Some writers would have us believe that in response to the events of the period between 70 and 135 AD, the early Church fundamentally changed its view of Jesus, and that a Jewish prophet was transformed into a Christian God by the infusion of Platonic concepts via St John and his idea of Jesus as ‘the Word made flesh’. This, of course, an odd thing, since St John himself is part of the Tradition of the Church, and wrote in Apostolic times, so it is hard to argue that his views were somehow not those of the early Church. If his views gained great traction, it was because they spoke to the experience of Christians who also encountered Christ.
What John offered, and offers, is, like Paul, a way of understanding some of the things in Synoptics which, if read literally and in a purely Jewish context, pointed to a Jewish Messiah who was going to liberate Israel. Clearly, by the time of John’s death. Jesus was not coming again in the lifetime of any of the Apostles; that may, for all we know, have led some of what St Peter calls ‘scoffers’, to reject the Christian message; but for most Christians, it meant trying to understand what such texts really meant. Now, if one means, by ‘tradition’, accepting what one generation held and never changing it, one is, alas, out of luck at the very start, because the second generation of Christians, like nearly all subsequent ones, did not accept that the end of the world was nigh.
That second generation also had to drop the idea that the ‘kingdom’ meant the return of the twelve tribes to Jerusalem under the rule of the twelve Apostles; it had not happened, and it still has not happened. Oddly, or not, not even the most literalist reader now accepts what the first generation who heard Mark, Matthew and Luke accepted about this matter. Having written that, someone may well point out some American sect which does indeed believe this; if there is one, leave me in ignorance of it.
If Jesus was not, then, a political Messiah who would come soon to free Israel and restore the Torah, what was He? Here, both St John and St Paul provided what would have been missing from Scripture if we had only the Synoptic Gospels.
If we had been provided solely with the synoptics and a literal reading, we should have been in trouble. Mark can be read as implying that Jesus was very liberal in his attitude toward the Torah, whilst Matthew seems to state precisely the opposite, stating that Torah must be kept to the smallest detail. Certainly all those who had known Jesus in the flesh seem to have been of the opinion that what Matthew relates was the case. The ‘men from James’ who preached against Paul’s views on Torah and food were called ‘false brethren’ by Paul, and yet came from the mother church of Christendom preaching what those who, unlike Paul, had walked with Jesus thought he had taught. So, they were, without doubt, upholding the tradition they had received, and no doubt expected Paul to accept that. As we know he did anything but, upbraiding Peter himself for backsliding and defending his views at the Council in Jerusalem, where they were accepted. As far as we know, the Jerusalem Church continued to insist on Torah, but as it was destroyed in 132 AD, that turned out not to matter.
Nonetheless, we see, again, how the Church struggled with what it had received and, far from insisting unbendingly on a literalist understanding, was open to the movement of the Spirit. The discussions were certainly heated ones, but we are in the presence of men open to the promptings of the Spirit and who, when it points where they did not think to go, went there all the same. Those who had known Jesus seem to have thought keeping the Torah was what he wanted, those who had not, or who accepted the Pauline view, thought that this could be relaxed for Gentiles, a view Peter came to, and which his disciple, Mark, recorded in his Gospel. So, we see, in Mark’s Gospel, a softening of what was in Matthew, not because Mark was falsifying the record, but because he was accurately reflecting the developing understanding of the Church; that is true Tradition.
Well within the life time of the Apostles, the Church not only found itself having to reconsider what it thought Jesus had meant, it did so successfully not by relying on any external forces, but by following the promptings of the Spirit within it. Here, St John was perhaps the most significant force for good, although, as we shall see, his contribution led to much dissent.
An interesting post, C. I think what you bring out is the difficulty of changes in the Church’s understanding as embedded in Scripture vs changes in the Church’s understanding as found in non-Scriptural books. This is where the good literary types have proven helpful in pointing out things like the narrator’s voice, focalisation, and special uses of tenses.
