Of all the oddities in the version of our Faith offered by Bosco, is the one in which he maintains that Mary was not a follower of her son. He cites Mark 3:34-35 as though it meant Mary was not also his follower, and supports his misreading by misreading Mark 3:21, telling us that Mary thought Jesus was ‘mad’. For Bosco, as, sadly, for others, this passes for reading the word of God.
As we saw last time, this form of reading involves two forms of spiritual arrogance: the first is to suppose that one knows how to read the book we have through the Church better than the Church itself; and secondly, it involves ignoring what else the Bible has to say on the subject.
On Bosco’s version we are asked to believe that Mary, who was told by an angel that she was the bear the Messiah and who submitted to God’s will and praised him, somehow forgot all of that, and doubted her Son’s destiny. That would be some amnesia, and would require Bosco to explain to us how, at Cana, she knew he could turn water into wine. It would also require him to explain why and when she became a believer, as we see her in Acts when the Spirit descends.
The evidence is overwhelming that Mary believed the revelation she had received, so let us explain what the verses which seem not to fit mean. Let us take the most egregious misreading first. Mark 3:21, even in the King Jame’s version, says that And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. There is no mention of the mother of Jesus, so quite why Bosco thinks Mary thought her Son mad, only he can tell us. As for the other Markan verse, again, read in context, Jesus is reminding us that all who follow him have a family relationship with him.
The interesting question here is why, in the face of the evidence of Luke that Mary knew her Son was the Messiah, and in the face of the evidence she was with Him at Calvary and with the Apostles when the Spirit descended at the first Pentecost, some people have so much of a problem with Our Lady that they resort to telling lies about her? The main lie is one repeated by Bosco ad nauseam and that is that Catholics treat Mary like some ancient Greeks treated Diana of the Ephesians – that is they worship her. There is clearly some visceral problem here.
The most likely explanation is the the very patriarchal nature of the societies of the sixteenth century out of which Protestantism emerged, and Mark Shea does a good job outlining this argument, which to my mind goes to the heart of the problem. The Bible, like the Church, has always been clear on this – every generation is to call Our Lady ‘blessed’, and we do, every generation acknowledges that her soul magnifies the Lord, and we are. Let us hope and pray that one day Grace will be given to those like Bosco, who rely on their own reading and treat it as infallible.
Servus Fidelis said:
Hail, full of grace!
Seems Bosco thinks her vessel was cracked and that she lost all this grace.
More and more, I am seeing his voice to be the voice of the ancient Accuser of God’s People; a mouthpiece of the Serpent.
He should like this verse: Rev. 12:10
“And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.”
For he does go on about the end times a lot and seems to be stepping up his game. His accusations against the Catholic Church are taking on an air of PRIDE, as if it is his greatest accomplishment to have scandalized the Church. Let us pray, for the poor soul of Bosco.
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Bosco the Great said:
`I am more proud of what I did to the Jehovas. I was invited into their homes to talk and debate. Im really not puffed up with pride. I was privileged to witness to them.
There is only one who died for my sins.
Bosco never though Mary lost her grace. Im accused falsely all the time when someone is hurt by my words. This Mary that is worshiped by cathols isn’t the Mary of the bible. Anyone can be named Mary. The original deception was the CCs attempt to draw in the Diana worshipers to the new state religion by hanging a Mary sign on Diana images. This is common knowledge. Sunday was given to appease the sun worshipers. But the elect never fell for this. that’s why the CC persecuted them
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Servus Fidelis said:
Did you not say during our many discussions, the following?
Jesus was just a man
Mary did not believe Jesus was the Son of God
Mary did not follow Christ: an unbeliever
This brings up other anti-Christian conclusions which you have implied:
Jesus is not God
The Eternal God is not All Good, All Knowing, and All seeing; for if He was, He knew Mary’s entire life before she was even conceived. And He chose an unbeliever, for the mother of His Only Begotten Son
God entrusted His Only Begotten Son to a sinner and a scoffer and it took an apostle to ‘save’ her, because God was unable to do this Himself
When you tell us that Christ stands at the door and knocks and that all we must do is open the door and He will come in and sup with us, what is he really saying?
You are saying that Jesus (a mere man) knocks at our door. Then you rail about the teachings and laws of men. If Christ is a man then why should we listen to Him? Why do we want to have him come and sup with us?
But you claim that this will ‘save’ us, once and for all. That we need worry no more about sin. All is forgiven; past, present and future and all of this, presumably without any effort of our own.
So you scandalize and accuse Christians in the Church to come out of her. Is that the voice of God or of the Accuser who would rob people of their rightful end?
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus was a man. Jesus spirit was the Holy Ghost. he shed his divinity to be one of us. Mary had no idea he was the Creator. She did while in Johns care though. Jesus is all there is. he holds every thing together, even the atoms in our bodies. Open the door to Christ. He will come in and sup with you.
All have sinned. mary was a sinner. catholic lore has Mary as being sinless. Why would god chose a sinner for his mother?. that’s because the CC is one lie after another. All men are sinners, but Mary was exempt, according to the CC. this is what the scripture warn us against…worshiping the creature more than the creator.
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chalcedon451 said:
Really? Have you read Luke 1, lately? She was told he was the Messiah, the Son of God. Do you think she forgot that? Can something pure exist in something corrupt? Jesus had Mary’s DNA, if it was corrupted, he would have been a sinner. We are told he was not a sinner, so how could he have inherited corrupt DNA? Do try to make some sense.
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Bosco the Great said:
Corrupt DNA. That’s a good one. Haaaahahahahaha.
We are told he was not a sinner.
I noticed you put yourself in check befor saying…we are told Mary wasn’t a sinner.
All men have sinned and come short the glory of god. All men means all men, and women.
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chalcedon451 said:
You failed to explain how a corrupt being can give birth to an uncorrupt one.
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Bosco the Great said:
You talk of flesh. Its all about flesh. Then Marys mother had to be uncorrupt, and her mother, and her mother.
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chalcedon451 said:
Do you have so little faith, brother? When the Lord was conceived in her Virgin womb the Father had ensured she was without sin. Yes, Jesus is flesh and spirit. The Church emphasises both because it knows how to read the Bible; you go on about spirit because you, as yet unsaved, cannot read it properly. Get saved. The Church was founded by Jesus – join his church.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
C, I haven’t figured out yet how to “like” comments so I will just have to say it here:
Like!
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No Man's Land said:
You have to read the comments from your WordPress Reader or notifications to hit the like on comments.
Thanks for the follow btw.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Thank you kindly. I see now how to “like” comments that are specifically addressed to me, but I don’t see how to like general comments in those long comment threads in which I am a passive reader and not actively leaving comments myself.
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No Man's Land said:
You’re welcome. Just go to your WordPress Reader and click on the comments portion of some blog within the WordPress Reader itself. The comments will pop up as well the like option underneath each comment.
