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For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Say what you will about the King James version, but its cadences, minted when the English language was in its most vigorous phase, are unmistakable and hit home. That passage comes, of course, at the end of S Paul’s long encomium on the virtues of Christian love, from which it is plain enough that if we have such love, then we fulfil what Christ called the summation of the Law and the Prophets. Our earthly knowledge will pass away, but if we have used it as a tool to build up Christian love, then when the times comes, that will, as Chrysostom says in his homily on the Epistle, help us to the full knowledge which will then be ours by God’s Grace.
S Augustine put it well, when he commented that:
as this faith, which works by love, begins to penetrate the soul, it tends, through the vital power of goodness, to change into sight, so that the holy and perfect in heart catch glimpses of that ineffable beauty whose full vision is our highest happiness … We begin in faith, we are perfected in sight’
That is why the works of mystics such as St Isaac the Syrian, or Julian of Norwich (about whom Neo wrote so well on Tuesday) repay our attention. Not all members of the body of Christ have the same gifts, and those ‘holy and perfect in heart’ see less darkly through that glass than those of us with other charisms (and whatever we think, we all have them). We cannot, and should not try to, reduce our faith to sets of intellectual propositions. Dogma and doctrine are important, indeed, like Newman, I cannot understand a faith which lacks them, as it would amount to little more than a general feeling of goodwill, which, whilst not undesirable, is not and cannot be the same as faith in the Risen Christ. But these are the boundary fences which tell us where the limits are, they do no and cannot define the whole of our knowledge of God. Indeed, it is precisely because of this fact that they matter.
There are many spirits in this world, and not all are of God; and those which are not do not undeceive us, and undo their own work, by telling us of their real origin. So we might think we have this or that by personal revelation, and if it matches, or does not contravene the teachings we receive from the Apostles through Christ’s Church, then we can rest secure in them; but if it does not, we need to be most wary.
So we see, with holy men and women, a wrestling with the spirits of darkness, most of them talk, with S John of the Cross, of the ‘dark might of the soul’, and closer the walk with God, the more perilous, because the more the demons will seek your destruction; it is not their business to meddle with those already on the high road to destruction; it is their lot to tempt those who are, from their master’s point of view, in danger of being lost to him.
Though the last century offers ample proof of the opposite, it is typical of modern man to think that it shows the devil does not exist. If we are to hold to the narrow way, the light from the Church is essential, and if t it we can add the lessons and example of women like Julian, or men like S Isaac, we are the better for it.
closer the walk with God, the more perilous, because the more the demons will seek your destruction
Yeah, the more wicked the priestcraft, the more it shows how the CC is gods true church.
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Such hatred shows your fear of the truth.
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Good brother Neo, what the freak is your prob. This is what the CC is saying. What the hell is with your hatred thing?
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No Bosco, not in 2000 years has the RCC said that, not even once. Listen and learn, you know we’re right.
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Who is WE. I thought you are of Luther? Even mild mannered good brother Chalcedon said that you are a schismatic.
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There is rather a large difference between schism and heresy. You, of course, are a heretic.
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Oh yeah. in the eyes of cathols, im the heretic of the ages. Im glad the CC doesn’t burn us to death anymore.
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The Lake of Fire is eternal, Bosco.
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Bosco, we all, all across our churches, agree on you needing the church. Get there.
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Which church? The Lutherans or the cathols?
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The Christian, you need to listen. In a case as bad as yours, the specific church matters less than the guidance you need, although I think the RCC is better prepared for your affliction.
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Maybe I might get invited to a “priest party” Yeah baby yeah.
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You read your demonic hatred for Christ’s Church and Her priests into everything you write and say. Our Precious Lord was tempted by Satan as He is intent on destroying or discrediting all that is God’s Holy Will. It is why there is a long history of the Saints and other religious and holy people doing battle with the Powers of Darkness. They are dead set on taking the holiest of souls and see it as a great victory in the battle of Good versus Evil. Their is much rejoicing in the depths of Hell for every holy man or woman who is snatched from the hand of God as there is much rejoicing in Heaven for every sinner who is snatched from the hands of Satan. Which will you be? Will Heaven rejoice or will Hell?
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Jesus said that when he receives a soul, no one will snatch it out of his hand.
Holiest of souls and destroy them.
I guess Marciel must have been real holy. The devil came at him with both feet.
Wow. Im seeing your wisdom. Wicked priests are the holiest priest because the devil made them do it.
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No they succumbed to their weakness which Satan attacked. And Christ prayed to God that not a soul be taken from His hand, He did not say that this would not occur only that His desire and love for these souls was infinite which He showed by willingly going to the Cross for us.
And a fallen soul is not something to rejoice in as you always do when it is a Catholic. For Christ does not allow Satan to tempt us beyond the Grace that He gives us to withstand the temptation. So it is the failure of those who fall that they did not use the Grace of God and succumbed to sin. Satan rejoices.
