Surveying the discussions over the Second Vatican Council, one thing which strikes me is the attribution of motive to those who disagree with one’s own point of view. It is never helpful to call other Christians semi-pelagians, or pharisees, or to insult those who pray the Rosary for you – and that, of course, is just the Pope being frank. Equally unhelpful is the way in which the word ‘modernist’ is bandied about, and ‘liberal’ is one of those terms of art so elastic as to be capable of being filled with almost any meaning, from believing that there is no truth at all, through to believing that there should be a little bit of a relaxation from the strict letter of the law. It all, of course, speaks to the heat the topic generates, but it shows how little light comes therefrom. This is a shame, as the Holy Spirit does His best to lead us into greater truth, hindered, very often, by our own conviction we have nothing to learn because we know it all.
It may, of course, be the case that other Catholics are agents of Satan bent on smoking out the Church, but it may be our own temper which generates much of the smoke. Perhaps traditionalists are all narrow-minded Pharisees and liberals all quasi-pagan enemies of Christ – or perhaps we all need to take deep breaths and pray a bit more. Ecumenism might be usefully started at home. A houses divided will find it difficult to convince anyone else that what it has to say should be listened to. It is clear to most people that the various sex abuse scandals and the attempts to cover them up have done much more damage to the reputation of the Church than anything Vatican II could do. Some attempt to link the scandals to it, with liberals saying it shows the need for more reform, and traditionalists that it went too far. So it gets ‘weaponised’, instead of being a common ground for shame and repentance and renewal.
To what extent are we, in all of this guided by the spirit of polemic and pride rather than the Holy Spirit? I wonder what would happen if the Pope gave a lead in how we should talk to and about each other? A lead, that is, different from the one he is currently giving.
Bosco the Great said:
LDS adults are asked to wear a specific set of underwear, called temple garments, to remind them about having a deeply personal relationship with God. And since they’re shaped like a loose t-shirt and shorts, the underwear also makes sure that Mormons dress modestly.
But the garments aren’t always comfortable, especially for women. According to one Mormon blog, the garments bunch up, show through clothing, and aren’t always snug, which leads to embarrassing problems during menstruation. Plus, Mormons are discouraged from making any alterations.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/mormon-temple-garments-underwear_n_6647856.html
Religions
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Servus Fidelis said:
Perhaps the Holy Spirit is trying but the agents with agendas refuse to submit. I think this open letter (http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/02/rorate-exclusive-open-letter-by.html) says some important things that need being looked at. Among them, the power of the men behind the scenes: the nuncios who bind the bishops to silence about matters which the bishops feel are from the Holy Father when they are not; also the manner of election of bishops within the Church seems to have become corrupt. How does the Holy Spirit break through these barriers to reveal His guidance is a question that ought to bring fear to the heart of those who are not interested in the Holy but in the pushing of their own worldly agendas. But then, such men, have seemingly lost faith and their fear of the Lord. How it will set aright is beyond our ability to know but it won’t be immediate nor will it be without casualties and pain. Prayer is needed by all men and women of Good Will for Holy Mother Church. I know no other means to overcome the crisis of faith that we now face.
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Servus Fidelis said:
BTW I must say that I do not share your abhorrence of the term Modernist (liberal, perhaps I agree, because it has been hijacked by the political meanings of the day) because within the Church it has had a long usage and our Pope did define the term as a synthesis of all heresies: which means to me the most effective elements of many heresies shrouded in new theologies that have no real name that might be applied. It is certainly more useful than if we to try to get specific and name out at in every sentence the bit that came for this heresy or that. It is a broad word that is useful in simply stating that the ideas and thoughts have individual been denounced within the Church and have been resurrected and reworked into formulas that might be more appealing the masses. It is a ‘smoke and mirrors’ philosophy or theology that does not overtly claim to be any specific heresy; as it is not specific because it is an amalgam of the best and most successful methods for making fundamental changes in the Church which seems to appeal to the mind and our sense of fairness. Otherwise, without such a word our conversations would devolve into more tedium and more nuances that we would spend our time discussing rather than getting to the actual point of the matter being discussed. Just a personal opinion.