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Servus Fidelis said:
No, we are worshipping God and we give God more credit than you do. He doesn’t call a sinner ‘full of grace’ when a sinner obviously is not.
What differentiates Christ from you – who received a new spirit – which is presumably the same Spirit that Christ had (the Holy Spirit)?
And if that is true – you too are divine as is all who have been saved – because they are ‘in Christ’ through the Spirit. And of course, that is what we do believe and why Mary and the Saints might intercede for us in prayer.
Where you come up with these things is a pure mystery though I know that evil can convince people of many other evil thoughts as well..
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Bosco the Great said:
All men have sinned and come short the glory of god.
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Servus Fidelis said:
So Jesus, being born a man, sinned and was born of Mary, who sinned, and thus inherited at the very least original sin? You are a theology of one, Bosco. You have it all figured out and to think that you worked all of this out on your own some 2000 years later. Amazing how for 2000 years all the Christians had it wrong but now you, by yourself, can set us all straight. And you say you are not proud? But of course, the proud never think they are proud. Just like the humble never think they are humble.
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco, as I’ve already pointed out to you, Diana was a goddess of the Hunt. Mary is not. Nor is she considered a goddess by Catholics.
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh jeeze. Good brother Newengland, the fountain of knowledge. Go back to sleep.
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chalcedon451 said:
But Bosco, do provide some evidence that Romans were worshipping Diana, and so convinced by Mary that they were as silly as you and mistook the one for the other? Dear me, sometimes you give me a good laugh!
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Bosco the Great said:
maybe I didn’t make it clear. But I think you know good brother Chalcedon. Why are you giving me a hard time? You know it was the Ephesians that worshiped Diana. the Cc was trying to flatter as many different pagan religions as there were around. The Vatican has Jupiter sitting up there big as day. The CC is an amalgam of all pagan religions. This is even admitted to by some cathols. there is even a name for it, but I keep forgetting it, an no cathols want to remind me, in here that is. Too embarrassing. the idolaters in catholic answers used to tell me the name of this practice.
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chalcedon451 said:
All of this is stuff made up by enemies of the Church with zero evidence to support it. Analyse your own ‘argument’. It amounts to ‘Ephesians worshipped Diana, so the Church worshipped Mary, and the Ephesians came across.’ That is not an argument, it is an assertion which, incidentally, insults St Paul. If your argument was true, you’d expect Paul to mention Mary in order to convince the Ephesians. What’s that? He doesn’t? Ah well, another busted argument which shows that those outside the Church can’t understand its book. Get wise, Bosco, get saved, leave your cult and join Christ’s Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
Paul would come into a city and preach Christ and him crucified. He didn’t dwell on every false god the people had. The idol makers in Ephesia went to kill Paul because he was hurting their idol business, much the same way cathols hate me because im bad for their fake false religion. if people believe my report, they would leave false religions.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Actually Bosco, to any thinking man, you are good for our business as you like to call it. As an ambassador of Christ and the Christian religion you drive people away from you and toward a more rational faith. You might do as C asked, and simply join the Catholic Church since you are sending us so much business anyway.
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chalcedon451 said:
Sorry, you said the Church made Diana into Mary to win the Ephesians. I said there’s no trace of it in Paul’s letters abd, as usual when you are busted, you ignore it.
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Bosco the Great said:
Paul was long gone befor the state run religion showed up.
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chalcedon451 said:
So Paul wasn’t bright enough to see how to win over the Ephesians? You do make me laugh.
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newenglandsun said:
“For a man named Deme′trius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Ar′temis, brought no little business to the craftsmen.” (Acts 19:24)
“And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Ar′temis may count for nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship.”” (Acts 19:27)
“When they heard this they were enraged, and cried out, “Great is Ar′temis of the Ephesians!”” (Acts 19:28)
“But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all with one voice cried out, “Great is Ar′temis of the Ephesians!”” (Acts 19:34)
“And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd, he said, “Men of Ephesus, what man is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Ar′temis, and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?” (Acts 19:35)
Artemis, incidentally, is the Greek equivalent to Diana. Sounds like St. Paul spent heavy time on Diana refuting this Diana cult.
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Bosco the Great said:
Thank you good brother newengland. I owe you one. If you noticed, good brother Chalcedon didn’t pop up and say hes sorry for jamming me up when I was rite and he was wrong. I usually don’t go that rout of rite and wrong, but lets see if the good brother will do the rite thing and apologize to me. We both can see now his grip on scripture isn’t as iron clad as he like to believe.
yes, Artemus was another name for Diana. The image that fell out the sky
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newenglandsun said:
Lots of laughs, Bosco. I guess that’s what clowns do. It was C who called you on your fraud about Diana in the first place. I’m backing C up here. Don’t think for a second I’m on your side. I will never side with the Devil.
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chalcedon451 said:
i never denied that there was a goddess, I denied that Catholics turned her into Mary. As we have already seen, Paul, do did a lot of work in Ephesus, never once mentioned Mary. So, another fail for Bosco.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im not surprised. cathols do this all the time. Paul never mentioned Facebook, so its OK to use it. You Say Diana isn’t mentioned by name, so he never jammed anyone about Diana worship. Oh, its never mentioned so it doesn’t exist. Catholicism turns a mans mind into malt-o-meal. Oh, but we have dulia and hyper dulia and then worship. What……its not mentioned in the bible? Oh, but Mary is co redeemer and floated up to heaven…What, its not in the bible? We believe it like its gospel.Oh, Bosco, youre wrong because its not mentioned in bible what books should be there, so your stupid and a liar….but Mary stood at the foot of the cross smiling and waving, even thought Roman troops were at the foot of the cross. Oh, uh , we cathols will say anything. Of course, we just made our own bible because all the stuff we believe that isnr t in the bible became so large, we had to put it in a thick book so to keep track of it. We call it the catechism. Oh yes, we beat Bosco over the head with…..You fool, its not in the bible so we don’t believe it.
Now whos the liar?
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chalcedon451 said:
That wasn’t what he said. We both said Paul didn’t invoke Mary which, if you were right, surely he would have done?
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newenglandsun said:
“Im not surprised. cathols do this all the time. Paul never mentioned Facebook, so its OK to use it. You Say Diana isn’t mentioned by name, so he never jammed anyone about Diana worship.”
HA HA WHAT?!? I showed you that Paul did jam people about Diana worship. C was asking you to show him why Paul never used Mary as a tactic for getting the Ephesians to join Christianity if Mary = Diana. I have shown you NUMEROUS times that Mary is NOT Diana and yet you continue to say we worship Diana. Now who’s the liar?!?
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Bosco the Great said:
I don’t think Paul ever mentioned Mary. Maybe he forgot to say that shes the only way to get to Jesus. The CC says shes the only way to Jesus. Paul musta forgot. What…..its not in the bible?
