I’ve generally abstained from commenting on what is going on in the Catholics Church, mainly out of sympathy for my Catholic collaborators on this site, but also because it is hard to find anything to say which is charitable. Damian Thompson, writing in this week’s Spectator has an excellent piece which prompts me to say a few things.
In the first place Dr Thompson is on the money when he describes the problem thus:
No pontiff in living memory has awakened the specific fear now spreading around the church: that the magisterium, the teaching authority vested in Peter by Jesus, is not safe in his hands.
It is necessary to remember that the Pope is not the Church, and right to emphasise that he pronounces infallibly only under certain conditions. But common sense tells us that a Pope with this sort of media profile can do an awful lot of damage, not least because most folk don’t understand these limits. So, you get old Elton John saying that Pope Francis is his ‘hero’ because he is
“ally” against conservative bishops in Africa in his views on same-sex relationships.
“My sly bet is yes he is. He’s just had the [synod] in Rome and I think he’s fighting an uphill battle against the African cardinals and bishops.”
If John considers ‘Francis is on our side’ then he is wrong, because there is no sign that even Rambling Pope Frank wants to go that far – but what matters is that men like Elton John think otherwise. This, naturally, makes many faithful Catholics fearful; what if Francis is on that side of the argument?
Most likely, it seems to me, Rambling Pope Frank likes shooting from the mouth and then seeing what happens. That’s one of the few rational explanations for his habit of talking to the Communist atheists nonagenarian Scalfari, who has just told us all that the Pope favours access to Communion for divorced Catholics. The most over-worked communications officer in the world, Fr Lombardi, has weighed in to say that the report is ‘not reliable’. The only clear thing here is that the Pope is as reliable as a wonky Fiat (motto, ‘Fix it again Toni’).
If Dr Thompson is right, then, as he puts it, we have:
the successor of Peter is acting like a politician, picking fights with opponents, tantalising the public with soundbites and ringing up journalists with startling quotes that his press officer can safely retract. He is even hinting that he disagrees with the teachings of his own church.
It’s no wonder that many Catholics are disturbed and suspicious; there is much about this fellow that inspires both. The fellow talks a lot about being a shepherd, but I’m not clear he’s any idea what the job involves? It certainly does not consist of disturbing the sheep and mentioning ‘roast lamb’ a lot.
For those of us outside the Catholic Church, there’s nothing new in what Catholics are seeing here. The Anglicans have seen their Church effectively hollowed out, with the actual doctrinal content of the faith so watered down it can mean almost whatever anyone wants it to mean; most others have. The demands of the world are incessant. It does not want to hear about ‘sin’, and it sees no use in ‘repentance’. it wants, nay it demands, a Jesus who never said anything about not everyone being saved, and it wants a Jesus who said to sinner ‘hey, who are we to judge, just make sure you have a good time and don’t harm anyone – lurve is all – whatever lurve means.’ Since it can’t find him in Scripture, it insists on a post-modern reading thereof into which they can inject the Jesus of their imagining. Anyone contradicting this will not be popular. Look what they did to Jesus, after all?
The problem in any Church is one of authority. If we believe that we have the Spirit in us, and He guides us to understand Scripture, we have, as Chalcedon wrote here yesterday, to make sure we ground that reading in what the Christian faith has always professed. A Pope who finds that difficult may well be in the wrong job.
David B. Monier-Williams said:
Geoffrey, I think you have a point with many of what I call CINOS and scandalized converts. As a “Cradle Catholic,” I guess I put my head down, receive Holy Communion daily, say my Rosary do my meditation etc. etc. and leave Rome to the Romans. I have faith that it’ll all come out in the wash.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Sounds a plan David – probably the best one.
LikeLike
Bosco the great said:
Its coming out in the wash alright. The new runaway best seller ” Merchants in the Temple” used leaked documents to expose corruption and greed in the Holy See. Of course, His Holiness said that its was wrong to air those documents. Yeah, they shouldn’t have outta done that.
LikeLike
Dave Smith said:
“Here’s Johnny!” . . . or Francis! We have a Pope that speaks of a ‘God of surprises’ which makes this Pontiff quite fitting as the Pope of surprises.
