Tags
Academy Award, Catholic Church, Christian denomination, Christianity, Copts, Eastern Orthodox Church, Jesus, Lent, Russia, Western Christianity
Yesterday, as most will recall, we mutually pledged to give up asperity for Lent on this blog. Today, I found myself biting my tongue (already) to keep my promise to us and to God. Here’s a bit of what Chalcedon said yesterday
In that spirit, as readers of the comments boxes will have seen, we are going to try to give up asperity for Lent – that is the blog’s collective sacrifice for Lent. because we welcome all here, there are times, and themes, which encourage a certain amount of controversy. We are going to see whether we can avoid that for the next six weeks, and, instead, encourage each other to see the image of Christ in each of us. There is not one of us without sin, and we all partake of a tendency to make up for that by pointing out the sins of others. We shall try, harder, to recall our own sinfulness, and to practice that forgiveness which God extends to all who truly repent.:
In reference to the atrocity in Libya and the Popes response i would again refer to Chalcedon in his post Pray for the Copts, adding Libya
There are reports of attacks on Copts in Suez, Fayoum, Minya, Sohag, Assiut & Beni-Suef. This is turning into a catastrophe. I long ago abandoned any hope that the British and American Governments would do anything to help the Copts, but now it seems that a disaster is unfolding. These Christians have borne faithful witness under centuries of persecution, and continue to do so. May the Lord have mercy. Our Lady of Zeitoun have mercy.
We have always allowed open debate here but, we have always recognized that can cause controversy. But we have always welcomed a cross-section of all Christian denominations here as well as those attempting to learn about our Faith.
Personally, i think the Copts have a fair case to claim that we in the west have modified the Faith once received while they haven’t. Your mileage may vary of course but, anybody trying to make the point that this church which has been persecuted as long as any, is not Christian is simply out of line.
Let’s close with a bit more from Chalcedon, in a recent post:
It is far from clear, indeed so much so that I should be intrigued to see the exegesis which says it, that in wanting us to be one, Our Lord was referring to ‘petty animosities among the brethren’. Schism is not a good thing, but the Church has always been able to live with it and to work to bring erring brothers and sisters back into full communion; heresy is another matter, of course. But then it is precisely the nature and depth of the heresy which true ecumenism explores; for us simply to assume we understand what, say, the Copts mean, has turned out to be a bad assumption. Discussion with the non-Chalcedonianshas been the most fruitful area of ecumenism, although I doubt many in the West know it. It is clear enough that they never have been, as we claimed, Monophysites. When we used to hurl anathemata at them on the basis we thought they were, it achieved naught; now we have stopped doing it, they have stopped doing it to us, and we are beginning to explore how we can go forward to heal the old schism. That is worth the hours and years it has taken; in fifty years we have advanced further than we had in 1500 of behaving as QV seems to suggest we ought. For my part, I am with Einstein, in defining stupidity as doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.
That is the meaning of my statement that there is very little point in insisting that we are THE Church. If we are, we know it, there is no need to sound like a braggart, it poisoned relations with the non-Chalcedonians in 451 and ever since, and with the Eastern Orthodox since 1054. If we are, as we should be, secure in who we are, let us behave as Christ would want. Let us listen, as he did, to the Samaritan woman, and not behave to her as the Jews would have.
I think that says it all. Anybody know a good surgeon to sew my tongue back on?
Thank you for this, Neo, the Copts are very close to my heart – Lord have mercy.
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I know and suspect a goodly part of the assembled company do as well. I just felt the need to say something about it. You and Jess have taught me much about the Copts, and knowledge brings responsibility, perhaps.
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Indeed. The contrast with the other post on this topic today speaks for itself.
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Thank you.
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The Roman church like all Christian churches teaches that God may save whomever he pleases, irregardless of what men teach..
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Well said: I hope the Coptic martyrs pray for you, brother. In charity this Lent, speak more kindly of your fellow Christians. Ask yourself who has given more than you for Christ, and you can’t go wrong. Pax et bonum.