Re: the divinity of Christ, I think the Apostle Thomas is an excellent plank for the orthodox. If the Apostle Thomas was proclaiming of Jesus “My Lord and my God” a week from Resurrection Sunday, then really the liberals have no leg to stand on when they claim His divinity was some later invention.
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Thank you Nicholas. Yes, it seems to me that there is plenty of evidence, but the difficulty is that we descend into discussions of what was meant by ‘Lord’.
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Yes, which is actually worth a Bible study in its own right, since there are various words translated that way in the Scriptures: Kurios, Despotes, Adon, Adoni, Adonai, Adonim, etc.But I think the word “God” in Thomas’ outburst is quite striking when compared with other times the Disciples address Jesus.
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I agree.
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I think that it is important that we understand that ‘keeping Torah’ involved both the Doctrinal and the Practice just as we do. It was the practices that were dismissed and replaced while the Decalogue and the Scriptures (The Word of God – the entire Septuagint) was embraced but reevaluated in the light of Jesus the Messiah.
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Yes, which is wonderfully communicated by Paul’s use of the terms: “spirit of the Law” and “letter of the Law” – although I would submit that these concepts were prefigured in the Psalms and the prophets, just not expressed in that manner.
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That was what was instrumental and even foundational in the development of the NT Church. We did, as Christ had said, looked for Him in the Scriptures and indeed we found Him there.
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Although I also find it interesting what He said to the Pharisees, “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life”. (Jn. 5:39-40, ESV)
By the way, have you read “Surprised by the Voice of God”? It really is excellent.
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No, I read very little these days, due to my eyesight – it makes me sleepy and glasses are really uncomfortable for me.. Mostly I read what I can make BIG and enhance the contrast so I don’t need my glasses.
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Ah, this is also true of many of my friends at church. You must be very pleased for the invention of the iPad, Kindle etc with their magnifying effects. I certainly find it helpful when I read the comments on here as the boxes tend to get squashed as the threads get longer. Recently I’ve started to wonder whether I should receive some of my daily bible reading as an audio file since Paul says in Romans that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I think BibleGateway and Blue Letter Bible both provide this service – and Blue Letter Bible is great for the LXX and Vulgate.
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Indeed I am happy for these inventions. For if I were to have to use my glasses as much as I probably should I would have to deal with the effects after I take them off; halos around bright objects and such – very common I understand from my retina doctor.
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CHAL “reconsider what it thought Jesus had meant…”
Of course as a non Catholic I look at the controversy with amusement but isn’t this what the current pope is doing?Yet he is a heretic and impure Catholic according to some.
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You’ll be catching that there is a wider drift to all of this 🙂 My own view is that those who think Francis is a bad Catholic have elected themselves prosecuting counsel, jury and hanging judge.
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We can only go by what he says. You cannot sweep all those statements under the table. Of course, those prosecuting counsel, jury and hanging judge opinions don’t hold much weight until they multiply a hundred fold as they have. Although, ginnyfree made a good statement the other day that I am trying to hold on to. She said to the effect: we have become spoiled having saints as popes, and now we have a common man and we don’t know how to handle it. Good post, BTW.
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I think we need to exercise a good deal more humility than comes naturally to us. Of course we think we can define Catholicism, but that is not our job, our job is to be good Catholics. If we begin with the assumption we know more than the Pope about these things, I am afraid we may begin in the wrong place. As the recent Synod showed, there are plenty of Bishops who will speak up, whatever the Pope says, and whilst we can speak up for them, we should do just that – not attack the Pope – if that makes sense?
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C, it also is the number one job of the pope, to be a good Catholic. The greatest teaching opportunity he has had was when the world heard “who am I to judge.” He could have spent the next two years explaining the phrase he used prior to those five words: “if one truly seeks the Lord.” He could have taught the world what this meant in a Catholic sense. I don’t think you can miss the meaning to lots of his statements, which the world has embraced for the last forty years, which is “I’m OK, you’re OK. If this is the case, what use is the Church? I hear you loud and clear, but when the pope is not a good Catholic, someone must say so, and many are.
