Tags
The doctrine of election (whether or not you use the Calvinist hermeneutic) tends to provoke polar responses: you either love it or you hate it. This, to me at least, is an indication of its relevance and role in the Christian life. Something that provokes this much strong feeling – be it relief or hatred – is worth investigating. Careful inquiry will reveal that it is a golden thread running through both the Old and New Testaments.
Going right back to Genesis we can see God choosing people for His purposes throughout salvation history (though the commentary on this is often found in the Prophets and Paul). God chose Noah and his family to survive the flood and repopulate the earth. He chose Abraham and called him out of Ur of Chaldea and Haran into the land of Canaan. He created Isaac as the heir of promise, choosing him over Ishmael, and He chose Jacob to continue the line of promise, rather than Esau, renaming him Israel. God chose Joseph as his instrument to prepare the way for Israel’s sojourn in Egypt, and He chose Judah as line of Israel’s kings.
Moving to Exodus, we find God’s sovereign providence and election at work in the life of Moses. God chose Moses to survive Pharaoh’s slaughter of Israel’s children. God chose Moses to be His prophet to lead Israel out of Egypt, and He chose Aaron to be Moses’ spokesman and “aide-de-camp”. God chose the Pharaoh of the Exodus (who remains nameless in the Bible) to be a vessel of dishonour, a vessel of wrath, and sovereignly hardened his heart. When they left Egypt, God renewed His promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and made a special covenant with Israel: He chose them to be His special people. Among the tribes, God chose the children of Levi to be the guardians of Tabernacle/Temple worship and to be teachers of the Torah, and He chose Aaron’s line to serve as priests (cohanim).
In Ruth we find Boaz, a type of Christ, choosing Ruth to be His wife, while in Judges, God chooses the men whom He will use to cast off Israel’s oppressors. In Samuel, the people reject God as their King, and choose Saul. But God makes a choice, and chooses David to sire the line of Israel’s true kings – the man after His own heart. Moving on into the history books and the Prophets, we find God choosing men to be His spokesmen to Israel and the nations, to bring about repentance, and try as they might, like Jonah, to get away, God’s purpose prevails.
In the New Testament we find the same process at work, and we should not be surprised at this, for “Jesus Christ is the same: today, yesterday, and forever.” God raises up John the Baptist, the last of the Old Covenant prophets, to prepare the way of the LORD, the Messiah. God chooses Mary to be the mother of Jesus, and Joseph to be His adoptive father. God sends Jesus into Egypt in order to fulfil the prophecy, “Out of Egypt I called my Son.” Jesus chooses His disciples, the Twelve (including Judas), and appoints them Apostles (meaning in Greek: those sent out with a commission and authority to perform it). Among the Twelve are the ones chosen to form the so-called “inner circle”: Peter, James, and John. Following the Ascension, Christ called another to follow Him, and appointed him Apostle to the Gentiles: Saul of Tarsus, who became Paul.
On the bigger scale, God chose the Church, Jews and Gentiles, forming them into Christ’s Body, also known as His Bride. A number of Scriptures describes the Church as “the Elect”, which means “the Chosen”, a term found across a range of human authors.
“And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.” -Matt. 24:22
“And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?” -Luke 18:7
“Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifies.” -Rom. 8:33
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.” -1 Pet. 1:2
“The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth” -2 Jn. 1:1
There are of course Scriptures regarding God’s election that make us uncomfortable, in particular, Paul’s Epistle to the Romans. But consider this: nothing that Paul expounds is restricted to him. His true wisdom comes from Christ (Gal. 1:12), and much of what he writes is commentary on truths that were already revealed in the Law and the Prophets. Christ Himself said, “Many are called, but few are chosen.” (Matt. 20:16; 22:14)
Paul has a number of points he wishes to communicate when he mentions how God chose us.
At one turn, he chooses to emphasise the idea that God is sovereign and Lord. God has the right to do what He wishes with His own things: “ Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?” (Rom. 9:21).
At another, he links election to grace, salvation, and honour. So that no one may boast in God’s presence that he had saved himself, which would be a terrible insult to Christ, God has ordained that salvation should not be of works, but by the free gift of grace, that Christ may have the honour due His name. Now at this point you may say, “What has this to do with God choosing us? Don’t we choose to avail ourselves of the grace to be saved?” Well, you’d have a point if this discussion of grace, works, and honour were carried out in isolation, but the fact is that passages that discuss it also mention God’s choice in the same breath: e.g. Rom. 9:11-16; 1 Cor. 1:27-29; Eph. 1:4-6.
In yet another place Paul uses the doctrine of election to bring comfort and hope to struggling Christians. “But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thess. 2:13)
The doctrine of election is one which has spawned much controversy: but this in itself indicates its importance to us. An emotional response to such verses should highlight the need for us to meditate on them. The Romans 9 text on predestination should be read in its proper context, which is to give comfort and warmth to the Romans, assuring them of God’s steadfast and invincible love for them.