Funny how he speaks of love and mercy constantly whilst hurling invectives against anyone that disagrees with him. He is still preaching his discontent to those who opposed his Kasperite position at the synod: http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/11/05/pope_francis_the_christian_includes;_pharisees_exclude/1184551
We know who he speaking about when he uses the word Pharisee, don’t we?
As for Elton . . . I am more worried about this Popes approval of folks such as Archbishops, Danneels, Cupich and others.
Indeed one wonders what the mess will look like after this Pope finishes playing with the Papacy . . . for his hatred of authority and desire to spread it among his bishops, he sure throws a tantrum if others don’t go along with him. He does seems to enjoy scolding his perceived enemies: those who don’t go along with his every whim.
As Fr. Z says, he is just a parentheses in the Church, and his will end too . . . the only question is how big a mess he will make of things for the next Pope.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
He seems an authoritarian who has realised that in modern conditions, pretending you’re not whilst playing to liberal gallery will get him what just ordering people to do wouldn’t.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
I guess it only makes sense to Jesuits and Modernist Progressives (like Obama).
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Do you think that they do ‘making sense’? I thought they liked being ‘surprised’? Problem will be the huge lack of surprise to the rest of us when their way ends in disaster for us.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Dave Smith said:
Perhaps we began to ‘spare the rod’ when we should have used it? These types have always been around and are like cock roaches that lurk just out of sight in the shadows usually. I guess they think the light will not catch them in the open . . . but I think they are exposed now. This might be a blessing in disguise. I’m hoping for the next Pope to be a Pope of Excommunications.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I wish you joy with that – I don’t know why folk seem shocked that a Jesuit from South America is his 70s is a trendy at heart – why wouldn’t the man be one?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
When one thinks of his Peronist roots you are right. But it always comes as a shock when you find things this confused.
I’m still trying to get my head around his first Holy Thursday kissing of the feet (one a muslim). I know he likes to call himself the ‘servant of the servant’ and indeed that is what he is supposed to be but I didn’t ever take it to mean that he is the servant of the servant of Allah or Baal or some other false god. It was taken as charity but this public bowing of Christianity to false religions seems a bit much.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Stop being so rational? You suppose he actually thinks about this stuff as opposed to just doing it? God may not be the God of suprises, but this bozo surely is!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Perhaps it is Francis that is surprising God?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Let’s hope not – there’s no doubt some divine purpose working itself out here – but way beyond me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
To end with a bit of Faith, Hope and Charity we might keep our first Popes words handy:
I Peter 4
“12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal which comes upon you to prove you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of glory[c] and of God rests upon you. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or a thief, or a wrongdoer, or a mischief-maker; 16 yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God. 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And
“If the righteous man is scarcely saved,
where will the impious and sinner appear?”
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Good old St Pete – what a guy! I’ve a feeling he’d have been a good man to talk to.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Me too . . . now he was a commoner and not an elite pretending to be one.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Where was his PhD from again?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
‘fraid he didn’t have none. Francis might learn something from him about being ‘plain speaking’ though. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Well, those Catholic theologians won’t be listening to old Pete then! Do you suppose we’ve stumbed on their secret here – none of the Evangelists had a PhD in theology, so why give them any attentions at all?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Well, they did have an unfair advantage though . . . learning at the feet of God Himself. They boast a professor that no others can.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I guess not even those Jesuits will question that – though I’m putting no money on it. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Perhaps they could have a synod to decide if that is right or not.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Do they still believe in ‘right’?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Of course! If they say it, it is right.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
True that! Odd how relativism stops at that point.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
Indeed so. A mystery to be solved.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I suppose when you know you are right, you expect everyone else to recognise it?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
If they’re smart enough they will. But you can’t expect too much from the stupid, undeducated peons whom we, sadly, must live amongst.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Very true – we’llhave to stay content with old St Pete – if it was good enough for St Paul then it’s good enough for me!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
True enough. I never did have much respect for a man without, a least, some callouses. Though, callouses on the butt are not much of recommendation either. Best they be on the hands.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
I guess one could say that he did attend the School of Hard Knocks though.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Ah, the old University of life 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
My alma mater. 🙂
LikeLike
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Yes, you don’t so much graduate as survive!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Smith said:
True, brother, true.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Amen! You tell it brother!