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Which is what worries me. Are we actually qualified to make that judgment? We are all sinners, and it concerns me that some appear to think they can erect a hierarchy of sins, with, usually, their own at the bottom, and someone else’s higher up. That was what I took the Pope to mean with his comment. I certainly don’t take the secular media’s spin on it as a basis on which to condemn the Pope 🙂
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No, it may not be there open agenda, but the media isn’t exactly Church friendly in a lot of aspects. Sowing seeds of dissent is good for the media persons who are financed by those with an agenda. In many regards, the media is corrupted. And as a corrupted instrument, they very often become the instrument of political parties to promote an ideology, i.e. Nazi Germany’s propaganda machine. It has happened and has effected the history of the world. They have a power to move folks and when the apply it to the Pope, they do so to encourage folks to judge and disapprove of him. Make no mistake, they intend to separate the minds of the faithful from obedience and love of the Holy Father. They intend to turn minds and hearts away from loyalty. It is obvious. And the scary part is, it is working. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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It is, I fear. But I think the Pope is working them, so they aren’t having it all their own way.
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Yippie! Thanks Chalcedon. You really get it!!!! Who am I to judge? I try not to. It is a fault that leads to many failings. When tempted by the bait others throw at me to fall for this sin, I simply remember the Pope’s side-stepping of the bait and say, like he did, who am I to judge?” Ta da! One less sin in my day. I loved the hierarchy of sin stuff too. Very wise observation. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Thanks, ginny.
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It does make good sense but then there is one aspect I don’t know how we get around: and that is the practical problems associated with catechesis at this time. My wife has said that the expectations of changes has brought some rather belligerent people to RCIA. The standard (by the book) Catholic teaching is becoming difficult as an antidote or to mold these persons into good Catholics. She has one now, who wants to come into the Church, will not go to Reconciliation, nor will she let her daughter do so before her first reception of the Eucharist. My wife talked to her privately, banned her from RCIA class because she is argumentative and disruptive and has now sent her to the priest because she has shown up anyway which wastes the time of those who are there to learn. That is just one, but she has had inquiries of remarried divorced couples, homosexual couples and a host of others that think things are changing and they do not have to accept the teachings of the faith in full to be received into the Faith. It is hard enough in these times to engender the teachings of the Faith in this secular world when they now think that the Pope is reaching out and telling them that they are OK. It simply doesn’t square with the difficult job that these lay catechists have been charged with. Now, you either close a blind eye, or leave these hard cases to the priests and hope that they do not close a blind eye as well. But that is asking a lot when many of the priests don’t much care for doctrine either.
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I sympathise with your wife. While these enquirers need to be told the truth – which is clear – perhaps some if them will get over themselves and see where they are truly being led.
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Sadly, my wife can’t be everywhere at once. And some catechists and priests are not willing to deal with these things; they feel that they did not volunteer to argue and to fight; they thought they volunteered to be teachers and explain as best they can the teachings which the candidates think are more fluid than ever. With good catechesis some may indeed get over themselves but then, as expected, people see that though the interim document of the first meeting did not get the required 2/3 vote; it did get the majority. It leads them to think big changes are going to happen at the second meeting. What do you tell them?
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That all and any change begins with them. If they want a Church to approve their sins, they will find it – but not here.
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That’s when they tell you that even the Pope welcomes transexual couples to the Vatican and that he has implied that contraception may be OK to prevent women from breeding like rabbits. 🙂 Who are these catechists to judge that they are in sin when it seems the Pope isn’t concerned in doing so?
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The teaching is clear, and as far as transexuals are concerned, the Pope is right to show love to them.