Her good brother Newengland, whats the word for taking pagan things and turning them into godly things? Thanks in advance.
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chalcedon451 said:
More lies. Quote me where the Church says Mary is the ‘only’ way to Jesus? The father of lies has his spirit in you Bosco.
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newenglandsun said:
I believe the word you are looking for is syncretism but there is no syncretism with Mary as A) she was never something that was Pagan, and B) she was always godly.
That Mary is the only way to Jesus is clearly implied from the fact that she was the one who gave birth to him.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Some commenters dress like clowns and crave attention for themselves.
Mary, on the other hand, dressed herself in humility and sought no one but the Lord. “Lo, I am the handmaid of the Lord, may it be done to me according to thy word” (Lk 1:38). “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord” (Lk 1:46). “Do whatever he tells you” (John 2:5).
When the heart is open to loving, and not maligning, Mary, great graces flood the soul, resulting in knowledge and love of the Lord.
Yup, I sound Catholic, don’t I? Thanks be to God! I speak from experience, however, and not from dogma.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Amen, and amen, Zeke. Well said for any Christian.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Thank you Servus, I am a fence sitter (have always been reluctant to join any church) but I am on my way into the Catholic Church, thanks be to God. The posts here and the discussions are helpful to me.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I’m happy if they help and it gladdens my heart that you have stepped from the fence post and started your journey. We are happy to have your voice here as well.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
The journey actually started way back in the ’70’s when I bought some books with money my grandmother gave me. One book was Thomas Merton’s autobiography and he became sort of a role model to me, although it took me years to understand why. I’ve been reading books about faith ever since but I am a slow reader and a slow study…but I’m getting there.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed you are. I didn’t get the bug until the the early 90’s and am also a slow reader which is why it is remarkable that I read over 300 titles in the next few years. Where there is a will, there is a way, I guess.
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Bosco the Great said:
aye, good brother Zeke, what in the catholic church caught your eye?
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chalcedon451 said:
Probably the fact Jesus founded it. When you get saved, you’ll understand. Whatever that spirit it, is makes you tell lies and give way to lust. You need the Holy Spirit.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Authentic sanctity.
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Bosco the Great said:
I’ve been wondering what group good brother Zeke subscribes to. its said hes not a cathol, yet he believes Mary to be a deity. I guess he could be Anglican or Lutheran. Lutherans still believe Mary is up there interceding for man.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Let’s be clear here. I never said I wasn’t Catholic despite how you interpreted my words. I said I was a Christian. I make no distinction because Catholics are Christians.
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Bosco the Great said:
You make no distinctions. I do. catholics are catholic. Mormons are Mormons. There are two kinds of people. The saved and the unsaved.The saved don’t pray to men and don’t subscribe to religions that have their flock bowing befor the works of their own hands. catholics obey a man who calls himself the Holy father. The saved follow the Lamb.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
I understand that is what you believe.
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newenglandsun said:
Those who are being saved and those who are saved follow the Lamb. Which is why you are currently neither saved nor in the process of being saved. Would you like to start being saved?
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NEO said:
No comment really needed here. You, and especially Mark, hit that nail on the head with a might blow.
I do believe his appraisal of capitalism is very shallow and inaccurate though, although it is common. I’d prescribe “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” by Adam Smith.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im glad you decided to address this. It might do somebody some good. It was said Mary knew Jesus would turn water into wine. I doubt if she knew that’s what he was going to do. She must have known he could do things, because he must have done things around the house.
You see, building these attributes into good sister Mary just fuels the myth that she was more than she was. Sure, she is blesses for all generations, no doubt.
Now, take a look at the lore that has been built around her by the CC. this takes her out of the realm of a hand maid to co redeemer and dispenser of all grace. To having sufferd at the cross to participate in mans redemption.
This is what happens when mans understanding takes over.
Jesus didnt seem to think she should be honord as queen of heaven. he corrected someone who wanted to bless the paps that gave him suck. Jesus said “no”, rather give glory to god. When Mary and a couple of his sibling were outside calling, , Jesus said his family were those who did the will of the Lord, and he didn’t go outside to see what they wanted, even though he knew, he used that to show that even parents and siblings shouldn’t be held so much in esteem as to stop ones ministry.
Then come this images. Ive seen picture of a female, who is supposed to be Mary, Standing at the foot of the cross, looking all saintly and making it seem like she was in somehow part of all this. God has done his best to warn us against images. the weak of mind and the unlearned are swayed by these images. They are created with malice in mind by people with a devilish agenda. Even a cursory reading of the NT shows there were feared roman guards at the foot of the cross, and they were tormenting Christ and gambling for his clothes.
Then Jesus put Mary in Johns care because John was beloved of the Lord and would lead Mary to the Lord. Jesus siblings weren’t followers of his. That’s why he put her in care of a follower. None had the holy ghost yet. They got born again at pentacost. By that time, some of Jesus sibs came to want to believe and there were a few of them at pentacost.
Once one is born again, these false images will melt away. People have been saved out of wors situations other that Mary worship. Paul was much worster than being a simple catholic or Mormon.
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, let us see. If Mary did not know that Jesus would turn water into wine, why did she tell the men to do what he said? Do you suppose she forgot what the angel said, that her son would be the Messiah? As that’s unlikely, she knew who he was and that it as time that he began to reveal it to the world. It’s all there in the Bible, but perhaps you missed it out in your haste to downgrade her role?
Now, let’s take apart your wilful misunderstandings. I say wilful, because these things have been explained to you so often that it is amazing you don’t take it in. By co-redeemer, the Church means the simple fact that Mary’s assent to God’s plan brought her son into the world. I know you think God raped Mary,but no one else does, and therefore her cooperation with the Spirit opened the way to our redemption. In saying that all believers were his family, as I explain here (did you actually read the post?) he is not downgrading his mother, he is elevating his followers. He cared so much for his mother that when he was dying the most agonising death imaginable, he made sure that she was looked after. He knew, even if you can’t se it, that she had no other children of her own, so he asked St John to look after her. This is inconceivable if she had her own children, as they would have done that, as Jewish sons do to this day.
No one, except you, thinks anyone worships Mary. You are wrong, but seem fixated.
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Bosco the Great said:
This is inconceivable if she had her own children,
its only inconceivable if one believes the CCs cunningly devised fables.
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chalcedon451 said:
No, do a little work on Jewish customs before exposing your ignorance. If James and Joses had been Mary’s own sons, it would have been their duty in law to look after her, and it would have been a great insult to them to entrust her to anyone else. Now you may think that one of Our Lord’s last acts on earth was to upset his family, but most normal people think he was trying get his mother taken care of. If they had been her kids, he’s have had no problem, if they weren’t, he would have had, as he needed, as he only son, to find someone to care for her – so he chose his cousin John as the nearest blood relative.