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Steve Brown said:
Servus, thanks for the 2 links you posted today. The words of great bishops are who we should be listening. Maybe we should post our thoughts on who are those great bishops. I started making a list some time ago. Sample–Portland, Morlino–Madison, Sheridan–Colorado Springs, Vasa–Santa Rosa, Chaput–Philadelphia, Cordileone–San Francisco, Loverde–Arlington, Finn–Kansas City-St. Joseph, Vigneron–Detroit, Conley–Lincoln, Paprocki–Springfield, Barber–Oakland. I’m sure you can add to this list.
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Servus Fidelis said:
That’s a pretty good list Stevie. I’m sure there are others but I have largely given up tracking the good the bad and the ugly: only when it really pops out at me. You should have asked this question about 20 years ago when I was more of a zealot for the cause of cleaning out the stables. The battles that ensued caused my wife’s nervous breakdown and plunged her into a deep depression. I have revisited those waters since: just as a bystander, cheerleading and booing section.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Additionally, we need to be aware of the mortal sin of reviling: http://www.integratedcatholiclife.org/2015/02/trasancos-reviling/
I think we all need to head to the confessionals on this one.
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Bosco the Great said:
VATICAN CITY, Feb 7 (Reuters) – A commission advising Pope Francis on how to root out sexual abuse of children by clergy in the Catholic Church is studying sanctions for bishops suspected of cover-ups or of failing to prevent abuse, members said on Saturday.
“There have to be consequences,” Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston, the head of the commission, told a news conference.
Victims groups have been urging the Vatican for years to make bishops more accountable for abuse in their dioceses even if they were not directly responsible for it.
O’Malley said the commission, holding its first full meeting since it was established last year, was drafting recommendations for the pope on how to make bishops more accountable, including possible sanctions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/07/vatican-abuse-bishops_n_6636678.html?cps=gravity_2677_-805876465333568462
The commission goes on to state that one sanction under consideration is standing on the naughty step for no less than ten minutes.
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bruvvereccles said:
Bosco, dear, what do you make of this website?
http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/
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Bosco the Great said:
Its a joke site, like you…..youre a joke, and a bad one at that. Like your joke of a site.
Come to my real hard hitting site
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
Come in and find rest for your soul.
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bruvvereccles said:
I guess you’re desperate for readers, dear bruvver. The last one left 2 years ago.
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Bosco the Great said:
People visit my lofty site. Don’t worry about it. Mostly idolatrous cathols. They are to shocked to leave a comment.
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chalcedon451 said:
He was taken up in the rupture!
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Steve Brown said:
I knew there was a good reason Bosco was over here so often.
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newenglandsun said:
That cherrybombcoutour site I think was nominated for an award in comedy recently. Most hilarious blog sites? Did it win?
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Bosco the Great said:
Vatican City (AP) Breaking news; In response to the Vatican council on child abuse, Father Groeschel, a long standing priest, TV show spokesman for the catholic church, has come out against punishing the priest. Father Groeschel states that it was the children seduced the poor unsuspecting priest and that the children should be made to stand on the naughty step, not the innocent priest. .
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bruvvereccles said:
You’ve done that “joke” already, Bosco. Have you forgotten your amnesia tablets again?
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Bosco the Great said:
Whats it too you? Don’t you have something better to do, like play kick the can on the freeway?
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newenglandsun said:
So “born again” Christians wish death or wish dangerous situations on other people? Bosco, I think (know) you’re possessed.
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newenglandsun said:
Hey look! A dude from Cavalry Chapel punched a kid “for Jesus”!
http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/christian-pastors-dont-punch-kids-for-jesus/
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Bosco the Great said:
Doesn’t look like hes in a Calvary Chapel. I don’t trust anybody or all calvarys. All I know is that wouldn’t fly at the one I go to. That site is a joke site and it doesn’t say what church that is. I don’t care either. The punk kid probably deserved it.