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestine to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestine, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?”
Servus Fidelis said:
Good post Nicholas. What do make of Peter in 2 Peter 1? “5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with goodness, and goodness with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual[e] affection, and mutual[f] affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is short-sighted and blind, and is forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters,[g] be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.”
Seems that the ‘elect’ can stumble and lose their calling.
For those who are converting to Catholicism they must go through what is called the Rite of Election described here:
“The Rite of Election closes the Period of the Catechumenate. This rite normally coincides with the first Sunday of Lent. At this rite, upon the testimony of sponsors and catechists and the catechumens’ affirmation of their intention to join the Church, the Church makes its “election” of these catechumens to receive the Sacraments of Initiation. In the presence of the bishop (or his delegate), they inscribe their names in the Book of the Elect at the cathedral as a pledge of fidelity. Now the catechumens are called “the elect’ or “the illuminandi” (“those who will be enlightened”). They now begin a Period of Purification and Enlightenment — the final, intense preparation for the reception of the Sacraments of Initiation. On the next five Sundays of Lent, three scrutinies (rites for self-searching and repentance) and the presentations of the Creed and Lord’s Prayer take place. This period concludes with the celebration of the Sacraments of Initiation at the Easter Vigil.”
It doesn’t mean that everyone that is elected, actually serves, and is thus saved. One must serve the Lord and their brother and be guided by the Church in order that the ‘elect’ ascend to the glorious end which this election points to.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
yES, YOU MUST DO THIS AND THAT, AND THEN THAT AND THIS AND THEN THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER THING BEFOR GOD LETS YOU BE SAVED.aCCORDING TO THE FISH HATS.
jESUS SAYS ask and it shall be given.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
What did Peter mean then, Bosco ,or don’t you believe this Apostles witness?
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
But, befor you do this and that, you have to do that and this. And only then will the fish hat let you into heaven, even though the fish hat himself isn’t going to heaven.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
blah, blah, blah . . .
More sophomoric nonsense.
LikeLike
njb4725 said:
Thank you for the comment. Regarding 2 Pet. 1, I think there are a number of ways you can take it, and since I’m not a committed Calvinist, but merely a curious inquirer, I myself am not obligated to defend that position.
Some would argue that the thrust of this is rather like doing penance after Confession: you aren’t earning your salvation, but you are making clear in your own mind and conscience that you are truly sorry for your sin and committed to living in right relationship with God and man. That seems to me what Peter is essentially saying: God’s purpose will stand, but from the human perspective, that involves co-operating with God, and living in obedience.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
It is what we believe as well Nicholas. We still retain our freewill to either labor (interiorly and exteriorly in this world) in the vineyard or not. One either confirms their election or they reject it.
I also see, in this something rarely spoken of as well: the difference between grace and extraordinary grace. God has the ability to effect both according to the saints who have done miracles in the sight of men. The extraordinary are known by God alone to have the will to use such grace to effect the work that He has given them to do.
LikeLike
njb4725 said:
Yes, as Protestants we don’t tend to know or use a lot of that terminology (even if we have the concept), so a lot of that has to be introduced and explained in dialogue.
LikeLiked by 1 person
njb4725 said:
I suppose a Calvinist would answer with “the perseverance of the saints”, which almost seems like a tautology to me. In a way, I suppose Catholics actually have this at a formal level in as much as those who are canonized are reckoned to have persevered to the point of reaching Beatitude.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed that it is right, Nicholas. We are, if properly instructed, to pray for final perseverance in the faith. It is an old tradition and one that keeps us from falling into the sin of presumption; thus keeping us on our toes, so to speak, while fighting the world, the flesh and the devil.
LikeLiked by 1 person
njb4725 said:
I think the problem I have with canonization as a system is the political aspect of it. I had a great deal of sympathy for QVO when, in his SSPX days, he was troubled by the case of JP II and others.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
I have the same sympathy myself. It seems that under JPII the requirements have been loosened to such a degree that it brings the outcome under suspicion. The miracles required have been waived in some instances and the number of them reduced. So modern canonization of such seems to cheapen the honor that we bestowed upon those who could pass all the former requirements.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
The thing is…that one cant DO anything to get salvation.Even though your religion say one has to do this and that. its a trick. Its a scam.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
Methinks that you are the trickster and the scam.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
You have to refresh my memory as to what good brother Peter said. Thanks
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
It was printed in the comment that you responded to. Did you not read what I wrote before responding?