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Hello QVO. If God is the judge of hearts, why do you behave as if you know all His judgements? Do you have a special link to HIs Heart we don’t see or understand that we should take your words as if they are God’s? Clue me in. How do you get it? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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So QVO. The truth comes out – the SSPXer’s are still forming your beliefs and directing you spiritually and you hold their authority above all else, even the Church. You’re still in communion with them. They are your masters. You belong to them. Thanks for sharing this. I could’ve guessed as much from the tone of the very first few posts of yours I read here. Thanks for your honesty. I will continue to pray you leave that evil behind and find true conversion of heart and mind. I pray you realize the value in loyalty and make Christ your peace. Please don’t stay this way. It is too ugly. God loves you. You should follow Him. You should love Him and His Church in return. He died for you. If you only understood the full meaning of that you’d turn to Him without any reservations at all and fall at His feet in utter gratitude to Him for the gift of your Redemption. You’d never do anything ever again to displease Him again. You’d have the gift a few of the Saints actually had – the grace of true conversion and penitence over one’s sins. It might do you some good to read some hagiographies, that is the stories of the Saints. I’d recommend that you look into this one in particular: Saint Longinus. He is the soldier who pierced our Lord’s Heart with his spear at Calvary. And follow that one with a look into Saint Faustina who brought us the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Just the two of them could save your miserable soul. You poor man. But you’ve done it to yourself. Your very educated in things theological which makes your ignorance very culpable. You know what your required to do yet you refuse and have your “higher” reasons. I get it. You’ve justified your rebellion so well, it looks noble to you and you’d like others to feel the same way. Oh well. You are too smart for your own good. Please cut yourself a break. You deserve Heaven, but your sending yourself to Hell. Ginnyfree is now stepping down from her little soapbox and getting dinner. God bless and thank you for your patience with her!
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hello QVO.. I’ll keep it simple: Once a person enters Heaven they are as Catholic as it gets. There is no other denomination in Heaven, only Catholics, so once the Church acknowledges they are indeed in Heaven, then they are as catholic as it gets. No one is venerated who isn’t a Saint and since all the Saints in Heaven are members of the One Church Triumphant, there aren’t any Saints in Heaven that aren’t Catholic. No brainer. NEXT! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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As for the reason the Pope said Mass for them, there are two answers, quick and easy, that are obvious to me. 1) he is a Priest and his natural instinct as such is to offer Mass for anyone who has passed away 2) to celebrate their victory over death. There are other reasons, but since you lack the mind of Christ, they are quite a reach for you. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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In 1987 at the Hilfield Friary of the Anglican Society of St Francis in Dorset, we received a new member of our community direct from Egypt. He was brought to safety in England, and our friary became his place of refuge. Lucky for him, the Coptic Pope had the ear of the Anglican bishop responsible for Egypt, and so they did a deal to get him out and into safety.
What had he done? This man had converted to Christ from the demonic sect of Islam and had joined a Coptic desert monastery as a postulant monk. He was dragged away by his Muslim family and imprisoned, threatened with death, and saved from that fate by Christian friends who brought his plight to the notice of the Anglican Church. When he came to us after such a horrific experience, all he spoke of was the love of Christ. He had little to say against Islam. He had a greater priority: evangelisation was his only work.
I remember this man as a Christian and an inspiration. He taught us much about desert monasticism.
If anyone dismisses those who die as martyrs because they are Christian, and simply because they are a different kind of Christian, they can answer for that at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I’m not going to try and persuade them myself. But I would remind them that Christian charity is a good idea during Lent.
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Well said, my friend.
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Let’s not get carried away on some fancy flight of hyperbole: in fact they died because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they died at the hands of demons. They died because they were Christians, in the view of their demonic killers.