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Bosco the Great said:
How much money did the Vatican receive each year from Hitler in the guise of the so-called “Kirchensteuer,” or church tax, which he levied on its behalf in the Reich? (Posner finds that this tax came to $1.7 billion — in today’s money — in 1943 alone.) How far did that influence Pope Pius XII’s infamous policy of silence about the rising atrocities against Jews and others throughout occupied Europe — atrocities of which the Vatican received the first direct, eyewitness evidence as early as 1941
How much gold looted by Nazis and fascists from occupied Europe made its way into the vaults of the Vatican Bank at the end of the war? What happened to that gold afterward?
The Vatican had a gigantic network of priests in every town across Poland, ground zero for the death squads and the Holocaust. How much was reported back and when?
The Vatican has steadfastly refused to answer those questions
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pope-francis-must-answer-questions-about-churchs-financial-dealings-with-hitler-2015-02-10?siteid=yhoof2
The catholic church has always hated the Jews. They were glad to see the Jews go to the camps. The Vatican gained billions of dollars and gold from the holocaust. Living deliciously is the first priority of the Holy See. Second on the laundry list is covering up the crimes that made them rich. The faithful cathols believe anything the Vatican says, or doesn’t say. Its those pesky prots that keep bringing up the crimes of the CC
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NEO said:
Cheap lies and anti-catholic propaganda, Bosco. If that’s the best you can do, simply sit down and shut up.
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Bosco the Great said:
If this current bleeding heart Holy Father wants to be “more” transparent, he would open up the financial books.
Cheap lies? Where have you been? In confinement somewhere?
Which one is the lie, pray tell. That the Holy See lives in splendor or that the Vatican bank is stuffed with looted Nazi gold? Both of which are well know old facts. Even good brother Bergoglio spoke up about them living deliciously. Why don’t you call him a liar?
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NEO said:
it’s fairly well off church, that’s because people appreciate a church that does God’s work instead of lying abut others. Nobody takes people money with a gun for the church, like the government does.
Why should he, It’s none of my business or yours. Much more of the loot in the Swiss banks, anyway.
The Vatican saved a lot more Jews that America did by the way.
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Bosco the Great said:
Once the unholy See saw Hitler was busted, they went about to hide a few Jews so they could claim they were against what their benefactor and good friend good brother Hitler was doing. It was just for show. Look what the Holy Father did around 1850. He stuck all of Romes Jews into a ghetto. This is how the CC really feels about the Jews. And the Jews know it. The CC is trying to make people forget about that. Heck, the CC just recently allowed Jews to go to heaven.
Forrrrr hes a jolly good fellow
For hes a(come on, sing along with Bosco) jolly good fellow
For hes a jolly good fellow(come on, I cant hear you)
That nobody can deny
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chalcedon451 said:
Poor Bosco. There would be no point telling you that 1850 was not the same as 1940, or that Pius XII helped the Jews and that Israel recognises that, because your mind is closed.
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chalcedon451 said:
no, neither of them are true. The Pope does not live in great splendour or cost a great deal. Do a comparison with the cost of Obama. As for Nazi gold, there is no evidence for that either.
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Bosco the Great said:
If you noticed, I didn’t say that this current pope lives in splendor. What you didn’t deny was that the top clergy lives in splendor, like the retired number 2 man at the Vatican that is building himself a palacial home on the grounds. I don’t have a real prob with that. the Vatican has more than enough money and gold for everyone to live in splendor. Why not use it. I would.But don’t compare them to jesus. He had nowhere to lay his head. These are not godly people, as much as they want everyone to believe.
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chalcedon451 said:
They do use it Bosco – just look at the work the Church does in the Third World.