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
I might not have got it. Im cooking and am in and out of the kitchen
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Though the way you’re going there won’t be any option but staying in the heat.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
“5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with goodness, and goodness with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual[e] affection, and mutual[f] affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is short-sighted and blind, and is forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters,[g] be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.”
“That’s what your talking about?
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Theres no mention of a extra curricular bible or things one can see. theres no mention of a queen of heaven. Theres no mention of fish hats. Peter says keep your eyes on the prize.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Do you read and actually think about what you read or does your mind just jump to areas that nobody has mentioned nor spoken of for unexplained reasons? You are all over the map. It must be very hard for you to carry on a conversation with another human being.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Perhaps you would prefer the Apostle John then?
2 John 1:8
Be on your guard, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, but may receive a full reward.
Or maybe you only listen to Apostle Paul . . .
Philippians 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
That is a exhortation to the already born again. One has to be saved to work on salvation.
These were letters to new believers. God was going to deal with them never the less.
Now your particular religion says salvation comes in stages.So, what if one dies befor one is completely saved? What does your fish hat say about that?
The bible says its immediate and sure. But, I guess that doesn’t matter. the bible says not to make and bow fefor the works of our hands. But that doesn’t stop you.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
You have no idea of that which you assert you know. There is no, partial salvation. Nobody teaches that . . . please give us your source for such nonsense. You have more than likely confused salvation with conversion (as in conversion of heart) and growth in faith, hope and charity which leads a soul to salvation???
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
You and other cathols and some prots have said its a process. If an honest cathol wants to corroborate this, let him say so. When people repeat the passage to work out salvation, that’s what they mean. Its always the unsaved that repeat this passage. The unsaved have some weird idea about what it is to be saved. they have all kinds of philosophies about being saved. That’s because they aren’t saved.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Being saved is very simple. At your judgment Christ says “‘Well done, good and trustworthy slave; you have been trustworthy in a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ Then you are saved . . . and only then.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
if salvation is immediate and complete, why do you stumble into your temple every week to renew your salvation? Your religion says its a mortal sin not to stumble in every week and eat a cracker. its scares little children with this. it tells them they will go to hell if they don’t come in every week and bow befor the fish hat.
verily, they shall have their reward.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Because God can still bring low the haughty and we are to keep the lamps lit for His return . . . or our meeting Him upon our departure from this life. We all should look to strengthen our faith so that we not stumble and be unable to finish the race and win the crown.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Jesus says “well done” to the elect.
But the condition is this…. to the damned he says…..I never knew you. Those are the people who never opened the door to him. The people who don’t know him personally. My friend,,…. a mouth full of crackers doesn’t constitute knowing him personally.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Polly want a cracker???
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Was that an admission that you are orderd to come and renew salvation every sunday, or when ever? Do you tell your catholic students that its a mortal sin not to come to mass every sunday? Id say….screw this religion if you told me that. I don’t have to do anything I don’t want.
You are duty bound to tell them they are in mortal sin if they don’t come every sunday.
hahahahahaha. how many walk out when you lay that crock on them?
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
None . . . they are real Christians and understand that Worship of God is not merely personal but collective as a member of a Church (the Bride of Christ). The people of God actually know this and do it willingly . . . even desiring to do this everyday of the week instead of only on Sunday.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
How many people walk out when you tell them they must attend on pain of death?
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
None . . . they know they can go to Confession and repent of any sin committed against God if they are truly contrite and willing to do penance for their transgression.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
I must be going to hell. ive only attend mass 3 times. Last time was in 1970
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
“You have said so” . . . to quote Christ.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Good brother Servus, I believe you to be an honest person. I believe you when you say no student has walked out. I, personally, was hoping you would say that a few has walked out.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Self control.
father Marciel. Cardinal Law. Father Corapi.
the list is endless of your own holymen. how come the holy men say everyone should be be good when they are wicked? Is it because they are all just talk? is it because its just a false religion and no one is good?
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
So you laugh and deride those who have lost their election in Christ? You should pray for them and weep that they have thrown away the Pearl of Great Price unless they repent (or did repent) before their death. You do not have any compassion within you it seems, Bosco. That is why it is hard for some of us to believe that you are actually saved.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
Lost their election? I say that these supposed priests never had election. Priests were Levites. Now, the saved are priests. Look at the prots. Men call them selfs Bishops and other things. Take a look at Bishop Eddy Long. Hes only a bishop because he calls himself a bishop. Then other fake holymen wear this holyman shirt. You know, with the white thing in the collar. Its a scam. And I expose and deride men who call themselves priests when they don’t even know Christ. They went to some man of god school and got a man of god diploma and then lead people to hell on the backs of graven images.
No. I will never speak gently about them.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
This is fruitless; kind of like trying to have a conversation with a talking parrot.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
One fine day you will agree with me.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Is hell about to freeze over then???
