If Jesus was not the Jewish sort of Messiah envisaged in the literal readings of some of Mark and Matthew and Luke, who was He? St John is clear – He was and is ‘the Word made flesh’, who was in the beginning with God and was God. Nowhere in the Synoptics is this stated in this manner. One could come away from a literal reading of Mark with the view that Jesus was the ‘Son of God’, that is a man in whom God dwelt in a very special way; indeed, those who hold what the Unitarians hold, tend to do just that. As with Arius, it is not that they do not read Scripture, it is that they read in in the light solely of the illumination provided by their own candle – and that, the Church has always insisted, is not enough. A man may well think himself illuminated, and he may well be, but if he be so by the Spirit, he will be humble here and submit himself, as Paul did, to the correction and opinion of his brethren. He may well end, as Paul did, by changing the views of those who sought to correct him.
Those who argue that the concept of the ‘Logos’ is a late, Graeco-Roman addition which effectively perverted the message of the Jewish rabbi have, of course, their own agenda, but they ignore the fact that John himself was Jewish, and that Paul, another Jew, said much the same thing even earlier than John. The idea was not alien to early Christianity, it was part of its revelation. As we have no idea of whether Paul and John ever discussed these things, we find ourselves again, in the presence of the fact that not everything the early Church thought was written down in linear fashion. John wrote at the end of the century, but the ideas he expounded were not just his, they were part of what was revealed to Paul and through the two Apostles, to the whole Church. If men accepted them, it was because their own experience of Christ told them the same thing.
Scholars tend to agree that the first letter to the Thessalonians is the earliest extant piece of Christian writing. Being written perhaps as early as the early 50s, we see in it what we have seen in the Synoptics. Paul proclaims that Jesus ‘died and rose again’ and that the ‘wrath is coming’, after which all who believe in Him will rise and live with Him forever. We see here already something which was new – the message preached to the Gentiles. We don’t know whether Paul had ever heard about the Centurion or the samaritan woman, but we do know what revelation had told him – which was the message was for all mankind, not just the Jews. The kingdom of God then is not the restoration of Torah and the Temple, and the rule of the twelve in Jerusalem – it is life in Christ when the earth has been purged of evil. Moreover, we see something here that John will help us explain – the Judge and the Saviour are two, but somehow the same God.
Paul, an observant Jew, does not insist the Gentiles observe Torah – ‘the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life’. He effectively abandons the idea of a revealed religious law – no Sharia for Christians. In its place he puts the highest moral law of all – love your neighbour as yourself. In place of the letters of the law, he puts the person of Christ Jesus, his life of service and self-sacrifice, and knows that in pursuing Him, we will be filled with the Spirit. This moral law is greater than any of the religious laws he knew previously, all of them are subsumed in it. The ‘men from James’ did not like this sort of thing, and they had good reason, not least that it could lead men to thinking that whatever they did was the prompting of the Spirit, and lead them to justify even their sins by saying they were already regenerate in Jesus. This was correct, the Corinthians did so, and men have ever since – but as we shall see, that is another form of literalism and self-will.
In its place he puts the highest moral law of all – love your neighbor as yourself
True. just as burning people to death is the exact opposite of this.
LikeLike
As is blaspheming the Sacred and the Holy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well, im going to agree with you there, as I guess everyone will.
LikeLiked by 1 person
so why do you do this, Bosco?
LikeLike
So why do I do what good brother Newengland? And anyway, what do you care what I do?
LikeLike
why do you blaspheme. we all care for one another here. when we see another of our brothers in the lord fall, we pick them up. if you’re sinning, we don’t judge because we are sinners ourselves, but we do our best to put you back in track.
LikeLike
its official. Someone has hijacked Newenglands account.
LikeLike
no one has hijacked my account. funny how you believe a murderer can repent and become a christian (unless you don’t believe paul started out persecuting christians) but you don’t believe i can change.
LikeLike
Come on, this is Bosco youre talkin to. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool all the people some of the time. Or something like that.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Considering that Bosco has been fooled by quite a bit of anti-Catholic websites, I’d say it’s rather easy to fool Bosco. I’ve fooled him into believing that I’m not good brother NewEngland. I’ve also fooled him into thinking that I was a Patriots fan (wait, that was my older sister).