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Bosco the Great said:
I applaud their charitable work. Most church orgs have some charities. Even the tiny calvary here down the street supports a missionary in Africa. Well and good. I bet the Church of Satan has a charity. Still, one needs to be born again to enter heaven. That’s the only thing there is. The rest is just things to do while you are passing thru this world of woe.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, your lot think supporting a missionary is good, and they are right. We support hundreds. When your lot get to that level, let us know – until then, thank God for His Church and its witness.
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chalcedon451 said:
Bosco, there appears to be no end of the depth of your ignorance. Since te creation of the German State the State has levied a tax to support the Church, Hitler just continued it, as every German ruler before him and after him did and has done.
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Bosco the Great said:
I just reported what the article said. I hope Germany isn’t paying that tax anymore. The CC is bloated with money and gold. And it shall eat their flesh as it were fire as the clergy die and go to their reward.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes it is. Your ignorance of the things you choose to comment on is astounding.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ill tell you what is astounding my friend, is that some people consider this church to be founded by Christ and led by the Holy Spirit.
If anyone wants the truth, one can pray to Christ for the answers. Don’t listen to Bosco. Go to the source of truth.
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chalcedon451 said:
I did, He confirmed it is His Church.
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Bosco the Great said:
If you say so. How come he didn’t lead me into the CC?Or any of the others I know?
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chalcedon451 said:
Because you are not open to the Spirit, I guess. I didn’t want to join the Church, I rejected it as you do, but until I came here, my spirit was restless. Yours is, it is why you stay here.
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Bosco the Great said:
Interesting.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Do me a favor Bosco. Read this essay by Fulton Sheen – it would do you a lot of good if you actually thought about it for awhile after reading it: https://servusfidelis.wordpress.com/?s=Scandals+sheen&submit=
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Bosco the Great said:
A moment before Peter was called the Rock; now he is called Satan! In so many words Our Lord was telling him: “As a Rock upon which I build My Church, whenever you speak with the assistance of Heaven, you shall be preserved from error; but as Simon, son of Jonah, as a man, you are so frail, so carnal, so apt to be sinful, that you can become even like unto Satan
Sheen could sell ice to eskimos. His double talk is legendary.
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chalcedon451 said:
Which is the answer to the question you pose as to how the members of the Church can fall into sin, but how we can be sure when it speaks infallibly on faith it is a sure guide.
Well done, you’re beginning to get there, Bosco.
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Servus Fidelis said:
You would do well to meditate on his words and to pray on them. Sheen just told you what we have been trying to tell you for years now but in a most gentle manner and yet you persist to sling mud; this time at the man. You are a shameful example of a Christian yourself, as Sheen was trying to point out to all of us. It is for us sinful people that the Church was established. You might try to keep that in mind.
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Bosco the Great said:
I know that’s what you’ve been saying. You say it so much. Its just that im confident that the HS doesn’t speak thru the CC. Everything has been said that needs saying in the scriptures. There is nothing new to add.
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chalcedon451 said:
Clearly there was Bosco, as nowhere in Scripture are we told what it consists of. We know that because the authority of the early Church told us. No use you doing the usual stuff and saying you have it – you and we all have it, but not because the HS told you or me, the HS told the Church.
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bruvvereccles said:
Bosco, dear, “Mind closed until further notice” shouldn’t be interpreted as an instruction.
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Bosco the Great said:
Look whos talking.
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Bosco the Great said:
say,what happened to my comment?
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Steve Brown said:
bruvvereccles, please visit more often, we need help with Bosco.
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bruvvereccles said:
Thanks, Steve. I know that brother Bosco is very grateful when I correct his errors (I’ve been doing it on various websites for years).