Might you too be tempted by Satan? Will you exercise the grace given you to resist? You indicated yesterday that you intend to sin against God and your own flesh. That is willful sin, which is worse than when one is confronted with the temptation in a moment of weakness – sort of like the difference between a crime of passion and a premeditated crime.
But no problem for you: for you do not think that God cares that you mock Him by sinning against His Holy Will. You might find that your testing of God will not be looked upon with favor when your judgment is at hand.
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“And Christ prayed to God that not a soul be taken from His hand”
How does Christ pray to himself if he is God?
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O Carl, you evoke the mystery of Christ and the Trinity at once. Christ was said to pray to His Father repeatedly in Scripture, a mystery to be sure. We could have asked how Christ (Who is God) could allow Himself to be tempted by Satan. One can only say that He operated in this world by a Divinely Guided and fully submissive human nature, since He had both fully.
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And I might add that He did these things for our sake not His own, as He had no need: Birth as a human baby, Presentation at the Temple, His Baptism, His Temptation, His Passion, His Death. Why didn’t He just come down from the Cross? The short answer is because He Loves us enough to die and suffer for all of humanity by being fully man and repaying the sins of Man by being the Son of Man who would give the life of the Son of God so that man might become sons of God as well. “O Happy Fault, that gave us such a Redeemer.”
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Amen
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Yeah, I know this is the orthodox church, but its the same ball of wax. Heres a girls tesimoney:
It was so important to look just right, because we had to look respectable to go to church, like pretty little girls. No pants, no jeans, no sneakers, no messy hair, no scowls, just dresses and smiles and curtsying before the icons, genuflecting and kissing the feet of saints
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/georgia-kolias/when-religion-goes-wrong_b_6431816.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
They make the children twofold the child of hell as themselves.
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You didn’t read that piece did you, Bosco. Its main theme is about the rights of lesbians to have their children baptised and an insistence that the Church recognise gender reassignment. I wasn’t aware that you supported gay rights Bosco?
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Homos have the same rights as Mickey Mouse members here in the US. They just want special rights. I don’t care about the rest of the article. I was highlighting the idolatry of that style of religion.
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Again, you show a wondrous ability to read something which is not there and miss the main point – which is she wants the Church to say that homosexual activity is not sinful. Are you agreeing with her Bosco?
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To be honest with you, I stopped reading after the quote I posted. That was all I needed. I saw that the rest of the article was just blah blah blah. Im not interested.
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I suspect this is part of your problem. You don’t actually know how to read properly. You find some words which you think support your prejudices and then ignore what is actually being written. It really would explain most of your attitudes.
Reading is meant to widen your perspectives and open your mind, not to support whatever half-baked idea you think you may have grasped part of.
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I resemble that remark.
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I fear you are identical with it – so strong is the resemblance.
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Oh that’s rite. cathols see nothing wrong with bowing befor icons and kissing the feet of graven images. Heck, they plumb done wore off the foot of Jupiter in the Vatican licking and kissing it so gad ganged much.
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Again, not Jupiter, St Peter, again, not worship but veneration, again, not thinking but knee-jerking from you. Have you not realised by now that no one here is in the slightest persuaded that you have a point?
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You forgot to say that no one kisses the foot of Jupiter and that its my imagination and im a bad person for lying.
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No one kisses the foot of Jupiter. If you can quote me one Catholic who kisses the foot of St Peter and says it is Jupiter, then you win. If you can’t, you lose – deal?
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Come on, what does it matter what one calls a lump of bronze? Really now. Its a graven image, the likeness of a man. That’s all it is.Its not Peter or Paul or Mary. Its a freakinlump of bronze. idolaters like to name it and kiss it.
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One calls it a statue, Bosco. It is something you know nothing about – art. It must be a sad life you lead Bosco. No art, no poetry, no beauty beyond the carnal, and phallic symbols everywhere. If I were you, I’d take it as a sign that whatever spirit I’d et was from the father of lies.
Not too late to turn to the real Jesus and turn your barren life around Bosco.
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You forgot to say it fell out of the sky and that it wasn’t made by human hands and that its not graven by humans.
If, its made by human hands, its a graven image.
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Because, unlike you, I know something about art, and know it didn’t. It is not a graven image – those are images worshipped by pagans who don’t know Christ.
I am sorry that your lack of education makes you such an easy dupe for the father of lies.
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So it was made by human hands. It is the work of mens hands correct? That’s enough to satisfy me.
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The book the Bible is the work of men’s hands too.
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The paper and the printing? Well, of course they are made by the hands of men. Is that it? What did that prove? Is that the justification for Cookie Monster in the Vatican?
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It shows that men choose to glorify God according to the talents he has given them.
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Too bad. God told us not to make them or to bow befor them. But that seems to be the catholic stock in trade. Whats the latest count? Is it 164 or 165 graven images lining the Vatican circus maximus?
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God told us not to worship false Gods. He also gave us brains and a spirit of Truth: you should ask Him for both.