LikeLike
A new study has linked a rise in HIV diagnoses with the emergence of Craigslist personal ads throughout the US. The research, conducted between 1999 and 2008, found that HIV cases rose in a city when Craigslist was introduced.
https://www.yahoo.com/health/the-puzzling-link-between-hiv-diagnoses-and-109987894272.html
When the NIH and CDC were grappling with what AIDs was, I tried to pass the word to then, thru proper channels, that it was virus, not bacteria. That would have speeded up the diag. I was at the forfront, being a lowly intern at a blood bank. Word had gotten out that people were getting AIDs from giving blood. Needless to say, our bloodbank was the loneliest place in town. But, somehow we had enough to keep me busy in Cryo.
LikeLike
CAIRO (AP) — A video showing Islamic State militants burning a captive Jordanian pilot to death brought an outpouring of grief and rage across the Middle East on Wednesday, its brutality horrifying a region long accustomed to violence.
Its no prob to the catholic church. They did it for at least 600 years. Then they claim they are the church that Christ founded. Funny. I didn’t know Jesus burned people to death for nothing.
LikeLike
You’re right. He lets them put themselves in eternal fire for what they did or didn’t do in life. You might best start evaluating your own life instead of the history of the Catholic Church. It might just save you from those fires.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Again, Bosco, more untruths, no doubt from the father of lies, with whom you appear to be in constant communion.
We get burning being used by the Spanish State after the 1490s, against the Muslims predominantly. It is used by Catholics and Protestants between the 1520s and about the 1580s or 90s. Now then, you do the math, but that’s not 600 years, nor is it just the Catholics.
Still, you seldom seem to need any facts to make up untruths.
LikeLike
It is always amazing how, when it comes to the Church, the historical accounts of the evil far outweighs the accounts of the good. If they want to pick any century they want, I will be happy to supply them with a list of Canonized Saints to even the score a bit. Of course, that does not included those good men and women who simply lived their lives according to the teaching of the Church and are lost to history and to memory.
LikeLike
Indeed – here’s a link to a piece of mine in the Catholic Herald on this subject:
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/issues/january-30th-2015/churchill-saw-catholics-as-historys-villains/
LikeLiked by 1 person
Amen. A good article C. Indeed the Church never had a dark age when it comes to spirituality. We have some of our greatest saints step onto the stage of life during our darkest hours.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Glad you liked it 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
The early thoughts about the Catholic church were correct. they lived thru the horrors brought on by the CC. After good brother Napoleon defeated the CC, they had no more teeth, and were just another religion.
LikeLike
That really is plain odd. What makes you think Napoleon defeated the CC? By that time there were plenty of Protestants and had been for two hundred and eighty years.
Still, I give you credit for making me smile.
LikeLike
What makes me think shorty defeated the CC.? Class is in session, no chewing gum and turn off cell phones.
Good brother Napoleon called up Berthier down near Rome and told him to arrest that devilish Bishop of Rome and bring him in chains to Paris. BHerthier did as commanded. he brought that wicked old sod to gay Paris in chains, and he died there in prison. Haha. The CC was no longer a force of law anywhere.
This fulfilled the prophesy in Rev that one of its heads was wounded unto death.
Now, another prophesy is fulfilled…the people wonderd after the beast.
Good brother Mussolini gave back the land under that slimey Vatican back to the CC. It became its own nation again.
The world wonderd after the Beast, as its deadly wound was healed.
yes, 1929, good brother Mussolini healed the deadly wound. The Vatican was back in the saddle again, just in time to cheer good brother Hitler and the Ustachi on to do their thing against the Jews.
LikeLike
Hate to provide some facts, but by that stage the Pope ruled only the Papal States, which they carried on doing until 1871. Napoleon’s treatment of the Pope alienated many Frenchmen. Popes before him had died at the hands of God’s enemies.
Class dismissed – Bosco, do some thinking and extra prep, you’re heading for an F.