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Nobody is saying that there is anybody who should not be treated with love. But at the same time, he has refused to meet with the Abbot of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, invited this couple (looks like a photo op) rather than giving them some straight facts about the sin that they are engaging in.
As I say, the changes and developments have been there from the beginning but the pressure being exerted on those tasked with passing on the faith has been increased beyond the capacity of most of the lay teachers in the parishes that I have any knowledge of. And yes, you or I might be able to hold fast and even change some minds. But remember Steve and I were removed from our voluntary work due to the fact that we held to the teachings and would not buy into the cafeteria brand of pick the ones you like and leave the others.
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I don’t know enough about the Franciscans to know what is really going on.
But I don’t know that telling someone confused about their sexuality that they are a sinner is going to help them, or anyone else. Letting them know they are loved by God is a good start – it is the follow up which worries me. As you say, good catechists are being shut out.
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It would certainly have made me feel better if their were a report about giving them a spiritual advisor or something to work with. Gender confusion is a serious issue and professionals need be involved as well. But as usual we have been left wondering what the implied message is and obviously, so are those unchurched who are now inquiring into the Faith.
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I think we’re better advised to take it for what it looked like – Francis being a huggy guy.
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Indeed he is. Seems to want to change the rite of washing of feet to the kissing of them as well. It must be the hot Latin blood in him.
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Well, there’s Biblical precedent for the feet kissing 😄
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Sadly, not at the Last Supper thought. 🙂
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Well, you tell them that Catholic doctrine or practice cannot be changed by an off the cuff comment even by the Pope. Of course, since they don’t have the knowledge to understand that statement, they will think you are trying to be more Catholic than the Pope, so they think you are crazy and from that moment on they will doubt all that comes out of your mouth.
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No doubt, but one has to do it all the same ☺️
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That’s when they go to Fr. Sandy and he fires the catechist. 🙂
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I agree! But, as you can see by the trouble Servus’s wife is having, the Pope needs to explain that if the Church is that field hospital for all, one of the requirements for admission is that all are sinners. You come into the Church and are taught how to evaluate your sins and repent. Many, many are getting the impression from this Pope, that they don’t have to realize their sins.
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Are they getting it from Francis or the media spin?
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C, I’ll answer your question this way. A Bishop’s job is to teach the Catholic Faith. I don’t think Pope Francis is stupid. He knows what impression the world is receiving whether it be from him or the press. The truth is that all are welcome. Francis keeps saying this every time he gets a chance. But, the Catholic Church is one of the last places on earth where you must also believe what and all the Church teaches. It’s a whole lot more than mercy.
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Indeed, and some have trouble doing that: some by wanting easy grace, and some by finding it hard to love the sinner. Francis may suffer from both, of course.
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Yes, as we all do.
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The Truth in charity. The doctrine will never change. When change is needed it is with the individual and his or her own sins. If they expect a church that changes with the times and “meets the needs” of it various members, they are not truly interested in the Catholic Church. They can find that kind of a place elsewhere.
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At least in the U.S. we see a belief in being entitled to things; so in the Church, women are entitled to be priests, homosexuals are entitled to same sex marriage, divorced are entitled to remarry, premarital sex is an entitlement as is contraception or abortion. So instead of conforming to a Church and its teachings they are on a quest to change the Church and its teachings.
What they don’t understand is that it is privilege to become a Catholic; not a right. It is similar to getting a drivers license. I’d like to see the state that would allow a license to someone who does not agree to abide by the driving laws. The laws are there to protect the law abiders and to get people to become law abiding citizens. That driver’s license is not a right; it is a privilege just like it is to join the Church.
