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One reflection on the fuss over the showing of the advertisement for the Lord’s Prayer in cinemas, would be that it shows up the ambivalence our society has with Christianity and, probably with the idea of religious faith of any variety; I think it does not know what to make of it. My comments apply to the UK, and I’d be interested in what our American readers and commentators have to say about their own situation, but here the only exposure most children get to religion is via school, where, even in Church of England or Catholic schools, teachers bend over backward to be inclusive – which is a euphemism for not teaching much about Christianity. They will get lots of comparative religion, but how much use this is to children who don’t understand what religion is might be a good question to ask. When I was teaching, it was always difficult for Heads to find trained RE teachers and we usually made do with teachers whose expertise was elsewhere; as someone with a doctorate in a religious topic who was also an elder in his local church, I ended up as our ‘lead’ in this area; not ideal, but better than the alternative – which was the PE teacher (who happened to have some spare space in his timetable!). If that was the case in a public school (for our US readers, that means ‘private’ – yes, I know, but the English are odd like that!), then it is even worse in many State schools.
In one sense one might say this has not changed much – there was always a problem filling RE, but back when I started it was easier to do because there were always a number of teachers who, like men played a role in their local churches and could be plugged in to cover the subject when needed. Now that is rarely the case. That reflects the wider aspect of the problem – the gap between wider educated society and religion. So, if our children are not getting much by way of religious education at school, and if the wider society of which they are part is religiously illiterate, it can be said with some confidence that they will not get that sort of education anywhere else.
At my own chapel, we put on a weekly Bible study class, but that is mainly taken by those already members of the fellowship. We started a weekly introductory class back in September, and that has a small membership, but they are all adults, and all came via our street preaching; none of them know much about religion, and we had to start from the most basic of basics. All those in the class had education up to the age of 18, and two of them have degrees, but not one of the eight knew anything much about Christianity except what they’d picked up from the media – and most of that was negative.
After 12 weeks we have made some progress, but when we decided to set up the course, we asked around other churches to see what they did, and found the answer was very little. I’d hoped the C of E, who do something which looks useful, might prove a little more ecumenical than they have, but you can’t always have what you want – or what would make economic sense (they have seven in their class!). But at least we are doing something. Very few others are.
So, I can see where the C of E was coming from with its advertisement – the state of play is dire, and I am not sure how well-equipped we are to deal with a favourable response – but it would be a nice problem to have.
In a Moslem family of my acquaintance, small children pray with their parents several times a day. Toddlers who are not yet talking, cover their heads and copy the actions of their siblings and parents. Prayer is an integral part of their lives.
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In the present day Geoffrey, in the US, the biggest disrepancies that we might see to how Christianity is taught or treated by non-Christians is between urban (read: university) communities and rural (read: illiterate by the elites) communities.
When growing up and moving around this country from coast to coast things were quite different. However, culturally, we were very ‘refined’ in most mixed faith settings: we rarely spoke of religion or politics. The one exception was the common enemy of Communism. But we did have group prayer and the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance which has all but disappeared now.
In private settings such as church schools, it was Catholic and other religious schools who had a sub-culture of their brand of Christianity and those beliefs were instilled in the children both in the classroom and at home. Today, the Catholics have lost their primary teachers of the faith (the nuns of old) and the new ecumenism which is more rightly called pluralism, indifferntism or secularism rules the day . . . and fhis goes for most protestants as well.
A recent survey has seen for the first time in our history among white Americans, chrisianity is a minority in the US. The one notable group that has not changed its Chrisitan beliefs is among the Republicans where over 70% identify themselves as Christians.
As to those who identify as Christians, I wonder how many of them (if put on trial for being Christian) would have enough evidence to convict them in a court of law?
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Sad points Dave, sad because so real.On your last point, they’d probably get off because there was no evidence at all.
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I fear so, Geoffrey.
There is also a noticeable difference between people who work with their hands and those who work with their heads. Those of the former seem more likely to be Christians. However, if the blue collar workers send their children off to school so that they will not have to do hard work and earn mediocre pay, they are sending them off to be de-Christianized as well. There are so many factors . . . its hard to put a finger on all of them.