Easy when you know some Jewish law and customs.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus was always in trouble for “breaking” jewish law. Jesus said, what man wouldn’t save a sheep out of trouble on the Sabbath. It was against jewish law to work on the Sabbath. haven’t cathols heard….Jesus fulfilled the law.
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chalcedon451 said:
He ‘broke’ the letter but fulfilled the spirit – as he did when he died. So, tough luck, your argument, always weak, just fell over.
Unless you can show that it was usual for Jews to leave their mother in the care of a cousin rather than a child, you’re stuck with what the Church which gave you the Bible always taught – which is that the other kids were Joseph’s. It must be hard not understanding the Bible and having to spin away everything which doesn’t fit with your prejudice. I’d give it up and join Christ’s Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
Site chapter and verse that says the siblings were Josephs…and ill go away and never come back, and ill join the catholic church. if you cant find this, explain to us all where you got this info.
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chalcedon451 said:
That’s another busted record. You cite the chapter and verse that says what the Books of the Bible are and the ones which say it contains everything we need to know about Jesus, and I will admit your method is a good one to use? What, you can’t? Then it must be a bad method.
The information comes from the same place that tells us what books are in the NT – the early Church.
So, one one side we have yet more evidence that your ‘spirit’ does not understand how to read the Bible, and on the other, evidence that if you follow the Church and its tradition, everything becomes clear.
Give it up, Bosco, you;’re busted and you know it.
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Bosco the Great said:
cathols put more stock in the book than they do in whom the book speaks of.
2 Timothy 3:16 | All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Asking where does it say which books should be there is a weird question. the letters and the rest were just gatherd by the spirit. the authors had no idea we would be reading them. Cathols worry more about who glued them together than about who they speak of.
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chalcedon451 said:
As usual when busted you change the point. The point is your method can’t even explain the Bible, mine does.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
I notice that B starts using the derisive term “Cathols” he is stooping to insult because his arguments hold no water.
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chalcedon451 said:
They are as full of holes as a fishing net 😄
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Bosco the Great said:
Haaaaahahahaha. I use cathol because it saves me from typing 2 more letters. You think im bad. God has a lake of fire for ppl who worship false gods and the unbelieving. haha. Time to stop worrying about stupid ol Bosco and worry about He who can burn your body and soul in hell. get off your knees from befor that statue of some female and drop those Babylonian beads. seek the Lord while he may be found
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Servus Fidelis said:
Babylonian beads. You seem to not understand where the beads first were started and used for: they were used to recite all 150 psalms from memory. Is that pagan as well? Does it drive your ‘new spirit’ wild with rage? I bet it does. The rosary grew from that to a devotional prayer that anyone can participate in. It has 15 meditations that are scriptural and we think on them for a time period of what it takes us to say 10 Hail Mary’s. How horrible it must be to the demons to see men and women praying and meditation on the content of the Bible. Don’t forget that we say the creed and we also pray an Our Father before each mystery is meditated upon. Ohhh for shame.
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chalcedon451 said:
When you join the Church Jesus founded, you can stop worrying. Ever noticed there’s only one person here bangs on about lakes of fire? That’s the Spirit telling you that’s where you’ll go unless you repent and join the Church. You won’t be able to say no one warned you – you’ll have no excuse.
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Bosco the Great said:
You keep asking me, for yrs, to cite the verse that says what books should be in the bible. Ive never said there was such a verse or concept. never. But I asked you to back up your catholic lore about Joseph and his kids but you cant.You said it come from the CC. Ok, its not in scripture. neither is Mary floating up to heaven, yet cathols believe it as gospel. This kind of blind devotion will keep men from the salvation that is from Christ. You die expecting Mary to pray for you at the hr of your death, you will wake up in hell. one must be born again to see the kingdom. One cant expect someone else to do it for them. But the CC tells its flock to not worry, Mary will take care of everything. My friend ed thinks Mary will save him. he grew up catholic.
Satan figured, if he cant beat them, join them. Start a religion that will keep mans eyes on men instead of the invisible god.
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chalcedon451 said:
You just don’t get it. You say show me Scripture, I say you show me, you can’t, I can’t because your method doesn’t work. It is a sign you are not saved.
The Church, which tells us the books that are NT, tells us the kids were Joseph’s. My method answers both questions, your’s answers neither – it is man made and does not rest on the rock of the Church of Jesus. Repent and confess.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Bosco, I never said you were “bad” so don’t assume you know what I am thinking. What I said is that you used a derisive term. I am particular about words and a stickler for facts, I like to use ’em the right way.
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Bosco the Great said:
Its my understanding that the earliest prayer beads were in Babylon, the religion of Nimrod. Then, the hindus took them on in India. I don’t want to ask Good brothe Chalcedon to confirm that because he has let me down recently. I understand a historian doesn’t know everything…like I do. (;-D
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chalcedon451 said:
Bosco, your confusion grows. You offer no evidence that the use of the Rosary, which began in the Middle Ages, had any connection with something which happened a thousand yours earlier. you actually have to provide evidence, and assertion is not evidence.
Do you not see how the father of lies is using you?
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Bosco the Great said:
Prayer beads may have their origins in the Eastern religions in India in the 3rd century BC. The use of knotted prayer ropes in Christianity goes back to the Desert Fathers in the 3rd and early 4th centuries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Rosary
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chalcedon451 said:
‘May’? You’ve been telling us all it was a fact. Losing track of the lies now?
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Bosco the Great said:
Buddhist mala also typically consist of strands of 108 beads, reflecting the religion’s historical connection to Hinduism. In Buddhism, the 108 beads represent the impurities or lies that one must overcome in order to reach Nirvana. Most monks wear 108 beads for use in counteracting their 108 impurities, whereas lay people tend to wear only 30 or 40 beads. The difference in the number of beads used is a result of the spiritual differences in what different people must overcome or how far they have come on the path to enlightenment. Buddhist prayer beads have traditionally been made from the wood or seeds of the sacred Bodhi tree. As Buddhism spread throughout China, Korea, Japan, and Tibet, it was influenced by the various cultures of those areas and a number of new materials such as bone, amber, and semi-precious stones began to be used for prayer beads
http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/minigalleries/prayerbeads/intro.shtml
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chalcedon451 said:
Indeed. You will notice no mention of any connection to the Rosary. Not many Buddhists in 13th century France. Busted again, Bosco. Chuck it, get saved, join Christ’s Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
“Before the 12th century, rosaries were used for
talismans (amulet or occult charms). Rosaries and
prayer beads were intended by the catholic church
hierarchy, for use by the ignorant.”
-A HISTORY OF PRAYING ON BEADS
Patricia A. Dilley
“Pagans had used prayer beads even before the
8th century before CHRIST, and they still use
them today.”
-A HISTORY OF PRAYING ON BEADS
Patricia A. Dilley
The Bible warns us against use of prayer beads –
Matthew 6:7 says – “But when ye pray, use not vain
repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that
they shall be heard for their much speaking.