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I could while away the hours, conferrin’ with the flowers
Consultin’ with the rain.
And my head I’d be scratchin’ while
my thoughts were busy hatchin’
If I only had a brain.
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But as you don’t, you waste our time here 🙂
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Was the bronze serpent that Moses had made by the instruction of God an idol? Just curious about how you distinguish.
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Good question. God told US not to make for OURSELF any graven images. But god HIMSELF had things made for a reason. I distinguish between what god has made and what man decides hes going to make.
Ive heard time and again cathols saying that….Well, god had the bronze serpent made, so we can made any statues that we want.
Shabby excuse. But, if there was no idolatry, god wouldn’t have mentioned it so many times.
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But Moses was a man and the people listened to Moses not God. How about the cherubim on the top of the Ark of the Covenant?
And did the Apostles do a bad job teaching their earliest converts to the Faith? The catacombs in Rome are filled with images and likenesses of Christ, Mary, the Apostles and symbols representing various aspects of the Faith. Christians have been doing this from the beginning Bosco and yet you doubt those martyrs and early Fathers of the Faith.
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I cant speak for other people and why they did this and that. All men have to deal with their maker for themselves. Ive been in lots of catacombs. Ill never go in one again. Im claustrophobic now.
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The writers of the books in the Bible left their testimony of God in writings. Others left their testimony in art or in music. God made all things in the cosmos and can sanctify the works of his hand and inspire others to use their talents to praise God: the songs of David, holy pilgrimage spots on earth where Christ walked or the apostles walked are places where God’s grace in palpable in the stones themselves. Moses had to take off his sandals because he stood on hallowed ground. It is quite probable that pagans were there first but now God has made it hallowed. The same with the Temple site in Jerusalem and the places that Christ went to in this world. Christians naturally feel His presence in these places and therefore venerate them. Not everyone is a writer. Let the artist praise God with his talents, the musician with his and you with yours.
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Well, that’s all true except for image making.Images give false impressions. Anyway, the second commandment is there for all to see. Take it or leave it.
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Muslims believe that, Christians worship the True God – so how can we be misked?
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What about the cherubim on the ark? God had those put on his box because they are heavenly creatures. Don’t tell me, let me guess. because god has cherubs on his box, men are now free to make graven images of men and women and then bow befor them. Yes, Moses told the Hebrews what god said. Moses was just the messenger. Say, if just have to have your statues and images, go ahead. don’t let me get in the way. I can see they are important to you.
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There is no one blinder dear friend that he who will not see. To give our individual talents to the praise of holy persons is to praise God for giving them the grace to overcome the sins of this world. They stand as testimonies of what we too were meant to become: people who were transformed in Christ and who imitated Christ. These talents were given to these men by God. Is it best that these talents be used for worldly art for art which venerates the holy, turns minds and hearts to Christ and to acts of moral valor. You are blind but if you have never seen, it is hard to accept the concept of blindness for it is all that you have ever known. I pray the scales fall off your eyes and that God has mercy on your soul.
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Bravo. The CC must be proud of you.
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No, but it does celebrate God’s finest works among mankind; the many men women who have led saintly lives. We celebrate those works of God when we venerate the work of His Grace within these Saints.
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Well, since god loves images……bring on Tammuz. Let me kiss its feet.
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Oh, by the way, way is Hercules on the leg of the chair Jupiter is sitting on if its not Jupiter?
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Just where is that here?

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I saw it in a pic somewhere. You cant see it in this picture, which by the was is a wonderful pic. I love it. Look at the faithful cathol reaching out and touching the foot of the graven image. How touching. Does it warm your heart as much as it does mine?
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As I understand what is going on and you don’t, yes.
Again, I put it to you that you have made a false allegation which you can’;t support when called on it. How long before you realise that the spirit in you is that of the father of lies? Almost everything you say is provably false, and when called, you ignore it. This is not of Christ, Bosco, where do we see its like in Scripture – except in the behaviour of Judas Iscariot?
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Ill try to look up that site with the pic of Hercules on the chair.
Everything I said is true. Pictures don’t lie. You didn’t say that people havent filed by for hundreds of years kissing its foot. All you said was that satan is my master. Ive noticed that cathols get testy when I bring up kissing the foot of Cookie Monster or Peter or what ever you call that graven image. it gets in the way of denying that catholics aren’t idolaters.
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Pictures don’t lie, it is people who lie, usually people who know nothing about the pictures.
No one is testy, Bosco, I am simply sad to see you in thrall to the father of lies. Has it not occurred to you that that is why you tell so many lies?
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Ive been to the Vatican. I saw the graven images lining the courtyard. I saw the foot of Cookie Monster all worn smooth. The tour guide said it was from hundreds of yrs of the faithful slobbering all over it. I have no need to lie. It ruins ones credibility if one lies.
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You said it was Jupiter. That is simply lie, and, as you say, ruins your credibility. If you think it is Jupiter, ask why the father of lies put that thought in your mind.