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Hey Dave et al,
It’s phadde2- I’ve started a new blog based on being a Pilgrim for Christ. I think a bit of its foundation are to be found within the expressed topic of this post. As instead of resigning our faith to our homes, which secular humanism would prefer, we must open our earthly vessels so that The Word will pour forth (Topic of one my upcoming advent posts)
It’s interesting and perhaps I should talk about this in a post. When I decided I was unhappy at my job and wanted to try something different I went back to a secular school. In a class, I sat by a gentleman who was Orthodox Christian. I would say it was a bit of a conversion for myself, not that I didn’t believe in God because I always have, but like Saul through our general discussion about philosophy my eyes were opened to a different world.
My original blog, which use to have a lot of posts about politics, I thought that expressing my written ideas that I could persuade someone to take a different path. However, there was a vital error in my thinking. In discussion with the gentleman, it was discussed, which there is a lot of truth on the matter that can be seen by observation, that America society almost entirely operates under Classical Liberalism. Conservatism that only operates under Classical Liberalism without faith is merely the shadow of Liberalism. The question that must be asked is whether a philosophy that promotes the individual is overall compatible with Christianity, the Body of Christ–The Church (all of Christianity).
I’ve enjoyed blogging but upon this discovery, what I use to blog about turned to ash. I believe that I have discovered that writing about, spreading, and defending the Christian life is the best way to protect the world and the Body of Christ, which as it seems was always my intentions in the first place.
I wanted a clean break, so I chose a different sign on name (in case any were wondering), a name with meaning. Phillip is my real name and St. Philip the Apostle is my confirmation name. I chose the spelling of Philip the Apostle as always a reminder of that confirmation. If I were to be confirmed again today, I think I would choose St. Augustine out of my enjoyment of his works, so I hope he will be the patron of mine.
**Interesting observation on blue collar folks, Christians must fight to keep the family strong and we must do our best to teach other Christians and others to do the same. We must realize why modern Liberalism seeks to redefine the family, away from the Christian institute of family, because it’s a vital foundation of Christianity. In the United States, Dave’s right, there’s no place for the Christian Family in secular schools or college campuses. Students are flooded with the opposite under the name of diversity. If those students object, they will be labeled as a bigot–their word for heretic– and shunned. Many Christians, it appears, need to learn or relearn that it’s okay to be the world’s heretics.
This is part of Christ’s message
Jn 15:18-19 RSV
18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Of course, with this being said, Christ doesn’t call us to mistreat people. However, it’s vitally important to understand that Christ also doesn’t call us to bring down the walls of our faith because the world demands it.
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If our schools and universities had more Christians there, it would be different.
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At my own chapel, we put on a weekly Bible study class
My grandma used to say…….if you cant say anything nice, don’t say anything a all.
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Good – that last one seems to be something you’ve not taken to heart 🙂
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My grandma was deeply god fearing, and a elementary school principal. I went to her school for one year, first grade, and when I did wrong and was sent to the principal, I was scared out of my mind. She made me do times tables. But, anyway, I don’t suffer from the same tolerance she had. False religions send people to hell. And you sit there smiling and waving them on their way.
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You granma was clearly an intelligent woman. A shame you didn’t inherit more of her brain power.
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The Church of England has lost any legitimacy it had (and let’s be honest, its origins are dubious at best). It has no will to live, bowed shamelessly to parliamentary demands for women bishops which is an absurdity, and self-brands as a left wing institution.
I’m not even Catholic and I’d recommend any actual committed priests in that Church make the jump as so many others have. I wouldn’t want to be found a false teacher if the Day of Judgment was tomorrow.
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It’s a great shame. When I was a young man I had some dealings with it, and found it’s ministers good-hearted but weak-headed. It seemed then, and has since, that they followed whatever secular fashion was going in the hope that someone would love them for it. That may be a bit harsh, but it is how it was, and is.
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