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
Well, that’s ‘unexpectedly’ acute!
LikeLiked by 1 person
ginnyfree said:
Hello Geoffrey.
This is the very reason why I say so little to you about the things you write here: ” but also because it is hard to find anything to say which is charitable.”
If you have such a strong dislike and lack of respect for my Church, which BTW, happens to be THE Church founded by Christ, the Man you think you follow, why bother chatting it up with Catholics here? Is it out of some sort of condescending charity towards us that you lower yourself to speak to us here? Or do you hope to rescue a few souls from the clutches of the Church you cannot say anything charitable about?
God bless. Ginnyfree.
LikeLike
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
I said nowt uncharistable about your Church. When you grow up as a Catholic, you will learn that the Pope is not your Church, and that to rightfully criticise an idiot is a work of corporeal mercy. Until then, you’re welcome to throw around uncharitable accusations, and I’m free to alugh at your hypocrisy. Simple question – do you think this Pope is orthodox on the issue of remarriage and access to communion. A simple yes or no will do.
LikeLiked by 2 people
phadde2 said:
Geoffrey, as a Catholic, I thought your essay was an informative insight. MY interpretation when I read it was that the writer had concern out of perhaps their own experience within their faith.
You say, correct me if I am wrong, “I’ve generally abstained from commenting on what is going on in the Catholics Church, mainly out of sympathy for my Catholic collaborators on this site, but also because it is hard to find anything to say which is charitable.”
I take as that you have great respect for your Catholic acquaintances; however, with the particular situation in the Church, you’re starting to see the writing on the wall with which you cautiously write about your own observations.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Thank you, not least for understanding where I’m coming from. I think every church is afflicted by this – it has just taken longer for the Catholic Church to have this at the top. I think all orthodox Christians face a challenge from the heterodox, and think we’d best hang together for fear of hanging separately.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Grandpa Zeke said:
Bless you Geoffrey, I have found your posts re: Catholicism nothing short of respectful and charitable.
By the by, some of my American ancestors were Quakers and distrust of “popery” ran rampant in the late 1700’s in Maryland. That didn’t stop at least one of my distant relations from stepping forward and defending Catholics who were sorely persecuted at that time. I have deep respect for this level of intelligence and good sense, and yes, it is usually born of a lifetime of experience, as phadde2 suggested.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Thanks Grandpa – yes, in my hot youth, God forgive me, I was one such – but thanks to the Grace of God, I stopped.
LikeLike
Grandpa Zeke said:
Well, we all have to be young sometime, fortunately we outgrow it. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
The one thing time is a cure for 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
No, you didn’t. I would also remind Ginny that this is NOT a Catholic blog. Almost all of us are sympathetic to and respectful, of Rome. But this blog started as an Anglican (albeit Anglo-Catholic) site, and it still retains that. What this blog mostly is, is an orthodox Christian Blog.
But Geoffrey is right in his comment that what Rome does affects us all.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Thanks Neo – few things get my goat, but one of them is Catholic converts.reverts who don’t read what is written but see an attack on the Pope as the same as an attack on their Church. After all this time here, I’d hoped no one would go there – as ever, optimism is the prelude to disappointment!
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
I’m much the same, and it’s also why I haven’t had much to say about the synod and respective stuff. When they do that it chills the discussion. I’ve never heard any of us say anything disrespectful about Rome, you, me, or for that matter Jess. Yep, I was disappointed as well. And for that matter, it was a pretty calm, mild mannered attack, especially compared to what a fair number of Catholics are saying.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
True – but it is always easier to play the Prot than your fellow catholic, I guess; this one plays back!
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
True enough, my friend. This one tends to, as well.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
Yes, as the French put it, this animal is bad, when you attacj it, it defends itself!
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
Yep, well I played defense in football (our kind). I’m good at breaking things! 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Geoffrey RS Sales said:
My game was cricket, where I was the opening batsman, and my job was to stay there until the ball was well battered and the shine was off it – I once managed to bat for two hours scoring only five runs – drove the opposition mad – but my side won. The race is not always to the swift!
LikeLiked by 1 person
NEO said:
Nope, it usually goes to those who are prepared and want it, although some skill helps!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pingback: Denominations | All Along the Watchtower