LikeLike
I know other popes were killed, by men who wanted to be the pope. One pope was killed by the husband of the wife the pope was having sex with.Apostolic succession.
Heres the deal……berthier took the pope 1260 years from the time the CC was officially in business, to the day, which fulfilled the prophest that the saints were trodden down for a time and times and the dividing of times…..1260 yrs. We all know that independent Christians like myself were the target of the fierce wrath of the CC, and this went on for 1260 yrs. Then, as Rev says, the beast will come back. It did in 1929. Its deadly wound was healed.
LikeLike
Are you sure that you get all that from what Revelations says? Sounds like you have a bit of Nostradamus mixed in with a good helping of the Jack Chick school of Calumny. Amazing how you know with assurance what the texts mean when Revelations is a Book most difficult to decipher. Yet you stumble on the Gospels and the rest of the words in the NT. Sounds like you have raised yourself to the level of Prophet Extraordinaire. All hail Bosco the Great.
LikeLike
Of the misuse of Scripture there appears to be no end.
LikeLike
Ive examined the math and I believe scripture. That’s how I know.
LikeLike
No man but the Father knows the hour. The math is man-made nonsense.
LikeLike
No man knows the hour he returns, but he gave us time lines for other things, like the saints being downtrodden for a time, times and the dividing of times. That comes to 1260 years, a year being the Hebrew year of 360 days. He also give the trib 7 years. You guys don’t believe your own eyes when you read the scriptures. According to you guys, god is afar off and does nothing. Hes a cracker in a golden cage for all the behold. then you eat it and hes gone.
I forget what, but some council or another was exactly 1260 years to the day befor Berthier nabbed the pope. I believe the year was 1798, so in 1538 something happned that must have polarized the CC
LikeLike
Oh dear, never mind, I guess this is normal for California; any rain yet?
LikeLike
It all comes down to who is writing the history and what they want to celebrate or denigrate. If you want to denigrate any period, church or country you look for the most monstrous examples you can find. If you want to celebrate, you look for the saints. My guess the truth of the entire society or church or country is somewhere in between.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Indeed. I guess some didn’t get the ‘none are without sin’ memo!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Apparently not.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I like the article, as you know, and it’s a side that needs telling. I do think that you underestimate the psychological effects caused by the French and then the Armada, not least because of the psychopathy of Phillip II.
i also think that the turn away from Europe that Henry initiated has very much indeed to do with the course of modern history, especially the role of England and the very fact of America.
i must have been a very disorienting age to live in. Whipsawing from one religion to another every time the monarch changed. I wonder if that was part of the cause of the Glorious Revolution, simply to have it over and done with.
LikeLiked by 1 person
There’s no doubt that the effect of the Spanish and French had a great effect on how England saw Catholicism. The stupidest thing ever done by a Pope in that line was the call to English Catholics to depose Elizabeth. Goes to show they aren’t infallible except in morals and faith!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, it was a very good example of action: reaction. I have the impression that up to that point Elizabeth was trying to ignore it as much as possible.
Morals and faith, yep, I’ll give Rome marks for being very nearly infallible on those, and follow it’s guidelines myself. I think the doctrine itself, may cause some problems, a bit of hubris on one side, and some resentment on others. Which doesn’t mean that Rome isn’t right on them 99.95% of the time. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, it naturally made Elizabeth take firm action against Catholics. It is one reason Francis is careful with China – no point putting your flock at risks for the sake of rhetorical flourishes.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I agree, and their are other examples in recent history, and there has been criticism from some fools.
LikeLiked by 1 person
C, how dare you besmirch my beloved Churchill! Your only hope for salvation is a pilgrimage to Chartwell, on your knees wearing a hairshirt. Repent! Repent!
LikeLike
There’s a whole big book too ‘Churchill the end of glory’ 😄
LikeLike
Papal States. id like to see you deny they were hell on earth.
LikeLike
I was not there. I am here though and know that you deny that our Lord founded a Church , that Baptism by water and the Spirit was not established by our Lord and that the Eucharistic bread and wine is truly the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our dear Lord. So if I did deny history and you deny Christ which is of greater importance?