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Lying is saying something false and knowing its false. I have no reason to make stuff up.
Satan didn’t put tht in my head. I read it somewhere.
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And who do you think keeps guiding you to sites full of lies?
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Lies, its all lies I tell you.
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Yes, it is a lie that the statute is of Jupiter; it is a lie that Catholics bow to Jupiter; it is a lie that bowing to a statue as a sign of respect to the person it represents is idolatry; it is lie that the author of Revelation was condemning the church in Rome. In fact, it would be shorter, really, just to say that almost every generalisation you make about the Catholic Church is based on a lie.
Confession is good for you Bosco, you should admit more often that you peddle lies.
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Oh good brother, you just gave me a new post for my posthumous site. Thank you much good friend.
it is a lie that bowing to a statue as a sign of respect to the person it represents is idolatry
that is precious, as my mother used to say.
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Idolatry is worshipping anyone or anything instead of God; the act of bowing is not idolatry.
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In fact, worship, properly speaking involves the offering of a sacrifice. The Catholic Church continues to offer the Lamb of God sacrifice as He commanded as our worship of God.
Bowing, prostrations and genuflections are merely signs of human respect and veneration.
When God gave us the 10 commandments the only idols that people bowed to were offered sacrifices, usually burnt offerings. To do this or to eat of the burnt offerings offered to these pagan gods is forbidden and is what God forbade. The Church understood that then and the Church understands that now.
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The church understands. Well, that’s good enough for me.
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You puzzle me sometimes. You tell us you are saved, but then confess you have trouble keeping the commandments. How do you reconcile these things with what St John tells us here:
‘his commandments are not difficult, because anyone who has been begotten by God has already overcome the world’ … does this mean, because you have not overcome the world, you are not begotten by God?
Looking forward yo you avoiding the question.
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The NT is for the born again. Its not talking to the religious blind follow3ers of costumes. No matter how I slip and fall, I realize that I slip. It is a process to be more at home with heavenly pursuits. But once one is born again, they stay born again. Once again, this is not for the religious.
Ask Jesus to show himself to you.
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Ah, yes, more wisdom from the Book of Bosco in his NT Gospel. Sounds like a vain repetitive and prayer that you are hoping will come true if you say it over and over again.
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It is Bosco, and your complete inability to understand a word of it is the proof. There is no Christian here, or anywhere else, believes as you do.
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Behind that one guy’s face, obviously. Either that or his arm.
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By the way, is this a photo from your personal album ? Looks like a home made photo, not a pro photo.
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It is from a friend.
It is a very fine statue Bosco, made by an artist to the greater glory of God. Some praise him in words, some in song, and some in paintings and statues.
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Thank your friend for me. Im gonna put it in my photo album
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com, so the faithful can call my site pornographic and other assorted names.
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To the filthy, all things are filthy.
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We agree on something after all my brother….that I, Bosco the Great am filthy.
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Turn to Jesus and be washed white in the Blood of the Lamb.
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Thanks. that’s the best advice ive heard yet.
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Take it, Bosco. Jesus died and rose so that you should have lifem and life more abundantly.
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Yes he did good brother.
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In Rome there are numerous works of art intended for Pagan deities and Roman emperors perverted into Christian notabilities.
ANGELS, in St. Peter’s of Rome, are old Pagan statues of Cupids and winged genii. GABRIEL in St. Peter’s of Rome, is an old Pagan statue of the god Mercury.
JOHN THE BAPTIST, in St. Peter’s of Rome, is made out of a statue of Hercules. ST. CATHERINE, in St. Peter’s of Rome, is made out of a statue of the goddess Fortuna. ST. GILES (or EGIDIUS), in St. Peter’s of Rome, is a statue of Vulcan.
Read more: Pagan Works of Art | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/pagan-works-art.html#ixzz3OKdyWDrL Peter, ooops, I mean Jupiter, isn’t the only one. Its just the one I love to bash cathols with because they cant deny they kiss its foot. Since they cant deny it, they turn and rend me personally for daring to even bring up the subject.
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Oh dear, Bisco, if you believe such sites, there really is no hope.
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Rome has zillions of these statues. Whats so hard to believe that some of them are still in Rome, and in the Vatican.
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I guess you are with the Taliban, Bosco, who blow up ancient works of art? If I found myself agreeing with them, I’d seek help from Jesus.
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Muslims don’t like graven images, so they say. Still, their religion is fake. One more phoney religion to drag people to hell with it.
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You and the Muslims – two sides of fake religion?
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Here’s some history, Bosco. The statue was sculpted by Arnolfo di Cambio in the 13th century, it is not a reused statue. As you rightly say, lying undermines your credibility; or would if you had any left.
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Its rumored that this Cambio gave it a facelift. The halo is of Roman pagan design. Its the pagan symbol of deity. Im sure you know this, Mr Art historian. Hence the halo on Peter, ooops, I mean Jupiter.
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The halo is a Christian symbol, Bosco.