If that happened to you, would it be a spiritually uplifting thought – as the knife was put to your throat – that some self-righteous Christian of another denomination, in a safer part of the world than you, would be denying your sacrifice? I think not. I am not an “ecumenist” and I am a traditional Catholic. I do not like your legalism and I do not think it is charitable to speak thus in the face of true Christian sacrifice.
Enough of your nonsense. Have charity and desist. This is the time of Lent and recollection, not pride and argument for its own sake. Desist. Repent.
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Well said. Anen!
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and Amen!
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A big splurge of emotion? That’s how you see the reaction of Christians appalled at the murder of fellow Christians? Shame.
You are full of fine words about ecclesial legalities, my brother, but you miss something essential here with all your worthy defence of Catholicism. (And who among us Catholics would deny you your rightful pride in the one true Church?) But what you miss, and you need to wake up to this fact, is the death of the Coptic martyrs was a sharing in the sacrifice of Christ, who died for you.
It’s quite simple. The demons who slaughtered those poor men were slaughtering Christians. Not Copts. Not Lutherans. Not Syrian Orthodox. But Christians. In the mind of the Islamic murderers, they were slaughtering all Christians, including YOU. And would Christ DENY these men were martyrs?
Please! You are illogical, obsessively negative towards an ancient Church and its martyrs, and becoming tiresome. That is my last word on your mean-minded mean-spirited attack. It has nothing of Christ or the Catholic Church in it, but speaks of pride and philistinism.
I did not join the Catholic Church to despise the Christian martyrs.
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Nor did I join the Lutheran church to despise them, and surprisingly (not) our list is very similar.
AMEN!
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Most of us here belong to the “One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Christian Church”, including Lutherans and Anglicans, granted we tend to be less prideful than some recent Roman converts however. This topic is. i think, exhausted.
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Ah, yes. I see it all a bit more clearly now. You are one of THOSE sort of ex-Anglican recent converts. Sorry, I’ve been wasting my time. I thought I was arguing with someone much more firmly rooted in Catholic tradition.
“For mine eyes have seen Thy salvation”. Your quote. And your explanation: “This is why I write: out of gratitude for such great salvation.”
Do please write more out of gratitude than out of loathing for Christians who have given their lives for you. You currently bring nothing to the Church you have joined except an exclusive pride in your own uniqueness. Desist. Pray. Repent.
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Rah Rah! Go team! Keep ti up good Frere Rabbit! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Well said.
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Very well said Frere Rabbit. Hope QVO listens. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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No they didn’t QVO. I watched the video and saw their blood deliberately spilled into the sea till it turned red! They were Martyred because they are Christians. They died because they refused to renounce Christ. They died with the Name of Jesus on their lips!!!
If they were slain as you say because the were defending their right to remain outside the Church say in a protest march, they set themselves on fire or something or were gunned down by police as the stormed the Catholic Coptic Church in their hometown, then yes, they would’ve been dying to defend a heresy and you’re right then, they wouldn’t gain Heaven at all. But they weren’t dying fighting the true Church. The sworn enemies of the true Church took their lives because they are Christian. You’ve got it all backwards. Looks like the Muslims know better than you do on this one!
I pray the Blood of the Martyrs brings you to true conversion soon. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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My instinctive reaction was Kyrie Elesison, Christi Eleison, Kyrie Eleison.
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Yes, indeed.
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As I cannot comprehend the other reaction, of what I cannot understand, I do not speak. The God who hung on a Cross for me hung on that Cross for those who confess their his holy name in the valley of the shadow.
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That is my understanding as it is of my, and your church. This nonsense has hurt our faith for 1500 years, Enough is enough.
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I have never heard Satan profess love for our Lord Jesus Christ nor repent of his sins nor pray for a transformation of heart by the Holy Spirit. All fervent Christian believers that I know, Catholic and otherwise, do so.
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It’s not about us, you absurd fool.. it’s about God, and you’d best start fearing him.