“And when you pray, do not…repeat the same
words over and over as the Gentiles (pagans) do,
for they think they will be heard for their much
speaking.”
(Matthew 6:7)(AMP)-BibleGateway
“But when praying, do not say the same things
over and over again, just as the people of the
nations do, for they imagine they will get a
hearing for their use of many words.”
(Matthew 6:7)(NWT)
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chalcedon451 said:
So, you take an anti-Catholic source as though it was true? Your father (of lies) is strong in you tonight Luke.
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chalcedon451 said:
Try this, since you like wiki – at least this is accurate:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary
I can’t believe even you fall for Dilley – no, correction, I can. Get saved, join Christ’s Church.
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njb4725 said:
I imagine Mary must have had a very difficult time after Joseph passed. No one can begin to imagine what it would be like to know that your Son is God and that God must die that Man might live. Mystery of mysteries…
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chalcedon451 said:
Indeed, Nick, and contrary to what poor Bosco thinks, it was (and is) the Jewish practice for the sons and daughters to look after the widow. With Jesus dead, if Mary had, as Bosco says, had other children, they would have looked after her, as they were not her’s but Joseph’s, they had no such obligation – hence asking John to look after her.
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njb4725 said:
I wonder what it was like being in that family – as I recall, in John it says that Jesus’ “brothers” didn’t believe in Him – though obviously James was a believer after the Resurrection for sure. It must have been difficult for Mary to watch.
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chalcedon451 said:
Very, not least since John and James were cousins. It seems as though Mary’s side of the family believed, but Joseph’s side were sceptical. One can see a family dynamic in which that would make sense.
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njb4725 said:
Yes, particularly if they had any dealings with the Pharisees. Now John the Apostle was formerly a follower of John the Baptist – one wonders what sort of personal connections existed in those days…one gets the feeling that, unlike our giant cities today, in that period “everyone knew everyone”.
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Bosco the Great said:
yes, it was tradition to entrust a mother to a child upon the eldest childs death. But we are not dealing with any old Hebrew family.The CCs obcession with sex has Mary being a virgin. that is an insane idea. It was a crown of glory to have children. Joseph didn’t know Mary…”until’ after Jesus was born. Children were old age social security. its berserk to think Mary and joseph didn’t consummate their marriage. Anyway, the bible is clear jesus had siblings, no matter what catholic folk lore says.
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chalcedon451 said:
Sorry, I thought you were the one saying she was like any other woman, so why, all of a sudden, is it not ‘any old Hebrew family’?
The Law is clear, and you have no argument against it, and you know it. You’re busted on this one Bosco. John was Jesus’ cousin on his mother’s side and the closest blood-relative. To the end, Jesus followed the Law.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus and his followers ate corn without washing their hands.
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newenglandsun said:
C, I’m not certain if patriarchal societies can be attributed to the growing decline of Mary’s influence in the Church. Martin Luther had a high devotion toward her and considered her “Queen of Heaven”. Though he strongly advised holding these as more pious opinions as cautionary so that it would not seem as if Mary had been exalted to deity. Of course, John Wesley also considered Mary to be Ever-Virgin as well though he was influenced greatly by his own mother and also licensed several women to preach (no clue if these were actually ordained women though). Then you turn to the Quakers, the Salvation Army, and the other Anabaptists who also permitted women to hold authority in their churches (though they were simply anarchist in general). None of these churches holds high value for the sacraments or Mary yet cannot be considered patriarchal.
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NEO said:
I think, and suspect C. does as well, that he means the world beyond the church as well. It’s hard to think of Henry VIII’s quest for a son as any thing but patriarchal, and there are plenty of other examples.
In many ways, I can easily see Anne Boleyn as a proto-feminist and she paid a high price for it. but her daughter became one of the greatest of English monarchs. It was a changing world.
Interestingly and somewhat off topic, I was just watching BBC 4″s inside Wolf Hall and somebody (the director, I think) made the point that this all happened about 500 years ago and Islam is about 500 years younger than Christianity. Could there be a parallel there? I don’t know but, it’s an interesting conceit, at least.
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Bosco the Great said:
Its said that I, Bosco, scandalize the CC. I guess they are implying that if there were no Bosco the Great there would be no scandal. believe me, the CC does a fine job of scandalizing itself with out bad ol Bosco.
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chalcedon451 said:
No, no, you’re small fry, for the most part you simply demonstrate daily that the unsaved can’t understand the Bible. However much you have memorised it, you don’t understand what you read – 2 Peter 3 applies.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im going to sue you if you don’t stop using my line.
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chalcedon451 said:
The problem is, Bosco, you’re the one who keeps having to explain away the Bible. Give it up, you’re busted and you know it. When you get properly saved you’ll begin to understand – at the moment you keep having to explain away everything Jesus said and did.
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Bosco the Great said:
Hmmmmm. jesus is a big boy. I don’t feel the need to explain anything he said. I hoped this would be a platform to clear up the false belief that people are up there answering prayer. its good to debate and explain ones belief. One day, everyone will know the truth. Some will awake to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt. Instead of looking at bosco for the truth, there is Jesus at the door with all thruth, and hes asking you to open for him. Bosco cant help. But He can.
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Servus Fidelis said:
You do seem to be full of thruth, whatever that is.
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Bosco the Great said:
I am a messenger. I am nothing of myself.
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Servus Fidelis said:
A messenger for whom, is what puzzles us. It is not of Christ or the Apostles so it does seem that it is all about yourself = though you would like us to believe that it is not.
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chalcedon451 said:
He’s a message that shows you can twist Scripture to your own damnation. We must continue to pray for him.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Aye, I have been and will continue to do so. It is sad to see someone so lost his own self-made quagmires.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, poor soul, even when all his man-made arguments fall apart on him, all he can do is repeat them – not seeing that the only vain repetitions here are his own statements. Let us hope he gets saved.
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Servus Fidelis said:
So true. When his arguments all fall apart and the scriptures are explained in a reasonable fashion, he cannot let go of his original thoughts; for they serve to excuse him and condemn all others. It may be more of a psychological malady that has invaded his spirit. It is hard to determine.
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chalcedon451 said:
Whatever the spirit, it has him in a death-grip. Even he ought to be able to see that the only witness he gives is to the futility of the arguments he uses.
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Servus Fidelis said:
It may sadly be his only lifeline to sanity. It excuses him of all deficiencies and gives him certainty in life; something we all want but do not get until Christ says “well done, good and faithful servant.”
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chalcedon451 said:
He is a fascinating study, not least because I am convinced he loves Jesus. This is what will save him. He is so filled with untruths he thinks are true that there is not enough room for the Truth. Still, the Lord is working here and we must do His bidding.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Confession is the answer, I think. Then, he might emerge with the words of Christ resounding in his mind, “Go, and sin no more.” This would not be the certainty he desires but it should replace that with hope based on something real and not a concoction of his own mind.