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ginnyfree said:
Oh my Gosh! YOu mean to tell me I might bump in to Bozo, ooooops. I mean Bosco the Great elsewhere? Lordy, Lordy, Lordy! Can you provide the warnings, errr, I mean the links soz I can avoid, errrr, I mean visit them and brighten his days? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Constantine, was also the first significantly to limit the rights of Jews as citizens of the Roman empire. He imposed heavy penalties on anyone who converted to Judaism, and also on any Jewish community that received converts. In the next generation any Christian converting to Judaism would have all of his property confiscated
An important turning point came in AD 388. In that year a synagogue at Rome was burnt by Christians and the authorities required that restitution be paid. This was clearly fair, and in keeping with custom. But in the same year another synagogue, at Callinicum on the Euphrates, was razed by Christians at the instigation of the local bishop. Again the Emperor required the bishop to make restitution. The leading Churchman of the day, Ambrose, now a saint and Doctor of the Church, interceded and made it clear to the emperor that it would be sinful to help the Jews in this way . The emperor acceded to the will of the Church, and withdrew his demand for justice.
The Christian Emperor Theodosius II promulgated a new code of law in AD 438 which excluded Jews from all political and military functions. They were again forbidden to mary Christians, or to own Christian slaves, to hold public office or to build synaguogues. In the same year the Empress Eudoxia tried to relax the regulations which barred the Jews from Jerusalem except for the festival of Sukkoth. When the Jews gathered on the Temple Mount they were attacked by Christian monks. Many Jews were murdered. When some of the monks were brought for trial, the leader of the massacre, a monk called Barsauma, assembled his followers again. Now they threatened to burn the empress herself and inspired such fear that the proceedings had to be dropped. Barsauma later became Saint Barsauma.
John Chrysostom, another Christian saint and a Doctor of the Church, was even more extreme. He claimed that Jews sacrificed their children to Satan, an accusation which was to be amplified and believed throughout Christendom for centuries. He also claimed that God hated the Jews and always had done. His eight sermons of 387 whipped congregations into a frenzy of excitement and fanaticism: Jews were drunkards, whoremongers, criminals. They were lascivious, obscene, demonic, and accursed. They murdered prophets, Christ, even God himself.. Before long the sort of massacre of Jews by Christians, which in time would come to be known as pogroms, were being instigated by Christian leaders. St Jerome regarded the Jews as vipers. St Cyril, bishop of Alexandria, instigated a series of riots directed against them
A bleeding host was found in the home of a Jew in 1338, as a result of which several Jewish communities in Lower Austria and Moravia.. Between 100 and 500 Jews were mutilated and killed at Brussels in 1370, after someone reported seeing a Jew break a wafer. 41 were burned to death at Breslau in 1453, after a woman reported seeing a Jew stab a wafer. Confessions were obtained by the use of torture. Such confessions led to the burning of 27 Jews at Mecklenburg in 1492. 38 were burned at Berlin in 1510 on the strength of a single confession obtained under torture. The last known execution of Jews for host nailing took place at Nancy in 1761
Leo XII (pope 1823-1829) once again forcibly confined the Jews to ghettos and subjected them to the Inquisition. His Holiness also condemned a new Austrian constitution because it countenanced Jews running their own schools and colleges. As late as 1852 Pope Pius IX had persuaded Tuscany to prohibit Jewish physicians from practising medicine.
Catholic authorities had for centuries been forcibly removing Jewish children from their parents in order to bring them up as Christians. The whole civilised world was shocked to discover that this was still happening in 1858 when Edgardo Mortara was seized in Bologna and sent to Rome (see page 310). His Holiness refused to yield to world opinion and, after a triumphal parade through the ghetto in Rome, Edgardo began his new life. (The Church’s argument was that several years earlier a Christian maid had secretly baptised the infant Edgardo when he was thought to be dying, so he was already a Christian). In future the Church would be much more circumspect in removing children from their parents, though it continued to do so well into the twentieth century. As for the ghettos, it was not until 1870 (when Italian troops forcibly took Rome – the last remnant of the Papal States) that Jews were released from the last ghetto in Europe. One of the first acts of the New Italian kingdom after the liberation of Rome was to tear down the ghetto walls.
http://www.heretication.info/_jews.html
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chalcedon451 said:
The long history of anti-semitism is quite well known, Bosco.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im willing to bet this is not taught in catholic schools. You might be the only one to know this. Heck, until just minutes ago, I didn’t know most of this.