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Why draw the line? In the land of entitlements, they are entitled to the Sacraments as well, and the job of the Church is to provide them. To some, probably some your wife has encountered, anyone who tries to explain sin and Penance and making oneself worthy to receive, is nuts and counter productive and trying to stop them from having something else that they feel entitled to, the Sacraments. They have a right to receive and who does she think she it trying to make it more difficult? Really. They just don’t get it. The only thing you can do is tell them the Truth about it all and leave their choices up to them and shake the dust off your feet when you leave them to go home after class. It a beautiful thing when someone really converts and to be a part of that mighty wind of the Spirit has got to be the wind in the sails of everyone on the catechist team. Most aren’t there for the noblest of reasons, but if you give them the Truth in charity then God can do what He does with what you present. Like a seminarian in our Bible study group said just last week, you have to presume in good faith, because you can’t really change anyone. That’s God’s job. Wish your wife well for me and let her know I’ll pray for her and her team. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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So many of his statements on the Faith and the Church, once you find the real statement, are pretty much orthodox. Although he has a sloppiness of expression which harms hims (and perhaps the Church), and allows people of ill-will to twist his words to their advantage.
On other matters, well he is obviously neither an economist nor a scientist. Sometimes shoemakers should stick to their lasts.
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NEO, hope you are feeling better. As a convert to Catholicism I know that it takes a long while to acquire a “Catholic sense.” To integrate all the various aspects of the Catholic faith, which will probably take much longer in my case. But, I have gotten to the place, along with many others, where we can ask of many of the pope’s statements, is this Catholic teaching or Tradition. In many cases the answer is no. This is what bothers us. It is up for debate if this is ill-will. But, the pope seems to want to eliminate sin, thus a need for repentance, hence no salvation. This is very hard for us to understand.
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Some Steve, and thanks for asking. I suspect, I am where I will be for some time to come.
I understand what you’re saying, Lutheranism isn’t much different, Hence the jokes about, “Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility”. I agree he has a tendency to universalism, in my experience most good pastors do. I don’t have answers for it, and yes some of what he says on the Faith strike me that way as well. Still, he won’t be Pope forever and the Church has survived worse.
A tip from a Protestant, in my church, we mostly ignore our bishops who are like the left wing of the Anglicans, and do what we see as right. it’s certainly not optimal but, it’s better than being misled from the truth, and the press truly does him harm. And a good deal of what he says has been mainstream in South America for decades, I think it one of the reasons that Evangelicals/ Fundamentalists are growing there.
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Some good points, NEO. I’ll try to calm down.
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No problem. It is very troubling, even on this side of the Tiber. 🙂
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Ah, but what they don’t see is that Our current Holy Father is more like a Fisherman then a diplomat. They expect even the Pope to be politically correct. I’ve heard that our Holy Father has used even vulgar language! Shock of shock to the “Church of Nice,” but Peter even drew a knife and attacked a man, cutting off his ear! Image the outcry from the “Church of Nice” over that if they only knew! No, the person of the Pope and his image is for them a cult of personality that must be maintained at all costs. But they also fail to see the compromise this presumes. The sad result of judging the Pope and his words and actions on the subconscious mind is damaging, but convince someone that doing so is bad for them or worse, a sin, and you’d be asking a fish to leave behind his fishbowl. They expect even the Pope to swim in one as well and never put out into the deep. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Excellent points ginny.
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Nice job Chalcedon. You do good work. I’m still pretty much a beginner in the deeper stuff and only have a few toes in some of the waters you’re splashing around in the above post. That means any comments I might add wouldn’t be helpful. God knows exactly what He meant and so did His Apostles. How well that was conveyed to others and interpreted twenty centuries later is really the issue if you ask me. We weren’t there, neither were any modern scholars. That means the most reliable source for the hermeneutic it still the Church and her dusty old tomes. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Hang in there, Ginny! i did a lot, and i mean a lot, of Googling in my first few months here, and still do some. It does get better, and it helps to form us better, as well. 🙂
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Very well said.
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Personally, I think we should all, Catholic and Protestant, alike, abandon all of this modernist stuff and return to the traditional mass. The Greek one not this vulgar Latin.