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chalcedon451 said:
We can only hope and pray. There is a powerful love of Jesus there, but too much hate for a twisted version of his Church.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I think you are right and I also think that there is something personal about his hatred concerning the Catholic Church. Something tells me there is more to the story . . . somewhere he feels that he was wronged or persecuted or abused by the Church or someone in it.
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chalcedon451 said:
He has told us that a partner is one of the sources. Much evil has been done by the actions of some priests; perhaps this is a result of it?
Bosco is a good man who loves Jesus. Let us pray for healing. It is not, I think, his fault he is this way.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I totally agree. I have a brother-in-law that was abused by a priest as a boy. He will not even speak of this outside of his wife – which I found out through my wife. It is totally understandable how one who has been so mistreated cannot separate the Church from the person; both on an emotional and a psychological level. They feel guilty themselves for what someone else did to them and their is no place to go (because another priest in another confessional is out of the question). For a person like Bosco, who loves Jesus, instead of becoming an atheist, becomes a Church of one and instead of absolution he gives himself the keys to heaven. Pray we must if this be the case. It may be a very sad story.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, I can see how that could happen. How, save through Grace, is anyone so abused, or who knows someone so abused, to see holiness through such a covering? Fearful the millstone round the necks of such men, for on top of their crime, the add that of driving people away from the Church.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Wise and true words my friend. May God give them peace and may those who have abused them be forgiven for such heinous sins that kill both the body and the soul. Lord have mercy.
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chalcedon451 said:
Amen, my friend.
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newenglandsun said:
Bosco, to prove I am a prophet ordained by God and know Jesus perfectly, I am going to make a series of predictions that will come true.
You’ll accuse us of idolatry.
You’ll accuse us of worshiping the goddess Diana.
You’ll say the Pope has a fish-hat.
You’ll say that the Pope is a priest of Babylon.
You’ll say that the Pope is a follower of Dagon because of his fish-hat.
You’ll say that the saved follow the Lamb.
JK–none of this proves I’m a prophet of God. It’s what you ALWAYS do!
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Bosco the Great said:
Well, yes, that is what I always say. it shows you pay attention. Good for you my friend.
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chalcedon451 said:
It is, daily you show the saved how ignorant the unsaved are and how useless they are at reading the book the Church tells us is the Bible. Chuck it, Bosco, you know now all you do is witness to the truth of the Church – now join it.
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Armchair Philosopher said:
No one can love Mary more than her own son.
I believe a distinction in terms of reverence would also be good here C. I forgot the terms, I believe dulia or something of that sort? It has been a while for me.
And hello to all, glad to see everyone is still around. I dont know if any remember me, but this is circlecitadel.
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chalcedon451 said:
So good to have you back. Yes, you are right, but poor Bosco is already v confused 😄. Hope you are well?
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Armchair Philosopher said:
Im doing alright, just the ups and downs of typical life haha! I’ll be seeing you all more often as I return to blogging 🙂 tell jess hi for me, would you? I saw she’s sick. I hope she is doing well.
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chalcedon451 said:
Good to have you back. I will pass on your best – she’s on the mend, thank goodness.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I remember you well. I will have to get used to the new monicker.
The term dulia is the respect that we should have for saints, and hyperdulia is what is owed to Mary. And worship is only offered to God alone. Don’t let Bosco know. 🙂
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Bosco the Great said:
Dulia , hyprdulia, worship. is there some switch that you dial to? How does one switch from one to the other?
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chalcedon451 said:
Most people have working brains. How do you switch from chewing gum to walking?
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Bosco the Great said:
Ok, im doing dulia now. Here we gooooo….Ok, now im switching to hyperdulia(Click)….away we goooooooo….. Ooops, I need latria now, ….wheres that stupid dial?h here it is(click)…..Away we gooooooo.
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chalcedon451 said:
Poor Bosco. Must be hard on you having no idea what the book canonised by the Church Christ founded actually means. We shall continue to pray for your salvation.
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Bosco the Great said:
Thanks, I need prayer.
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chalcedon451 said:
You do, we all do. You have a powerful love for Jesus, and that will enable you to escape the demons, Bosco. Know this, I love you like a brother, and I want you to be saved.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Many of us pray for you Bosco and also consider you a brother that we love in Christ,, as C says. Indeed we all desire to see one another someday in Heaven. Your salvation is important to us just like our own salvation is.
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Bosco the Great said:
Jesus loves us all the same. he didn’t esteem Mary more than he did anybody. But he loved John. Not to say he doesn’t love us. he does.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Oh yes, and latria (adoration) is only offered to God as well. All three of differing degrees of respect. 🙂
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Armchair Philosopher said:
I should’ve used my old nick. Oh well. I wont hold it against you if you dont haha im still putting 2014 on forms!
Ah! Not degrees, but categories. Its a relation of creature/creator. But if I know bosco well, the terms will fly over his head anyways lol
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Bosco the Great said:
Good brother Servus, im going to tell Mary you give her a lessor inferior worship. I don’t know how shes going to take it, but I suggest you were a tin foil hat from now on.
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Bosco the Great said:
“Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate.” -Pope John Paul II
lets see what the official word is on Mary. Mary, a simple hand maid. Theres not enough about Mary to fill a fortune cookie. But lets see what the State religion of Rome has done to this poor maid.
“Immaculate Conception” (Mary was conceived sinless, without original sin) and “All-Holy” (Mary lived a sinless life
Knew she needed a savior: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my saviour.” (Luke 1:47)
Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbons said…
“Do you ask me, is Mary willing to assist you? Does she really take an interest in your welfare? Or is she so much absorbed by the fruitation of God as to be indifferent to our miseries? “Can a woman forget her infant so as not to have pity on the fruit of her womb”? (Isaiah 49:15), Even so Mary will not forget us” “Faith of our Fathers, By Cardinal James Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, page 225, 1893 edition.
Let’s see what Isaiah really says:
“Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? YEA, they may forget, Yet I will not forget thee” Isaiah 49:15
A Roman Catholic Cardinal openly twists the Word of God why? Because he knows that if he plays the odds right MOST Catholics won’t open their Bibles to verify what he said. They are taught not to open Bibles and if they do they are taught not to trust them
“As a faithful Catholic, and later as a nun, I practiced Mary worship for many years without realizing it. The prayers and practices were so familiar. They were taught to me by good people, sincere people that I trusted. I prayed rosaries and wore a scapular and engaged in other “devotions” which I honestly thought were good and pleasing to God. Because of my lack of knowledge of the Bible and of Church history, I honestly had no idea that I was actually worshipping Mary.