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chalcedon451 said:
It is, Bosco. You seem not to be well-educated on these things.
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Bosco the Great said:
Id like to see a post about how Chrysostome and St Ciril remind us that Jews are evil.
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chalcedon451 said:
Look up both of them in the blog search engine – I have written on both here.
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Bosco the Great said:
I bet I don’t know how to use search blog engine. Did you mention that these guys hated the jews?
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chalcedon451 said:
I did, and put it into context.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ah, you explained away the hatered of the jews by these saints? That outta be good. Your explanation on why its wonderful to make and bow befor graven image I always thought couldn’t be topped. But I could be wrong.
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chalcedon451 said:
I explained it, not explained it away.
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ginnyfree said:
These twists of the facts of history are unique to those whose religious affiliation is Anti-Catholicism. God bless you Bosco. Play nice. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Twits of facts. The old…”say it aint so Joe, say it aint so” Good brother Chalcedon didn’t say these were twisted. He would be the first to yell. Blind followers of popery love to deny that their beloved cult of Diana can do any wrong.. Its fun to watch.
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ginnyfree said:
Yes, Bosco, they are twisted. I have a lazy streak a half a mile wide, (it used to be a mile wide, but I got some help with it) so I’m not going to refute each particular mistatement of the facts. That what a bunch of you bananas do – you repeat after me of all the garbage strewn by each other, but then we, the good guys with all our oars in the water have to respond to all the garbage and it takes time and lots of work. You’ve repeated what you’ve been told to repeat for effect. But we the good guys, with all our duckies in a row recognize the garbage with our noses and as you’ve already experienced here for quite some time for I came along to bother you, you friends here do the work of gather the proper facts to clear up your foggy mind. But you keep sipping from the same sewer, so we can only clear up a little till you decide the pure waters of the Spirit are better than bilge. Choice is yours. I think you’d make a nice revert. You have spunk and if the Holy Spirit was allowed to have His way with you, you might clean up kinda nicely. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. Read a History book and not an anti-catholic diatribe site. What was teh last book you actually read? Was it a real book or a comic book?
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ginnyfree said:
As fro twisted facts, I’ll start with the first. Constantine wasn’t the first Roman who had trouble with Jews. Think Ceasar and Herod and all that was going on in Jerusalem when Jesus was alive. Think Bosco. Jesus was a Jew and Pontius Pilate was Roman, and he sentenced Him to be Crucified. Is that a Jew having some trouble with a Roman? Perhaps your twisted history site has another answer. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Bosco the Great said:
Though His Holiness failed consistently to condemn Nazi atrocities, he was content to continue referring to “perfidious Jews”. After the war he even condemned the concept of collective guilt as applied to the German people. To many this was the ultimate irony since the Church’s persecution of the Jews had for centuries been based on the principle of collective guilt.
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Bosco the Great said:
http://www.heretication.info/_jews.html
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chalcedon451 said:
Try this
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit_brennender_Sorge
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Bosco the Great said:
Ok. No one was safe from that paranoid good brother Hitler. Sure he would close catholic newspapers in Germany. he closed everyones but Nazi organs. But Vatican reps were at Hiltlers birthday parties having a great time. Yes, I believe Hitler would have arrested the Vatican clergy if the spoke out. But the history of the CC and the Jews was no different from Nazi treatment of them. This might shock you, but everyone has been down on the jews, not just the CC. God said that the jews would be a curse word amongst the gentiles, because they rejected him. Then god dispersed them thru the nations in order to get the idolatry out of them. They were following the gods of the nations round about and bowing befor their idols and burning their children to Molech.
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chalcedon451 said:
It comes as no surprise to any educated person.