At least then we’ll have an excuse (at least us poorly educated Yanks). We can simply say, “It’s all Greek to me.” 🙂
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Alas, you remind me of how the poor Constantinopolitans can’t worship in Hagia Sophia….
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True, but lighten up. god has a sense of humor, so should we 🙂
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Indeed – which is why He gave us good script writers.
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Yep, and I’m rarely one of ’em.
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Ah, I was thinking of the people who write good sitcoms like “Frasier” – boy that had me laughing last night.
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That was pretty good. 🙂
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The choice of image is interesting since the Scriptures are sitting on a throne (which also resembles the “Ark” where the scrolls are kept in synagogues behind the Bema. Some Protestants looking at that would say “Right on!”
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I am glad someone spotted that 🙂
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🙂
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Thank you; that is a very good way of putting it.
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Take a little time out from waving the catholic flag. Let us remember the people the CC burned to death, for nothing.
A Jordanian politician in Amman wept on television as he described watching al-Kaseasbeh’s death, saying even a people attuned to violence could not bear witnessing the pain of a man burning to death
http://news.yahoo.com/leader-egypt-religious-institution-enraged-killing-090829436.html
Burning innocent people was the CC stock in trade. Keep that in mind while you bow befor its images.
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A Salvadoran nun who said she had no idea she was pregnant gave birth in Italy this week after she felt stomach cramps in her convent and was rushed to hospital, Italian media reported on Friday.
Hosted by: Caitlyn Becker
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/highlight/nun-gives-birth-to-baby-boy-in-italy/52dd4814fe344425e30001af?cps=gravity_3462_2958528321879031259
cant be. The CC claims all its holy people are celibate.
AAAhhhhhhhhMarcielChoooooo…Uh, must be dust in the air.
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Goodness me, what next – people break vows.
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If people break vows, why claim people don’t break vows? Why claim the clergy are celibate?
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That’s like saying why claim America is a law-abiding nation when we know some Americans commit crimes? You seem to have a need to tar everyone with the sins of a few. As this is the opposite of what Jesus teaches, perhaps you weren’t listening when you and he discussed this one?
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No no no. The CC claims its clergy are celibate. Are they? No. that makes the claim false. well now, you belong to a religion that makes false claims. What are you going to do about it? Stay in it or ask Jesus to show himself to you?
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No, that is the wrong way round. Men take vows, so do women, and they sometimes break them, and you somehow say the Church is to blame? Illogical, Spock.
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Allow me to be serious for a min. I say this in all honesty. I admire just one catholic priest. his name is Father John Corapi. He took the money and ran. The CC is just air, luft. It has no teeth. Good brother Corapi made lots of money selling catholic air. Books and appearance fees. On the slide, he had a hunny bunny. He wasn’t into boys like the rest of the costumes. he had resort home and boats and bikes. When the celibate CC found out, it wanted him to give it all up and go to a convent and sit in a little room and genuflect. Well, good brother Corapi thought……well I can either go sit in a little room and genuflect or i can roll around in the hay with my hunny bunny and speed around the lake in my speed boats and drink fine wine and snort coke while having wild sex. Hmmmmm. Which one do I want. Hmmmmmm. Do I want to give up the million I made selling air? …….heck no. Screw the Cc and their brand of Bulls&*&%. Ill take the hunny bunny
You see, this is exactly what I would have done.
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Was that after you met Jesus?
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Hello Bosco. A sister breaks her vows and gets pregnant, so that means that ALL sisters break theirs. A person drinks and gets behind the wheel and wrecks his car, that means that ALL persons driving are drunks so stay off the roads! That is how ridiculous your logic is. You go from one to all in a heartbeat. And your admiration for Fr. Corapi in his sadly fallen state only says you aren’t really a Christian if you admire those in serious mortal sin. Why don’t you applaud the sister too? God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Good sister Ginny, I wish you could hear yourself. I guess logic isn’t one of your strong points. You compare the average motorist to a small religious order. The average motorist doesn’t make a claim to be sober. the nuns, by virtue of their order, make the claim to celibate.