LikeLike
Jesus didn’t found a church. He is the church.
LikeLike
He is the head of the Church. He left us men with the aid of the Holy Spirit to continue to be a visible Mystical Body of Christ in this fallen world. It is all in your Bible if you’ pay more attention to it that you do the anti-Catholic websites that you read. I know it is easier to just eat up their conclusions rather than forming your own but do try.
LikeLike
That’s not what he says in St Matthew. I am sure you need the Bible – your memory is failing.
LikeLike
yes, he is the cornerstone and its head. But the men that comprise the rest are called His Body.And my opinions about the CC are from personal testimony from catholics and scripture. The sites I stumble upon say what I already know.
LikeLike
Yes, it is common for those with prejudices to seek out information to confirm them.
LikeLike
The CC is just another religion. Isnt that true? Theres tons of religions out there. of course you defend the one you subscribe to, its only human nature.
LikeLike
No, thereis one Church which Jesus founded. You losted it.
LikeLike
Denied. they were no better and no worse than any other medieval autocracy. today, no better and no worse than any other part of Italy. Hell on earth? For that try what used to be Syria.
LikeLike
Well, I guess it depends on what one considers a bad government. The accounts of people who traveled thru the papl states were accounts of chaos. Clergy running hog wild on the populace. heaven help the earth when the CC runs the show again.
LikeLike
The CC sends people to hell. What good shall I say about it? it has people thinking Mary will save them.
LikeLike
No, no one except the terminally ignorant has ever said the CC sends anyone hell – God does that.
LikeLike
Well, its a choice. If one dies without Christ, one stays separate from him in the afterlife. Jesus himself said how it works. If one dies not knowing him, that one goes to the lake. he didn’t say your religion saved you, or a cracker saved you or a costume saved you or you went to mass enough. he says …I didn’t know you. that’s why I tell people to open the door and let him in. Its the only way.
LikeLike
His body and blood feed us – he said so. Why you keep calling him a cracker, only you know.
The Apostles were all keen on belief in what Jesus told them and they passed on. Don’t recall any of them saying otherwise.
LikeLike
You never tire of telling the same lies. Maybe some will listen and be led astray. You seem to think you know more about the Catholic Church than those who are Catholics. Why such arrogance? You are so full of yourself – your pride over runneth and spills from your slippery, lying tongue. Pride is sin as is lying just in case you think it OK in the church of Bosco.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lying is saying something that one knows not to be true. I stand by my statements about religions.
LikeLike
You can stand by the lies all you want. You have no way to know what is true or not because you get all you information from unreliable sources. You do not listen to the sources you should and dismiss all evidence other than the jackasses you think are smarter than God, the Apostles and the Church.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Belief that Jesus is Lord is a religion. Guess you didn’t know that?
LikeLike
I don’t point my finger at catholics. You are a catholic. You would never behave in such fashion. I point my finger at the clergy. Still, im not surprised that you minimize the evil done by your clergy. Bruno was burned in some public square in Rome. Its just how the CC operated. It is catholic to deny the wickedness of Catholicism. after all, its where you trust your salvation.
LikeLike
BB, what’s your problem? Burning at the stake, in that period of time, was SOP for heretics of all religions in the West. We as Catholics have never denied we were involved in it. Hell, we even burned St. Joan of Arc.
We get it. You’re a bigot against both the Church the clergy and its members. You are the only one who knows how to read and interpret the Bible (though you can only interpret it literally).
Wac-a-mole is what you want to play, we’re only to eager to oblige. Pop your head up again, I haven’t a full innings with you recently.
LikeLike
Ah, good brother David, you do pay attention, better than good sister ginny. that’s rite. I don’t interpret the bible. I take it at face value. Thank you for telling the truth about me.
LikeLike
Except when it mentions the Peter as the rock in which the church is built, the bread and wine being his body and blood.