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Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:36-40Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
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Your point may be valid but you squander your powers of persuasion in my view by relentlessly asserting “all heretics and schismatics will go to Hell”. I know you are not alone in that judgment but it is not a judgment I feel any mortal can make.
My understanding of the Mercy of God is more nuanced than yours apparently. God does not speak to us in black and white images. He didn’t hand us a set of dead rules. He gave us instead a vibrant and living Word. It is on this Living Word that the Church and Sacraments take root. My Bible has 1394 pages. It is subtle, vibrant, beautiful, awe-filled and brutally truthful in ways that cannot be fully grasped by the mind of man.
It is my experience and belief that God speaks to us in each and every word contained therein. It is also my experience and belief that each time I lift the Word of God to my mind’s eye, a new revelation of God is revealed, yes, even in passages that I have re-read and re-heard countless times. We are called to an authentic encounter with the living God. He calls us each by name and teaches us what we need to hear in any given moment. Jesus said to the woman at the well, “Go and sin no more.” He didn’t threaten her with damnation. He “threatened her” (if I can put it that way) with eternal Love if only she would follow and obey his commands to love others as himself. He didn’t hand her a membership card to fill out.
God’s ways are not our ways, thanks be to God! “O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways!” Romans 11:33.
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“Today I read about the execution of those twenty-one or twenty-two Coptic Christians. Their only words were: “Jesus, help me!” They were killed simply for the fact that they were Christians. You, my brother, in your words referred to what is happening in the land of Jesus. The blood of our Christian brothers and sisters is a testimony which cries out to be heard. It makes no difference whether they be Catholics, Orthodox, Copts or Protestants. They are Christians! Their blood is one and the same. Their blood confesses Christ. As we recall these brothers and sisters who died only because they confessed Christ, I ask that we encourage each another to go forward with this ecumenism which is giving us strength, the ecumenism of blood. The martyrs belong to all Christians.”
Pope Francis
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Indeed, and this is a welcome antidote to the last.
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You call the pope “Francis the Destroyer” and yet you renounce sedevantantism. You muddy the waters with your confusions about “Buddhist martyrs” (another argument above this one). You continue digging yourself in, denying, writhing, and so openly trying to dioscover for yourself what is the institution you have joined. Welcome to the club. We all struggle with it. Settle down and get to understand Jesus is in control and we do not dictate the membership of the club. Nor the club of Christian martyrs. Have a good Lent, and that is all the attention I care to spare you! Brother, calm down.
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Brother, He’s not my Pope, so I am not required to believe him. I would suggest we vote on who has the right perspective the Pope or you, but we would have to wait until after Lent.
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Ya know what QVO? I think the psychology behind your vehement insistence that these Martyrs of God be rejected is because you are jealous that they have Heaven while you, a real heretic schismatic will not see Heaven unless, of course, you repent of your madness. Your jealous. Your mind knows this in it’s back pages and it shows in the way you’ve reacted way too strongly to the victory over death that is Martyrdom. You “need” a pure sacrifice, say a noble Jesuit on the English Mission who undoubtedly gained Heaven after being hung drawn and quartered, etc. The Blood of these Coptic Martyrs isn’t good enough for you. God help you. You’re out of your gourd with envy. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Well so much for casting aside asperity during Lent.
I’m a simple man. Any Christian who gives His life confessing the Bride Groom, Jesus Christ, is participating in the blood of Christ just as any Christian who does likewise for the sake of the Bride, the Church. There is no love greater than to give one’s life for another and love covers a multitude of sins. They are cleansed by their Baptism of blood of all sins. Anything beyond this, is getting into technical situations that is akin to the old idea in war; that God is on our side. It is motivating for the troops but hardly a way to judge the heart of men who die by practicing Christian virtue to the best of their ability.
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When we are in a fighting war with a heretic sect then your arguments are sound. It isn’t the situation nor are the intentiond of the Coptic martyrs different from our own should we be asked to shed our blood for the spouse of our souls. According to a story on Rorate, they died with the name of Jesus on their lips. And Rorate also, calls them Christian martyrs. Best do a bit more praying on this my good friend.