One place where the Catholic Church is strong is Spain, which is known for the Spanish Inquisition. I always thought that the Inquisition was ancient history. However, the last official Spanish execution for heresy occurred in 1826. A schoolmaster was hanged because he substituted the phrase “Praise be to God” in place of “Ave Maria” (“Hail Mary”) during school prayers”—-Mary Collins
Vast sums of money are spent on some special statues of Mary. For example, the statue of Our Lady of the Pillar in Saragossa, Spain has a crown made of 25 pounds of gold and diamonds, with so many diamonds that you can hardly see the gold. In addition, it has six other crowns of gold, diamonds and emeralds. It has 365 mantles which are embroidered with gold and covered with roses of diamonds and other precious stones. It has 365 necklaces made of pearls and diamonds, and six chains of gold set with diamonds.
I have personally participated in American processions which honored Mary. We walked through the streets following a statue of Mary which was carried on a platform, high up where it was clearly visible. We sang songs in Mary’s honor. We prayed rosaries and other prayers to her. These were small processions. At Fatima, Portugal, crowds of over a million people gather on the anniversary of the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima. The celebration includes a procession of a million people following a statue of Mary and singing her praises—unknown
The bible say that they bear them on their shoulders because they cannot walk talk or see. they are dumb as the people who make them
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chalcedon451 said:
yet again, a mass of lies and misstatements. Spain is no longer a strongly Catholic country, and the statement of a person who lied to God – a nun who broke her vows – is useful only to those who openly use lies. You use lies because of the spirit in you, which wishes to keep you from the Truth.
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Bosco the Great said:
Tell us how its a lie that they bare Mary statue on their shoulders. if you do, I will admit im a liar.
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chalcedon451 said:
As usual, you evade the point. Only if they are worshipping Mary is there a problem, and I think you have, yourself, said we don’t worship Mary. You sound like one of those ISIL chaos with a hammer.
Get saved, Bosco, drive out the father of lies.
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Bosco the Great said:
You didn’t deny that you carry a female statue on your shoulders. Say you don’t do it. You’ve said im lying about everything. You must tell me you don’t bare them on your shoulders.
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chalcedon451 said:
I certainly have no statue on my shoulders. What about the chip on yours?
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Bosco the Great said:
I said you as a generic term. cathols carry graven images on their shoulders. Come on, its your turn to say im lying.
Excuse me, I have to sneeze….AAhhhhhLourdsChoooooooo, uh, must be something in the air.
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chalcedon451 said:
Graven images are things you worship, no Catholics worship Mary. More rubbish from the unsaved Bosco. Chuck it, you have no idea what the Bible means.
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Bosco the Great said:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2tOwX2QyH3sTUrbkodTqT_9-QtuxuazX8q-Be0WWRvXhz4-Oa
Good brother Chalcedon wont touch the subject of cathols baring idols on their shoulders like god says in the OT. I don’t blame him
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chalcedon451 said:
You’ve changed the subject as usual when you lose. Read back to where you say that we bear ‘graven images’. They are things you worship, no one worships Mary. Now you switch to ‘statue’ which was not what you started with. More lies. Get saved. Leave your man-made cult.
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Bosco the Great said:
On May 7 Pope John Paul II dedicated his general audience to “the Virgin Mary” and urged all Christians to accept Mary as their mother. He noted the words spoken by Jesus on the cross to Mary and to John–“Woman, behold thy son!” and “Behold thy mother!” (John 19:26,27), and he claimed that in this statement “IT IS POSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THE AUTHENTIC MEANING OF MARIAN WORSHIP in the ecclesial community … which furthermore is based on the will of Christ” (Vatican Information Service, May 7, 1997).
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chalcedon451 said:
Which does not say she is, as you said, ‘the only way’ to Jesus. Another epic flop for you. You’re losing it, Bosco, the Holy Spirit is driving the lies out of you. Get saved.
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Bosco the Great said:
I use the term graven image and statue interchangeably. Both are made by human hands. graven is to shape with your hands.Graven image= made by hands image.
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chalcedon451 said:
You can use your words how you like, you can’t interpret or understand Scripture because you are unsaved. Keep on showing it if you like, but all you do is twist Scripture to your damnation – like Peter said the unsaved did.
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Armchair Philosopher said:
I just remembered something. I had a friend who said the the Church views women unequally. Yet here we are being charged with making a simple woman a goddess, even more so, that she is greater than the son of god. The Catholic church is very strange.
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newenglandsun said:
Very odd indeed…
Have I come across you before? Were you on my older sister’s blog, “Philosopher’s Dog”?
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Armchair Philosopher said:
Nope. I’ve never heard of that blog.
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newenglandsun said:
Must’ve been a different Armchair Philosopher then.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Mary is great because she is Full of Grace. It is not she herself who is great, but the Holy Spirit that dwells within her soul is great. Her faith was surely great, but of course that was a grace and a gift from God so she never puffed herself up in any way. A truly humble and devout woman. (Just my 2 cents.)
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Bosco the Great said:
Forget worrying about something that is long gone and done with. mary is where she is and we are where we are and theres nothing I can do about it.
You all will wake up to read about the ISIS. They destroyed all the antiquities in the second largest museum in Iraq. Priceless statues from Babylon and Nineva. the winged bull and all the other statues and artifacts from that time. Weve all seen them in books. They are all gone now. Those filth balls smashed them with giant hammers. They are all gone. ISIS has gone mad. Heaven help anyone who gets caught by them. England…they come from England.This is your fault. Where is the IRAQI army? If I was younger id enlist. Theres gonna be lots of collateral damage in this one. But they have to be stopped.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, they smashed statues because the believe people worship images – remind you of anyone?
Islam believes Jesus is a prophet, the son, but not God; it does not believe in the Trinity; it believes in breaking images because it thinks bowing to them equals worship.
Turn from this path, Bosco, come in humility to Christ where he is really to be found, in the Church he founded. Repent!
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Bosco the Great said:
ive never said to smash the statues. That’s vandalism, and not antiquities. Smashing statue doesn’t stop the idolaters.
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chalcedon451 said:
The mind-set is the same. The people who broke statues and smashed churches in the sixteenth century shared your views about Our Lady and statues. Muslims are also iconoclasts – Google it. Great company, Bosco. Chuck it. Repent.
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Bosco the Great said:
This is beyond smashing statues. This is our heritage, mans history. id rather them break statues than behead humans. but they do both. They have zero respect for anything. They wouldn’t last long here in inland empire. We are all armed to the teeth and trigger happy. I don’t own a gun but everyone else does. These ISIS buggers are going down, but not easy. hell is enlarging its doors for them. Then they will understand and know they deserve it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Sorry, Bosco, but those statues were used in worship by the ancient Assyrians, so ISIL, who take your view of these things, are just carrying through the barbarism and idiocy you get when a bunch of ill-educated people tell others that it doesn’t matter what they say, they are statue worshippers.
I wish you luck with your President on this – he will stand with Islam.