LikeLike
I go with the bread and wine being his body. I don’t have a prob with that. But the CC has twisted Peter the rock thing. You have to read what Jesus said befor the rock thing for it to make sense. Jesus has always been the Rock and is still the Rock. But I have every confidence that the CC is built on a man.
LikeLike
Do why did Jesus change Simon’s name to Peter, which means rock? And please, don’t try the ‘pebble defence’,in the language Jesus spoke, Aramaic, Kefas means rock. Jesus renamed a man Rock and said on you I build my church. Take it up with the man-made doctrine you spout, which no man thought of before the1500s.
LikeLike
Once good brother Peter was born again at pentacost, he did great things. As long as one holds onto men, they will reap what men have to offer.
LikeLike
Well, as we Catholics hold on to God, that’s interesting to know.
LikeLike
No, it wasn’t how the CC operated, it was how the whole society operated back then. Yes, then, and now, there are some clergy who commit crimes, but why do you insist on smearing everyone for the crimes of a few?
LikeLike
The entirety of the clergy were in on burning people. Not just one or two evil clergy. Every town in Europe had a CC torture chamber. It was like Starbucks, one on every corner.
LikeLike
Bosco, I know where you get this stuff, and like everything else on those sites, it isn’t true.
LikeLike
ive been to the torture chambers. Theres tons more in south America. We didn’t put up with that in the US of A. Ill bet theres still a bunch in what ever town you live in good brother. Some have been preserved and some turned into nite clubs
LikeLike
I live in the UK and visit Europe frequently and have seen only one – in Italy. If your acquaintanceship with Jesus is like your one with the truth, it is quite distant.
LikeLike
Id take burning at the stake to the torture meted out by the hands of the church that Christ founded.. I went running out of the chamber because I was going to vomit. To this day I cant think about it or talk about it much, If you have noticed. Its just unspeakable want you church did to people. Maximize the pain and enough to keep them alive to feel it. This is what you call the church Christ founded? I don’t even want to talk about it anymore.
LikeLike
It was what States did back then, Bosco. As you live in a country which still kills prisoners, I think you may need to remove the beam from your own eye first.
LikeLike
Roscoe, its so good to have a pedigree Catholic Sinhound to help us ferret out all the sinners from the Catholic Church. You’ve found hundreds, maybe even thousands out of the billions that have navigated life under her tutelage. Well, I think you have now caught your limit for the day so you can go home and sleep well knowing that you have had another successful hunt. Good boy, have a dog treat and get some rest. There are many other pesky sinners out there wandering among the Catholics. Just know we are grateful that you are helping us clean it up. Soon, with your help, I guess there will be no more sinners within the confines of the Church.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think I have to clear the air again. I don’t give a damn about the catholic church, or any church. What I care about is your relationship with your maker. the eason I point out the horrors of the CC is to drive home the fact that its claims are false. The Holy See is a den of homosexuality. The Curia….ditto. The Holy Office ran the torture and burning of innocent people. I want to impress on my brothers here that the CCs claims are all false. Its rituals are false also. that stands to reason. A bad tree doesn’t give good fruit. My friends, you need to ask Jesus to show you the rite path. Heres a little bit of the church you think Christ founded;
.
..
.
.
The Vatican Bank is one of the most mysterious institutions in the world. The completely independent financial institution is run by the Catholic Church, and until 2013, had never released so much as a financial report.
Pope Francis is finally attempting to shed some light on the fabled bank. Under his watch, investigators have closed more than 3,000 suspect accounts, long-standing bank officials have been fired and the institution now serves only Catholic institutions, clergymen and diplomats within the Vatican. The pope even reportedly considered closing the bank after a scandal in January of 2014 where Msgr. Nunzio Scarano, then-accountant for the Vatican’s real estate holdings, was arrested for attempting to use the bank to smuggle and launder millions of Euros.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-look-inside-the-mysterious-vatican-bank-183740667.html
The bank for religious Works. The Holy Office. The Holy See. These are false claims. And im afraid that the rest of the claims are bogus too. You will die in your sins trusting Mary to save you. The claims of the CC are patently false.
.
..
.
.
LikeLike
You proceed from false assumptions and you get into a mess; read what Scripture says about the blind leading the blind, then pray and get out of the ditch.