I guess, that since pagans used the word god, you are against Christians using it?
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halos are in Roman “art” befor Jesus was born.
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Lots of things were. The word god was. Do you suggest we don’t use it?
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I pointed out that Peter has a halo. A roman pagan symbol. It was made befor jesus was born.
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And, so what? We use the word god, a word the babylonians used – so what?
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So, Peter is a roman god graven image. It has the halo, which shows it is of roman origin.
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It is what educated people call a sculpture, Bosco. if you want to use Taliban like language, have you thought of emigrating to Pakistan?
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That’s not my style. I don’t go around breaking statues . Hezekiah did, but he was King, so he didn’t get in trouble. Yeah, that’s rite. Hezekiah tore up all the images and he was favored by god. But, you know better than that. Images are good. Stupid ol Hezekiah.
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As we know, God commanded Moses to have images made – still, perhaps you know better than God?
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Plus, the statue of Jesus in the Vatican is really Zeus.
Hate to tell you, but your religion has pulled a fast one on you.
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Hate to tell you, Bisco, but you’ve bought a crock. The statue was sculpted by Arnolfo di Cambio in the 13th century. Try learning about the history of art, Bosco.
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Well it is no wonder that he continues in this vein, after all he only accepts what he believes already and does not examine facts or accept another idea counter to his prejudice. Such selectiveness is inherent when you have become a church of one and a grand poobah of useless propaganda by rabid anti-Catholics.
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Well, the important thing is that they are there. Some like to call them art. cathols would rather die than admit their church headquarters are full of graven images.
Theyer not graven images. Uh, they are beautiful works of art that inspire us to godliness. They cant be bad, uh, because , uh, because they are in the church that Christ founded, and they must be good. Oh, never mind the second command. The bible is a dead letter. Anyway, we have the catacomb, or, catechism, what ever its called. That trumps the bible. The catechism says its a good thing to use statues to direct your prayers. So screw the bible.
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As with that article you posted a link to, you read and do not understand the Church’s Book. God nowhere said don’t use the talents I gave you to worship me; he said don’t use them to worship false gods. But as a non-Christian, you can’t understand the Bible.
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If you say so good brother. I usually trust you on most things. But im not going to use statues to direct my prayers. The invisible God is my Lord.
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No one says you have to. I don’t tend to use them myself, but then nor do I accuse those who do of idolatry.
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Yeah, I figured you don’t bow befor them. You don’t seem the type.
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We don’t have a single statue in my local church. However, where they exist and people appreciate them, that seems fine.
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Hmmmm, that’s odd.
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I am afraid that it is you who likes to deflect. You have gone off on one of your favorite tangents – the use of art – and ignore the important questions which have silenced you.
You take sin lightly and say that Jesus gives you a right to continue in your sin without shame or remorse.
You claim yourself reborn of the Holy Spirit and yet will not speak of the signs of such an experience such as the Gifts or Fruits of such an event.
As usual, you toss mud and create smoke screens to cover your nakedness.
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I admitted that my feet hasten to do evil. But I usually chicken out befor acting on my urges.
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Usually? I thought you were filled with the Holy Spirit? Surely the Holy Spirit would not allow you to sin against God and man? How about the ruin of another’s soul through your sin? Is that OK with Jesus? Next time you sup with Him, please do ask.
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I have asked him. He says im a sad excuse of a Christian.
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Then why do you think you are saved now and forever and are not in danger of losing your election?
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I cant undo being born again.
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No one wants you to – we want you to live up to what that means – which is not sliding back into sin and excusing yourself because you are saved – read what St Paul said about that to the Corinthians.
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Yeah yeah, I know.
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The statues of the ‘gods’ from the Pantheon are now found in the Vatican Museum with the exception of the great statue of Jupiter, which has been modified, retitled, and seated on a throne in St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome as St. Peter. Thousands of pilgrims kiss the foot of Jupiter while thinking it is the statue of Peter.
http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/religion/pope/rc_images.html
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If you take lies from websites full of lies the you show us whose spirit is in you.
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Use your brain, if it not too addled. No one worships Jupiter – though the spirit of the father of lies will lie to you. As we follow the real Jesus, we see through the lies, so why keep lying?
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I know the Vatican has a huge collection of antiquities. probably the finest in the world. Wheres the lie?
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The lie is that Catholics worship Jupiter.
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I never once said cathols worship Jupiter. Cut and paste where I said that and I will go away and never bother you again. You rightly equate kissing a statue and bowing befor it as worship. wHEN I SAY KISS, YOU SEE THE WORD WORSHIP AND THEN YOU ACCUSE ME OF SAYING CATHOLS WORSHIP Jupiter. mE, PERSONALLY, I DONT BELIEVE YOU ALL WORSHIP STATUES. sO IN TURN I DONT ACCUSE YOU OF THAT. iTS YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE THAT MAKES YOU SEE THE WORD WORSHIP.
cap locks. I cant see the screen when im typing
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We know what you mean, so do you, so why keep lying.