When are you getting your hernia operation? Is it a problem picking up the new baby? Are restricted to not lifting any substantial weight? Hope all is well with your family.
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If, as it seems, our friend has health problems, I pray for him. He should spend less energy worrying himself about making sure the right sort of martyrs are dying for the faith, and reduce his stress levels. Jesus is in control. Do not doubt it, and keep calm. 🙂
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Amen, my friend.
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A good article and no one is arguing the theological point. The world (aside from theology) sees them dying, only because they profess to be Christian and deny the Islamic faith. Whether that is true or not is not up to us but to God Who sees all things. I would only hope that, like most of our separated brothers and sisters, they are saved by their invincible ignorance due to their ethnic upbringing. Besides that, if they were willing to die for Christ, that is loud statement. We pray that God’s Will is that they are home with Him in heaven. For, until I am in such a situation where it requires my martyrdom, I will not know how, in fact, I might react or what I might do. We pray for the fortitude and the strength (the faith, hope and charity) that will bring us a merciful judgment.
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Well, I think because of the international outrage he had to speak of them in the most glowing (though, theologically incorrect terms. Let’s hope that his words will do more to contrast Christianity with Islam and the threat we Christians are under. At this point, he sounds more hawkish than the US President who won’t even mention Islam except to say how it is the religion of peace. What baloney.
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Forgive me, I have been searching for where the Pope specifically refers to the beheaded Copts as “Catholic” martyrs. I see the Pope refer to them as “Christian” martyrs. Can you clarify for me why you say he calls them Catholic martyrs, a link perhaps?
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I still do not understand and I don’t mean at all to be difficult. The fact that the Pope refers to these men as “martyrs” means de facto, as it were, that he is calling them “Catholic”? Because he is the Pope and talking about men who were massacred for their faith, this somehow implies that he is confusing the faithful about the definition of Catholic martyrdom as professed by the Church? I didn’t hear it that way and I’m sorry but I am not in the least confused by the Pope’s meaning.
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Gentlemen: They died as Christian martyrs, the word has no Roman copywrite. Thee have been others in africa many others in the last 2000 years, and we are after all speaking of the church that St. Mark founded. You make rash claims to know God’s mind, it is entirely possible that we all are the heretics and the Copts are the only true church.
The Pope said what the Pope said, if he had meant to say Catholic martyrs he would presumably have said so.
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No, it is not. if the Pope said they died as Catholic martyrs, he is plainly wrong. if you added the word catholic to his statement, in your own mind and words, you simply slander him, which means lie about his statement. Martyr is not a word that belongs to the Roman church. The Texicans who died at the Alamo can be correctly described as martyrs to Texas independance. These people died because of their faith, ipso facto: they are martyrs to that faith, which is Christian.
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No it is not. Of the Apostles’s, 10 of which I seem to recall were martyred only a couple could be considered Catholic
So saith Pope QVO the first and hopefully the last.
No the Pope when he speaks without qualification, he speaks as he believes, usually that will be in line with the teachings of his church, but not necessarily, he, personally, may disagree, as may any man, except for certain designated beliefs. This was not said ex cathedra (if I remember the term correctly. This post is here because I and others were appalled that you had the temerity to publish you calumny but that wasn’t enough, you had to come over and spread some more here, like the bigot you are.
You did notice i presume that nearly everyone who disagreed with you here is a traditional Catholic, if I were you I would check my premise.
Now it is time to drop it, you bigotry bores me.
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So now you blame others for the words which you claimed were yours/ Simply pitiful. Perhaps when you grow into being a real Catholic you’ll be able to think for yourself. Meantime you have ruined your credibility and damaged your church.
Not in the sense you mean it, if they were then the Copts are Catholics and you are not, you (we actually) are the ones who forced Chalcedon through without even asking them.