Its not human to try to force these things on sinful man. And anyone who thinks these nuns and clergy are going to stick to these ungodly vows are as wicked as the ones who make these unholy vows.
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You gad dammed rite it was after I met Jesus. Gimme the money, hunny. I love Jesus but it costs money to eat. But in fairness, Jesus fed me while I was a missionary. So its didn cost me money. I lived by faith. When did you live by faith? Never is my guess.
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The whole time Bosco. As St Paul says, we should work, and he who doesn’t shouldn’t be fed. I guess that’s not in your Bible either.
Are you sure you have a complete Bible?
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Mines complete`
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You miss out so much.
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Can you tell us about you missionary journey? I can. It was just me and Jesus, on the road. No change of clothes, no money. I went from LA to san Francisco. And all points between. My job was to meet and tell specific people the good news. I really wasn’t aware of what I was doing. I just did it. Now I know Jesus had some people he wanted to have a witness visit them. that’s how it works. The saved witness to people and they believe and get saved. Then they tell other people. Theres no costumes or flag or bank or jail. Just one person talking to another. That’s how its been since Jesus all the way to now.
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Odd that that is now what we see in Acts.
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Hello Bosco. “Screw the Cc and their brand of Bulls&*&%. Ill take the hunny bunny” That’s a whole lot of LOVE talkin’ ain’t it? You are anything but a loving person. Jesus said that the world will know us by our love. You admit lusting for a objectified woman. How stupid would a person have to be to believe that is Jesus Christ motivating any of that? You aren’t loving, you are lusting and using profanity against God’s Church. How coudl anyone mistake any of that for the charity that fills a Christian’s heart? No Bosco. You’ve traded what you once had for pure hatred and we all know who that comes from. You’ll spend your eternity with the author of your hatred unless you do something to stop it. You actually can. You can turn from your evil ways back to Christ. He only loves you and died for you. He laid down His life so you could live free from the hatred that binds you to a life of serious sins against Him and His Church and it’s members and yourself. That’s all you have is hatred. Why don’t you see this and turn from it? What pleasure is there in that for you? Who do you see when you look in the mirror after spewing your hatred at us here? These men are speaking to you constantly in love and much patience and all you do is slap them with words. Why? Are you really that jealous of the peace of Christ they have? And what about me? You haven’t responded to hardly anything I’ve said lately. I don’t think you can. Oh well. I’ve said enough. Sorry if I offend. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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If I don’t respond to you, its either
A; I didn’t see it..or
B ; I don’t have the computer all the time. its a community computer.
I try to give each man an answer.
Your sermon would be nice if I hated the people in here. But .THEY ARE MY FRIENDS.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. You mistook what Good brother corapi said as me saying it. True, if I was Corapi, I would have said it….make no mistake. And yes, I have nothing but contempt for Catholicism and other religions. And youre a dupe for belonging to the murderous CC. There is no Catholic Church. its a confederate of money hungry sexual pervert men who masquerade as a religion.You buy into the glitz and pomp and glowing costumes and think these guys are really something. Its a show. I went to private school with a bunch of stars and TV actors. My mother used to bring me back to reality by saying…..Bosco, all the worlds a stage and the people are actors.
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Bosco, I’ve come to the conclusion that your religion IS hatred. Do you have some ink on your knuckles that say so? Some of your types actually do. They put one letter of the word on each knuckle, h-a-t-e, across them and they grin and hit people with it. Is that how it came to be that you get to use a “community computer?” They let you out of your cell long enough to communicate your hatred beyond those walls? I’m just guessing. But I’ll say it again, that God you claim has saved you, is the God who built a Church you hate, Jesus Christ. That means you hate Him. And what does that make you? 👿 Yes, I once met another man with a similar delusion. He’s doing hard time now because he lost his temper once too often and did something he shouldn’t have. He got what he wanted. Locked away with a whole bunch of other men who allow hatred to consume them. But all you have to do to be free is to turn to God and beg Him for mercy and mercy will be yours. But you won’t because hatred still works for you. God bless you you poor man. Ginnyfree.