If you are not accusing us if worshipping Jupiter, why mention it? You appear to lie about lying – your spirit is the father of lies, so no one is surprised.
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One day you will say….You know, that dumb ol Bosco was rite. The CC does promote idolatry with all its economy of images and it was wrong of them to stand by and watch the faithful bowing befor them.
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No, the father of lies has no influence against the Holy Spirit Bosco. When you receive the real Spirit of Truth, you will repent of your many lies and your blasphemy; may that day come before you find yourself in the lake of fire.
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Following the conquest of Mesopotamia by the Persians, the Babylonian priesthood fled to Pergamum in Asia Minor. Here they erected the Acropolis temples of Pergamum in honor of the Greek Pantheon, but continued to worship the Babylonian myster god under the name Saturnus.
The Babylonian mysteries were preserved in the temple of Zeus at Pergamum and transferred to Rome in 133 B.C. The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general that Rome was called “The New Babylon.”
133 B.C. the Babylonian solar cult was bequeathed to Rome by Attalus III. There its symbols and forms were incorporated into the cult of Caesar and later into Roman Catholicism.
ibid
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The site is called ‘mindserpent’ – what Christian would call a site that?
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More than likely its not run by someone born again. There are so few saved folks that one can count on someone not being born again.
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That the spirit in you takes you to such places ought to tell you something about it.
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Indeed you seem to me an imposter.
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its useless to go to catholic site for most info. cathols are funny. Catholic answers wont let you quote from non catholic sites . This place at least tolerates non cathols, for which I am grateful. Non cathol sites offer info that cathols don’t want to see. When im called a liar , I have to go somewhere to find info to back me up.
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Try some history department sites – Harvard and Yale have good ones.
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I’m more interested in the essentials that preach: your views on sin, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and how you cannot lose your salvation by sinning gravely. Those are essential. The rest of the mud you like to drag up can wait as far as I am concerned while we weigh the teaching of the Church to the teachings of Bosco on these essentials. Admit it Bosco, your views on these things are not Biblical and could rightly be called evil – for they lead others to sin and to lose their chance at salvation.
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When I back my views up with sites, you say the site is bogus. Once, in good brother Damiens site, I quoted from a site that had the Baltimore catechism, I think. They, the cathols all jumped all over me sayin there is no Baltimore catechism. I believed them and went back and did some research. Sure enough there was no Baltimore catechism but several site quoted it. One site did a quote and another copied it. Im open. 8 yrs of university taught me to be open to learning. You guys have not shown me that my history is bad. You’ve shown that you don’t like what it says.It conflicts with what you believe to be the church that Christ founded. History and Bosco says Nimrod founded the CC. The CC is top heavy with Babylonian symbolism. This is something no one can deny. But deny they do. The fish hat isn’t a fish hat. Because, uh, it just isn’t because everything is godly in the CC. the pine cone staff isn’t a pine cone staff, because, uh, it just cant be. That’s all.
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Wrong again. The Baltimore Catechism is fine Catechism. It was retired from use after VII which left us without a Catechism until the new one was published. The Baltimore taught via questions and answers while the new one does not use this method. I have a number of copies of the Baltimore Catechism and it was the first Catechism that I ever read.
The Catholic Conspiracy Theorist ideas of you and the sites you like to quote from are simply as crazy as the UFO Conspiracy Theorists and the folks that think that we are the product of some kind of experiment of splicing alien genes with those of our apes. Your theories and theirs are just as wacky. Once you go down that road there is no end of the boogey men you think are hiding in every nook and cranny. It is a type of paranoia and obsession. You are now obsessed with the Catholic Faith as being a strange Babylonian sect started by Nimrod and in league with the Devil and no matter how much evidence is produced to show you otherwise you would rather believe the Conspiracy Theorists than the facts. Read the Catechism from front to back and show me the how it is remotely like what you have imagined it is. If you don’t have the desire to seek the Truth then you will die in your ignorance. Catholics ought to be able to tell you what Catholicism is all about better than a bunch of folks who have a vested interest in spreading lies about it.
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Lies. Come to my site and see if they be lies.
Cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
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Yes, I did look in, and have rarely been unfortunate enough to see as many untruths in one place.
Ask yourself one question, Bosco, does that look like the product of knowing Jesus?
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You betcha
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The same type of Christian who thinks sin is no big deal because they will go to heaven anyway and the Catholics who think sin is a big deal but are going to hell because they say so, perhaps?
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Sin is sin. nothing I can do about it. Im a sinful person. I cant argue with you on that.
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You have no free will Bosco? You cannot do what Christians have done for 2000 years and fight the sins of the flesh, the world and the devil? There is something you can do about it. You can accept Christ’s invitation to confess your sins, feel contrite for them, express a desire for the grace not to commit them again and receive the Reconciliation with God that every Christian has sought while living on this earth.
