, we lower the standards of Christianity. Of what use are multitudes of half-Christianized pagans to God or church?
He added:
We stress our coffee hours, our good works (which are important and are an effect of our faith) our modernity in general. And what do we get, a coffee shop filled with do-gooders. There’s nothing wrong with any of that but, it’s not who we are, we are the Church of Jesus Christ, the Risen Lord, nothing more and nothing less. Many of our Evangelical friends understand this, why can’t we?
And that, between them, sums up the place where some of us feel that real ecumenism already exists.
We are, not one of us, responsible for what divides us; we are all responsible for perpetuating it if we ‘bicker and insult’ others.
In the end it comes back, as it always must, to what Jesus told His disciples, which is why I have part of it on the masthead of this blog:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
If we do that, then we follow Him. If we don’t, it does not matter what we say. If we do not love one another we walk in darkness.
From 14 August 2012, and as always the comments are worth reading as well.
All Along the Watchtower 
That statement above, from Kathleen, needs to be read again: “All denominations of true Christians hold and believe the most important thing of all: that Jesus Christ is the Saviour, the Only begotten Son of God, Who came to redeem mankind. Nothing is more important than this.”
As one of those who first struggled to set up Catholicism Pure (and its banner today is the restored version of my original design), I have mentioned from time to time what a battle we had to wrest the site from the more extremist Catholic elements who wanted to control it.
Since my experiences earlier this year with a rather sectarian group of traddy Catholics in “The Other Place” – well documented on this blog – I have spent much time reflecting on my own position. It remains much the same: the only difference is that I am no longer connected with anyone of like mind!
What I have considered, more than anything else, is the way that my experience of Taizé (the ecumenical gathering place in France) probably helped more towards my heading in a traditional direction than any other influence! It was the conversations with Brother Roger himself – when I was still an Anglican Franciscan friar staying regularly in Taizé – that eventually took me in the Catholic direction. Quite significant in that was the realisation of the importance of Mary the Mother olf God. I learned this in conversations with Brother Roger, a Swiss protestant and Prior of Taizé, who some say had converted to Catholicism secretly before he died, but we will never know.
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To be honest, that comment from Kathleen had much to do with my selection, although Jess’ article stands on its own quite well.
Your point on Mary is taken, and yet I note that I (and Jess) both venerate Mary. Both Lutheran and Anglo-Catholic traditions allow (and sometimes encourage) it. And Geoffrey even is sympathetic to it. It’s foremost in the Catholic church but certainly not unknown in others as well.
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A very interesting point, Gareth (i I might). As one who was, as a young man, involved in another group of folk who were sure their own hard-line traditionalism was correct, I came to see the defects and problems with that, and was greatly helped by a Catholic fellow teacher, who gave me a Rosary, which I use from time to time when I pray in memory of him – so we are not, I think, and as Neo suggests – too far apart. If we could but see clearly, perhaps we’re not at all apart – history has landed us where it has, but He can redeem all.
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Good reading here, Neo, and as one who was not here in the early days, good to be able to have these so readily to hand; it’s encourage me to go back and read more.
Just the thing for an afternoon when gale force winds and heavy rains have deterred even more from my usual walk up the dales!
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Thanks Geoffrey. these are fun to do, especially when it dawns on one that she addressed the same issues we are now.
I hear that, not least since I live in the part of the US that has about four barbed wire fences between Canada and Mexico for shelter belts. strangely (for December) it’s pretty decent here, overcast and fairly calm but above freezing.
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Certainly worth doing. It’s raining cats and dogs here. I donned my overcoat, hat and picked up my stick – got out of my door, was blown down the street and soaked, so decided a glass of scotch was in order. It’s warmer in here, and there is still some scotch left 🙂
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yuck, I’d actually rather have snow, it doesn’t chill one ass much. Shoot, I’m out, so will have to settle for vodka! 🙂
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In this weather I need something more warming. About 100 miles north they have major flooding – hoping we will escape it – times like this I am glad we are near the head of the valley and not down below – however much I hate it when my daily walk means coming back up hill 🙂
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Yep, much better to have gravity’s help on the way home. But then here it’s so flat that you don’t notice the river valley when you enter it, although you do notice the one from the last ice age, which is about 20 miles wide. 🙂
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It’s helped keep me pretty fit I suppose – but it helps having a pub at the bottom of the valley 🙂
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Aye, that would help me, sadly I don’t care for the bars here, and that’s one of my problems with this town. 🙂
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Just to annoy both of you, here in the Costa Blanca (a geographical area invented by British European Airways in 1959) we continue to enjoy summer temperatures in December.
I was sitting outside having a beer in Finestrat half an hour ago. Now it has got a bit chilly at 9 pm. so it is too cool to sit outside now I am back at home. The donkeys have chosen to sleep outside again tonight, and not in the stable. I love this climate! Who would want to be in England? Global warming? Bring it on!
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