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imbellis quia imbecillis
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I imagine that most Catholics who listened to what the Pope had to say about the Coptic martyrs were not in the least confused that he was somehow turning them into Catholics either by word or deed.
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Concur. It’s a symptom, I understand mostly of recently converted Anglicans.
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Just so you’ll know their names QVO – https://northernhermit.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/remember/
God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Hello QVO. I cannot answer your question conclusively because I don’t have a complete catalogue of all the Saints in Heaven or a complete listing of all those who have ever been listed in the calendar of the liturgy. But what I can say is if there have been Saints who have been Martyred who weren’t formally received into the Church, mainly those who saw death in the early Church when Baptism was often deferred and also those who were in mission territories preparing to be received into the Church but got Martyred before this happened, they are generally listed as a group of Martyrs among others, usually by the designation ” & companions” meaning all those others who suffered along side of the actual Missionaries. Not only that but many of the early Native American Martyrs weren’t even known! These were Baptized by the hundreds by the first Jesuits here and in Canada, but when the mission itself was burned to the ground, so were all the records so we will never know who there were until we get to Heaven. I’m very sure that there are many, many Saints in Heaven who if their lives and piety were scrutinized by the members of the Society of St. Pius X, they’d fail to make muster.
One thing is certain, every single Saint in Heaven is a member of the Church, and since there is only ONE CHURCH and it is the Catholic Church, they are all members of the Catholic Church once they get to Heaven. Those who die for Christ’s name bearing witness to Him are Martyrs and are full members of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. And not all of the Saints in Heaven are known by the Church on earth. It is not possible to know the entire number nor venerate them exactly. God alone knows their number and there are more of them then we know and this the Church knows and has spoken on numerous times and in numerous ways. So, if a person is Martyred for the Holy Name of Jesus and the Church knows about it and decides to put them in the calendar and celebrated their feast, their heroic witness, that of dying for Christ is what is venerated, not their entire lives. That makes it entirely possible for persons who weren’t quite in Communion with the Church formally to be not only in Heaven, but included in the Church calendar. You aren’t required to pray to them or even accept them in particular. What you are expected to do is give an assent of the will to the facts known by the Church and trust it’s judgement in these matters. These last two are the very things you seem to have the most difficulty with.
And there ya go. Ginny Free’s answer. Like it or not.
QVO, the real question is where are you going when you end your days here, Heaven, Hell or Purgatory? It really is up to you and if you’re headed in the wrong direction, God allows U-Turns. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I did visit your link to the SSPXer’s site. They really have some nerve judging the freshly spilt blood of Christian Martyrs. That’ s nuts. But if the Pope speaks, they’re compelled by the nature of their beast to respond each and every time to keep their adherents happy. Their own “official” version of things is a compulsion born of their schism. You’re simply repeating what your told to believe by them. I get it. I really do. I feel sorry for you, but I get it.
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“It is still true that the Catholic Church regards the Copts as NOT IN COMMUNION. The reason for this is because they are not Catholics, and they do not WANT to be Catholics. Furthermore, they regard Catholics as heretics.”
1. As Ginny has explained to you, there are Coptic Catholics and Coptic Orthodox. Coptic Orthodox are not in full communion with the Pope of Rome and most do not want to be in union.
2. The Coptic Orthodox regard Catholics as heretics for adding too much to the faith. However, the Catholic Church has stated recently that the Coptic Orthodox have made great strides toward orthodoxy (from past divisions regarding monophysitism) and has not formally condemned them.
Get your facts straight, QVO.
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we shall not call any one destroyers until post-Lent.
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No one is euphemising Satan here. As a matter of fact, Satan is the Devil and Devil comes from a Greek word (diabolos) meaning division. If there is any one euphemising Satan here, it is you.
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Slander does divide.
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God loves you.