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
I personally knew 2 prot priests. I grew up knowing them. They were friends of my parents. One of them married my mother and father. They considered it a job. one of them used to joke about how he pronounced the word god. he was taught it in man of god school.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Protestants don’t have priests who offer up sacrifice for the sins of the people. But never mind . . . I tire of you Big Bird. Have a nice life. 🙂
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
There is only one high priest…and he has already offerd the sacrifice. It is finished.
its satanic to offer another sacrifice.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
It is the same Sacrifice, as told you countless times over the past 3 years or so. The Sacrifice of Christ is presented again (represented) to be applied to the sins of the people . . . and to make real this sacrifice for these transgressions even though committed 2000 years later. It is how we keep a perpetual Memorial of Christ’s Sacrifice . . . when we eat His Body and drink His Blood so that we might have life within us. Sad to keep having to say this to one so deaf or daft . . . whichever you are.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
I don’t know anything. im a sheep.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
A lemming is more like it.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
I would say its a mystery to me, why catholics miss the mark, when they profess belief in Christ and all he did. I was raised going to some church or another. I missed the mark, and so did everyone sitting in the pews. People feel a need for their god, but aren’t willing to be born again.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
They were born again of water and the Spirit, as Christ commanded, if they are members of the Catholic Faith. Some fight the good fight and others fall sway to the world the flesh and the devil. All are elected but not all pass the test . . . losing their election. Its really simple for those who can follow along without simply being in love with their own voice like a parrot.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
The pastor who asked followers to buy him a new $65 million aircraft blames the devil for losing the old one—and says he may need a spaceship to evangelize on Mars.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/29/creflo-dollar-demons-stole-my-private-jet.html
talk about unpopular doctrine.
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
Nicholas, here are a few more passages that might make one say, hmmm. 🙂
2 Timothy 2:5
And in the case of an athlete, no one is crowned without competing according to the rules.
James 1:12
Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon; hold fast to what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.
1 Corinthians 4:2-5
Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.
Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. Ground that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over.
1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air; but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.
Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
LikeLike
njb4725 said:
However, in Romans we read: “for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed. That is why I mentioned how this ‘extraordinary’ grace differs from the ‘ordinary’ grace. It was pivotal to the success of the Chosen People that this would be true . . . as David, with all his faults, would be raised above his elder brothers as well.
LikeLike
njb4725 said:
Yes, but I suppose the problem is in application. Who exactly has “extraordinary grace”? All of the saved? Some of the saved? Very few of the saved?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
Very few. It is a special grace for God that meets His purpose. Otherwise the same grace is offered to everyone. It is how well and to what purpose the recipient, known to God alone, will use this grace. “To you it has been given to know the secrets[b] of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. “For to those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away.” God knows those who have and those who have nothing. And special favors as the Apostles and saints have enjoyed, much like the prophets of old, were given special graces and extraordinary in comparison with the average believer.
LikeLike
Bosco the Great said:
London archaeologists have made quite a gruesome discovery.
Researchers found a 2,000-year-old cooking pot near the Walbrook river — and it was filled with human bones. The area had previously yielded 40 human skulls, but the new find adds another layer of intrigue to the mix. Archaeologists found the pot while excavating the site to make way for London’s Crossrail Project, a new railway line in the city.
I know food is expensive in London. its cheaper to eat people.
LikeLike
orthodoxgirl99 said:
Thank you Nicholas for such an interesting post and to you SF for your input. What a pity I did not have you both teaching me Religious Studies at school! It would have made the whole subject a lot more fascinating and informative. I cannot remember now which nun taught us…which I suppose says rather a lot. Mind you it was about 40 years ago!
LikeLike
njb4725 said:
Well, since I am in my 20s, I wouldn’t have been around anyway. It’s nice to have you aboard, by the way. One of my closest friends is Russian Orthodox.
LikeLike
orthodoxgirl99 said:
Thank you Nicholas. I really enjoy reading the posts…it increases my learning 🙂
LikeLike
Servus Fidelis said:
About 40 years ago, I would have been leading you towards riotous, immoral behavior . . . my conversion was only fully made about 25 years ago . . . so thank God you did not know me back then. 🙂
LikeLike
orthodoxgirl99 said:
Hehehehe! What fun! I was a searching but cynical teenager and like most people have experienced a deepening of my faith over the years. I was educated at RC convents, confirmed into the C of E and after many meanderings found my home with the Orthodox…but there lies another story.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Servus Fidelis said:
Maybe you can post about it some day. It might make for an interesting read.
LikeLike
Pingback: Het woord van de Ware God gegeven voor wijsheid te vergaren | Belgian Biblestudents - Belgische Bijbelstudenten
Pingback: With all your heart | Free Christadelphians: Belgian Ecclesia Brussel - Leuven