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Bosco the Great said:
Most, even in here, don’t know that disgust toward the Jews is gods doing, but the Jews worked hard to earn that. even me, Bosco the Great, when I was young , real young, I had a distaste for Jews. I didn’t know why. It was because of a decree by god himself. Going to prep school in Beverly hills, I had many jewish friends. I didn’t care about their religion by that time.
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chalcedon451 said:
We have learnt better now.
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chalcedon451 said:
So , he says there is no collective guilt, and you complain!
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Bosco the Great said:
what happened to my big post? Did I push the wrong button?
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chalcedon451 said:
I will take a look.
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chalcedon451 said:
What is it called?
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Bosco the Great said:
It was a comment, not a post. Thanks
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chalcedon451 said:
Found it. It should be there now.
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Bosco the Great said:
Your a brave soul. Its not a pretty one. thanks.
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ginnyfree said:
Ummmmm…….good Catholic facts if I ever heard them. Ya know Bosco, some of the most anti-Catholic diatribes I’ve ever heard or read were said and/or authored by Anglicans. Guy by the name of Froude was famous for it. Pleeeeeease. God bless. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I’m still offering up my Communions for you you silly little beastie. Play nice.
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Bosco the Great said:
I think we agree on most things about this. Talk later. Got to get off the computer.
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chalcedon451 said:
Here’s the link
https://jessicahof.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/anti-semitism-cyril-and-chrysostom/
Enjoy.
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NEO said:
Bosco has never been particularly good about reading the articles, I’ve noticed. He merely blows in, blows up, but unfortunately rarely blows out.
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chalcedon451 said:
The pit of his ignorance is bottomless – it seems.
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NEO said:
It seems, or he digs faster than we can backfill.
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chalcedon451 said:
If he never reads anything he won’t improve.
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NEO said:
I know that, you know that, i suspect Bosco knows that as well, and just enjoys his ignorance, seems fun now but I suspect the Judge isn’t going to be very amused.
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Bosco the Great said:
Good brother Neo, these cathols think jus as bad about you as they do of me. But because you brown nose them so much, they don’t have the heart to tell you that you are going to hell.
Oh, wait a min. vat II says everyone is going to heaven, even Satan worshippers. Never mind
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chalcedon451 said:
If you’d ever bothered reading any of the links you’ve been sent on this, you’d see it wasn’t true.
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Bosco the Great said:
I read the links.
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Bosco the Great said:
Looking at you past post, I believe I read it. But I wasn’t interested in that’s vague double talk. Like Sheen say…not to blame the CC for what its members do, you go one further and try to unsay what has been said. No matter what CC “saints ” do, the faithful cathol will twist it around to be a good thing. After all, cathol saints are godly men of god. Just look at the images of them. They are so holy that even when they bodies are facing right, their heads are facing forward.
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chalcedon451 said:
No, I am not explaining it away, I am explaining it, not using it as polemic. This is a new concept to you, but information can be used to educate people, not just for the sake of smearing whole groups of people.
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Bosco the Great said:
These catholic saints are going to be in trouble up there in gods world. Those who persecute the jews will be persecuted in heaven. I fear those saint you all love to qquote are going to wake up in fire. Cathols say they model their lives after them. Model yourself after someone who is in hell awaiting judgment. Ive told you all millions of times how to avoid their fate.
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bruvvereccles said:
Bosco, I’ve had a dreadful thought. Perhaps you are not saved? What can we do?
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ginnyfree said:
Why save him of course! Quick get a rope and tie him down and sprinkle Holy Water on him and when he stop sizzling read the Catechism to him……………….sound like a plan?
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newenglandsun said:
Perhaps he is not saved?!? He isn’t saved. Period.
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chalcedon451 said:
You move from supposition to guess, to prediction, effortless without the aid of a single fact.
The fact is that the Church which Christ founded and which told us all what is in Scripture, tells us these men are in Heaven. You, as ever, choose which parts to believe, we are consistent and believe it all.
God, as you say, will decide – but if we are right, you better hope our prayers for you prevail.
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