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Hello again QVO. No your facts are skewed still. The Copts as a whole are considered Christian by the Church and this is an official definition. The Church studies all denominations and knows well the differences between them. If there is a valid Baptism Rite contained within the particular denomination, then they are Christian. The particulars of what they do and don’t do as Christians determines where on the continuum they lie in relation to full or partial Communion with the Universal Church. Then there are those who claim to be Christian who are actually considered to be sects. These aren’t considered Christian at all. You’ve placed the Copts there, but that is wrong. They aren’t a sect as you suppose. The Church considers them Christian, all of them, both Catholic and Orthodox. So there ya go QVO. Skewed facts set straight courtesy of the evil wicked yankadoodidley doo gal. God bless Ginnyfree.
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Yikes! I can see I’ve really made you mad QVO. Oh dear! Oh my! God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Quiav the Great is the only real catholic in here. the rest of these prot hugging Koran kissing feel good wishy wasy namby pamby jew loving catholics in name only are just spinning their everyone goes to heaven wheels
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Hello QVO. Once again your facts are skewed. There are Catholic Copts and Orthodox Copts, but all Copts are Christian, whether separated from Rome or united to her in Communion. Also Baptism of Blood is as St. Thomas Aquinas states the highest form of a Baptism and whose end is always Heaven. Mat 10:39 “whoever loses his life for my sake (meaning as a Christian) will find it.”; John 15:13 “no one has greater love than this than to lay one’s life down for one’s friends.” You are denying the blood of the Martyrs. Why do you cling to your errors? What good does it do to constantly judge everyone else, including those whose very lips had the name of Jesus upon them as they were slain by the enemies of the Cross? God bless your poor soul. Ginnyfree.
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Something to ponder upon:
Chapter XVI
Of Bearing with the Faults of Others
“Those things which a man cannot amend in himself or in others, he ought patiently to bear, until God shall otherwise ordain. Bethink thee that perhaps it is better for thy trial and patience, without which our merits are but little worth. Nevertheless thou oughtest, when thou findeth such impediments, to beseech God that He would vouchsafe to sustain thee, that thou be able to bear them with a good will.
2. If one who is once or twice admonished refuse to hearken, strive not with him, but commit all to God, that His will may be done and His honour be shown in His servants, for He knoweth well how to convert the evil unto good. Endeavour to be patient in bearing with other men’s faults and infirmities whatsoever they be, for thou thyself also hast many things which have need to be borne with by others. If thou canst not make thine own self what thou desireth, how shalt thou be able to fashion another to thine own liking. We are ready to see others made perfect, and yet we do not amend our own shortcomings.
3. We will that others be straitly corrected, but we will not be corrected ourselves. The freedom of others displeaseth us, but we are dissatisfied that our own wishes shall be denied us. We desire rules to be made restraining others, but by no means will we suffer ourselves to be restrained. Thus therefore doth it plainly appear how seldom we weigh our neighbour in the same balance with ourselves. If all men were perfect, what then should we have to suffer from others for God?
4. But now hath God thus ordained, that we may learn to bear one another’s burdens, because none is without defect, none without a burden, none sufficient of himself, none wise enough of himself; but it behoveth us to bear with one another, to comfort one another, to help, instruct, admonish one another. How much strength each man hath is best proved by occasions of adversity: for such occasions do not make a man frail, but show of what temper he is.”
Excerpt From: à Kempis Thomas. “The Imitation of Christ.”
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Thank you SF. Very fine words and very fitting. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Done in the spirit of Lent, Ginny.
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Hello QVO. I was thinking that since you consider yourself a kind of watchdog of the faith and feel so strongly that it is your calling to keep careful eye on the doings and comings and goings of those who shepherd God’s people, perhaps a more productive avenue for this special vision of yourself you see, is to seek out those who also do so effectively within the bounds of the Church. I give you the Cardinal Newman Society: http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/HomePage.aspx They do address issues that necessitate actions and they are successful at it. They work to better the Church in ways that actually do better the Church rather than simply criticize. You might find them to your liking. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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