The fact that across two thousand years there are sinners in the Church surprises only people with no sense of history who don’t see that they, too, are sinners. The fact that at times the Church behaves as part of the society within which it is embedded surprises only those who do not see that they behave as part of their own society.
You seem to imagine a church which has never existed – one with no sinners where everything is wonderful – can you point me to this group of peopple?
At the same time, you ignore Christ founding a Church, you ignore the fact it gave you the Bible, and you ignore what it says, preferring, instead to pour out prejudices and bile. No follower of the real Christ could mistake you for one of them.
LikeLike
Prejudice and bile. ratzingers own aid exposed the corruption inside the Vatican. I didn’t. But when I repeat it, im spewing bile and prejudice.
LikeLike
No, when you bang on about it as though no one else knows it and you’re bringing news, yes.
LikeLike
Why don’t you get out of the CC ? Why stay in a corrupt religion?
LikeLike
Jesus founded a church on a man he renamed rock. Now why would anyone leave a church founded by Jesus for one founded by prideful men? Are there sinners in it? Well, name me the person who is not a sinner?
LikeLike
You keep working your math for eternity Bosco and you’ll still never get to the truth of why you ended as badly as you will.
Instead of math, you should show me the spiritual fruit of your religion: the spiritual legacy in books written for those who truly want Christ to fill their lives and who love Him.
I will give you just a few that perhaps you. It would do you well to spend some time with these spiritual classics: Confessions by Augustine, The Imitation of Christ by Kempis, The Dark Night of the Soul by John of the Cross, The Way of Perfection by Teresa of Avila, The Transformation in Christ by Hildebrand and of course The Ascent of Mt. Carmel by John of the Cross. Do read them and tell me these Catholics are less than what you claim for yourself though you have no books or works to speak of.
LikeLike
I fear that Bosco will read nothing, which is why he will learn nothing.
His method is the once he declared in a recent comment, which is to show us all that since there are bad people in the church who do bad things, it can’t be the church. As that is wrong from the beginning, he will fail with all but the ignorant.
I answered him more fully when he said it earlier. But if he has not worked out that his methods are not working here, he needs to ask himself why?
He might also ask why he is still here? He thinks it is to teach others, when it is so that he, himself, might learn, and I suspect he will be kept here until he learns.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes it is rich that to imagine him, in a cult himself, reaching out to those in other cults. It just shows you how people like Jim Jones or David Karesh get some fools to follow after them.
LikeLike
The difficulty is he’s sincere enough – but sincere doesn’t cut it when you are sincerely wrong.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Indeed. There is no end to ignorance among men and some more so than others; giving their lives up for idealism and outright lies. A sect that forms accusing all of sin but themselves is a fools errand but then a fool has nothing else to do in life but run errands whether meaningful in any way or not.
LikeLiked by 1 person
He’s sincere, which is why he perseveres. He is wrong, which is why he won’t prevail. He is a child of God in need to the Truth, which is why we persevere.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well perseverance is a virtue as long as it is perseverance in the Faith and Truth. As to the other it best called obstinance.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have Moses and the prophets. You can keep your words of men. You love the things of men.
LikeLike
Like Catholics don’t have them, I suppose. You’d do well to listen to real spiritual men than the men that are running the websites you seem to think are infallible. Best ask a good Catholic than absorb lies from those whose whole mission in life is to denigrate the Catholic Faith. Ever hear of prejudice Bosco? That is from whom your information comes. You may say that you deciphered it from Moses and prophets all you want. You got from others who did the deciphering for you and they speak with a forked tongue; they have an agenda.
LikeLike
Good brother Servus keeps asking me about my religion. I don’t have an answer. I don’t belong to a religion.
LikeLike
That’s true. You belong to a cult in the worst sense of that word. According to you God has His hands tied and only saves people the way you think it happens. What happens to those born in circumstances that don’t even know that there is a Jesus? Your God is incapable according to you from saving them from Hell. That isn’t a religion it is an ideology like Islam cult.
LikeLiked by 1 person