Serious sin you can avoid and it is the easiest to rid yourself of. It is the smaller sins that plague us and even these we need to have forgiven for they lead to the larger ones.
This is what the Church teaches that you so despise and you teach that you may sin boldly and gravely and yet still your salvation is assured. Tell me which one sounds like it is being guided by the Holy Spirit and which is being guided by the Evil One.
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You got me there. It does sound contradictory, and bad. my spirit is willing but my flesh is weak.
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Then repent and seek help from the Church that you may reconcile with God.
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Thank you for the invite.
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Don’t thank me. Thank God that He has given you a place to restore your soul and reconcile with Him. Use your free will and seek God in Christ’s Church so that you might not lose your soul.
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Bosco, my friend, you are in a deep pit and your reality is what it is because you cannot see over the opening. The Church has given you a rope to climb out of your darkness. Take the opportunity to use your will and God’s Grace will help you make the climb.
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Ill give it some thought good brother.
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I truly hope and pray that you are not just saying that for a cheap laugh.
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I know you are sincere. I know you search for god.
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And I know you are also are sincere and that do not search for god for you think that the evil spirit that dines with you is him. Delusions are the meat of the deluded and we pray that the real Spirit of the Holy Ghost someday can remove the blinders from your eyes.
But alas, I fear that your demonic spirit has got you wanting to put limits on the True God, confine Him to a jot or a tittle of the Law and to be as much a tyrant as this evil one who possesses you. You would make of the God of Mercy and Justice another Vlad the Impaler who, because you pay him homage will allow you the excesses of sin and the rewards of loyalty.
Delusions which are this powerful must be met with a Reality that is much stronger than the force of the evil that created it. Get to the Church and remove the scales from your eyes and exchange you flinty heart for one of flesh.
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The info is reliable. Ive heard this and read this stuff befor.
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Yes, there are many sites repeating the same lies. No real historian writes such nonsense.
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You mean none of it is true? Oh yeah. I remember. You claim the pine cone staff of Bacchus that the Holy Father holds in his hot little hands is just a coincidency. And the fish hats are a happy coincidence. All the things that used to be in Babylon that are now in the CC are just coincidence, even Tammuz, the mother child deity of Nimrod is just a coincidence.
Lies, all lies I tell you.
hahahahahahaha
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Of course none of it is true, if, by ‘it’ you mean Catholics worship statues. If what you mean is that Christians have made sacred to the one true God some things pagans once used, the where’s the problem?
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Finally. Gosh youre a hard nut to crack. thank you for agreeing the CC uses pagan derived symbols. At least you get around to admitting its true, but I have to drag it out of you.
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The Bible uses plenty of things pagans used. Do you have so little faith in God that you do not know he can make anything holy through his spirit?
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There is nothing too hard for god. But since I know him, I know he doesn’t use pagan symbols for anything. Sorry to have to tell you this.he doesn’t even want us to use a cross.
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Pity he didn’t tell St Paul that.
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Bosco, you are constantly caught out telling lies. Is there some point, other than that you know nothing, that you want to make?
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You say I lie, but when I quote historical site to back me up, you say that they lie too. I cant win.
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You aren’t quoting historical sites, you are quoting sites out together by people like you, who know nothing, but once read something on the Internet.
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I know a little bit about history and the ways of ancient peoples. I can kinda see when something is false. Not so for the orient, but westen Europe, mainly the Roman empire.
People in here have admitted that Babylon was a code word for Rome. Ever wonder why? because Babylon mystery religion transferred to Rome.The first world wide religion, the religion of Babel, or nimrod, is still alive. And as you admit, the name has changed, to the Catholic Church. Universal world wide church. It even has as its mascot Tammuz, the mother of Nimrod. Gad dang man, what else does one need to show?
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Again, you simply fail to understand what you read.
Naturally early Christians, mostly Jews, held Babylon, where their ancestors had been deported, in great horror. The next great world Empire was Rome, and when the Apostles wrote, they naturally associated Rome, one Pagan Empire, with Babylon.
The idea that that continued once Rome became Christian could only be held by the uneducated.
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Does the crest of the Vatican have a dragon on it? Is that an uneducated lie too? You need to take a close look at what the CC is serving up. After all, its you salvation at stake my dear friend.
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Poor Bosco. Do you really have so little knowledge and faith that you imagine God is so weak? Get to know Jesus my friend, you will see and know how strong God is if you do, Get out of whatever cult you are in – even if it is a cult one you, yourself and you.
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The Vatican Crest has no such thing. You are probably quoting some anti-Catholic interpretations that do not hold up to facts. The dragon they usually depict comes from the Coat of Arms of Pope Gregory XIII which, if you would read the symbolism of ancient coat of arms makers, depicts a Dragon, cut in half missing its tail and hind feet: in other words, a defeated dragon that will not prevail. You can fill in whatever meaning you want but it does not change the symbolism.