P.S. I will offer my Communion for you once again tomorrow.
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Well good sister ginny, I don’t feel hate for the CC. Im not consumed with hate for it. There is no catholic church. Anyway, im not concerned about what religion one belongs to. I tell everyone to ask Jesus into their hearts. The CC has thought ahead and nipped that in the bud. cathols are taught that people like me are wrong and heretical. Not to be listened to. Well, don’t listen to me. But do ask Jesus to show you the truth. he knows the truth, not me.
Who is your god good sister ginny? A plaster cast of some female? Or do you worship some cracker? Or is your Holy father some Bozo in some big fat costume?
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You say you believe that the bread is the body of Christ, then you mock the body and call it a cracker, and you wonder why none one here listens to you? Listen to yourself Bosco, nothing but prejudice, lies and bile. If that is the fruit of the Spirit in you, we know who that spirit is.
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Its comical, but there are lots of things cathols wont comment on. When I talk about good brother Corapi for instance. Or good brother Maloney. Another one is crying Mary graven images. The cathols wont touch them with a ten foot pole.
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What’a to touch, Bosco? Most of us do that thing that fellow Jesus told us – decide that only those without sin should cast the first stone.
Are you sure you have a complete Bible text? There seems a lot missing from your Bible.
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I don’t need no bible. Christ and him crucified is all there is. Ive skimmed thru those 7 books the cathols have in their bible. They are a joke. Cathols used to hit me with those 7 books, and one day I went on line to see them. Recently. After I skimmed thru them, I said to myself…Heaven help the next cathol that hits me with them 7 books. Im gonna rake him over the coals.
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If you examine your heart, I wonder whether you would find you did need the Biblr, after all?
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The bible is nice, but it speaks of Christ, who lives in heaven and in those who trust him.
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That must have you really worried about your salvation then.
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Since when was the fruit of the Spirit bile and prejudice and casting the first stone?
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Jehovas have more guts than cathols. I used to witness to Jehovas for yrs, befor I came to witness to cathols. Jehovas religion said that they were the 144000 spoken of in the bible. Its in their original manifesto. For all to see. hahahahahaha. Ahhhhh. wait a min. When the ranks of jehovas swelled to way over 144000, we have a little prob. What happens to them? OK, well someone went to the drawing board and came up with this…..some are going to heaven and 144000 are going to stay on earth. their field missionaries were told to say that they made a mistake and have corrected it and are honest enough to admit it, so that proves they are gods true witnesses.
cathols will never admit their manifesto is riddled with falsehoods.
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Sounds just like your strange ideas about the rapture, to me.
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My ideas about the rapturos are written in scripture. I think in greek its call harpatzo or something.
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One of the Marx brothers I guess.
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Good brother Servus, you better tell your students to ask jesus to come into their lifes, because a mouth full of crackers isn’t going to work.
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I loved Groucho in the movie Crackers.
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if you lead them astray, when they die and go to hell, their blood will be on your hands.
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Ditto. And you have much more chance of that do I.
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Until he mad men of nineteenth century America read into it what you read into it, no one had ever thought the passage meant that. A prime example of why reading Scripture outside the Church produces error.
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I witnessed to Mormons for yrs after I was thru with Jehovas. You want to talk about fun. cathols are stodgy stuffed shirts. its hard to make funny jokes about them, because they are a lifeless bunch of tombstones. Oh, but not Mormons. I had no shortage of jokes. I would go into a Mormon site and pretend I was a Mormon. The more berserk I became, the more they didn’t notice, because they are used to berserk Mormons. Theres no such thing as too berserk in the Mormon church.
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Or, indeed the church of Bosco.
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