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Bosco the Great said:
So what. Id still like to go to a museum and see them
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chalcedon451 said:
You need to discourage others from thinking as you do about statues, then.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ok, ill stop.
Hear ye hear ye, never mind the 2nd commandment….wait, the graven image clause is already taken out of the catholic bible. never mind…carry on…pipip, cherio.
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chalcedon451 said:
Like all unsaved people you fail to understand the Bible. Sad, but there you go. Parrots can repeat words, the unsaved can twist them to their own damnation, but only the saved understand the Bible.
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Bosco the Great said:
I understand your Douhey rheims took out the 2nd commandment. Do you want me to cut and paste it, or will you go on and admit it?
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chalcedon451 said:
You don’t understand what the Bible means. You actually think the original was divided into verses? Poor Bisco – the Bible parrot – you can repeat it all you like, but you don’t understand it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Again, try wiki – more accurate than your usual
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
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Bosco the Great said:
1. I am the LORD your God:
you shall not have
strange Gods before me
2. You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the LORD’S Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
Whooops, the graven image commandment is gone. I don’t blame the CC. it keeps the little ones from asking pesky questions. Like…Mommy, why are they all bowing down befor those statues?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
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chalcedon451 said:
You didn’t read that wiki piece did you? Still, any saved person knows God does not want us to worship images, snd we don’t. Guess the unsaved just can’t understand. I think we know you can’t, but do keep on showing us.
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chalcedon451 said:
You didn’t even read the link, did you? The first part of your own link reads;
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.
Epic fail.
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Bosco the Great said:
I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
http://www.beginningcatholic.com/catholic-ten-commandments.html
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chalcedon451 said:
The Vatican site you linked to has:
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.
Epic fail for the father of lies. Now, read that wiki link and you will understand the different texts. The unsaved should give up misreading Scripture and join Christ’s Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
The Vatican link showd the real commandments and then the catholic ones. I know. But when you open a catholic bible the 2 nd command is gone. You keep saying …we don’t worship the statue, as if that negates the fact that catholics make them and bow befor them. The commandment says not to bow they self befor them. I guess it makes you feel better by saying you don’t worship them. I never said you worship them. personally, id be leary of a religion that makes graven images and instructs its flock to bow befor them. I suggest going to Christ in prayer and ask him his opinion on that
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chalcedon451 said:
No, another fail. It showed the various versions. It, unlike the unsaved Bosco, knows what God meant – bowing = worship – and we don’t worship statues. You can parrot text, but just keep proving the unsaved haven’t a clue about what it means. Get saved, join Jesus’ Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
I know you personally don’t bow befor them, but many cathols do and its encouraged by the costumes. they even have knee pads befor them for your comfort. Ive seen them with my own eyes. its satanic, pure and simple. Im ashamed that moderm americans do that. it sears ones soul against the invisible god. the more one does it, the harder it is for that one to feel a need for salvation thru Christ…after all, they have that graven image to protect them.
Other religions have other things that keep them from Christ.
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chalcedon451 said:
You simply prove, yet again, that the unsaved read and understand not. The Bible is telling us not to worship false Gods – that is the meaning if the words. You, being carnal and unsaved, misread them. Get saved and you will receive the real Holy Spirit, not the fake who deceives you and lures you to your destruction. You have been told Bosco, you have no excuses when God asks why you rejected His Church.
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newenglandsun said:
Remind you of any one Bosco? Of course, that is actually a statue of St. Therese of Lisieux and no Catholic believes Mary is “savior”.
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Bosco the Great said:
What difference is the name tag on the lump of plaster. Only idolaters care what they name the piece of cement.
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newenglandsun said:
As I’ve explained to you numerous times, it’s not just a piece of plaster! It’s a representation of the very saint it represents! Obviously, it mattered to the guy breaking it that it was a statue of Mary and not St. Therese of Lisieux. It’s demonic though to smash either.
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Bosco the Great said:
haha. I notice the cathols are staying far away from this one.
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chalcedon451 said:
Because you’ve been busted, and they are sorry you look such a joke. Get saved, join Christ’s Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
I love that video. Sometimes I watch it 5 or 6 times in a row. I saw it in you tube about 3 yrs ago. It warms my heart
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, since the father of lies is in your heart, that figures. He’ll be laughing when you are in that lake of fire shouting ‘but that new spirit, it told me’ – and when you call Jesus ‘Lord’ he will say ‘I know you not’. Still time to save your soul, Bosco.
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Bosco the Great said:
Maybe I should join the catholic church. Hmmmmm
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chalcedon451 said:
The spirit of the father of lies tries to keep you from it – the demons want your soul – don’t let them have it. Convert to the Church of Jesus and get saved,
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newenglandsun said:
Oh bother, Chalcedon. Now look what you’ve done. Bosco’s now going to pretend to be a Catholic for about a week pretending that Mary is actually God.
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chalcedon451 said:
I think we know his little game, as we do who inspires it.
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Bosco the Great said:
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they
said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. You see, the religious get dunked in water, and all they get is wet. But when one is led to Christ , one is baptized in the Holy Ghost and has power , real changing power. life changing power.
So, if we keep reading, Paul disrupts the Diana idol makers and they become angry at him.
I doubt if the Diana worshipers in here will apologize for trampling on my pearls of wisdom and then turning and rending me. So typical of them
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newenglandsun said:
It’s a good thing no one on here except good brother Bosco the Great is a Diana-worshiper.
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chalcedon451 said:
Of all the confused things you have written here, this is the worst. no one ever denied there was a goddess, what was denied was that the early Christians used Mary to take her place. Your quotation proves my point – no mention of Mary.
What you have to do is what no one has ever managed, show this process happening.
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newenglandsun said:
I do vaguely remember though Bosco talking about how Paul never mentioned this Diana though. He seems suspect.
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Bosco the Great said:
+Paul didn’t dwell on Artemus but as you pointed out in Acts 19 , he was in trouble for turning the hearts of the ppl away from idols.
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newenglandsun said:
And as Chalcedon pointed out, he makes no reference to Mary being an idol. He never says, “Oh, but don’t venerate Jesus’s mother Mary!”
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Bosco the Great said:
VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican spokesman on Friday condemned as “unworthy and petty” the leaks of documents detailing power struggles inside the Holy See and the expenditures of Pope Francis’ new finance czar.
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Bosco the Great said:
Oh yes, the Vatican is to be more transparent.
hey… who let out the secrets that we are corrupt. Guards…seize him.
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chalcedon451 said:
More lies, so sorry to see you so caught up in this work of lying. It speaks against any claim you make that the new spirit you received was from God; God’s spirit does not lead to lies. By your fruit we know whose spirit you have.
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chalcedon451 said:
Now, if you did any actual reading, instead of the work of your father (of lies) you would understand this, but as you don’t, you are an empty vessel, a sounding brass.
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