I have a sneaking hunch that the pine cone stuff is also being reinterpreted from the symbol of the spikenard plant which looks a whole lot like a pine cone. In ancient symbolism this corresponded to Joseph and appears on Pope Francis’s coat of arms with a Star which from this ancient symbolism corresponds to Mary as a Shining Star.
Make up your own symbolism if you like: it is irrelevant.
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Mere fog to deflect his lack of concern for sin and the salvation of his soul, C.
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Even he admitted that lying would undermine his credibility. I guess he realises that as he has none, it doesn’t matter.
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Dionysus, the greek god holds a pine cone staff. is this a lie too? my friends, you need to take another sober look at where you trust your salvation.
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So, you really have so little faith that you do not see that God can take the things of pagans and turn them to his use? You really know nothing of God, Bosco. That spirit you met is Satan – get out from under him before he finishes you off.
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If you can concentrate long enough to read a letter I once wrote to a rabid anti-Catholic and then posted years later on my blog, it would put in one place most of what I would like to impart to you without writing endlessly on things that I covered years ago in a single place. Please do read it Bosco, it might dissuade you from throwing about claims that you cannot possible prove. You must see how wild-eyed you seem to most of us. You are to the Catholic Church as are the conspiracy theorists that see a cover up and the worst kind of deception behind every bush. In short, such people seem a bit kooky. You can read the post here: http://servusfidelis.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/a-letter-to-my-friends-uncle-who-warned-him-against-the-dangers-of-the-catholic-church/
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What are the words of the Catholic Church? They are the words of the Holy Scriptures,
The CC says the bible is a dead letter. You only wave the bible around to look holy. Inside, you hate the words of god.
I read about 10 % of your post. Im tired and worked today. I cant read the whole thing. But youre being dishonest saying the CC loves the bible. The CC hates the bible. They went and wrote their own bible. A bible that says graven images are a good thing.
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The meaning is that it is a dead letter if you do not put it into action and abide by its teachings – the rest of your screed against the Church is simple lies that don’t deserve reply. We have brought the scriptures to the world and we preserved it since it was made into a collection of Scriptures now known as the Bible.
My Bible does no such thing and you know it. Your Bible is a bad translation of the original and is missing a few books. But you are right that the writers of the Bible were Catholics. At that time we were simply called the Church for we had few competitors within Christianity. In fact, to be Christian during those years was almost a death sentence for many who adhered to the Faith. For centuries it was a death sentence for the Popes. So why would we make up stuff in order to be put to death by the unbelievers. Why would we go singing to our deaths for the entertainment of the Romans? Common sense denies such foolish statements like those that you have made.
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The catholic writer of “dead letter” went on to say that the bible cannot be understood, that’s why its dead.
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If he had you in mind, I certainly would agree with him. But as the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth it doesn’t matter how stupid or deluded people are and how they would like to take what they read out of context; you can always get the truth explained to you from the teachings of Christ’s Church.
2 Peter 3:16
“There are some things in them (the scriptures) hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.”
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Bosco, I really would give up. That is not what it says. I think you should have spend more time on literature and less on porn, as you appear not to be able to make sense of a whole paragraph of writing. You are, to all effects, illiterate.
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Porn will ruin your computer. That’s why Ed wont let the boys play on the good computer. But they do on this one. That’s why I have trouble with sign in a lot.
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Sorry to hear it.
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We confess that the Holy Scripture is imperfect, and a dead letter, until it is explained by the Supreme Pontiff, and allowed by him to be read by the laity.
[Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XXI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.]
So, only the Holy Father knows what the bible says eh? Well, I guess that it that.
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Not that old chestnut? Try Dave Armstrong here:
http://socrates58.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/what-is-meant-when-catholics-refer-to.html
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Sorry Bosco, I left this under C’s reply by mistake. Please look below for my comment and request of you.
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Don’t be sorry, I read it. I always read your posts. Im waiting to hear that you got saved.
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I received the Holy Spirit at Baptism and am now working toward my salvation and i pray that I cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit so that I might spend my eternity with the Lord and the communion of saints.
You won’t know if I got saved until I die and you die as well. I pray we all will be united in Christ as He is the end for which we were made. But saved once and incapable of losing your salvation is a concept that is unknown and rather recent among Christians.
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If one doesn’t know if one is saved…guess what?
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You miss the point, Bosco.
No one in the Bible says that being ‘saved’ is a one off event. St Paul makes it clear that it is a process. So, you are saved by baptism with water (as Jesus said), and then sealed as his when you accept him as an adult; you carry on being saved (as he said) by his body and blood, and at the last, you will be saved by your faith.
Your, entirely unbiblical version, appears to be ‘I know I am saved, and it doesn’t matter how bad I am’ period.’ Where, in Scripture, to the Apostles teach such a doctrine? That is the doctrine of a demon Bosco. He lures you to the lake of fire by making you believe you are saved and nothing can unsave you.
I hope and pray that one day you will come to your senses.
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Me too
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They need to get Baptized to start the process? Seems good advice though I’m sure you would disagree.
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